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Hey folks!

I've been experimenting with Grey Knights on Vassal. I've played against Mech IG, Mech BA, drop pod BA, two Dark Eldar opponents, and a Tyranid player. In each game except for my last, I've lost the roll to go first. Out of those 6 games, I seized once, against the Mech IG opponent. Five out of six opponents have conceded during turn 1 due to the sheer amount of firepower that I drop on the table - with one of them (The Drop Pod BA player) conceding on his own first turn. His choices were to drop out of 12" of Coteaz and not be in melta range with his furiosos and tactical squads, or to drop into range and hope I rolled poorly. On his first turn drop, he lost three drop pods, two dreadnoughts, and his honor guard to Coteaz' unit.

My 2k army:
Coteaz
Librarian with Shrouding, two servo-skulls + Other stuff
5 henchmen warbands in chimeras, 2x jokero apiece with 7 psykers in a chimera with heavy bolter and multi-laser
Vindicare Assassin
Venerable Psyifleman
3x Regular Psyfilemen

For this game, which I nabbed a picture of, my opponent was running wych cult DE. He made the mistake of not reserving. His army was basically my wych cult.

We rolled spearhead, capture and control.

I won the roll to go first, and deployed with Coteaz nearest his board edge in case he did reserve and tried moving in close. Two servo skulls went just outside his deployment area to reduce my scatters to 1D6.

He didn't win the seize.

I had one unit with +12" range. In the first turn I killed two ravagers, three venoms, 4/9 of the trueborn inside those venoms, 4/6 reaver jetbikes, 3 raiders, half of his beast unit, and a few wyches - leaving him with two raiders left (one being immobilized) and nothing else to hit me on turn one with - prompting the concession.



I've found that I typically pass my LD8 psychic check, especially on a turn 1 alpha-strike before any psychic hoods can move into range.

The army is truly ludicrous, and Coteaz is pure cheese.

Gah! I couldn't find the module for WH40K on Vassal. Any clues as to where is can be found would be greatly appreciated (even cryptic ones if we aren't allowed to point to it's whereabouts on Dakka).

ColdSadHungry wrote:Gah! I couldn't find the module for WH40K on Vassal. Any clues as to where is can be found would be greatly appreciated (even cryptic ones if we aren't allowed to point to it's whereabouts on Dakka).

Vassal40k.info; there's 1,000,001 notes about it on Dakka. =p

Heh, ty. I'm downloading something now. Hope it's the module and not a virus - I barely check that kind of thing these days (probably why my PC wheezes along too XD)

I use a more friendly list but I have had the same results as you have.

Inquisitor Coteaz

Vindicare Assassin

Troops:

Squad 1
3 Crusaders
3 Servitors with Plasma Canons
1 Jakaero
Chimera
195 points

Squad 2
2 Crusaders
4 Death Cult Assassinans
1 Razorback w/ Twin Linked Assault Cannon and Psybolt Ammo
175 points

Squad 3
4 Grey Knight Terminators, 3 with Halberds, 1 with Psycannon, Psybolt Ammo
1 Grey Knight Terminator Justicar
245 points

Squad 4
4 Grey Knight Terminators, 3 with Halberds, 1 with Psycannon,
1 Grey Knight Terminator Justicar.

Fast Attack
Stormraven, Twin Linked Multi Melta
205 Points

Stormraven, Twin Linked Multi Melta
205 Points



I have no where near the shooting you do but the Stormravens combined with the Serveritor squad and terminators firing first turn tends to demoralize my opponents. I had considered using the psykers and I love your idea of combining them with the Jokero. That give you a chance have the Psykers have a rending template, correct?

You heard it here first, people. Dash actually calling something cheese.

I foresee Eldar, with their board-wide Runes, making a comeback.

This is specifically the reason why I've been avoiding Coteaz. RoW would cripple this army pretty severely, but with the Jokearo/chimeras, it would still probably hold strong.

I CAN NOT believe that guy didn't reserve all those raiders.

RoW? That is a metric ton of firepower.

i have to agree, not reserving everything in this case is most stupid indeed.
sure it still is hard as hell, if not impossible to win against this list with dark eldar, but at least you got a fighting chance like that.
on a side note, this reminds me of the good old DE vs Mech IG dilemma.

GK...really Dash? What's next...SW?

Hey I have a few questions/comments


1) Did you play that the Jokaero Upgrades affected the Psyker's shooting attack? I am not sure if this works or not.

2) Why only 7 Psykers? That only gives you a S9 AP1 blast. Why not pay the extra 10 points for a S10 AP1 blast?

3) How were you playing the servo skulls? Could you place them within 6" of an enemy and not have them die until they moved on their first turn?

4) I would love to see a battle report against an eldar player. I think that the Vindicare will be a great asset to take out the Farseer and the Runes of Warding quickly.


I think that there is potential in a Psyker spam army. I like the addition of the Jokaero to the psyker units as they can now get an INV save to protect a little against Perils at least.

svendrex wrote:
4) I would love to see a battle report against an eldar player. I think that the Vindicare will be a great asset to take out the Farseer and the Runes of Warding quickly.

I think it would be tough to snipe a farseer, imo. Personally, I run Eldrad with a unit with another IC, sometimes a Phoenix Lord, sometimes Yriel. All in a Wave Serpent. True, the army above has a lot of shots, but darting a Fortuned Wave Serpent here and there can be tough to take out, even with 16 Twin-linked Str. 8 Shots.

16 Twin linked shots should hit 14 times. 4's to glance, 5's to pen. 7 should get through, and out of those 7, 4.62 should pen. So, then SMF saves 1.19 of the glances and 2.31 of the pens. Then Fortune saves another .595 of the glances and 1.155 of the pens. So, if every Rifleman shot everything it had at that single Wave Serpent, they should glance 0.595 times and pen 1.155 times. Not too terrible.

The Vindicare isn't much of a worry because his Turbo-Penetrator and Rending count for squat against Wave Serpents and the Heavy Bolters and Multi-lasers will be even less effective than the Riflemen. The only true worry, I suppose, would be the Jokaero wielding Lascannons (they can choose lascannons can't they?).

I don't know, we'll have to see for sure. I am going to be brushing up some of my Eldar lists, though, to start bracing for the influx of FotM gamers.

Dashofpepper wrote:

For this game, which I nabbed a picture of, my opponent was running wych cult DE. He made the mistake of not reserving. His army was basically my wych cult.

A mistake is forgetting to cast Null Zone before the shooting phase. Not reserving against 24 Twin Linked Str. 8 shots when you're playing DE and going 2nd----is conceding .

Alright...answers.

@Veritechc: Glad you found Vassal.

@Luke_Prowler: *laughing* It is completely ridiculous. And cheese. I won't ever put it on the table; I *much* prefer underdog armies. Necrons, old DE, Orks...when the new Necron dex comes out, I'll have to find the new worst codex to champion.

@puma713: Eldar and Board Wide Runes...only affect 5 weapons in the army. There are still 10 Lascannons, 4 twin-linked sets of +1STR Autocannons, and 5 Chimeras worth of Multi-lasers and Heavy Bolters - not to mention the Vindicare; whose role in a game like that would be to make sure that the Farseer and the runes get sniped out of their unit. 16 STR8 shots (rerolling) and 10 Lascannons ought to bring that transport down.

@daedalus: Not cripple, just reduce the alpha-strike. With DE as my main army...I was indeed surprised to see him deploy it all. He apparently didn't know about the psykers.

@sieek: Indeed; Mech IG are a tough matchup for DE - this kind of army is the same; potentially worse because of the psychic powers on the dreadnoughts.

@wyomingfox: Did you know that I actually have about 3,500 points worth of Space Wolves? 15 Missile Launcher Longfangs, 7 razorbacks, 6 rhinos, Njall, Canis, a bunch of grey hunters...I just haven't put any of it together.

@svendrex: I have been playing that Jokero powers affect the psykers; their powers extend to the unit. With two Jokero, I get +1 to each result; half the results are useless. I don't value a 5+ invul, rending is pointless...I can see Jokero going very well with other units though that could *use* rending. Only 7 psykers because I had originally misread the rule and created a list around it. During my first game someone pointed it out to me, but I haven't gotten around to fixing to make it STR10. Servo Skulls....well, they can't be placed in the enemy deployment zone, and I've actually never tried deploying one within 6" of an enemy. I generally deploy them based on where I think the enemy is going to move, to block their scout moves, or somewhere midfield at a range that won't let them get within 6" on the first turn. I also use them to protect flanks from infiltrators. If I'm going first, I'll generally stick it 6" from the enemy deployment zone so that I've got a 6" bubble going into the enemy deployment zone for my blasts. I care more about them for their ability to influence scouting and infiltrating than for their shooting impact though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AgeOfEgos wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:

For this game, which I nabbed a picture of, my opponent was running wych cult DE. He made the mistake of not reserving. His army was basically my wych cult.

A mistake is forgetting to cast Null Zone before the shooting phase. Not reserving against 24 Twin Linked Str. 8 shots when you're playing DE and going 2nd----is conceding .

My librarian doesn't have Null Zone, and DE have no Psykers....?

Dashofpepper wrote:
@puma713: Eldar and Board Wide Runes...only affect 5 weapons in the army. There are still 10 Lascannons, 4 twin-linked sets of +1STR Autocannons, and 5 Chimeras worth of Multi-lasers and Heavy Bolters - not to mention the Vindicare; whose role in a game like that would be to make sure that the Farseer and the runes get sniped out of their unit. 16 STR8 shots (rerolling) and 10 Lascannons ought to bring that transport down.

See my post above. The lascannons would be my only true worry. And I wasn't thinking about just the weapons. It can shut down Shrouding, protecting your Dreadnoughts as well. It can also shut down Fortitude.

If the Eldar go first, taking out some of the dreadnoughts or stunning/shaking them will seriously cut down on the incoming firepower. Same thing for shaking/stunning the chimeras. Just shake/stun a chimera and you've stopped 2 lascannons. If the Eldar player can keep the army stunned/shaken (scatter lasers), then I think the GK list will have trouble recovering (can Chimeras even get Fortitude?).

And that's if the Eldar player only take 1 Farseer.

3500 pts of wolves...nope, that fact escaped me -- especially given your previous "Whisky" challenge.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

AgeOfEgos wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:

For this game, which I nabbed a picture of, my opponent was running wych cult DE. He made the mistake of not reserving. His army was basically my wych cult.

A mistake is forgetting to cast Null Zone before the shooting phase. Not reserving against 24 Twin Linked Str. 8 shots when you're playing DE and going 2nd----is conceding .

My librarian doesn't have Null Zone, and DE have no Psykers....?

Hahaha, yeah I know GK can't take Null Zone and DE have no Psykers. I was stating, using a volume knob metaphor, forgetting to cast Null Zone might be considered about a 4.

Not reserving when you're going 2nd---when your army consists of DE armor---against 24 Str. 8 Twin Linked Shots---would be about a;

The rending is decent on the Jokaero Heavy Flamers if the enemy ever gets that close.


Obviously the psykers get the Armor and INV save upgrades.

The question was whether the Psyker shooting attack gets the upgrade. It is a "psykic shooting attack" where the Jokaero upgrades specify "Shooting Weapons". I do not think that Psykic Barrage gets extra range or rending (not that it really needs either of those).

I've never read the Grey Knights Codex but don't all those Psycannons and Jokaero weapons only have a 24 inch range? I dunno really, I seem to remember someone mentioning it.

Anyway, the way I play Eldar is, rather than the Seer Council, I put my Farseer in a unit of Harlequins first turn and if I have to, borrow someone elses transport. It has saved my psykers many times from getting shot up. Farseers don't want to be in close combat anyway so keep them out of close combat, then keep them safe from shooting by using the Shadowseers Veil of Tears. Works against Grey Knights shooting too!

Regular Grey knight infantry shooting maxes out at 24". Jokaero have regular lascannons (48" with a chance to get another 12")



@Dash

I just realized why you will do very well with this army. It capitalizes on the fact that you need to roll low numbers (LD 8 tests and Scatter). Finally an army that works with your natural talent for rolling below average.

Heh, brutal list. To me, it seems like most GK builds, it is a very hard counter against some lists and will get easily beaten by some others. It is weaker in close combat than IG. For example, I think Ork horde armies will just walk over this. Terminator-heavy armies will also beat it, I think.

Interesting list.

I just happen to own a bunch of chimeras, and a box full of psykers and old Inq. henchmen. Might be fun to try out some day.

I'd agree that Jokero wouldn't boost a psychic shooting attack. They boost weapons, not shooting attacks.

It just seems like a regular Mech Guard army but instead of Hydras you are using Dreds.

Just like Mech guard you will do ok if you get first turn, but if you don't you might be in trouble. For example, what would have happened in the DE game if you went second? That would have been far more interesting a read than showing that you can destroy a DE army that starts out in the open.


Also your army gets crippled by anti-psychic defenses.

Blackmoor wrote:It just seems like a regular Mech Guard army but instead of Hydras you are using Dreds.

Just like Mech guard you will do ok if you get first turn, but if you don't you might be in trouble. For example, what would have happened in the DE game if you went second? That would have been far more interesting a read than showing that you can destroy a DE army that starts out in the open.


Also your army gets crippled by anti-psychic defenses.

Yeah it's similar---but GK have two things over that;

Shrouding
Ignore Shaken/Stunned


AV 12 Dreads that ignore Shaken/Stunned and have 3+ cover saves are going to be annoying.

I have a question for you, Dash. Are PAGK or TAGK in any form viable as a reasonably competitive list? I have a habit of getting lovestruck by an army with interesting fluff and cool rules (back in ye olde days of Daemonhunters) but I like to be able to do some serious damage with them at the same time. I love the Grey Knights, have for years, but it always seems to be an uphill battle. What would you recommend? I haven't seen too much of the current 'dex, but I know the basics (stats for the psycannons, psilencers, stormbolters, etc., how the new NFW work, general stats and special rules). Mind giving us (me) a rundown on it?

The list shoots decently when the psykers don't go off. when they do go off its crazy. But honestly, if your opponents are conceeding turn 1 to this, you need to find better opponents. The list is far from unstoppable...

crazysyko666: I have no serious intent to play GK, only to crush them on the field....so I'm not the guy to ask for GK advice from. There are 1,001 threads about GK, their different units, the competitiveness of the army, etc all around Dakka (Tactics, General Discussion, Army list). In fact, I can't click through a forum page without seeing another duplicative GK thread wanting to discuss what three others have already beaten into the ground because the OP was too lazy to READ before posting. This was just to goof off.

@Yermom: No...YERMOM! NO YERMOM! It isn't unstoppable, and does sit on a few lynchpin rolls in terms of how difficult the game is going to be. But then again...a lot of armies these days do.

@AgeofEgos: Ah...nothing for me to answer.

@Blackmoor: If I had gone second, I think I would have reserved. =p I've gone second (as I said at the top) in almost every game. Including against DE. Its tempting to deploy though with a rerollable seize.

@Polonius: Go get em'.

@Backfire: Ork horde armies....*laughing* You mean that you don't think five insta-kill AP1 large blast templates and 10 potentially rending heavy flamers....along with the ridiculous volume of fire present everywhere else is enough to take care of hordes? Speaking of terminators, did I mention multiple AP1 large blast templates? Five of them to be precise. Every turn. The STR9-10 kind.

@Roadkill Zombie: There's not a single psycannon in the army, but yes - they have a 24" range. Also, putting Harlequins into a transport doesn't make the transport unable to be shot at.

In that case, know anyone with a good reputation who plays? I often find the tactics thread to be very hit-or-miss.

Hey Dash, I been test playing the same army with Coteaz with 4 monkeys, 7 psykers each in a Chimera so a total of 5 and 3 Interpertors Squads with 7 guy is each squad. Its a cheesy list and way OP.