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So... I play CSM, and well... I think it's a little unfair that my Brothers of the warp have not yet been able to create a Land raider of there own. So, I propose the following to you all here at Dakka

Land Raider Hellspawn:

BS:3

AV: F 14 S 14 B:14

"This land raider has spent an ungodly amount of time traversing the warp. it's hull has become a host to all manner of Daemon, and warpspawn, as well as there daemonic powers. These extremely rare "freefloating" relics date back to the dark age of technology, when the first war began, and the first sorcerers of chaos began to open rifts to the Warp.

Dark Machanicus, and the Savage Morticians of Mendregarde have fitted this daemonic host with an armament that is as awesome, as it is horrifying.

Transport capacity: 3 Obliterators, or 6 summoned Daemons
*note: Normal Troops cannot embark into a Hellspawn, as the daemons within would rip them asunder.

Sponsons.
Hellfire Lancet:
R* S: 8 AP:3 Heavy 1 Lance*

*A hellfire Lancet fires a coalesced beam of pure and raw warp energy and as such, is extremely unstable, even for the forces of Chaos.
when firing a hellfire lancet, after range has been determined, but before hits are rolled Place a marker on the first model the lancet comes into contact with, then roll a d6. This determines the number of inches the lancet penetrates into the target. If fired into a squad, all models underneath the resulting line, suffer a wound, normal armor saves.

*If fired at a vehicle, the lancet is treated as a normal weapon, unless, the number rolled results in a line the passes completely through a vehicle, then it is treated as a "Lance" weapon, as the Lancer passes completely through the target, before dissipating.

If a Miss is rolled, the daemon weapon has decided that it wasn't in it's best interest to fire at that moment, and decides not to fire.


Warp Rift Cannon:

R: 36 S: 8 AP: 2 Heavy 1, Blast*

Main weapon:
A warp Rift Cannon, fires what is essentially a warp beacon, at a target. This weapon creates a rift to the fires of the warp, but only for a split second. Being exposed to the raw energy of the warp for even that minute amount of time is enough to cause uncontrollable and often fatal mutations. If, for any reason whatsoever, more than 6 models are killed using this weapon, if you have a model, place a Chaos Spawn model were the units once stood. if this is in the middle of a squad, it may take no action, until the following turn, and is NOT locked in assault.

if there is an obstruction blocking the direct line of sight of the Land Raider. The daemons within may use the sight of a Chaos sorcerer. Note: This does not change the weapons range. it only allows the Land Raider to use The Chaos Sorcerers Line of sight if there is an obstacle.

Point cost: 250.

Upgrades:

Daemon Armor: 30pts
One portion of the armor may be upgraded to Daemon armor. when hit with a penetrating hit, roll a d6 on a roll of a 5 the hit is reduced to glancing. on a roll of 6, the hit is negated. This can only be applied to one facet of armor. Front, Left side, Right side, or rear.

Corrupted Machine Spirit: 50pts
The Daemon within the hull of the Land raider may be replaced with a Corrupted Machine spirit. Increasing it's BS to 4


Well, that's about it
I, as always, look forward to everyone's opinions

very nice
uuhhh.....
aaarrrrrrrrhhhh.......
nnnnnoooooooooooooooo......
rrrrrraaaaaaaaaaaaagggggghhhhhh BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!!!!!

Yeah, I like it.
uuhhh.....
aaaaaaarrrrrhhh........
nnnnoooooooooooooo......
rrrraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrggghhhhhhhhhh

SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!

I really I like it, would, seems a tad bit weird in pricing for it's transport capability.
Also I think the Daemon armor is really cheap, points wise.

It's not overpowered, and in that sense it's good. However, what role does this fill that another vehicle doesn't do better?

It's not great at anti-tank, being that it only has 3 S8 weapons (two of which MIGHT be lance). It's not great at anti-infantry as it has low RoF and a small blast template. Yeah, the lines from the lances might hit something... if your opponent is bad. It's not a good transport as it has a low transport capacity and options for transportation. Your options for transport are thing that you wouldn't want to transport (the oblits) or things that deep strike and assault the turn they do (summoned daemons).

In the sense of "would I let you play it" yes I would. I wouldn't be afraid of this thing at all.

Thank you all

I was thinking for the Warp cannon, Large blast, doesn't scatter. But that sounded WAY overpowered, and as soon as I logged off for the night, I remembered that daemons can only deepstrike! I know that putting Oblit's in a transport doesn't make much sense... but it allows them to get around the battlefield a little quicker, allowing them to get that ridiculous amount of ranged killy-shooty-deathy-goodness to the fight, quicker.

Any Ideas for the Hellfire Lancets? I thought about heavy 2, or maybe AP 2, I just didn't want to make it too over powered, which it seems, I have ended up making it UNDER powered xP

It's hard to say. Again, you've got to think of what the army NEEDS not just what would be "cool" to do.

I say turn it into a redeemer-esque LR. Give it psychic powers that let it cast Winds of Chaos (or Breath of Chaos, or whatever the flamer template is that ignores armor and always wounds on a 4+). This gives it a couple of things that are going for it:

Frees up transport space (no ammo, whatever) so it can be used as a good transport (don't limit what it can carry)
Can be used as a breacher (just drives into enemy lines, and burns them).

I guess what I'm saying, is turn it into a Chaos-y Redeemer.

Seems really cool and not overpowered, would look good in games. Do you have a model in mind to use?

I am thinking it should be bs4 tho maybe for 50 points more. BS3 doesn't seem right fluff wise for a chaos army. Since the drivers and gunners have been using the vehicle in the warp for years i imagine they would be better shots by now. i know you have it as an upgrade but I think i should come as standard in my opinion. Althought i see no probelem with it being an upgrade.

The Acolyte wrote:Seems really cool and not overpowered, would look good in games. Do you have a model in mind to use?

I am thinking it should be bs4 tho maybe for 50 points more. BS3 doesn't seem right fluff wise for a chaos army. Since the drivers and gunners have been using the vehicle in the warp for years i imagine they would be better shots by now. i know you have it as an upgrade but I think i should come as standard in my opinion. Although i see no problem with it being an upgrade.

There is no crew within the vehicle, Only a very powerful daemon. Thus, giving it the "Daemonic Possession" USR. This allows it to ignore any crew shaken/crew stunned results, But reduces it to BS:3 That's why It's an upgrade.

I don't have a model yet, but I have some rough sketches, as well as a really good idea on what it's going to look like. I just need to get a SM land Raider Crusader/Redeemer kit, and then use some spikey bitz to Chaos it up. I do know for sure though, it will look pretty epic when it finally gets done xD I'll post a couple of pics when I finally have the funds for another land raider, and some more GS.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Shrike325 wrote:It's hard to say. Again, you've got to think of what the army NEEDS not just what would be "cool" to do.

I say turn it into a redeemer-esque LR. Give it psychic powers that let it cast Winds of Chaos (or Breath of Chaos, or whatever the flamer template is that ignores armor and always wounds on a 4+). This gives it a couple of things that are going for it:

Frees up transport space (no ammo, whatever) so it can be used as a good transport (don't limit what it can carry)
Can be used as a breacher (just drives into enemy lines, and burns them).

I guess what I'm saying, is turn it into a Chaos-y Redeemer.

I hadn't thought of that! That is actually a really cool idea... I could use the Redeemer template, and then use some GS to make the flamestorm cannons look like daemons and such. Maybe a more powerful single shot spell for the Main gun?

Shrike325 wrote:It's hard to say. Again, you've got to think of what the army NEEDS not just what would be "cool" to do.

Actually, that is the opposite of what people should be making up rules for. "What's cool" should be the prime motivator in anything new. "What's needed" should actually be considered a flaw in the new rule.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Shrike325 wrote:It's hard to say. Again, you've got to think of what the army NEEDS not just what would be "cool" to do.

Actually, that is the opposite of what people should be making up rules for. "What's cool" should be the prime motivator in anything new. "What's needed" should actually be considered a flaw in the new rule.

You can combine the two. The problem with just going with "what's cool" is that 99 times out of 100 it's a broken pile of junk that doesn't fit with whatever army it's intended for. This idea, is a great base concept. A land raider that's been wholly possessed by daemons. Awesome! Run with it. But turn it into something that's needed.

I would say one of two things for the main gun. Either a Reaper autocannon with 3 shots or something to make it a little more "main" gun, OR, let it cast Warptime on it's occupants.

Idea is pretty cool although I tend to agree that its weaponry could be improved

Maybe this should also be available to Daemons? Theres not much use for summoned daemons (they have to DS and have mediocre stats) and oblits dont need to move about too much

Hmm... some combination of the following

Soulstealer Auto-Cannon
S:7 AP:4 Heavy 4 Twin-linked

Eye of the warp:
The lights of the land raider have been replaced with the eyes of the Entombed daemon. all units assaulting out of the Land Raider benefit from the Warptime Psycher ability for that assault phase.

Warpstorm cannons
S* AP:- Template, Ignores Cover

A Warpstorm cannon sprays a gout of warp flame, eating through flesh, and even adamantium plating with relative ease. A Warpstorm Cannon always wounds on a 4+ regardless of toughness, and any vehicles instantly suffer a Glancing hit on a 3-4, and a penetrating hit on a 5-6.

Carrying capacity: As a Hellspawn needs no ammunition stores, it can carry 14 Marines, or 7 Terminators.

Son_of_Iron wrote:
Carrying capacity: As a Hellspawn needs no ammunition stores, it can carry 14 Marines, or 7 Terminators.

LRCs still need ammo and yet they carry 16. You'd probably want more than 14.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Son_of_Iron wrote:
Carrying capacity: As a Hellspawn needs no ammunition stores, it can carry 14 Marines, or 7 Terminators.

LRCs still need ammo and yet they carry 16. You'd probably want more than 14.

I would think that more than 14 khorne bezekers with warptime jumping out would be too powerful though

kenshin620 wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Son_of_Iron wrote:
Carrying capacity: As a Hellspawn needs no ammunition stores, it can carry 14 Marines, or 7 Terminators.

LRCs still need ammo and yet they carry 16. You'd probably want more than 14.

I would think that more than 14 khorne bezekers with warptime jumping out would be too powerful though

Lol, my thoughts exactly.

You can say that the offerings to the daemons to not eat the occupents souls take up the extra room. I'd also say allow it to take marks of the various chaos gods for different bonus'. Furious charge for Khorne, FNP for nurgle, make the flamer TL for Tzeench, not sure what to do with Slaanesh or Undivided. But they only get the bonus' for the round following the exit from the vehicle. Obviously the TL flamer is always active, and you could possibly make it a psychic hood equivilant for Khorne.
I love this idea, and would probably let you use it. Depends on the end result of course

I would say this is a good adjustment. Keeps the original flavor but gives it a unique role in a CSM army.

Sounds like an awesome idea, would give a bunch more flavor to the codex. And these ideas are all sweet. Im game, sign me up to get one.

CoI wrote:You can say that the offerings to the daemons to not eat the occupants souls take up the extra room. I'd also say allow it to take marks of the various chaos gods for different bonus'. Furious charge for Khorne, FNP for Nurgle, make the flamer TL for Tzeench, not sure what to do with Slaanesh or Undivided. But they only get the bonus' for the round following the exit from the vehicle. Obviously the TL flamer is always active, and you could possibly make it a psychic hood equivalent for Khorne.
I love this idea, and would probably let you use it. Depends on the end result of course

Hmmm.... how about this...

Mark of Chaos Undivided: 35pts
The daemon bound within it's hull, has made a pact with no god, and uses the power of raw Chaos energy to amplify it's own power.

The mark of Chaos undivided, allows the daemon within to predict attacks, and to adjust itself accordingly. The vehicle bestowed with this mark, is granted a 4+ cover save against all attacks.

Mark of Khorne: 35pts
The Daemon withing the hull of this LR has dedicated itself to the Lord of Skulls, and all slain by it, are sacrificed to the Blood God.

The Mark of Khorne has caused this Daemon to emit an aura of pure rage, and terror to those who would defy the Blood God. All friendly models within 6 Inches gain 1 additional attack in close combat, while all Enemy models within 12 inches Lose 1 attack in close combat, unless they are fearless.

Mark of Tzeentch: 50pts
The Daemon within, has made a pact with the lord of change himself, and has been granted far greater power then any mortal can even dream of...

The Mark of Tzeentch has bestowed an immeasurable font of power to the Daemon withing. The Warpstorm cannons have mutated even further, making the spells they unleash, far more deadly. Warpstorm cannons on a vehicle blessed with the Mark of Tzeentch, Always wound on a 3+, and are considered twin-linked.

Mark of Nurgle: 100pts

Pestilence, plague, and death writhe around the festering Daemon that has dedicated itself to Grandfather Nurgle.

The Mark of Nurgle has made this vehicle a cancerous, bloated, monument to the Lord of plagues. The armor of a vehicle Blessed with the Mark of Nurgle, writhes with the power of undeath. When ANY infantry model within 12 inches is killed as a result of combat, do not remove it Instead, place it on it's side. The following turn, roll a d6 for each model within 12 inches of the Land Raider. On a role of a 6, the model is placed under the control of the Chaos Player, and arises from death. Any "risen" models must remain within 12 inches of the Land raider, and must remain within base contact with each other, at ALL times. If a model falls more than 12 inches away, it slumps to the ground, and begins to decay. remove it as a casualty.

"Risen" models have the following profile, Regardless of what they may have had in life.

WS:3 BS:- S:3 T:5 W:1 I:2 A:2 LD:- Sv:-

"Risen" models do not fall back, are immune to pinning, and cannot go to ground for any reason.
Models killed with Power, Flame, AP:1, and Double toughness attacks, cannot be raised, remove them from the table as normal.
"Risen" models always have the listed 2 attacks, even if they charge, and cannot benefit from ANY attack modifiers. They always have 2 attacks, at S3. No matter what.

Note: Warpstorm Cannons are NOT flame weapons, and models killed with a Warpstorm cannon May be raised as normal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Clauss wrote:Sounds like an awesome idea, would give a bunch more flavor to the codex. And these ideas are all sweet. Im game, sign me up to get one.

I can make one for you, if you wish lol. I just need the materials

Getting alittle complicated on thet Nurgle rule. I was thinking maybe have the tank coutn as having Blight grenades and increase it rear armour by 1 (matches the general rule of increased toughness for nurgle models).

Praxiss wrote:Getting alittle complicated on thet Nurgle rule. I was thinking maybe have the tank coutn as having Blight grenades and increase it rear armour by 1 (matches the general rule of increased toughness for nurgle models).

hmm... I thought so, Perhaps I will save that rule for some kind of Plague unit, when ever I come up with one lol.

Maybe... increase the side armor? on both sides, to 15... But that seems a bit much...

I like the Blight Grenade Idea.

Blight Caster:
Any units assaulting out of a Land Raider with the Mark of Nurgle, Count as if they had Blight grenades. Which count as both, defensive, and assault grenades. Defensive grenades are of no consequence when defending a charge against models charging with a Blight Caster.

This model is going to look truly horrifying when I get done with it... hehe

Cloud of Flies:
A cloud of choking flies spews forth from the land raider, Clogging the wounds of those who are wounded. All models charging from a Nurgle LR have the FNP USR for the following shooting, and assault phases.

Maybe something like that?

The mark of Khorne thing needs to only be 6" for enemy models to lose an attack. En masse landraider and rhino rush with zerkers would destroy everything, and be a little op. For the nurgle one, You could have something like, Horrific stench, and all models within 6" or 12" or something get minus one strength as they struggle to not vomit and are weakened by the pestilence.

Yea I agree on lowering the khorne raider's range from 12 to 6. Still my goodness I think I wouldnt mind running 3 of these chocked full of bezerkers!

Perhaps Mark of Slaanesh causes negative modifiers to enemy leaderships?

kenshin620 wrote:Yea I agree on lowering the khorne raider's range from 12 to 6. Still my goodness I think I wouldnt mind running 3 of these chocked full of bezerkers!

Perhaps Mark of Slaanesh causes negative modifiers to enemy leaderships?

I just realized that I forgot about the Slaanesh lol.

Mark of Slaanesh:

This land raider has become a monument to the god, Slaanesh. It is warped, and twisted with all manner of colors, scents, and shapes.

The Daemon within has dedicated itself to spreading the influence, gifts, and pleasures, of the Prince of Excess. All enemy models within 6 inches have there leadership value reduced to 6.
and one additional point, for every inch they move closer to the land Raider.

So... 6 inch AoE for the Khornate LR... Seems a bit more reasonable.. xD

So, any other Ideas? lol, I'm writing all of this down, and everyone here has some REALLY good ideas, thanks for all of the support Dakka! XD

Son_of_Iron wrote:

Praxiss wrote:Getting alittle complicated on thet Nurgle rule. I was thinking maybe have the tank coutn as having Blight grenades and increase it rear armour by 1 (matches the general rule of increased toughness for nurgle models).

hmm... I thought so, Perhaps I will save that rule for some kind of Plague unit, when ever I come up with one lol.

Maybe... increase the side armor? on both sides, to 15... But that seems a bit much...

I like the Blight Grenade Idea.

Blight Caster:
Any units assaulting out of a Land Raider with the Mark of Nurgle, Count as if they had Blight grenades. Which count as both, defensive, and assault grenades. Defensive grenades are of no consequence when defending a charge against models charging with a Blight Caster.

This model is going to look truly horrifying when I get done with it... hehe

Cloud of Flies:
A cloud of choking flies spews forth from the land raider, Clogging the wounds of those who are wounded. All models charging from a Nurgle LR have the FNP USR for the following shooting, and assault phases.

Maybe something like that?

oops, forgot we were talking about a Land Raider, forget the increased armour thing. Maybe the cloud of flies could cause the LR to count as obscurred? With the Blight grenades i was actually thinkignthat it measn units charging the tank dont get their charge bonus. Means 1 less chain fist attack after all and is not game breaking but still Nurgly.

I kind of like the nurgle zombie thing. Perhaps make it that anyone killed by the warpstorm cannon becomes a Plague zombie on a 4+? With the above profile, its fluffy, not OP (I think) and usefull enough to buy.
I think keep the mark of Khorne 12 inches, but make it a leadership test. If they ignore their fear and attack, they're golden (and soon to be bloody )

Great ideas, figure if you are taking sugestions I would offer some.

First, on the weapons... why not have one main gun like you sugested and oblit sponsons? Oblit sponsons are chaosy, and tie in the 3 oblit transport capacity.

As for summoned daemons, instead change the carrying capacity to up to 10 possessed marines. Allow the raider to summon lesser daemons as if it had a mark, and for an upgrade cost of 30 points allow it to summon a GREATER daemon.

For additional upgrades, I sugest the following. For +x points the raider counts as opentopped, allowing the Oblits to fire out, and 1 can be taken as a dedicated transport. For +y points, if the raider does not move and contains an embarked possessed unit that does not disembark, the possessed can reroll what their daemonic power is, and one possessed unit can take the raider as a dedicated transport.

As for Marks, I would keep it closer to the established marks.
Khorne: Friendly units get +1 attack within 6, or if they aready have +1 attack gain preferred enemy.
Slaneesh: All friendly units within 6 gain +1 init, or if they already have +1 init gain hit and run.
Tzeentch: All friendly units within 6 gain an additional +1 to their invuln save, or a 5+ if they dont have one.
Nurgle: All friendly units gain +1 toughness, or if they already have +1 toughness gain FnP, and if they have that gain poison on regular melee attacks.

Mark of nurgle, reduce the toughness of all opposing models within 8 inches by 2 as the pestilence decays armour and softens flesh perhaps?

Mechanized Space Corps wrote:Mark of nurgle, reduce the toughness of all opposing models within 8 inches by 2 as the pestilence decays armour and softens flesh perhaps?

Thats a bit extreme. Reducing T by 2 means that bolters will now wound on a +2 on MEQs in that range