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So then, games workshop's given the emperor some new slaves to do his dirty work. Soon i'll turn them to the true gods. Anyway, are they good daemonhunters or will the warp just cut them down? Are they likely to be the new IG or Space pups? Are they still the same useless army with the good background? If you've played with them what are they like, how do they play?

I shall apologise for not being abl to give you the advibe you wanted but I belive the best way to figure out how to beat an army designed to destroy yours is to try it out yourself. I can say that good or bad , GK are going to give CD a hard time.

Flamers are just as deadly, and with so many points stacked into each model they should do horrific damage to un-meched purifiers or similiar, when they are blowing almost 400pt units off the table in one shot, per squad, you can tilt the game to your favor.

man for man grey knights are going to kick your butt but if you can capitalize on causing casualties to the more expensive units you can have a pretty even fight.

Melee with Chaos Daemons against Grey knights is playing on their ( GK ) strengths. The trick is to whittle
them down with shooting to levels you can manage. So Flamers, Soul Grinders and Horrors. Basically
anything which can shoot/puke/fart flame/puss/lightning is your friend.

Long story short;

Make sure you get the assault on them, and make sure its overkill.
Nothing wrong with throwing 20 letters at 5 terminators simply to make sure they die.

As Grundz said, flamers are really nasty, so they would be advised alot.
Also, breath on pretty much anything that can take it.
May cost 30 points, but it will earn more than its points back in the 1st use.

Crushers with all options work pretty damn well.
Play a game of bounce the wounds to keep your numbers up while flooding them with power wep attacks.
If you need an icon, throw it on these guys simply so you can get a good drop with a unit of flamers.

Seekers are nice for thier speed and do great at picking off henchmen, but S3 really does hurt when playing against knights.
The high initiative and attacks mixed with rending makes up for it though.
Can also throw an icon on them for a 2nd turn flamer line-up.

Chances are they will have land raiders, so screamers, princes, grinders, anything you can take to do alot of damage to them quickly.

Purifiers really do need to be shot to death or have a MC thrown at them.
Throw a unit at them and a fair few will die to cleansing flame.

All in all, plan moves ahead of time and dont rely on luck.
They will have low numbers but units really do hit hard.

Good: Psybolts no longer ignore your Invuln.
Bad: psybolts increase the Str of the gun so Storm and Heavy Bolters are str5 and 6 respectivly. Autocannons and Assault cannons benifit too

Really bad: all Gks with Force Weapons will be Str10 against you due to Deamonbane.
More bad: Psychic Powers. Sanctuary is bad(dangerous/difficult terrain when assaulting)

SUPERBAD+9999OMG HELP!!!!: Warp Quake forces an Automatic Deep Strike mishap on anything deep striking near the squad. it's only avaliable on the regular strike squad though.

Khorne. 2++ saves get annoying. This applies more to fleshhounds and HQ's... but you get the idea.

Flamers. Said.

Fiends have been effective in my 2 games. But they had the rage of Khorne guiding their attacks. (Skarbran)

Grey knights don't have the volume of fire that most armies do... I feel that for daemons, it may actually be a little easier to deal with them.

Don't have Volume of Fire


Stormbolters in that quantity will destroy all the basic deamon troops very quickly.

Grey Templar wrote:Don't have Volume of Fire


Stormbolters in that quantity will destroy all the basic deamon troops very quickly.

They do have quite a few stormbolters don't they.

Though... i take plaguebearers for scoring... then start taking non-troops choices...because most daemon troops choices are pretty unspectacular. daemonettes... Bloodletters... these sound more like jokes to me.

Bloodcrushers? they wound on 5's and I get a 3+ save.

feinds? Wound on 5's and I get a 5++ save (4+ if I am smart and in cover)

Flamers? There Tzeentch... low toughness isn't shocking. wounds on 4's and I get a 4++.

HQ's? All of them laugh at stormbolters.

Soulgrinders ignore them.

Daemon princes? 5's or 6's. 4++ or 3+ save. All depending on how it is equipped.

Plaguebearers laugh the shots away. Horrors...not so much, but can threaten the troops right away and might make them shoot at themselves.

So... in short... what were you assuming that daemons were taking? All of the T3 guys?

Now if they have psybolts... that is just like fighting Dark eldar... but with less guys to deal with.

I play daemons, GKs, and vanilla marines. I've come to respect the humble bolter only after facing it with my daemons. Yes they do care about the volume of fire, and the S is high enough in volume you will be facing it to matter. Some things will be hurt on 5, or even 6s, but when 8 guys light you up with 16 bolter shots supplementing the special/heavy weapons they sport, you realize that daemons are awful expensive for mostly only having a 4-5+ save and occasionally FNP.

HQs do not laugh at bolters, The heralds can easily die from them, and the greater daemons rely on high toughness, which isn't high enough to avoid high volume small arms completely. Soul grinders: sure they ignore small arms fire, too bad it is the only AV unit in the list, and will eat all the high strength shooting.

Also GKs Do Not Have as low a model count as some people are making them out to have. Yes, the idiots will buy termie lists with 3 dreadknights/stormravens with all the fixings, paladins and 2 HQs. The good lists I've been seeing have model counts about equal to what I normally see in vanilla marines or SWs. The volume of S4or5 bolters, S6 heavy bolters, psicannons, and S8 auto cannons will take people by surprise. Daemons get wrecked by exactly the kind of shooting that I see in these lists. Then there is the fact that GKs get weapons and abilities that are faction specific agianst daemon models.

Grey Templar wrote: Really bad: all Gks with Force Weapons will be Str10 against you due to Deamonbane.

wtf are you talking about Grey Templar? Have you even bothered reading the codex before you post like this?

Daemonbane means if a Daemon suffers an unsaved wound from a Nemesis Force Weapon, it takes a leadership test at the end of the assault phase. Failure = remove from play.

Grey Templar wrote:SUPERBAD+9999OMG HELP!!!!: Warp Quake forces an Automatic Deep Strike mishap on anything deep striking near the squad. it's only avaliable on the regular strike squad though.

1.) Warp Quake is 12" range on Strike Squads only.

2.) Daemons are best off DSing 18-24" away regardless... so this is actually not that big of a deal. Sure, you can't drop your Flamers in right next to them, but remember... Jump Infantry...

3.) You will rarely, if ever, find an opponent taking more than 2 Strike Squads. In fact, Purifiers and Henchmen are probably going to end up as the "competitive" troops choices.

Daemons will perform about the same against Grey Knights as they do against Space Wolves.

I think that strike squads will be taken more often than people think in competitive lists. First off, they are cheap for GKs, and heck, 5 is only 10 points more expensive than 5 vanilla marines (no hidden sarge tax). Then they can buy a 50 S6 heavy bolter razorback. Add in the one cannon you can buy, and its 160 pts for 4 force weapons, 2-4 S7 rending shots, 8 storm bolter shots, and 3 S6 HB shots. At lower points, 1750 and lower, I personally think you won't be seeing much of crowe or hechman spammer. What I think you will see is a cheap INQ or two, his non FOC elite henchies, and some basic strike squads with fire support dreads (ven, regular, or both).

Also Warp quake is a spell. SO the strike quad needs to take a test before it goes off. Also like Shealyr said most won take more then 2 and terminators and Purifiers are better. Best thing to do against GKs is stay OUT of combat and shoot them. Most GKs will go first against Deamons cause of all their grenades and anti deamon stuff. Then they will have a change to auto kill alot of your good units. They re roll hits. I mean honestly stay away from combat with them like the plague.

They have Dark Excommunication. Bloodletters? No more power weapons. Bloodcrushers? No 3+ save or power weapons. Anything with shooting powers? No more shooting for you. Basically, Dreadknights (come with it) and Librarians (optional I think), can shut down some of your best powers.

And our HQs may laugh at stormbolters, but how do they manage 12TL BS5 S8 shots a turn? Hits on 2+, re-rolls the two misses, lets say 11 hits, S8 2+ to wound, 9 saves to take, if you have Iron Hide, 3 wounds, if you don't and are Nurgle, FnP, 3 wounds, if you are tzeentch, 4.5 round down or up 4 or 5 wounds. Basically, they may be able to down one of you MCs a turn, and in CC, if the GK have halberds, they will be striking at S10 I6 against you... not good, and I think they also bypass EW if the opponent is Daemons or Psyker, I am unsure of this however.

Many of these things will be common in higher points values.

As for PBs... 18 S5 shots from a GK squad, 12 hits, 6 wounds, 3 are saved by cover, 1.5 are saved by FnP, so, 1 or 2 PBs killed. 2 S7 shots from a Psycannon, 1 hit, wounds on a 2+, 1 wound, 75% chance nothing happens.

If the PBs are in assault range: 20 Attacks, against WS3,
now, 15 or 16 PBs are remaining, 3+ for GKs to hit, 13 or 14 hits, S10, 12 wounds inflicted (roughly, I'm getting tired), 9 PBs die.

PBs hit back: 6 or 7 remaining, 6 or 7 attacks, 3 or 4 hits, 1,2, or 3 wounds inflicted, 0 or 1 GK casualties.

PBs lost combat by 8, 8 fearless wounds, 2 or 3 survive. (unsure if they get FnP or not).

So, point for point, GKs ate PBs, tommorow (actually later today, when its NOT 1AM, I will write up if PBs get charge Etc... Looking back, I think I forgot Psycotroke grenades.

I think daemons versus greyknights will fall squarely on the metagame. If its a preplanned battle, greyknights can bring so many anti daemon items to make daemons almost unwinable. However, I dont think that this will happen in a balanced greyknight list since daemons are not really that popular.

If the greyknight is bringing the 3 dreadknight grandmaster shunt punch then the daemons are in real trouble... ignoring all of your psychic gifts with dark excommunication is just wrong.

If the greyknights have coteaz or a libby, then they have sanctuary. Having to roll difficult terrain will cause most daemons to swing at init 1, so expect to have many squads blown out before swinging. Fateweaver helps out quite a bit here, as does running big squads, but it is still tough.

In the end, I probably recommend a fatecrusher; the rerollable saves and compact army should help keep the odds in your favor locally, despite hitting at init 1 in the first round. Also, fatecrusher's troops are usually horrors, whose shooting is good and with a 4++ invuln with rerolls you can send them in support of your crushers to pull some attacks off.

As a final note, collars of khorne are great if the enemy doesnt have dark excommunication.

I'm thinking that in a 'fair fight', the Daemons would win, but the Emperor's Loyal have skills to kick your arse with. I might just take up on on your previous offer.

Where are people getting that the Daemonbane rule makes them S10 against you?

All it does is make any daemon or psyker model take a lead test at the end of the phase if they're wounded. If they fail, they're gone. It's good against HQ's, but your regular line troops aren't going to care.

Also, the new GK trooper being charged is slightly worse off against demons now than in the old dex. 2 attacks at S6 (old) vs 1 with preferred enemy at S4 (new). Just don't let them get the charge on you, those psyk-out nades are evil.

Purifiers will still ruin your day though.

I guess they changed that from the original.


My codex STILL hasn't come yet

I think the biggest problems you will have is with a dreadnights. I am no expert on demons, but how would a bloodcrusher fair against it? I reckon Khorne+nurgle will be good, as if you try to outshoot them you will get plastered, stormbolters are nasty.

They have Dark Excommunication. Bloodletters? No more power weapons. Bloodcrushers? No 3+ save or power weapons. Anything with shooting powers? No more shooting for you. Basically, Dreadknights (come with it) and Librarians (optional I think), can shut down some of your best powers.

I believe that only Works in B2B and librarians wont have it unless someone is customizing a list.

As for PBs... 18 S5 shots from a GK squad, 12 hits, 6 wounds, 3 are saved by cover, 1.5 are saved by FnP, so, 1 or 2 PBs killed. 2 S7 shots from a Psycannon, 1 hit, wounds on a 2+, 1 wound, 75% chance nothing happens.

You assume it is a good idea to not be going to ground? Where are the plaguebearers going?

I love how your argument against plaguebearers is that an army that is great in close combat beat those that suck it it...

In the end, I probably recommend a fatecrusher; the rerollable saves and compact army should help keep the odds in your favor locally, despite hitting at init 1 in the first round. Also, fatecrusher's troops are usually horrors, whose shooting is good and with a 4++ invuln with rerolls you can send them in support of your crushers to pull some attacks off.

Basically nothing new.

I think the biggest problems you will have is with a dreadnights. I am no expert on demons, but how would a bloodcrusher fair against it? I reckon Khorne+nurgle will be good, as if you try to outshoot them you will get plastered, stormbolters are nasty.

The only chance against dreadknight is greater daemons (really I only see Khorne of Slaanesh doing this well without daemonic gifts), shooting them down(bolt, gaze in high volumes, breath), or soulgrinders (which I hate with a passion and probably wouldn't be the best match up)

Bloodcrushers would not survive. S5 with 2 attacks and then the opponent gets their 2+ armor save because you don't have powerweapons...

One of my bigger issues is that if the dreadknight takes a personal teleporter, it gains easy access to cover... It is no longer a MC, so it can use guardsmen to get coversaves

Dreadknight is probably still a MC, it is just an MC who is also jump infantry. Nothing that I've seen says the teleporters remove existing unit types.

GKSS are the worse possible thing for deamons to face as warpquake and deamonic assault go together like ammonia and bleach.

Scarbrand? wheres your bonus from PE now?? sit him next to fateweaver and enough all the re-rolls you like xD

and tzeentch is the way to go also take anything with the 2++ psychic bonus


a cheaper option would be the masque she can keep the grey knights away from assaulting and also since the grey knights don't have that many units it makes a bigger impact

notabot187 wrote:Dreadknight is probably still a MC, it is just an MC who is also jump infantry. Nothing that I've seen says the teleporters remove existing unit types.

The first line of the Personal Teleporter entry says: "Units with Personal Teleporters are Jump Infantry." Definitely not working as intended, but them's the RAW.

Yeah, 99% sure of it being errated to adding parentheses somewhere like this (the Dreadknight moves like Jump Infantry)


it should be treated as being like Deamon Princes with wings.

GKSS are the Hard counter for any deamon army

2 full 10 man GKSS, 1 of them has teleporters.

Both squads combat squad and spread out the full 2"

GK goes first. The 2 combat squads with telporters shunt.

Entire picture=6' by 4' board

Green line=GK deployment zone

Red line=center point of the board.

Giant circles with GKSS in the middle=12" warp quake threat area of a 5 man GKSS squad spead out over 10"

Deamons deep striking inside of it while warp quake is activated=automatic mishap



Anything that can move 12" will be between the green and red line outside of the GKSS bubble.

Anything that can't move 12" like rifleman dreads will be behind the green line and outside the GKSS bubble.

If warp quake goes off most of the deamon army will mishap. There is no location on the board that is not within 6" of a mishap, and as the deamon player starts to roll hits on the scatter die the few locations that are open will be crowded with friendly units.

Grey Templar wrote:Yeah, 99% sure of it being errated to adding parentheses somewhere like this (the Dreadknight moves like Jump Infantry)


it should be treated as being like Deamon Princes with wings.

I am thinking it was intended to be that way...

they are 75 points... and the guns aren't the scary thing about the dreadknight. It gets a major boost from the teleporter.

OTOH, it may not have been intended to be that way... but if it wasn't... they would have just worded it like everything else.

well, it's kinda silly for the Dreadknight to lose 2d6 armor penetration and ignore armor for the ability to move 12" and teliport.

Grey Templar wrote:well, it's kinda silly for the Dreadknight to lose 2d6 armor penetration and ignore armor for the ability to move 12" and teliport.

Powerweapons... and S10. Remind me what it is losing? 2D6 armor pen and relentless is all I see.

its a Monsterous Creature.


according to the rules, it actually loses its MC unit type and becomes Jump infantry.

all other MCs that can take jump packs or wings say they MOVE like jump infantry(12"), but not the Dreadknight.