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As you may know, GW has recieved a bit of criticism over the last few weeks [/understatement]
Some of that was from me! Hence, I sent a letter to Mark Wells (GW CEO) which I have copied here:
Spoiler:
Dear Sir,
It is with regret that after 23 years of loyal custom I feel compelled to cease purchasing Games Workshop product and look for alternatives elsewhere. Despite the abiding appeal of your games and the settings thereof, I can no longer support a company whose business decisions are so flagrantly to the detriment of their customers.
I appreciate that Games Workshop is a business and must make a profit. I further understand that as a publicly traded company, you have an obligation to your shareholders – but if your decisions (designed it seems purely to prop up short term profit margins) lead to the alienation of your customers and a continuation of the falling sales volume you have experienced for many years, then I see no long term future for the company.
It is a fact – and one that you and your colleagues have stated publicly – that you rely on the goodwill of your customers to advertise your product through word-of-mouth recommendation, yet your actions often indicate nothing but contempt for the hopes and expectations of those customers, as examples:
1. Your ‘Specialist Games’ range has clearly become a dumping ground for games that you no longer wish to support yet are unwilling to remove from sale in spite of repeated claims to the contrary.
2. An inability (or simple refusal) to write balanced and tightly-worded rules to reduce disagreements between players and to facilitate better tournament play, justified by the tired trope that players can create house rules for anything they don’t like – despite the fact that having better rules in no way prevents the creation of house rules by those inclined to do so.
3. A release schedule which consistently leaves some factions without an update for entire editions of their associated game and many units having rules but no representing models.
4. Spates of ‘Cease and Desist’ orders issued by your legal department to companies who are in many cases filling in the blanks left by your release schedule. A classic case of trying to deal with symptoms rather than cause.
5. Paranoid levels of secrecy regarding new releases and increasingly heavy-handed attempts to thwart the release of information, as if having people excited about forthcoming releases and spreading the word about them is somehow detrimental to sales.
Your most damaging decisions, however, have come with price. Like-for-like prices have risen almost 600% over the last 25 years, despite the UK inflation rate running at 160% over the same period. The growth of your company should have led to economies of scale, particularly when associated with a move to cheaper casting materials – first with plastic and most recently with ‘finecast’ resin. However, whilst your plastic kits are cheaper than the metal equivalent of those models, they remain twice (if not more) as expensive as comparable multi-part 28mm plastic kits made by your competitors. In contrast your ‘finecast’ kits are more expensive than their metal equivalents and are receiving worryingly bad reviews from independent sources with regards to their casting quality.
Your latest round of price increases, coupled with the change to ‘finecast’ has led some products to receive an effective 30% price rise – in the current economic climate people simply cannot afford these kinds of increases.
Finally, the embargo on independent retailers shipping outside of the EU has made the hobby prohibitively expensive for many in the affected territories, particularly in Australia and New Zealand. Your public statements regarding independent retailers are frankly offensive – surely all avenues that allow people to participate in Games Workshop’s games and other hobby activities are of benefit as this will grow your customer base? The notion that somehow buying from an online retailer is damaging to ‘the hobby’ is absurd. If it is not economically viable to run Games Workshop stores in certain territories, why not work with local independents or gaming clubs to raise the profile of your games? Simply trying to force people to pay prices they cannot afford will lead to fewer customers and hence less of the ‘local support’ you claim to cherish.
The culmination of all these decisions has reached a head in the last fortnight and has given rise to an outpouring of feeling I have never experienced before. To try and get a measure of the mood of the gaming community I conducted an online poll through the ‘dakkadakka.com’ website (one of the leading online forums for discussion of Games Workshop products) which garnered 565 responses over a 5 day period with the following results:
106 people (18.76%) stated that they had already ceased buying Games Workshop products before the latest price rises, with a further 94 people (16.64%) saying that they would no longer buy in the future.
66 people (11.68%) stated that they would make one last purchase to complete existing projects but would make no further purchases whilst 167 people (29.56%) said they would remain as customers but would spend less in the future than they presently do.
116 people (20.53%) stated that there buying habits would remain unaffected with just 16 people (2.83%) planning to increase their future spending.
In summary 35.40% of customers who responded to this survey will no longer spend money with you, 41.24% will spend less than they had otherwise planned with only 23.36% spending as much or more than before. Whilst an individual letter can be ignored, surely these figures should make you aware of the depth of feeling against your decisions?
In closing, I wish to extend an olive branch. It remains my firm belief that Games Workshop can regain the custom of those like myself who have decided that we can no longer support the company and are looking instead at wargaming pastures new, but only if it is willing to change and truly willing to address the needs and concerns of its customers. I and many others would be happy to engage with you and work with you to overcome these problems, but you must open the door for us to walk through.
Regards,
To which I recieved the following response:
Spoiler:
Thank you for your letter in which you described your concerns regarding Games Workshop’s strategy. You raised a number of issues and I will do my best to address them.
First, as for our product releases and rules, the last thing we are trying to do is treat our customers with contempt. Quite the reverse. Come down to Nottingham and talk to us if you have any doubts on that score. When Jervis says he will speak to anyone regarding their concerns, he is serious about that. I see him most weeks in Bugmans having coffee with experienced customers like yourself to learn what your suggestions are.
The simple fact is that we cannot possibly make everything that every customer wants as there is a limit to how much our Studio can design or our factory make. We have to make choices about what products we release and when. Specialist games is a good example. We would love to have another go at one of these, but there are other exciting projects that we have to deliver first.
That’s not to say they will never be revisited, as we showed with Space Hulk, it’s simply a case of priorities. That’s why we keep them in the range, so that at some time in the future we have the option to come back to them. We are not trying to be disrespectful to fans of these games, many of whom will love the other new stuff we do as well. It’s just that they are not top of the list right now.
As for the legal action we take against infringers, I don’t think we have any choice. They have taken, without our permission, intellectual property which our design teams have taken years to develop and have used it for their own commercial purposes. That is clearly morally and legally wrong. If companies want to make product using our intellectual property then they should approach us for a licence, like Fantasy Flight Games have. Provided they meet our quality standards and our minimum royalty requirements, then we will consider them. But they can’t simply steal from us and expect us to ignore them.
As for secrecy about new releases, what we have found is that the more secret we keep things, the more excitement there is about a launch. Space Hulk was a great example of this, as was Finecast. Some people love to know in advance what is going to happen, of course. But as you point out in your letter, we are a commercial organisation. And what we have learnt is that the more information that is leaked in advance, the weaker the launch. The more secret we keep it, the bigger the launch. We are not being paranoid, it just makes sense for us to do it that way, nothing more than that.
Next let me deal with price increases. We review our pricing each year. In doing so we take into account the costs of designing and making the product, raw material costs, support costs such as staff salaries and rent for our Hobby Centres and of course any quality improvements we have designed into the products.
All of these costs have increased in recent years, particularly raw material costs such as tin and plastic which have increased far faster than our retail prices. The reason that we have been able to absorb much of this cost pressure is that we are constantly investing in technology and training to deliver greater efficiency in our manufacturing and design processes. We have also worked hard to keep our staffing to a minimum in all areas, from hobby centres to production lines to offices.
However, the one area where we will not compromise is quality. Every miniature we have released since you started in the hobby has delivered an improvement in quality. Our plastic sets, paints, scenery and hobby products are incomparable compared to then. I’d argue that our product quality has improved at a far faster rate in recent years than our prices.
Finally, I’m not seeking to offend anyone when I say that European trade accounts have not invested in growing the customer base outside Europe. I’m simply stating the facts. If we had not taken action to enforce our European trade terms, they would have continued to undermine the very accounts you suggest we work with to support clubs in places like Australia and New Zealand.
Those local Australian and New Zealand accounts have worked hard over the years to build up their customer base by word of mouth and running events. As have our Hobby Centres which have recruited tens of thousands of customers through introductory activities, painting lessons and beginners programmes. It’s because we want to have a vibrant customer base in Australia in twenty years time, that we are taking legitimate action now to support local accounts and Hobby Centres.
Hopefully that helps to explain the reasons for each of the decisions we’ve made. I’m sorry that at the moment you are unhappy with us. It certainly wasn’t our intention to upset you. What I hope comes across is that whenever we are faced with difficult choices at Games Workshop, we always seek to do the right thing for the long term. That may make us unpopular with customers from time to time.
However, we believe that the choices we have made will enable us to keep making fantastic miniatures and games with outstanding service from local accounts and Hobby Centres. And, if we keep doing that consistently well over time, in the long term there will continue to be a great Games Workshop for current and future customers to enjoy.
Yours sincerely
Mark Wells
First, apologies for the wall of text but I thought I would be doing a disservice to those interested by paraphrasing what he had to say. As to my feelings?
Well, I have to say I am impressed to have a personal reply - certainly not something I expected, but it is clearly not a standard letter as it addressed everything I said point-by-point. I think I was misinterpreted slightly with regards to copyright infringement - I was pointing out that if GW had done its job properly to start with then aftermarket bits companies would not have arisen in the first place but reading back I don't know if I made that clear enough.
As for the biggies:
All price rises are justified because the quality is universally better... Secrecy works - it made the release of Space Hulk and Failcost the successes they were... oh wait Specialist Games are not being ditched 'in case we go back to them later, like Space Hulk'... err, SH was never a Specialist Game and had been officially out of print for years before the splash 3rd edition. Australia and New Zealand need protecting from those evil European traders or the hobby will disappear down under... what the ?
Games Workshop always takes decisions for the 'long term'...
Back to the drawing board, methinks.
While you sleep, they'll be waiting...
Have you thought about the Axis of Evil pension scheme?
I'm sorry, if you people have to take into account the price of tin/plastic, then why do competitors such as privateer press still price their products lower?
EDIT: Now, since you people quoting me on the 8th-9th page can't be bothered reading the entire thread before attempting to start a flame war, here's what I posted on the 5th page.
Brunius wrote:
Mr Mystery wrote:
Brunius wrote:I'm sorry, if you people have to take into account the price of tin/plastic, then why do competitors such as privateer press still price their products lower?
In short? They don't. Plus, GW have larger overheads. But you know, don't let facts get in the way of your bile, will you?
Sure, I won't let facts get in the way of my bile.
It seems to me that they are content to offer an olive branch with one hand and kind words and continue to undermine the true nature of the hobby and continue to alienate their customer base with the other. I actually went into my GW Bunker for the first time in months yesterday and was literally floored by the prices...over twenty dollars for a rune priest is absolutely ridiculous. Granted my level of income is low to say the least, what with paying for school and other activities, I feel forced to finish off the armies I have and be thankful I started the hobby back before these increases, but I will not be starting any new projects with any GW projects.
Point by point, but sadly, the one I wanted to see addressed the most was your request for a tighter rules set. You hit the nail on the head: better rules doesn't mean people can't house rule whenever they want.
For me personally, that has always been the largest issue.
Q: How many of a specific demographic group are required to carry out a simple task?
A: An arbitrary number. One to carry out the task in question, and the remainder to act in a manner stereotypical of the group.
Props to Mark Wells for the reply.
Cannot say I agree with all of it, but without the data like he has (I assume) I cannot argue with that (but the poll seems to agree that his arguments are not stopping ill feelings)
This letter seems to me to have been written by a corporate Chav with an overblown ego who reckons he doesn't have to pretend that he cares what the customers want. Oh well, I'm off to pick up that new Warmachine expansion. Anybody wanna buy a Tyranid army, cheap?
Triple King wrote:A very interesting read. Compliments to you for a very well worded letter.
Compliments indeed.
However, his pre-fabricated response shows nothing if not contempt. His secretary probably copied and pasted it then made a few changes...
MikZor wrote:
We can't help that american D&D is pretty much daily life for us (Aussies)
Walking to shops, "i'll take a short cut through this bush", random encounter! Lizard with no legs.....
I kid Since i avoid bushlands that is But we're not that bad... are we?
I have seen similar letters from Mr Wells that were sent to other people who had sent in letters of complaint. The response may well be personal in that he addresses specific points but it is very much a from letter in that the rebuttals presented are exactly the same and the same wording as other letters sent to customers.
Those local Australian and New Zealand accounts have worked hard over the years to build up their customer base by word of mouth and running events. As have our Hobby Centres which have recruited tens of thousands of customers through introductory activities, painting lessons and beginners programmes. It’s because we want to have a vibrant customer base in Australia in twenty years time, that we are taking legitimate action now to support local accounts and Hobby Centres.
Way it's going I'll be surprised if they have this customer base at all in 10-15 years. If the prices weren't stupid people wouldn't bother with the two week wait to ship it from across the world and go to these FLGS which seem to be quite uncommon and work by providing more than just GW as they have to keep to the crazy GW prices here which are probably pretty detrimental to these independent stores. They don't need to be lowered to the point where they are really cheap, just balanced more with their overall global pricing. One step at a time really.
The main reason they were probably able to reach those numbers were that they had a monopoly here for a fair while, but now that they don't the market may slip away from them.
LunaHound wrote:K phew, it wasnt just dejavu then >.<
Nope. I'm sure a sufficiently motivated person could find other letters that Mr Wells has sent - there was one posted in General Discussion a couple of weeks ago, I seem to remember.
LunaHound wrote:K phew, it wasnt just dejavu then >.<
If it werent beer'o'clock I would search the forums ofr the previous letter threads...
MikZor wrote:
We can't help that american D&D is pretty much daily life for us (Aussies)
Walking to shops, "i'll take a short cut through this bush", random encounter! Lizard with no legs.....
I kid Since i avoid bushlands that is But we're not that bad... are we?
In response to the reply - it seems to be pretty political. More of a "Well, let's just gloss over the facts with some pretty words to make us look better."
LunaHound wrote:K phew, it wasnt just dejavu then >.<
If it werent beer'o'clock I would search the forums ofr the previous letter threads...
filbert wrote:
LunaHound wrote:K phew, it wasnt just dejavu then >.<
Nope. I'm sure a sufficiently motivated person could find other letters that Mr Wells has sent - there was one posted in General Discussion a couple of weeks ago, I seem to remember.
My brain stops working after 11pm, but if im not mistaken that specific thread is no more than 2 weeks old.
I tried looking it up but the wall of text killed me xD
LunaHound wrote:K phew, it wasnt just dejavu then >.<
If it werent beer'o'clock I would search the forums ofr the previous letter threads...
filbert wrote:
LunaHound wrote:K phew, it wasnt just dejavu then >.<
Nope. I'm sure a sufficiently motivated person could find other letters that Mr Wells has sent - there was one posted in General Discussion a couple of weeks ago, I seem to remember.
My brain stops working after 11pm, but if im not mistaken that specific thread is no more than 2 weeks old.
I tried looking it up but the wall of text killed me xD
Someone needs to create the Death by Wall of Text Demotivational...
MikZor wrote:
We can't help that american D&D is pretty much daily life for us (Aussies)
Walking to shops, "i'll take a short cut through this bush", random encounter! Lizard with no legs.....
I kid Since i avoid bushlands that is But we're not that bad... are we?
okay, he definately avoided answering to your points. He is counter-arguing without responding to any issues you have mentioned, and it was pretty clear to me that you are accusing GW of leaving blanks that were their own fault for having been exploited.... He pulled a classic PR stunt of touching on your points without dealing with them. I cannot say I am at all impressed, this has done as much to damage GW in my eyes as the past few years' price increases.
And i was not aware Dark Eldar were also a specialist game... because the models that go into Space Hulk are, aparantly, incompatible with 40 k........... gotta love that... Hell, LOTR is a specialist game: its already dead, when have they realeased anything on it??? It is to all intents and purposes dead... a great pick-me-up when the movies came out, a segway both ways: from film to gaming to their main lines, and excitment for their main customer base of a new line of product. beyond that though, its clear its a dead line.... on the upside, its not likely to change. (i do not mean it is dead in the sense nobody plays it, but in GWs eyes....)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AvatarForm wrote:
LunaHound wrote:
AvatarForm wrote:
LunaHound wrote:K phew, it wasnt just dejavu then >.<
If it werent beer'o'clock I would search the forums ofr the previous letter threads...
filbert wrote:
LunaHound wrote:K phew, it wasnt just dejavu then >.<
Nope. I'm sure a sufficiently motivated person could find other letters that Mr Wells has sent - there was one posted in General Discussion a couple of weeks ago, I seem to remember.
My brain stops working after 11pm, but if im not mistaken that specific thread is no more than 2 weeks old. I tried looking it up but the wall of text killed me xD
Someone needs to create the Death by Wall of Text Demotivational...
four letters: "TL: DR"
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/06/21 07:53:17
15 successful trades as a buyer;
16 successful trades as a seller;
To glimpse the future, you must look to the past and understand it. Names may change, but human behavior repeats itself. Prophetic insight is nothing more than profound hindsight.
It doesn't matter how bloody far the apple falls from the tree. If the apple fell off of a Granny Smith, that apple is going to grow into a Granny bloody Smith. The only difference is whether that apple grows in the shade of the tree it fell from.
mmm, had not seen the similar responses and am now feeling less well disposed towards Mr Wells than I was - do you think they have so many complaints about the same things that they can afford to have a 'cut-and-paste' bank depending on people's letters?
I find that prospect horribly likely to be true
There was indeed a lot of artful dodging (although in fairness he was hardly likely to say "You know what, you're right about everything and we'll crack on with those changes right away!") but I am tempted to write back, thanking him for his letter and pressing him on all the stuff he failed to answer.
P.S. thanks for the compliments
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/21 09:06:46
While you sleep, they'll be waiting...
Have you thought about the Axis of Evil pension scheme?
So, you get a response, and don't like what you hear, so the guy is a witch?
Erm.....PROFIT!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Brunius wrote:I'm sorry, if you people have to take into account the price of tin/plastic, then why do competitors such as privateer press still price their products lower?
In short? They don't. Plus, GW have larger overheads. But you know, don't let facts get in the way of your bile, will you?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/21 09:26:02
Without doubt their pricing in exorbitant: prices have risen here in Australia despite our dollar rising strongly in value compared to both the USD and the pound. Consequently, I can buy a ForgeWorld Grey Knights Dreadnought for less than it would cost to buy an ordinary plastic GW Dread. Make sense?
But not that this is of concern: I haven't even been to a GW shop for years, regardless of the additional services they offer. I just want my mini's, I'll teach myself to paint and play at home with my friends, not with people I don't know. So why should I have to pay extra for these services I am not interested in? GW's new policy makes it quite alot more difficult to source cheap (read: reasonably priced) Warhammer models. I've compared our prices to those in the UK and elsewhere.....everything is about 1/3 more expensive (after conversion) to buy in Australia (and we have less sales tax!). And no longer being able to buy from the many wonderful independent stockists in the UK is to everyone's loss. It looks like Ebay is the only real choice for me now.
BTW: FWGK Dread: ~46 pounds ($70.50 AUD), inc. postage.
Compared to GWSM Dread: $74 AUD (I remember when these were $55 or something, and they have hardly changed the model)
Ie, if you buy from GW in Australia, you are a fool. Hell, the way this is going, I may actually end up buying all my mini's from FW...
Mr Mystery wrote:So, you get a response, and don't like what you hear, so the guy is a witch?
Erm.....PROFIT!
Nope, it's unsatisfactory because Mr Wells responded with a copy and paste letter that didn't address any of the points raised in the original letter, and because the base reasons for GW acts are also unsatisfactory no matter how you word it. Embargoes on NH retailers to "protect the Australian community" is idiotic at best.
Brunius wrote:I'm sorry, if you people have to take into account the price of tin/plastic, then why do competitors such as privateer press still price their products lower?
In short? They don't. Plus, GW have larger overheads. But you know, don't let facts get in the way of your bile, will you?
In short, many manufacturers still price their products a lot lower with significant overheads. Gw raising prices is a short term profit tactic to please their share-holders. In five years, they wont be happy as sales will have decreased to sufficiently cripple GW profit margins.
But hey, you're a GW apologist, there's no arguing with you. I'm afraid you're a lost cause if you can't see that what GW is doing will destroy them.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2011/06/21 09:57:19
Oh dear. you didn't actually read the response, did you?
GW, dependant on bricks and mortar stores to promote and recruit. European sellers, due to the exchange rate, can offer cheaper. Thus, Bricks and Mortar suffer. This affects recruitment, GW do something about it. This makes perfect sense, and rather scuppers the 'short term' gibberish people keep banging on about.
Define 'many manufacturers' please. Because there is no competition the size of GW, with anything like their overheads.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and you might want to look up 'apologist'.
An apologist re-interprets facts. Which is very much more your side of the table I fear. Plus, no doubt it's much easier to chuck around epithets than actually attempt to engage with someone, no?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/21 10:01:28
So it makes perfect sense that 10 Tactical Marines cost £40.50 instead of something more around the £23.00, cause it costs more than the product's sale value itself in these overheads?
Shouldn't that be sort of an alarming figure for most companies? Perhaps signaling to them that they may be using a rather inefficient system that appears to be draining money. I'm not expecting the same price here more around maybe 5-10 pounds more to cover this.
I did, hence why I find it unsatisfactory. Firstly, it's the same reasons they've used in the past, which I didn't find were acceptable to start with, secondly, many others have received suspiciously similar responses, hence it's a typical copy-paste PR stunt to avoid actually answering the points raised, and likely admitting the reasons aren't exactly good ones. GW, dependant on bricks and mortar, true. European sellers offer GW products cheaper and have a high demand simply because the prices in Australia are ridiculous. The market was how it was due to these European sellers making the products affordable. Currently, they WILL lose sales as people won't buy a box of terminators at double the price they sell them for in the UK. Essentially, they're strangling the market. It's maybe the only long-term move GW has made recently, but it's not a good one. Price rises are short term solutions, there;s been a fair few over the years. I retract 'many' as there aren't really that many. There are a few. Mantic jumps out immediately. Apologist - –noun 1. a person who makes a defense in speech or writing of a belief, idea, etc.
That's you. You're defending GW and that's fine, but I don't agree with anything you say as it's skimming over the obvious downfalls of GW 'solutions'.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/21 10:17:25
Yet who is writing these letters? People like you and me, Interweb Mooks.
Sorry if this sounds overly aggresive, but exactly why should the CEO of a market leading company give two hoots what business advice we offer? We don't have the experience, or anywhere near the knowledge. We can only speak from a purely personal point of view. Whilst it's great that Calvin actually wrote in (something I've been advocating for a long time, rather than just anonymous online whinging) it is utterly unreasonable to expect anything but a token response, and whether you agree or not, what he got was more than token.
And again, it strikes me that it's not so much that he avoided points, as people just plain don't like the response, well, see above. Sadly our opinions are uninformed, and don't really matter a great deal. I fear Calvin's opening mistake is to state that he's out, then list the reasons.
Think Dragons Den. They give their feedback, THEN declare they're out. Otherwise, your attempt as discussion simply becomes a statement, and as with most statements they veer into the realm of being rhetorical. And on the (loose) subject of Dragons Den, I bet should one of the Dragons write concerns to them, they'd get a more considered response, because unlike us, they too are successful buisness people, and thus actually know what they're on about.
These "Interweb Mooks" are also GW customers, that should at least garner some respect.
It doesn't take a business expert to see what GW are doing. Sure, you're going to respond by saying that I'm not one hence why I'm uninformed, which isn't exactly true. I'm informed by the posts of people with experience in economics, and I understand and agree with what they say.
Exactly, we don't like the response because we don't agree with the reasons behind GW's moves regardless of who or where it comes from or how it's worded.
I agree to an extent, he should have done what you said, perhaps they would have taken a little more thought about what he said. However, if they just see a wall of criticism they aren't going to take it seriously anyway. GW is of the mind that a few customers writing in represent only those few customers. What Calvin did was give them statistics, however inaccurate and novel they may seem, coming from an internet forum. It should have given them at least an over-view of how people are reacting.
Except Forums are not a good place to garner statistics.
Trust me, GW have access to more feedback than you think. And even in the post above, there is the impression that no matter GW's reasoning, it doesn't matter because your mind is already set. How then can the enter into any kind of discourse?