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With coming of their new codex, it seems that Grey Knights, due to their secretive nature, executing all their allies after the fighting. Space Marines, due to the great expense it takes to create them, are spared and only get a mind-wipe. If they resist like the Space Wolves however, they too are executed.

I have a few questions to ask concerning this.

Are all Guardsmen of the participating regiment executed from the bottom of the command chain to the top? Or is it that only the ones that fought get executed?

Also, where do Inquisitors stand in all this? One would think by virtue of their office, particularly Ordo Malleus Inquisitors, that they would be spared but perhaps not?

No information specifically on the officers, just that all guardsmen who bear witness are culled, those of heroic deeds in battle will undergo a high mortality mind-wipe. I would assume that officers are not exempt from this, although they may automatically go through the mind-wipe.

Inquisitors are exempt, they're allowed to have knowledge, although low ranking Inquisitors are not told, but I would also assume that they wouldn't be killed for knowledge that they may have to be told in the future, and that would have no adverse affect on their ability to do their job.

This is a stupid bit of fluff from RT that needs to die ... again.

What is "RT"? This has been cannon since the previous Daemonhunters Codex, it's not new to the controversial Mat Ward edition.

iproxtaco wrote:What is "RT"? This has been cannon since the previous Daemonhunters Codex, it's not new to the controversial Mat Ward edition.

Rogue Trader.
@OP The Space Wolves were not mind wiped... not sure where you got that from.

It has that when you scroll over, but I didn't think it was what he was talking about.

RT = Rogue Trader era.

Probably not but that's the only meaning for it in this context that i know of.

Fair enough, my suspicious mind jumped at you.

acekevin8412 wrote:With coming of their new codex, it seems that Grey Knights, due to their secretive nature, executing all their allies after the fighting. Space Marines, due to the great expense it takes to create them, are spared and only get a mind-wipe. If they resist like the Space Wolves however, they too are executed.

Is there a story with the Space Wolves being exectued for refusing a mind wipe?

What happens if a large group of space marines refuses a mind wipe?

Space Wolves were horrified at the prospect, so resisted. They, as far as I know, haven't been mind-wiped yet, or executed.
They're the only example I can think of, but the Grey Knights codex seems to imply that Space Marines could be executed, although they seem to just accept their fate as a duty to humanity.

acekevin8412 wrote:With coming of their new codex, it seems that Grey Knights, due to their secretive nature, executing all their allies after the fighting. Space Marines, due to the great expense it takes to create them, are spared and only get a mind-wipe. If they resist like the Space Wolves however, they too are executed.

I have a few questions to ask concerning this.

Are all Guardsmen of the participating regiment executed from the bottom of the command chain to the top? Or is it that only the ones that fought get executed?

All! Kill them all!

Also, where do Inquisitors stand in all this? One would think by virtue of their office, particularly Ordo Malleus Inquisitors, that they would be spared but perhaps not?

Of course. They're in charge of the GKs.

Okay, every day I like the GKs a bit less. Seriously, they're NOT well intended extremists. They're just extremists. Kinda like... Okay, I don't know who to compare them to. If they didn't go areound killing everyone, they'd be a bit like the MiB. Bit a bit more zealous.

Okay now, the Grey Knights are kept secret for a reason. I don't know this reason. Someone does. Who does it? Any of you?

I bought a bunch GKs to fight alongside my Imperial Guardsmen... And now I've put my GK models in a prison until my officers can give me their verdict.

I'm not crazy.

Nice. I'll buy a bunch of GK heads just to be used as trophies by my orks xD

Seriously, the Grey Knights and Inquisition are meant to be the Men in Black of the Imperium. Stop thinking their goody two-shoes Mary Sues and get over it. They leave no witnesses. It happens in the real world too, there are secret squirrel spec ops units out there that do this kind of thing, yes even to their own side. its not something that they enjoy doing, its not something you hear a lot about (for obvious reasons) but it happens.

But silver and red armor is my weakness. ;_;

Grey Knights over time have become more and more I dunno, less shining beacon of the Emperors ideals and more cloak and dagger operatives. I'm not a great lover of the new Grey Knights fluff, but there are other threads going into that.

Here's some pieces of background that might answer your question.

The section from Codex Imperialis on the First Armageddon war goes like this

Instead, the Administratum and the Inquisition set in motion a plan that would allow the planet’s industrial capacity to recover, without the truth of the conflict becoming known. Every man, woman and child who had fought against Angron’s horde was rounded up by troops drafted in from other warzones, sterilised and relocated to enormous forced-labour camps situated far to the south of Armageddon Secundus. Millions were forced to live out the remainder of their lives in slavery, producing the raw materials with which the world they had given everything to defend would be rebuilt.

With the Hive cities all but empty, and only the highest and mightiest exempted from the cull, the Administratum relocated millions of workers from far-away sectors to Armageddon to replace those who had looked upon the face of Chaos and lived.

Only one man dared protest against this ultimate sanction, this most craven of betrayals. Logan Grimnar, Great Wolf of the Space Wolf Chapter made his opposition plain, and, privately, many agreed with him.
Though he could not sway the faceless adepts of the Administratum, he has never forgiven them, nor has he ever forgotten the sacrifice of those who fought by his side during the darkest days of the First War for Armageddon.

And from the Apocalypse datasheet on the Grey Knights Redeemer Force

But that is not the end of the Ordo Malleus's duties. Once the Daemonic taint has been cleansed, the Grey Knights and their Inquisitorial comrades will ecterminate or mind - wipe those mortal men that have fought beside them. No one must be allowed to witness the taint of Chaos in its most purified form and live, for once the seed of corruption is planted it is virtually impossible to remove it. Such is the terrible truth of the Redeemer force, for the only true redemption they offer is death.

Normal humans are likely to either be killed or have their minds scrubbed. Astartes I guess would be exempt from this. Possibly because they might need to fight the forces of Chaos again?

Makes me wonder what would happen to Cadians if the Grey Knights got involved.

Wait a second ... I thought allies like Imperial Guardsmen are killed after the battle because they fought demons and their minds are not strong enough to cope with such a thing afterwards anyway. But Space Marines killing Imperial Guardsmen because they want to stay secret? I do not think so ...

Yea, if any contact with daemons would end up with a mindwipe, slavery or death, what about the cadians, thier world is situated right on the doorstep of the EoT. The guardsmen regiments would also suffer everytime chaos launches an offensive.

The only reason I can conceive of is that CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED! had a hand in determining the fates of those who have fought daemons during the Black Crusades.

The regular humans are killed because the Imperium is paranoid that if people know about Chaos, some of them will start worshipping it.

And given human nature, there's a certain amount of truth to this. Some people really are that stupid (frequently, there's a lot of willful blindness involved, though not always). I don't agree with this particular aspect of the Grey Knight fluff, but on the other hand I do recognize that there's a definite justification for it.


I'd also like to see something done in the future with Logan Grimnar's hatred of the Grey Knights. But unfortunately, GW will almost certainly just leave things as they are.

Thanks for all the responses.

Here is my response to your responses.

I have no problem with and accept the notion of executing all witnesses to daemonic taint. My original question was what constituted a "witness." Is the Lord General Militant of the Sector responding to daemon reports from his troops scrubbed, or are only those that actually participate executed.

Finally, I believe they keep the situation between Grimnar and the GK ambiguous to give justification for SMvGK matches, the same reason the had the whole Bloodtide fluff for SoBvGK.

acekevin8412 wrote:
I have no problem with and accept the notion of executing all witnesses to daemonic taint. My original question was what constituted a "witness." Is the Lord General Militant of the Sector responding to daemon reports from his troops scrubbed, or are only those that actually participate executed.

And I did give you this

and only the highest and mightiest exempted from the cull, the Administratum relocated millions of workers from far-away sectors to Armageddon to replace those who had looked upon the face of Chaos and lived.

A Lord General Militant of the Sector would be classed as highest and mightiest.

You're looking at your lowly Guardsman and regular member of the population, unless you have enough credits to buy your forgetfulness. Remembering something like a full scale daemonic incursion might be something you would possibly like to forget anyway.

I think the Mind Wiped Space Marines fluff has been dropped.

the only Mind Wiping done currently is of GK initiates to ensure they don't retain any of their former life.




I don't think the Cadians come into contact with actual deamons alot. its mostly Failbaddon's CSMs.

the Cadians also recieve training due to their proximity to the EoT. Kasrikin are the equivilant of ISTs(any many ISTs are Kasrikin)

I don't think that there any hard and fast rules for this kind of this, as with most things in the Imperium it is very grey. Probably a grim-dark grey.

Take a Crusade Army for example, reinvading worlds held by Chaos, huge swaths will be exposed to Demonic forces at some point but would a Warmaster allow the execution of a substantial proportion of his forces; almost definitely not. A close eye from the commissariat/inquisition would be enough; the human mind would soon forget/block the incidence and those that talk/obsess on it would be dealt with. Chaos is no secret here there is little silence; it is just a job of containing any taint.

The fact they would have the honour of forming the Forlorn Hope at the next possible opportunity would speed the ultimate closure on to subject in a productive way.

The GKs appearing amidst of the otherwise loyal populace of Imperial World Random VII would be different. The people of Random VII are not aware of the insidiousness of Chaos just broadly aware of their duty to oppose and fear it (as rightly taught by the Ecclesiarchy), so the super secret super soldiers of the GKs and the true nature of Chaos must be contained - Cleanse the tainted and loyal alike to the extent required to contain that knowledge.

I bought their codex with the intent to start an army. read through the fluff and shelved that idea. I like the part in the current GK codex where they justify their use of "sorcery" simply because they don't have to answer to anyone. Blood sacrificing Sisters of Battle to use innocent blood to anoint their armor. blah blah blah, boring.

I now taunt those GK players I play against, calling them spawn of the warp, chaos infected. When others (those at the store who watch) ask what armies we are playing, I am sure to point out that I am playing against chaos GK

I am not a fan of this bit of fluff

This fluff makes little sense when you think about it. Grey Knights kill people who come into contact with and are aware of deamons. But the danger of warp travel, and the risks of the denziens that dwell within it, is common knowledge, especially throughout the navy.
And psykers often end up being possessed, that's why commissars stand ready to execute the battlefield psykers.

The risks and nature of the warp are least are common knowledge, if not the existence of the Dark Gods.

There is very little fluff anywhere that makes sense if you look at it from a logical POV.

It's written to make Grimdark sense.

What I mean is, this particular doctrine, especially the reasons behind it, contradicts the rest of 40k sources.

If the GK were doing to prevent some sort oftain that deamons invariably pass on that would make more sense, but to kill witnesses becuase of the knowledge of the existence of deamons seems silly, especiall when that knowledge is actually pretty common.