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From the fluff descriptions, a space marine, eldars, ork boyz and etc are all suppose to be well over 2 meters in height. Yet GW makes most of the models on 25mm bases the same height....

How hard is it for GW to just make the space marines models and etc taller than the IG guardsman?

The problem isn't with Marines and everyone else being too short... it's that Guardsmen have crept up over the years.

Although some of the fluff has indicated that even regular humans are quite a bit taller in the 41st millenium. Commissar Gaunt is, IIRC, around 2 meters tall, and he's not a Space Marine...

Well, 2 meters isn't that rare in 21st century humans. If you tried to power armor on a catachan they would be huge, yet space marines are supposed to be bigger, hence all the true scale stuff. What really needs to be true scaled is everything else.

Space marines without powerarmor are all well over 2 meters tall, with powerarmour... you get the idea

I understand if the SM scout models are the same height as a cadian trooper model. But the damn regular SM models are all the same height. How hard is it for GW to just add alittle more plastic to make them taller and bulkier?

SonsofVulkan wrote:Space marines without powerarmor are all well over 2 meters tall, with powerarmour... you get the idea

I understand if the SM scout models are the same height as a cadian trooper model. But the damn regular SM models are all the same height. How hard is it for GW to just add alittle more plastic to make them taller and bulkier?

why does it matter? you use your imagination most of the time anyway, can't you just imagine the marines being taller?

why does it matter? you use your imagination most of the time anyway, can't you just imagine the marines being taller?

The point is he shouldn't have to. The guy is annoyed because GW has massive scale issues. Is he wrong? People have certain expectations it's why they don't play with paper chits or green army guys. It's bugged me for a long time that your average guardsman is actually much bigger than a space marine.

But I guess that is why they are considered heroic scale.

Space marine in armor should be on average about 3 meters tall now right. Shaq is 7.1 feet. Lets say that is average for an unarmored marine, Armor would add maybe 6 inches. Give a 12 inch +/- for variable heights. I guess I could see some of them being over 9 feet with armor.

The only reason I even got into WH40k table wargaming was first from playing the Dawn of War games and reading the novels. I fell in love with all the carnage and chaotic and how cool, majestic and all-mighty the Astartes(Chaos SM included) were.

Now when you shell out like $30 for plastic models that should cost like $3 to manufactured, I expect perfection...

Games Workshop has invested too much money in the current Space Marines molds, and sold too many Space Marine models to radically change the scale of the models now. Should they be bigger? Without question. But don't expect to see it happen any time soon, if ever.

SonsofVulkan wrote:The only reason I even got into WH40k table wargaming was first from playing the Dawn of War games and reading the novels. I fell in love with all the carnage and chaotic and how cool, majestic and all-mighty the Astartes(Chaos SM included) were.

Now when you shell out like $30 for plastic models that should cost like $3 to manufactured, I expect perfection...

Perfection? Is this really such a thing to get worked up over?

The Marine range is based on the tactical Marine kit which was sculpted in 1997 or so. Every other kit has followed suit and been of the same scale.Imperial Guard got plastic kits that have creeped up in scale over the years. The two ranges aren't totally in scale, but recutting every single Space Marine kit to be taller or every single IG kit to be smaller is a horrible waste of resources. If this really matters so much to you, truescale your Marines. I'd love it if Marines really were taller than Guardsmen and the like, but the fact that the models aren't is a complete non-issue.

This has bugged me for a bit to. in the comics a guards man has to look up at a marine yet in the game he can eyeball him and(the 5 forbid) LOOK DOWN ON HIM.
this needless to say REALLY pisses me off. especially since they cost what £20 odd pounds?!?

the problem is that guardsmen would lose alot of detail if they made them true scale to space marine models.


and then the IG players would all whine and complain about how small their dudes are

So what if Guardsmen aren't to scale?
None of the models are really in scale, by these arguments. For example, look at the SM Rhino in comparison to the SM themselves. No way you can fit 10 model marines into one model Rhino.
Scale problems, such as they are, are generally explained away with the following argument; the models aren't actually representative of the unit's size on the battlefield, they're just there for show. The unit is better represented by the base, which shows it's actual location on the battlefield. Vehicles are represented by the area they take up, incidentally.

SkaerKrow wrote: Should they be bigger?

No, absolutely not.

Again, Guardsmen should be smaller. Scale creep is bad, m'kay?

Yeah its not the space marines who are made too big, its the guardsmen. Just dont tell anyone who made a whole army of truescale marines

I think at this point it would be more appropriate to heighten the space marines. You should probably do that along with shrinking the imperial guard. I mean, even compared with the old models, the space marine models were only about a head's worth height difference at times, tops. That's hardly the 9 feet tall that a Space Marine should be.

Normal Space Marines are closer to 10 feet. (Which equals about 3-ish meters to us in the industrialized world)

Guardsmen have grown bigger during the years, something in that soylens viridian they're eating perhaps? Back in the days they were thinner and not so long. My Cadians are ridciulously(sp?) large in comparison.

SonsofVulkan wrote:The only reason I even got into WH40k table wargaming was first from playing the Dawn of War games and reading the novels. I fell in love with all the carnage and chaotic and how cool, majestic and all-mighty the Astartes(Chaos SM included) were.

Now when you shell out like $30 for plastic models that should cost like $3 to manufactured, I expect perfection...

So aside from your failure of grasping the basic economics of production, your complaint is that the game that's been around for 25 years doesn't match the particular image you have in your head?

And aside from soothing your outraged sense of aesthetics, what other benefit would spending a few million dollars to redo all those kits bring?

*edit* Ah yes, I also forgot just how now two people every agree on just how tall a marine is really supposed to be either.

Wow, is it 1994 again? I remember this discussion.

Toastedandy wrote:Yeah its not the space marines who are made too big, its the guardsmen. Just dont tell anyone who made a whole army of truescale marines

Actually, its not just the guardsmen who have gotten bigger, its the Eldar, Tyranids, and pretty much everything else that are too big. Tau are supposed to be smaller than your average human, yet they look like they could give even a catachan a run for his money with the size of their arms, etc. The easier fix is to make truescale marines, rather than to truescale everything else.

Also, people need to quit arguing over the height of a space marine. Until someone gives me an actual quote from GW saying they are such and such feet/meters tall, I'm going to say "no, you're wrong" to everyone. I have seen people guess everything from 7 feet to 12 feet, and probably taller than that.

I am impressed by reading this post. Good to know many people are of the same opinion..

I have recently come to the hobby after Dawn of War and the first Horus Heresy books, so i and started with marines. I was appalled the first time i saw a guardsman model...

GW hasn't got the scale right on these in 30 years. I don't think anything is going to change. Unless of course the figure they will do it in a few years, that way they can resell the whole range.

Wow, is it 1994 again? I remember this discussion.

That's really when they should have taken the time to redo them. Now it's kindof too late. Unless of course the figure they will do it in a few years, that way they can resell the whole range.

if anything, GW would resculpt the IG models to be slightly smaller.


the current basic marine sculpt probably won't change within any concievable amount of time.

I think the fluff has fairly well established that, while the average space marine is around 9.5 feet, there is obviously some variation on height. Some rare ones could be as tall as 10 or as short as 9.

Grey Knights tend to be somewhat shorter, and somewhat wider, due to the increased gravity on Titan.

The problem, as others have said, is not that the SM models are too small, but that the guardsmen models have gotten too large. GWS has never been that great for scale.

I always thought Space Marines were supposed to be 15 feet in height.

Kidding me, WarOne...

15ft would be for Primarchs, maybe...

It's already enough that it's 13 for Chapter Masters, 12 for Captains, 11 for Vets, and 10 for "Regular" Marines...

But 15ft for regular Marines? Dude, come on... Let the big guys talk uh...

It's interesting that player expectations of how big Marines are supposed to be have also crept up. IIRC the image at HQ has them at 7'6" which is about right for superhumans - nine feet is ridiculously massive.

Established height of a Marine: 7'0-7'6 unarmoured. This was stated by Jes (the designer of Space Marine in their current look), and they regard the fiction with 8'+ marines as laughable.

The official GW wall chart from a studio photo had a Marine armoured with legs outstretched slightly at 7' tall; standing straight he would probably be just shy of 8' in full armour.

The problem is Guardsmen are too big compared with Space Marines, Eldar and Orks who are all more or less correctly scaled.

Isn't a large factor in this the ability to mix and match weapons, heads, etc.

i.e. any hobbiest can add some individuality by swapping a marine head with an IG sargent etc.

Wait, what?

I've never heard of Space Marines growing bigger as they go up in rank...

Could it be... that Space Marines are secretly Ork kommandos in disguise? Ded sneaky!

Sssht! Dont tell further, humie!


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Sssht! Dont tell further, humie!