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I don't play IG, so I have a question for you: If you were to play a game of annihilation or capture and control against vanilla marines at a 750 point level, what would you field and why?

I'm going to be playing a friend of a friend here pretty soon, and he plays IG (valhallen and desert cadian), I play vanilla marines *dodges brick* and would like to get an idea as to what to expect from his army, Thanks in advance.

Plasma, power weapons, and pie. For AP goodness.

murdog wrote:Plasma, power weapons, and pie. For AP goodness.

Unless he's running powerblobs, there will be no power weapons. But just expect a lot of high S, low AP firepower coming in. Use cover.

But to be honest, push for him to use a TAC list, tailored lists are no fun to fight against.

Gavo wrote:But to be honest, push for him to use a TAC list, tailored lists are no fun to fight against.

That is unless you are both tailoring your lists. That gets interesting pretty quick.

If he plays real Valhallans he'll run blobs and artillery, but I don't know what the inclusion desert Cadians means for his army. So ignoring that unknown Cadian element, he's going to have low mobility and be vulnerable to backfield clearers. At 750 points, a small squad of Sternguard in a Drop Pod, or some Scouts, can pretty reliably kill a Basilisk or two. Dealing with a horde is tough at 750, so ignore the problem. Dreadnoughts can tie them up for days, Ironclads more-so. Maybe something like:

Librarian, Gate, Avenger, 100
Ironclad Dreadnought, whatever armament you want, 135
10 Tacticals, Flamer, Missile Launcher, Rhino, 205
10 Scouts, 5 Combat Blades, 4 Sniper Rifles, Missile Launcher, Meltabomb, 155
Landspeeder Storm, 50
Predator, AC/HB, 85 (I didn't know what you'd want with 85 points, so do whatever)
730

The Storm insert half the Scouts to kill an artillery piece on turn 1, while the remaining snipers will sit on an objective. The Librarian gives the Tacticals some emergency mobility with Gate. This will give you the chance to make a desperate grab at contesting when the chips are down.

I would expect at least one Leman Russ possibly two.

Plus a couple of Powerblob units and the asociated CCS/PCSs to be tooled up with plasma and melta. Assuming cover is available in any quantity then Vanilla marines should find it suitably difficult.

Having said that if you are saying that your opponent has metal Valhallan and Cadian squads in his collection and these will be used, then I suspect that you will face off against either IS or Vets statically positioned armed with aq variety of Heavy and specialist weapons not tailored to the task. Could make for an interesting game?

At Least one basilisk, one melta-vet and power blobs. Or two basilisks.

I would take 4 russes and some artillery strikes... But that's just me.

4 Russes at 750 points? That would leave you with 150 points for troops and HQ.

Armoured company, bro.

L_Dawg wrote:4 Russes at 750 points? That would leave you with 150 points for troops and HQ.

With this list I beat an illegal eldar list (it had 5 heavy support)
I killed everything on the 4th turn and got 1 crew shaken from the eldar which was ignored due to the command tank.

sluggaslugga wrote:

L_Dawg wrote:4 Russes at 750 points? That would leave you with 150 points for troops and HQ.

With this list I beat an illegal eldar list (it had 5 heavy support)
I killed everything on the 4th turn and got 1 crew shaken from the eldar which was ignored due to the command tank.

Sure, but how did you make a legit list with 150 points for HQ and two troops? This isn't really helpful to the conversation due to the fact that he's not asking about anything with an alternate FOC.

To the OP, here would be my list at this point value:

CCS with 3 plasma, Chimera
Vet squad with 3 melta, Chimera
Vet squad with 3 melta, Chimera
Manticore
Basilisk

That's my TAC list.

CCS: basic, just add ML, Medic, Plasma+ 2x Body Guards
2x PCS: Each with Lascannon and 2x Plasma
2x PIS: Each with ML, Plasma, Commisar and 2xPW
2x PIS: Each with ML, Plasma, PW
(Each Platoon is 1x each of all 3 Platoon Elements)
750 on the Dot: 9 Plasma guns, 5 Missile launchers, 2 lascannons, 50 Bodies, 5 KP, Each Blob pouts out 6 PW attacks(9 on the Charge, not that they would charge).

Tacticly; would Center deploy the CCS, place the inner edge of each blob within 12" of the C-Commander(deploying them Flanking the CCS), then deploy the PCS Flanking the rest, and the P-Commander within 6" of the outer edge of the Blobs. Sit, Shoot, wait to be assaulted.

I play mech IG so I would play something like this at 750
hq
ccs 3 melta flamer chimera ml hff 140
troop
vets 3 melta auto cannon chimera ml hhf 165
vets 3 melta chimera ml hhf 155
fast
vendetta 130
heavy
manticore hhf 160

gives you some anti tank and anti infantry.

Loads and loads of plasma and lrbt.

So, good guard lists at this points level are going to start around a core that looks vaguely like either a 3x melta CCS in a chimera with 2 3x plasma vet squads in chimeras, or a lascannon CCS with 2 melta PCSs and 2 20-dude power blobs. Depending on how they upgrade things specifically, this will take up roughly their first 500 points.

After this, a good list will probably take two of something with the remaining 250 points (or three of certain units). If your opponent knows he's fighting marines, 250 points is very conveniently the price of two basilisks. They may not take artillery, though. There are a lot of ways to go.

If you have the points terminators will be amazingly effective as i play my friend he has space marines and if he ever uses them he wins or at least draws they are so versatile they willl tear up tanks and stroll through guard infantry.

Thanks for all the replies! Well, the way I figure it, I'm NEVER going to out-shoot an IG army, so why even try. I came up with a sample list that I think would throw the IG off guard a little. What is the one thing that all IG players hate? Getting assaulted, right? So here is my super assaulty 750 point list:

HQ
Chaplain
storm bolter 103

Elite
Termie assault squad (5 man)
(4) TH + SS (1) LC's 200

Troops
Tac squad (10 man)
Flamer
Drop pod 205

Vangaurd veterans squad (9 man)
drop pod 240

This list comes to 748 points, Basically I would drop the van vets (with attached Chappy) right into the middle of the blob, followed by the Tac pod, and then use the homing beacon from either pod to bring in the Termies, It's bold, but it just might work.

You do not have enough troops(unless your games do not require 2 Troops choices) Drop pods, while a second unit are dedicated transports, and Dedicated transports are not slots in and of themselves(they are purchased as part of the unit).

Also Vanguard vets are incredibly expensive for what they do.

It looks like you are using the vanilla codex; so try this:

Chaplain Cassius(gives you a good Chaplain, a MC_Combi Flamer, Crozius, and BP)125

Elite
Termie assault squad (5 man)
(3) TH + SS (2) LC's 200 (2 LCs are better against guard, the extra attack is invaluable, and they are not likely to be able to put enough PW wounds on you to necessitate the extra SS)

Troops
Tac squad (10 man)
Flamer
Drop pod 205

Tac squad (10 man)
Flamer
Drop pod 205

You also have 15 Points left over to put either a power weapon or Teleport homer on one of your Sgts; I would go with the power weapon on the Sgt that is not running with Cassius.

Assault Terminators are pretty bad against horde anything, but horde IG have the Power Weapons to make them basically worthless. Giving them a Chaplain just compounds the problem.

Horde IG will want you to assault them, because at this level you can't bring anything to clean them out efficiently. Even if he's running Mech IG, you don't have any long-ranged AT to peel back his armor. You'll end up assaulting transports, then dieing to the return fire of the cargo.

Do not meet the IG on their terms. If they bring hordes it is because they want to wear you down in assault and close ranged shooting. If they bring mech, do not try to match their ability to put tanks on the table: you will fail.

sub-zero wrote:I'm going to be playing a friend of a friend here pretty soon, and he plays IG (valhallen and desert cadian), I play vanilla marines *dodges brick* and would like to get an idea as to what to expect from his army, Thanks in advance.

? I think more brinks would be hurled at you for playing NON vanilla marines.

daedalus wrote:

sluggaslugga wrote:

L_Dawg wrote:4 Russes at 750 points? That would leave you with 150 points for troops and HQ.

With this list I beat an illegal eldar list (it had 5 heavy support)
I killed everything on the 4th turn and got 1 crew shaken from the eldar which was ignored due to the command tank.

Sure, but how did you make a legit list with 150 points for HQ and two troops? This isn't really helpful to the conversation due to the fact that he's not asking about anything with an alternate FOC.

To the OP, here would be my list at this point value:

CCS with 3 plasma, Chimera
Vet squad with 3 melta, Chimera
Vet squad with 3 melta, Chimera
Manticore
Basilisk

That's my TAC list.

The FOC was fine on my side...

Company command tank
Squadron command tank
Squadron tank
Squadron tank

1 HQ 1 Elite and 2 Troops... What's wrong with my army?

The fact that it's actually 4 Heavy Support choices.

Nice try though.

L_Dawg wrote:The fact that it's actually 4 Heavy Support choices.

Nice try though.

Could you quote your comments for others than the OP... it confuses me otherwise.
Were you saying this to me?

L_Dawg, he runs an Armored Company. The first tank is an HQ, the second an Elite, and the remaining are Troops. He's got no scoring units, but it is a legal list.

Slugga, you need to remember: Armored Companies are obscure. He obviously hasn't heard of it, so what you're doing could constitute trolling. Be upfront about the fact that your army list isn't codex and you won't have these issues.

DarkHound wrote:L_Dawg, he runs an Armored Company. The first tank is an HQ, the second an Elite, and the remaining are Troops. He's got no scoring units, but it is a legal list.

Slugga, you need to remember: Armored Companies are obscure. He obviously hasn't heard of it, so what you're doing could constitute trolling. Be upfront about the fact that your army list isn't codex and you won't have these issues.

Really? Oh wow, I never knew that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

sluggaslugga wrote:

L_Dawg wrote:The fact that it's actually 4 Heavy Support choices.

Nice try though.

Could you quote your comments for others than the OP... it confuses me otherwise.
Were you saying this to me?

Yes. If I don't quote the post I'm replying to, I always thought people would assume that I'm replying to the post above me.

DarkHound wrote:L_Dawg, he runs an Armored Company. The first tank is an HQ, the second an Elite, and the remaining are Troops. He's got no scoring units, but it is a legal list.

Slugga, you need to remember: Armored Companies are obscure. He obviously hasn't heard of it, so what you're doing could constitute trolling. Be upfront about the fact that your army list isn't codex and you won't have these issues.

You can do that? I was confused by his post as well. If that's a thing, then I apologize for the confusion on my part as well.

daedalus wrote:

DarkHound wrote:L_Dawg, he runs an Armored Company. The first tank is an HQ, the second an Elite, and the remaining are Troops. He's got no scoring units, but it is a legal list.

Slugga, you need to remember: Armored Companies are obscure. He obviously hasn't heard of it, so what you're doing could constitute trolling. Be upfront about the fact that your army list isn't codex and you won't have these issues.

You can do that? I was confused by his post as well. If that's a thing, then I apologize for the confusion on my part as well.

Death Korps of Krieg get the armoured company codex (which I own), which has everything you need to know about it in it... so you get bombardements, tanks, Aircraft, and all sorts of stuff.

Its 4 units that can be taken down with 1 hit each.

You would need infantry to screen your tanks at the very least or risk a Dreadnought/termie squad or worse DCC/Powerfisting their way through your very small force when the Deep strike at close quarters,where battle cannons and Heavy Bolters will be less than effective against these sorts of units.

Is your signature supposed to be parallel to the ghostbusters theme song? Sorry had to ask.

At 750, a guard player who is playing either armored company, or regular codex guard, will have common denominators. mainly due to the low point value. Just remember that what you pick in your list, and what you shoot at on the table will matter more for you than him. Guard is cheaper than marines. he will outnumber you.

In an armored company, if he goes with the "russ wall" you'll have no trouble with him. The "russ wall" is probably the easiest army to beat without troop support. I know. I've tried. Now if he plays armored company smartly, he'll have armored fists, probably a vendetta or valk. Bring the big guns.

Take some melta or lascannons. In fact, take some anyways. He's bound to have at least chimeras. If he's going footslogger, then heavy bolters a plenty.

He will probably have vets and chimeras if he's playing a regular codex list. Just remember to shoot the small command and platoon command squads to take away his orders and leadership. If he takes commissars, kill them.

If you load up on hand to hand and power weapons and lightning claws, and utilize drop pods, he will have a hard time with you... Unless he shoots your squads to bits the turn after they drop in.

Do not underestimate IG.