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I really, REALLY want to make an all-paladin army...

I'm just wondering if its a viable army build at all? I think if I included a librarian in the army, I would have some decent anti-tank... str6 terminators with 2d6 armor penetration should be able to do some serious damage in hand to hand against vehicles, and now that psycannons are str7 rending, they are better than lascannons at taking out vehicles.

Anyone have any opinions?

havent played with them in game... but i think a core of palladins plus librarians, with additonal termies or other GK might be a good army. the thing im messing with now, is how much can that unit of palladins deal with in a turn? and can they survive an entire army shooting at them? plus, delevering them to the enemy is an issue as well. deepstrike is an idea, but otherwise termie mech units are expensive points wise and fill up a list pretty fast

It's funny because paladins are actually pretty bad for their points but are frequently pointed to when people want to talk about how OP Grey Knights are.

are paladins really THAT bad for their points though?

55 points a model is a lot, yes, but they have 2 wounds each, and come stock with some of the best kit available!

They're not bad for their points at all, once you include all their equipment and the wound allocation shenanigans they're capable of.

The only issue is that if you do include them, they will end up dominating your army list. They're not a no-brainer unit that you can just throw in *cough*purifiers*cough*, rather, they are a unit that require you to build the rest of your army around.

They really need support.


they also should hug cover as they will draw anti-tank fire which will chew through them fairly quickly.



I wouldn't reccomend a Paladin army under 2k as you really need that many points to get the proper support and equipment.


a sample list would be

HQ
Draigo 275 pts
Librarian(Quicksilver, Might of Titan, Shrouding, Sanctuary) 170 pts

Troops
6 palidins(2 psycannons, 1 Deamonhammer, 2 Halbards, 1 pair of Falchions, Brotherhood banner) 400 pts
6 palidins(2 psycannons, 1 Deamonhammer, 2 Halbards, 1 pair of Falchions) 375 pts
6 palidins(2 psycannons, 1 Deamonhammer, 2 Halbards, 1 pair of Falchions) 375 pts

Elites
Vindicare 145 pts

Heavy Support
Dreadnought(2 Tl-autocannons, Psybolts) 135 pts
Dreadnought(2 Tl-autocannons, Psybolts) 135 pts
Dreadnought(2 Tl-autocannons, Psybolts) 135 pts


2000 on the money.

Looks pretty, how much 'more expensive' can that list be made?

I think that vindicare assassins are vital for supporting a paladin army, as they allow you to pick off power fists, PK nobs and anything else that can potentially wreck your paladin's day.

Also, whats the best delivery system for a paladin army? Just hoof it? DS? Outflank with grand strategy?

well, i can fluff the Paladin squads to 10 man

Apothecary, Pair of Falchions
paladin with Psycannon, Brotherhood Banner
paladin with Psycannon, halbard
paladin with Psycannon, Deamonhammer
paladin with Psycannon, pair of Falchions
paladin with Sword
paladin with Halbard
paladin with Deamonhammer
paladin with pair of Falchions
paladin with Warding staff
Psybolts

total cost=780 pts

that makes the list, with no additional changes, about 3500.


get 6 total paladin squads and you have an Appoc army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
a mix of hoofing and Grandstrategy is probably the only practical way.


the army has no points for Landraiders.


a minimum army with 3 Landraiders and 2 Vendreds for autocannon support is as follows.

HQ
Draigo 275 pts
Librarian(Quicksilver, Might of Titan, Shrouding, Sanctuary) 170 pts

Troops
6 palidins(2 psycannons, 1 Deamonhammer, 2 Halbards, 1 pair of Falchions, Brotherhood banner) 400 pts
6 palidins(2 psycannons, 1 Deamonhammer, 2 Halbards, 1 pair of Falchions) 375 pts
6 palidins(2 psycannons, 1 Deamonhammer, 2 Halbards, 1 pair of Falchions) 375 pts

Elites
Ven Dreadnought(2 Tl-autocannons, Psybolts) 195 pts
Ven Dreadnought(2 Tl-autocannons, Psybolts) 195 pts
Vindicare 145 pts


Heavy Support
Landraider Crusader (Warp Stabilization field, Extra Armor) 285 pts
Landraider Crusader (Warp Stabilization field, Extra Armor) 285 pts
Landraider Crusader (Warp Stabilization field, Extra Armor) 285 pts


2985 pts total.


might actually fare pretty well.

Off the top of my head I would go with this.

Draigo
Librarian
3 Psyfileman Dreads.
2 units of paladins as troops will suck up 1100 minimum + all the rest of the points to deck them out.

Combat squad up to 4 scoring units in objective games, or go with 7 KP in a KP game.

When fighting a gunline reserve everything, Deepstrike both HQ inside a 10 man paladin squad, and have the other 10 paladins outflank using grand strategy.

It would be a competitive list, it would be a hard counter to other lists, but any list that has a lot of S8+ AP2 pie is a definite hard counter for a paladin army.

Grey Templar wrote:HQ
Draigo 275 pts
Librarian(Quicksilver, Might of Titan, Shrouding, Sanctuary) 170 pts

Troops
6 palidins(2 psycannons, 1 Deamonhammer, 2 Halbards, 1 pair of Falchions, Brotherhood banner) 400 pts
6 palidins(2 psycannons, 1 Deamonhammer, 2 Halbards, 1 pair of Falchions) 375 pts
6 palidins(2 psycannons, 1 Deamonhammer, 2 Halbards, 1 pair of Falchions) 375 pts

Elites
Vindicare 145 pts

Heavy Support
Dreadnought(2 Tl-autocannons, Psybolts) 135 pts
Dreadnought(2 Tl-autocannons, Psybolts) 135 pts
Dreadnought(2 Tl-autocannons, Psybolts) 135 pts

2000 on the money

I was going to make a purifer army but since I'm a bit short of money I thought I'd try a cheaper alternative 'paladins', think is I often play 1750pts so I thought I'd drop 2 paladins, 1 dread and find 5pts else where. Turns out it's far from on the money; 145pts looks like you forgot to include your assassin.

I really want to do this army as it will be nice to have a small lunchbox army case compared to the small green crate I use for my mech guard especially when I carry it up a big hill to my gaming club every thursday. True I understand there are units out there that kill paladins easily but it's just a matter of taking the threats out first and I've had plenty of practice with my mech guard. Problem is fitting it into 1750?

Honersstodnt wrote:
Anyone have any opinions?

I am going to go out on a limb here and say no they are not a viable TAC list. Eventually you will face a DE darklight spam list and lose in short order. An all pally army doesnt have the range or speed to deal with DE at range. Rifleman dreads are only going to take you so far. Even a good IG army is going to give you trouble with the mass meltagun action they like to run.

Palladins are great in combat, allocation makes them very hard to kill, the issue palladins have is they get more expensive as you add in transports, the cheapest of which is 205 points for a strom raven with no upgrades, which you need. Without transports you end up walking and getting shot by every ap 1 and 2 gun your oppenent has plus a tonne of small arms fire. In combat they are worth their points. If you cannot get them into combat quickly they simply get shot to peices and are a waste of points.

I've had some success with a cheap squad with 2 cannons. 8 cannon shots on a 10 wound unit in termie armor is only 315 points (more efficient than regular termies). You don't have to buy any other wargear that costs points: paladin with daemonhammer, paladin with sword and cannon, paladin with halberd and cannon, paladin with sword, paladin with halberd. I move them cautiously forward, behind transports moving up. Gives them cover, and is a big "no trespassing" sign for enemy assaults.

Could outflank them...

curious
I'm thinking of running 8 pali's total

running them in 2-3 man sqds.
(2 of which belong to Draigo, I'm thinking? DS & out flank with another GM)

what are ya'll thinking when it comes to single and 2 man pali units ... objective could be tricky and obviously kill points, but could they truly be effective at such a low unit size?

I've contemplated the single man paladin units myself but at the end of the day they make easy KP targets and steal FOC slots from better units.

Either you could get 3 single man units that I don't see accomplishing more than giving your opponent 3 KP, or you run 6, which might take a little longer to kill, and might actually do some damage, but will probably suffer the same fate. You either wasted all of your troop or elite slots to make that happen, and for next to nothing in return.

These guys need a couple of friends to run with them in order to be scary and effective.

What about this?

HQ- Lord Draigo - 275 Points

Troops - Paladin Squad x3 w/ 2x Psycannons and Nemesis Halberds, 1x Daemonhammer- 205 Points

Troops - Paladin Squad x3 w/ 2x Psycannons and Nemesis Halberds, 1x Daemonhammer- 205 Points

Troops - Paladin Squad x3 w/ 2x Psycannons and Nemesis Halberds, 1x Daemonhammer- 205 Points

Troops - Paladin Squad x3 w/ 2x Psycannons and Nemesis Halberds, 1x Daemonhammer- 205 Points

Heavy Support- Nemesis Dreadknight w/ Heavy Psycannon and Nemesis Greatsword- 195 Points

Heavy Support- Nemesis Dreadknight w/ Heavy Psycannon and Nemesis Greatsword- 195 Points

Total- 1485 Points

Idea would be massive death-by-psycannons. Total models on table? 15.

I would only fit in ONE squad since the points are really costly 550 for standard ones why even bother to have more than 2 squads. With 550 you could get 20 termies and some upgrades. Draigo is just too many points to waste when you can have 3 squads [which most lists have] without draigo. Yes mordrak is expensive with some ghost knights but its a cost effective distraction.

notabot187 wrote:I've had some success with a cheap squad with 2 cannons. 8 cannon shots on a 10 wound unit in termie armor is only 315 points (more efficient than regular termies). You don't have to buy any other wargear that costs points: paladin with daemonhammer, paladin with sword and cannon, paladin with halberd and cannon, paladin with sword, paladin with halberd. I move them cautiously forward, behind transports moving up. Gives them cover, and is a big "no trespassing" sign for enemy assaults.

I have not playtested yet, but I feel like this is their main strength. A shooty unit that is very resilient, and can assault if it needs to.

Alphapod wrote:What about this?

HQ- Lord Draigo - 275 Points

Troops - Paladin Squad x3 w/ 2x Psycannons and Nemesis Halberds, 1x Daemonhammer- 205 Points

Troops - Paladin Squad x3 w/ 2x Psycannons and Nemesis Halberds, 1x Daemonhammer- 205 Points

Troops - Paladin Squad x3 w/ 2x Psycannons and Nemesis Halberds, 1x Daemonhammer- 205 Points

Troops - Paladin Squad x3 w/ 2x Psycannons and Nemesis Halberds, 1x Daemonhammer- 205 Points

Heavy Support- Nemesis Dreadknight w/ Heavy Psycannon and Nemesis Greatsword- 195 Points

Heavy Support- Nemesis Dreadknight w/ Heavy Psycannon and Nemesis Greatsword- 195 Points

Total- 1485 Points

Idea would be massive death-by-psycannons. Total models on table? 15.

Well, for one thing, it would be illegal, since you can only take psycannons if you have 5+ models in a squad.

You have to have at least 5 Paladins in a unit to take psycannons.

@ Alphapod:

I did the same thing '''

would have been pretty awesome if we could though!

Khorne Flakes wrote:I would only fit in ONE squad since the points are really costly 550 for standard ones why even bother to have more than 2 squads. With 550 you could get 20 termies and some upgrades. Draigo is just too many points to waste when you can have 3 squads [which most lists have] without draigo. Yes mordrak is expensive with some ghost knights but its a cost effective distraction.

Drago's useful for more than just making Paladins troops (which is still pretty awesome. Outflanking deathstars that count as troops? feth yeah!). He can take lascannons to the face like a champ! And that's really important for a unit of Paladins.

I'm thinking of doing a Paladin army (2000 points) with one deathstar of Paladins with Drago and a Librarian deploying normally, a second unit of Paladins outflanking. Essentially...

HQ:
Draigo - 275
Librarian (Stave, Quicksilver, Might of Titan, Sanctuary, The Shrouding, Warp Rift) - 210

Elites:
Vindicare Assassin - 145

Troops:
7*Paladins (Banner, Falchions+psycannon, MC Falchions, Falchions, Stave, MC Hammer, Sword+Psycannon, Psybolt Ammunition) - 515

7*Paladins (Banner, MC Halberd, Halberd, MC Falchions, Hammer+Psycannon, Falchions, Stave+Psycannon, Psybolt Ammunition) - 510

Fast Attack:
10*Interceptors (Justicar with MC Hammer, Incinerator*2, Halberd*4, Hammer*1) - 345

Total: 2000

Basic idea is to use Grand Strategy to give Scouts to the second Paladin Squad and the Interceptors (who are then Combat Squaded). Draigo and Librarian join the first Paladin Squad. Interceptors try for a first-turn charge against enemy tanks with the hammers, Vindicare does his thing. Draigo psychic-communions in the outflanking second Paladin Squad while his squad marches forward, gaurded by the Shrouding. Draigo eats any lascannons fire aimed in his general direction like a baus. Hilarity ensues as deathstars bear in from all sides.

I like it!

Fairly inexpensive too!

Still working on it but what would you suggest here:

HQ:
Draigo - 275

Mordrack (+ 4 GK) - 360

Troops:

4* paladins (hali's ?) - 220

4* paladins (hali's ?) - 220

FA:

10* Interceptors (2 DH, 8 Hali's) - 325

10* Interceptors (2 DH, 8 Hali's) - 325

Heavy:

Dread Knight (Psy Can, Hvy Inc, Personal Tele) - 275



The general Idea:

Hit the tanks and attempt to engage "serious" ranged threats with the Interceptors. Soak up rounds and in general kill stuff with the DK.

Mordak is really there to get the CC rolling turn 2 since the combat squaded interceptors will start dropping by now, also to guarantee 2 sqds strategy and his phycic communion as well. And hes pretty nasty too.

the paladins: drop in and turn 3 clean up ?.

Draigo will more than likely join the other paladins and kill stuff.

This is obviously a WIP but I like the security nets each turn since "getting " there is kinda tough without dropping fun stuff and or effective troops. idk

I also have put very little into figuring out weapon load outs on the paladins. i have read some things but for some reason I am just affraid not to take that ini 6.

I would love to put flamers on the Interceptors but I'm already up to 325 per unit

Another list would be to drop a Paladin or something and the DK add a Ghost Kight and another interceptor sqd (minus this plus that kinda thing)

maybe I should just post it in the list help area

Fafnir wrote:Well, for one thing, it would be illegal, since you can only take psycannons if you have 5+ models in a squad.

Whoops. There goes that idea out the window.

yeah, they would be alot better if everyone could take a psycannon.

that way at low point games you could have a 75 point Psycannon walking around the field with 2 wounds.

And that would be kind of broken.

I don't mind my Grey Knights being powerful, but I do mind them being stupid.

Grey Templar wrote:yeah, they would be alot better if everyone could take a psycannon.

that way at low point games you could have a 75 point Psycannon walking around the field with 2 wounds.

You can take an inq with termie armor, daemon hammer, and cannon for 80... Sure T3, and a S6 hammer, but its BS is still 4, and it has 3 wounds instead of 2. Its also feasable to give him a crusader or two to take those high strength/low AP hits on.

But at that point, you're probably better off just taking a full shooty retinue.