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2000pts. Competitive Grey Knights vs Reecius' Bjorn Space Wolves  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Which is the better shooting army?
Grey Knight dreads and Fortitude will win the day.
Draw.
Long fangs are just too hard for the knights to take out. Space Wolves FTW!

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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

Today I played against another great player and dakka personality - Reecius. I really wanted to test out my competitive Crowe-Purifier-Dread list against arguably one of the best armies today - shooty-MSU Space Wolves. Moreover, I wanted to play against such a list run by a very good general. Luckily, both can be found in just my backyard, so to speak. Both Reece and I live in the Bay Area, Northern California, so I just asked him for a game.

Now a little background on my opponent. Reecius is a top calibre tournament player. He normally finishes near the top and is currently ranked #5 overall in the entire USA according to RankingsHQ.com. He recently played at Adepticon and got 5th place overall out of 245 players (Reecius' Adepticon batrep found here). Most recently, he played at the Alamo, CA 1850 tournament and tied for 1st with his tyranids. Unfortunately, he lost the tiebreaker and ended up 2nd (battle report found here). Ironically, in my last tournament, I also ended up tied for 1st place using my bugs as well. However, I also lost the tiebreaker and ended up 2nd (my battle report found here). Of course that was all before the new grey knights were even leaked onto the internet, but guess who I had to beat to get the draw for 1st? Yup, you guessed it....Reecius!

Besides the tournament, I've played against Reecius 2 other times. He beat me once in a 2v2 where I used my Ravenguards (battle report here. BTW, Reece's partner in that game was the #1 player in the whole USA - Frankie). The other time it was his Bjorn wolves against my Ravenguards. In that game my 600pt+ vanguard squad dropped, mishapped and died just like that. I was very lucky to get a draw in a game where I was getting beaten pretty badly.

This game, I wanted to see how my knights can do against one of the very best tournament army around. Reecius, on the other hand, was curious to see how good the upstart Grey Knights were in the hands of an experienced general.


-------------------------------------------------------------------


My list:

Grey Knights 2K

Castellan Crowe

Venerable Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Venerable Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Vindicare

5x Purifier Squads - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Warding Stave, Rhino
5x Purifier Squads - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Warding Stave, Rhino
5x Purifier Squads - 2x Psycannons, 1x Halberd, 1x MC-Hammer, Rhino
5x Grey Knight Strike Squads - 1x Psycannon, Rhino
5x Grey Knight Strike Squads - 1x Psycannon, Rhino

Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo



Space Wolves 2K

Reecius, please feel free to correct me if I've made a mistake and I will edit your list.


Bjorn Fellhand
Rune Priest - Jaws of the World Wolf, Stormcaller

Dreadnought - Heavy Flamer, TL-Lascannon
Dreadnought - Heavy Flamer, TL-Lascannon

5x Grey Hunters - 1x Flamer
5x Grey Hunters - 1x Flamer
5x Grey Hunters - 1x Flamer, Razorback w/TL-Assault Cannon
5x Grey Hunters - 1x Meltagun, Razorback w/TL-Assault Cannon

Land Speeder Typhoon
Land Speeder Typhoon
Land Speeder Typhoon

6x Long Fangs - 5x Missile Launchers, Razorback w/TL-Heavy Bolter
6x Long Fangs - 5x Missile Launchers, Razorback w/TL-Lascannon
6x Long Fangs - 5x Missile Launchers, Razorback w/TL-Lascannon


-------------------------------------------------------------------


PRE-GAME ANALYSIS:

Grey Knights:
This is going to be a shootfest. It reminds me of the old Westerns where we have a face-off between 2 of the best gunmen. For those looking for a good close-up battle, you probably won't see it here. But for those who want to see unrelenting shooting, this is the place to be.

I'm going to do this Pre-game Analysis a little differently. Instead of my normal pre-games, I'm going to start off with our advantages/disadvantages:


Shooting - draw. Space Wolves may have better ranged shooting, but once my knights getting into mid-range, I've got some pretty nasty mid-range firepower. And while long fangs are going to be hard to take out, he's going to find out first-hand how nasty Fortitude could be.

Assault - Grey Knights. No way his grey hunters are beating my purifiers in combat. I do need to watch out for his dreads though, but as soon as they get close, I'm going to shoot them down with psycannons and possibly my dreads as well. Worst-case scenario, my Nemesis warding staves should keep my purifiers alive and his dreads locked in combat.

Mobility - Space Wolves. He's got 3 land speeders. 'Nuff said.

Experience - Grey Knights. My opponent has only faced the new Grey Knights once (in his last tournament). However, sorry to say, but that list cannot compare to mine. I, on the other hand, am an experienced SW player as well and know their strengths and weaknesses all too well.

Seize Ground - Grey Knights. I've got more troops. I've got 5 dreads to protect my troops. What? You say Bjorn is another objective for the wolves? Then I say he lives until my guys can get there to claim his dead body.

Capture and Control - Space Wolves. He has a slight advantage here thanks to his speeders. Don't think that I will kill Bjorn in his deployment zone to give him another objective. Bjorn only dies if he comes towards me.

Annihilation - Draw. GK's 17 KP's to SW 19 KP's. Then again, my knights can only target 11 different targets whereas the wolves can target 17.

Pitched Battle - Draw.

Capture and Control
- Draw. His placement of his long fangs are limited and they may not have good LOS. However, my dreadnoughts can always move to get into better shooting positions. On the other hand, I need to travel further to reach his objective(s) while his speeders, if they should live, can more readily reach mine.

Dawn of War - Draw. Dreadnoughts are mobile firepower. Long fangs may lose 1 or 2 turns of shooting just to get into position....which is why my opponent is savvy enough to give them dedicated transports for such an occasion. This way, there is no wasted motion on their part.


Space Wolves:
Although Reecius is a very experienced player, his only practical experience with the Grey Knights is playing against them for just 1 game. And for most people who have just started to play against the knights, they're in for a rude awakening when they experience Fortitude for the very first time. I expect this to be a learning experience for him. Then again, I felt the same way the last time my nids went up against his nids in tournament play, and I almost lost because I under-estimated him (and misread the mission objectives).

He needs to focus-fire to kill my dreads. Stunning/shaking them is not enough (unless his rune priest gets in range to hood them). But the moment his priest advances, he is my target numero uno. I'll take out his transport and then snipe his priest with my vindicare. Do not get into assault with my knights or Crowe with anything other than his dreads. Also, do not let my guys get close to his. If I was him, I would almost be tempted to take out my transports over my dreads. Then again, it's hard to ignore my psyfleman dreads when they're killing his vehicles.

Lastly, he'll probably want to go first. Whoever gets to shoot first will probably have the advantage.


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Mission: Capture and Control

Deployment: Dawn of War

Initiative: Space Wolves


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Deployment:



Pictures of the map.


Space Wolf objective behind hist left ruins.


My objective is behind terrain almost directly across from his objective. If I had placed my objective diagonally opposite of his, I don't think I would ever reach his objective so I made it the shortest distance (or almost) between our 2 objectives. I'm looking for a fight! Go TURTLE power!


Space Wolf deployment. Asscan razorbacks are empty. He reserves 3 units of grey hunters. The rest will come in on his Turn 1.

I deploy nothing. All my units will come in on my Turn 1.

I don't bother to try to steal the initiative.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Space Wolves 1

Razorback moves up 12" with long fangs. Long fangs then disembark and run up the ruins. That's actually a very good tactic that I may have to "borrow" from Reece for my own SW army. Otherwise, in DoW deployment, I usually lose 2 turns of shooting if terrain is not favorable to my long fangs.


The rest of his army moves in and long fangs disembark from their razorbacks and run. He's got 2 land speeders hiding behind the middle terrain. All long fangs are now in area terrain and good shooting positions. That's why Reece gives them (his long fangs) dedicated transports - to offset the weakness that is DoW for the Space Wolves.

I forgot to take this picture, but his 2 asscan razors and Bjorn both advance towards me and then Bjorn runs. Hmmm....Christmas is coming early for me this year.


Grey Knights 1

I split my forces into 2 halves. 2 purifiers, 1 vendread and 1 regular dread comes in to my right. Purifiers disembark and lead rhino pops smoke. I didn't finish converting my regular dreads in time for this game yet.


The majority of my army comes in near the center and go after Bjorn and his razorback. 1 purifier unit (the one with the Nemesis daemonhammer) walks in. Strike squad disembarks from the left rhino and runs up the ruins. Middle rhino is empty. Right rhino is my 2nd strike squad. 2 lead rhinos pop smoke.


To my right, I focus-fire my entire half onto his razorback. After 8 twin-linked S8 shots and 8 psycannon shots, I only manage to take off his assault cannon. Not too good.


My left-half shooting was just as bad. I focus everything onto Bjorn and after 12 twin-linked S8 shots and 8 psycannon shots, I only manage to immobilise him (at first, I blew him up but then he made me re-roll). Oh well, I'll take it.

Even though Space Wolves went first, thanks to Dawn of War, I got the alpha-strike. Unfortunately for me, it wasn't very impressive.


Space Wolves 2

SW movement. 1 unit of grey hunters (with Rune Priest) come in from reserves and I believe they embark onto the lazorback.


The rest of his vehicles shift around a bit.


Asscan razorback moves 6" around the ruins.


Here we have a slight rules dispute.

Bjorn targets my dreadnought. His plasma cannon doesn't hurt my dread but kills 1 purifier. His heavy flamer was also out of range of my dread. However, it did cover my rhino. I told him that if the template could not reach the intended target, then it doesn't do anything even if there is another unit in between that would get hit. He thought otherwise. Anyways, I didn't think it would be a big deal so I let him do it. His heavy flamer did manage to blow off my rhino's stormbolter.


Here he targets my right half. It takes a lot of shots, but he is able to immobilise my vendread and blow up my regular dread. No purifiers die in the explosion.


He also stuns my vendread maybe with a lascannon (I didn't exactly keep track of which shot did what).


Then he focuses the rest of his shooting on my left half. Once again, he ignores my transports and go after my dreads in cover. He manages to destroy 1 autocannon from 1 regular dread and the vendread. He also stuns the other regular dread.

At this point, he totally forgets about Fortitude.


Finally, his left razorback fires its assault cannon and kills another 2 purifiers (only the 2 psycannons remain). Good thing purifiers are fearless.

Overall, despite all the cover that I had, he did a respectable job of shooting.


Grey Knights 2

GK movement. Crowe gets into the empty rhino and they haul a$$. Dreads shift around.

I pass my psychic tests for Fortitude for both dreads and they become un-stunned.


Right purifier rhino advance.


Immobilised vendread fires at his land speeder and blows it up. Purifiers in the rhino that didn't move (not shown in the pic) fire at his weaponless razorback and wreck it.


My dread with 1-gun explodes his other razorback.

In other shooting, my 2 middle dreads blow up one of his middle land speeders.


Space Wolves 3

The rest of his troops come in from reserves. Lazorback with meltawolves inside advances. Rune Priest is actually in the vehicle, but because it won't stay on top, he just put it in front of the vehicle to represent that he is inside.


More space wolf movement.


His shooting is horrendous this turn. He would either fail to penetrate my dreads or I would make my cover saves. My purifiers make their cover against Bjorn's plasma cannon. The only missile that manages to get through here shakes my vendread (which I would promptly ignore next turn thanks to Fortitude).


Oh yeah, he also blows off an autocannon and shakes my right vendread (which I later ignore).


Grey Knights 3

I pass Fortitude for both dreads. Crowe's rhino reaches it's destination. I block his middle long fangs' LOS but because I cannot assault, Crowe stays in the rhino. My dreads continue to advance.


My rhino just drives right pass his lazorback. My other purifier rhino moves 6" and tries to obscure my vendread.


My shooting finally explodes Bjorn.


My dread also explodes his bolterback (razorback with TL-heavy bolters).

In other shooting, I stun, immobilise and take off the typhoon missile launcher from his last land speeder. Also, my vindicare (who spent the last 2 turns trying to get into an advantageous shooting position atop the area terrain) blows off the the tl-lascannon from his right dread. I also blow up his middle dread (though I wasn't sure whether that was this turn or last).


Space Wolves 4

SW movement. Space wolves advance. His Rune Priest's rhino will move forwards. His other grey hunters hiding behind the ruins will finally come out to play.


His middle lazorback advances towards the objective Bjorn. Unfortunately for Reece, his rhino busts a tread. Then the guys inside, instead of trying to fix the flat, decides to take a smoke break instead.


I believe this is the first time he targets my transports. Long fangs blow it up.


Heavy flamer from dread, flamer and bolters from a grey hunter unit and double-tap from a 2nd grey hunter unit by his objective reduces my purifiers to just 1 halberd guy....


....who quickly gets run over by his dread (in assault).

Other shooting immobilises Crowe's rhino but do little else.


Grey Knights 4

Crowe disembarks. Left strike squad rhino zips towards his left long fangs.


My dreads advance slowly.


I target his advancing rhino. Either he popped smoke last turn or cast Stormcaller (I'm not sure). Anyways, I blow away its lascannon with my dread.


I believe it was my purifier psycannons which finally blows it up. His Rune Priest takes 1W in the explosion. My vindicare then tries to snipe his Rune Priest but he makes his cover save.


My middle dreads blow away the lascannon and wrecks the middle, immobilised razorback.


Finally, Crowe charges his long fangs. Crowe's Cleansing Flame kills 1.


Crowe then rends 3 to death and they break and run off the table. He then consolidates towards the grey hunters.


Space Wolves 5

Overview of the top of 5.


Reece is way behind now. His only play left is to contest my objective for a draw. Hunters and dread advances. Dread pops smokes.


They then run.


Hunters surround Crowe.


They then rapid-fire and put 1W on Crowe.


Left long fangs fire kraks at my strike squad who are currently claiming Bjorn as an objective. I go to ground and make all my 3+ cover. His right long fangs then fire 5 frags at the same squad. All but 1 scatters and only 5 knights are hit. Once again, I make all my saves!


Grey Knights 5

Rhino moves and pops smoke. Purifiers disembark.


My 2-psycannon purifiers get into the rhino so that they are safely claiming the Bjorn objective. This way, it doesn't matter if Reece kills off the strike squad or breaks them.


Dreads shoot at his hunters and kill 2. They pass morale.


My dreads fire at his dread and immobilise it. I feel much safer now. (His dread also makes his cover save against my vindicare.) Purifiers shoot at his grey hunters and kill only 1.


Lastly, Crowe assaults his grey hunters. Again, Cleansing flame kills 1, rending kills 3 and No Retreat kills off the last hunter. Crowe consolidates towards his objective.

I currently have 2 objectives - my own and Bjorn - to his 1. If the game ends now, Grey Knights win. We roll and the game continues.


Space Wolves 6

Grey Hunters go to block off Crowe from getting to his objective.


Grey hunters advance towards my objective. I believe his right long fangs, for lack of a better target, shoots at my rhino and stuns it. His far left long fangs try to shoot at my purifiers but are a couple of inches short.


Nothing much left to do but assault. Reece doesn't expect to beat me in combat. What he did plan to do, however, was to pull me off of my objective with the assault. But I knew that and was ready for it. I purposefully spread out my guys so that even if they were to get assaulted, after pile-in moves, I would still be within claiming range of my objective.


Unfortunately for him, not only do I win combat, but I wipe out his squad. He kills only 1. I kill 3, including his Rune Priest before he could even strike. Then his 2 surviving hunters both fail their No Retreat saves (he failed Morale and I caught him).

With that, he has no more chance of getting the draw. I've got my objective here.



I've also got the Bjorn objective.


And he's got his own objective.

Grey Knights win 2-1.




Victory to the Grey Knights!!!


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Stay tuned for the Post-game Analysis.....

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2011/05/21 05:04:05



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
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7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in gb
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





where am I? *looks around* Well i'm...errr...I...I...don't know!

awwww...I was looking forward to that now :(




MAY YER BOLTER NAE FALTER!!!! 
   
Made in us
Banelord Titan Princeps of Khorne






I'd say Reece won, because his space wolves are nasty.

Bjorn > Fortitude dread.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/19 11:56:38


Veriamp wrote:I have emerged from my lurking to say one thing. When Mat taught the Necrons to feel, he taught me to love.

Whitedragon Paints! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/613745.page 
   
Made in be
Deranged Necron Destroyer






I'd say it depends, if the wolfs stay out of hth, they will just by having more flexible target priority.


You have ruled this galaxy for ten thousand years
Yet have little of account to show for your efforts
Order. Unity. Obedience.
We taught the galaxy these things

And we shall do so again.

4500 pts


 
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh





Syracuse, NY

Looking forward to this one a ton Jy2, also that board is very nice. The detail with which you outline the initial strategic situation is great too.

Daemons Blog - The Mandulian Chapel 
   
Made in us
Mauleed





Go Grey Knights!
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




St. Louis, Missouri

Oh man, I think the GK will have trouble with those Long Fangs and Typhoons...can't wait to see this outcome!

Maybe jy2's luck will change this time...we'll just have to wait and see

And if you're drinkin' well, you know that you're my friend and I say "I think I'll have myself a beer"
DS:80+SG-M-B--IPw40k09-D++A+/mWD-R++T(Ot)DM+
 
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Sarasota, FL

I'm gonna say the Wolves are going to win this one. You need Shrouding in your list somehow to keep that low model count alive against 20+ missle shots a turn, it would also help your dreads. Between double range and lots of S8 I think the GK might get hurt. Very interested to read the rest gogogogogogo!

7K Points of Black Legion and Daemons
5K Points of Grey Knights and Red Hunters  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Bay Area

It's good to see a match up between two great MSU shooty armies.

Both sides have the same number of transports. If jy2 kills off the Land Speeders, then there's a good chance the game will end in a draw. Other then that, it will be tough for either side to contest each others objective assuming they are positioned farthest away from each other (corner to corner diagonal 86.5" apart).

I look forward to reading the results.

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






San Jose, CA

You've been playing a LOT of Capture & Control of late, haven't you?

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






Las Vegas, NV

I know how this one ends, but I won't spoil it. All I will say is that Fortitude is an amazing ability.

   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Reecius wrote:I know how this one ends, but I won't spoil it. All I will say is that Fortitude is an amazing ability.

so you lost.
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





San Diego, California

Reece! It's good to see you in a battlereport again!
I have the terrible feeling the Longfangs whiffed terribly because of fortitude.

2000 pts 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






Las Vegas, NV

Hey Gavo! Yeah, work calmed down a bit so I am playing more.

Did I win or lose? Just have to wait and see!

   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





I am hoping Space Wolves won since I play wolves. Fortitude is really good though and if you don't roll well for damage it just wins games.

Reecius
Interesting list and nice to see Bjorn shooty wolves played. You don't see that all that often. Bjorn actually is quite good with his reroll to go first for a shooty army and is pretty hard to kill so generally gets ignored unless in melta or assault range.

My only concern with this list is lack of melta. Your in for a hard time if you hit the Mephiston 2 Land raider Redeemer full of termies with Assault squads in a Standard land raider and rhinos.

Is the lack of melta an issue?

Also is 4 scoring units enough? I prefer to have 5 at 2000 if possible and buy dedicated transports for all of them.

jy2
Your grey knight list looks very similar to what we been testing. Only we run our venerables with multi melta and 1 tl auto cannon, there is another unit of purifiers instead of the vindicare and some of the units are geared slightly differently.

How does vindicare actually perform in games.? On paper it just seems vindicare dies quickly.

Do the warding staves make a big difference. Seems good to put powerfist wounds here but it seems expensive for a unit that might not even see combat.
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






Las Vegas, NV

@Jy2
Oh, you have my 2000 point list, I only have one dread and Bjorn at 1850.

@Avariel
This is my standard tournament list that I have had a lot of success with over the past few years. I started with more meltas, but I have gone down to just one as in the current meta, you just don't see much over AV12. Typically it's loads of 12 and down, which MLs were built to destroy. I almost never see Land Raiders or Leman Russes in tournaments anymore, so I don't bring weapons to counter them.

4 scoring units has been plenty for me, I sometimes drop down to two or three and still do fine.

Bjorn for me has been great. Rarely does he under-perform.

   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Lincolnshire, UK

Both are solid lists, however I've had to go for Reece due to his skill and experience with his list, whereas you're still getting to know yours I'd say.

Gonna be a great game though, I can't wait to see what happens!

Lovely board too, you've been quick to get all your Dreads ready as well!

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- Roboute Guilliman

"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now."
- Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
 
   
Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut





Gothenburg

Think the space pups are going to win since the GKs dont exactly use what I consider a competitive build while the SW do.

Nevertheless it will be a very exciting read that I look forward to.

Salamanders W-78 D-55 L-22
Pure Grey Knights W-18 D-10 L-5
Orks W-9 D-6 L-14
 
   
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Death to the grey knights slaughter them puppies and where JY2 may know spacewolves reecius is a super strong player

Your end has come. The sight of us will be your last. We are Wrath. We are Vengeance. We are the Rainbow Warrioirs."

*Silence*

-Snigger-

fatelf 
   
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Lord of the Fleet





Texas

Gonna have to go with the majority. The Space Wolves are using a tried and tested list by an excellent player, looks like they'll have an edge

 
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick




USA

I dont like the TL hvy bolter and asslt cannons on the razorbacks. Better be all las/plas or TL las, since the goal is to induce more pens rather than glances against fortitude.
   
Made in ca
Dour Wolf Priest with Iron Wolf Amulet






Canada

canthatenuff wrote:
Reecius wrote:I know how this one ends, but I won't spoil it. All I will say is that Fortitude is an amazing ability.

so you lost.


Not necessarily, if he wasn't trying to give away the ending I'd think he wouldn't be so "obvious". In fact, this makes me think that he won, but it was hard-fought... we'll see though.

Reecius wrote:@Avariel
This is my standard tournament list that I have had a lot of success with over the past few years. I started with more meltas, but I have gone down to just one as in the current meta, you just don't see much over AV12. Typically it's loads of 12 and down, which MLs were built to destroy. I almost never see Land Raiders or Leman Russes in tournaments anymore, so I don't bring weapons to counter them.


Also, any AV14 that you do run into you can assault with your dreads or shoot from behind with your Land Speeders.

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA


Sorry, but I've been out all day today and didn't have the chance to work on the batrep. I will have time tomorrow though.


BladeWalker wrote:I'm gonna say the Wolves are going to win this one. You need Shrouding in your list somehow to keep that low model count alive against 20+ missle shots a turn, it would also help your dreads. Between double range and lots of S8 I think the GK might get hurt. Very interested to read the rest gogogogogogo!

Unfortunately a librarian just doesn't go well with my Purifier-Crowe list for the simple reason that he can't ride in a rhino. I would use him in my Coteaz-henchmen list though as he could then ride in the chimeras.


Janthkin wrote:You've been playing a LOT of Capture & Control of late, haven't you?

Yeah, probably about 2/3 of all my games recently have been C&C.


Avariel wrote:
jy2
Your grey knight list looks very similar to what we been testing. Only we run our venerables with multi melta and 1 tl auto cannon, there is another unit of purifiers instead of the vindicare and some of the units are geared slightly differently.

How does vindicare actually perform in games.? On paper it just seems vindicare dies quickly.

Do the warding staves make a big difference. Seems good to put powerfist wounds here but it seems expensive for a unit that might not even see combat.

I guess Reecius can speak for his own army.

As for my army, like Reecius said, you don't really encounter a whole lot of land raiders nowadays. But just in case I do (and other AV14 vehicles), then I've got the vindicare. While he is somewhat fragile, he does fill a niche in a pure grey knights list much as a tyrannofex fills a niche in a tyranid army. And even in armies without heavy armor, he is still useful as a psychological unit. Opponents tend to put a crap-ton of firepower into him to kill him. I don't mind that because it means my 4-5 dreads can keep on firing unmolested and that my transports don't get blown up.

Personally, I'm a big fan of the warding stave. Too many armies have units that will easily kill min-sized MEQ units. The warding staves make my purifiers more than just a suicidal/sacrificial unit. It actually makes them a tarpit unit with some staying power (at least in assault). Powerfists are rarely useful in 5-man squads. They die just too easily. Besides, why assault cruising vehicles, hitting them on 6's, when it's much easier to blast them with 8 psycannon shots.


Reecius wrote:@Jy2
Oh, you have my 2000 point list, I only have one dread and Bjorn at 1850.

Yeah, I just looked at your past battle reports and then compared them to the pics.


Just Dave wrote:Both are solid lists, however I've had to go for Reece due to his skill and experience with his list, whereas you're still getting to know yours I'd say.

Gonna be a great game though, I can't wait to see what happens!

Lovely board too, you've been quick to get all your Dreads ready as well!

Thanks. We played at GW Alamo in California. They have beautiful terrain. Some of the terrain there almost took my breath away. Best terrain I've seen in all the stores I've been to.

My dreads are not quite down. I still need to finish converting their arms to get dual autocannons.


rovian wrote:Death to the grey knights slaughter them puppies and where JY2 may know spacewolves reecius is a super strong player

LOL. Your comments are really unique.



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Made in us
Dakka Veteran





@Reecius
You don't run into Vulkan dual raider or the Mephiston multiple Land raider lists? I would expect them to be popular because because of multiple assault terminator units are pretty good.

Your right on rarely seeing Leman Russes.

@SonsofVulkan
TL Heavy Bolter is for when you don't have enough points since it costs less then the las cannon + tl plasma and assault cannon options.

Assault cannon's are actually better then las cannons against av14 but I also prefer the las cannon + tl plasma to the assault cannon but different people like different things.

@Andilus Greatsword
Assaulting land raiders when there are thunder hammer stormshield terminators running around can prove difficult and land raiders have rear armor 14.

@jy2
Can't wait to read your battle report.

I'll have to try the Vindicare at some point just on paper it seems like vindicare dies fast but that might be alright as that takes shots that could go elsewhere.

I'll have to disagree about running power fists in small squads. I run the wolfguard with powerfist and combi melta with 5 grey hunters and if you run up against other small squads they do give you an edge. Keeping the squad at 6 also lets you hop in a Razorback if your rhino gets destroyed.

Might have to try out the warding staff too as it possibly blocks the powerfist hit from opposing squad.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I'd like to see the outcome too.

I was against Crowe at first but it seems he is pretty good.
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick




USA

Problem in this game is that assault cannon is 24" and so is psycannon... and psycannon owns

If I had extra points and can only afford a razorback w hvy bolter, I rather just downgrade it to a rhino since longfangs can fire from inside if need be.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/20 14:43:59


 
   
Made in us
Badass "Sister Sin"






Camas, WA

SonsofVulkan wrote:Problem in this game is that assault cannon is 24" and so is psycannon... and psycannon owns

If I had extra points and can only afford a razorback w hvy bolter, I rather just downgrade it to a rhino since longfangs can fire from inside if need be.


Umm. Yuck. 2 Longfangs can fire from the rhino. Unless it is stunned. Not the best plan.

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Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick




USA

6x Long Fangs - 5x Missile Launchers, Razorback w/TL-Heavy Bolter
6x Long Fangs - 5x Missile Launchers, Razorback w/TL-Lascannon
6x Long Fangs - 5x Missile Launchers, Razorback w/TL-Lascannon

Give the razorbacks to the greyhunters? He would still have 1 extra razorback floating around, I guess as fire support. I'd just downgrade 1 of the lascan dreads to a rifledread and maybe some flamers to upgrade that hvy bolter RB into a lascan
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Lincolnshire, UK

Are you guys seriously providing criticism for Reecius' list?! Say Reece, how has this list performed for you?

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"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of."
- Roboute Guilliman

"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now."
- Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
 
   
Made in us
Badass "Sister Sin"






Camas, WA

Just Dave wrote:Are you guys seriously providing criticism for Reecius' list?! Say Reece, how has this list performed for you?

Nope just that guy...

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