Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey guys,

just wanna know what you guys think the best kit is for an anti infantry capatain, preferably shooty or shooty/cc, but I know that for cc everyone says Relic Blade SS

thanks in advance

LDP

Relic Blade, Storm Bolter(or Combi weapon with an assault weapon or combi-plasma while on a bike), Auxiliary Grenade launcher.

Depending on what you are going up against the AGL adds an additional shot of either a Blast-lasgun, or a single, non-rending, Assault Cannon shot to your 2 Bolter shots. Additional shot is limited to Rapid-fire double-tap(or general pistol) range; but can really come in handy.

Adding a bike will allow for a single Plasmagun firing prior to assault, and a Twin-linked boltgun(not fired in addition to the aforesaid plasmagun), Toughness boost, and Speed enhancements.

Captains aren't really meant to be shooty(lack options), they are simply CC beatsticks, and that is pretty much all they are. They aren't even good at being min HQ choice, because a plain librarian is better at that. What are they good at? Unlocking bikes as troops and command squads.

You want a shooting HQ? Take a Master of the Forge with conversion beam (on bike if you want to move and fire), or a librarian with some shooting power.

Ok, so how sounds PP and PW?

PP + PW sounds bad. Most other choices are better.

PP + PW or PP + PF are usually options I take for a tac squad sgt. As suggested above, go storm bolter or combi-bolter/relic blade/AGL for captains.

SB / combi bolter denies the extra attack in cc though.

You could just take 2 combi weapons. You'll be terrible in CC, but you'll have flexibility. Combi-weapon+relic blade is probably the best option if you want him to have some shooting capabilities though.

Ok, well lets change the question, whats the best anti infantry captain for shooting, then assaulting?

lipsdapips wrote:SB / combi bolter denies the extra attack in cc though.

the reason for the SB/Combi weapon is the increased shots; the lack of bonus attack was already denied via the relic Blade.

If you wanted shooting and then assault with decent combat abilities; Go with one of these:

Bike, Paired lightning claws, AGL.

Or

Bike, PW+BP, AGL.

Both of the above preserve the 2 CCW bonus attack and use power weapons; the Dual Claw Captain is 15 points more expensive but gets the re-roll to wounds. Bike+AGL gives you 3 Shots at 12", 12-24" move, relentless, and the +1T.

I currently run a dual-Claw Jump-pack Captain with an AGL(10 points cheaper), but that is mostly because I had a jump pack HQ left over from last edition, he got the claws and AGL after my kids broke his arms off and lost the power axe he used to have.

Bike with hellfire rounds and relic blade. If you're not fielding bikes, command squads, or both, there is very little reason to take a generic Captain.

What would I use if I wanted an effective shoot - assault captain and command squad? I guess the company champion is a good investment here?

If points really are not a concern and you wanted that captain and command squad to be beasts in combat and decent in shooting, you might want to do something along these lines:

Captain on a bike, stormshield, hellfire rounds, auxiliary grenade launcher, artificer armour, lightning claw or power fist
Command squad on a bike, company standard, storm shields and either lightning claw or power fist.

You will end up with bolter shooting from the bikes as they all have twin-linked bolters and can move and shoot, and you'll end up in combat with T5, FNP, 3+/3++ saves and be a pain to move. I would not bother with a company champion, seeing as combat shields are really quite inferior to storm shields. You might want to go a mix of fists/claws, or take melta bombs on someone if you go all claws. (There was an analysis in a different thread that says claws are better with the rerolls to wound than a power weapon and pistol for the extra attack but I am too lazy to dig it up now)

Fetterkey wrote:Bike with hellfire rounds and relic blade. If you're not fielding bikes, command squads, or both, there is very little reason to take a generic Captain.

This would be my answer.

p-chan wrote:If points really are not a concern and you wanted that captain and command squad to be beasts in combat and decent in shooting, you might want to do something along these lines:

Captain on a bike, stormshield, hellfire rounds, auxiliary grenade launcher, artificer armour, lightning claw or power fist

Lemme stop you right there.

While I agree with giving the Command squad some Storm Shields and p-fists, I would not do so on the Captain.

Why would you pay 15 points + losing the bonus attack for +1 Invul save? He already has an Iron halo, so a 4++, for the same 15 points he can add an extra attack with 2 lightning claws(assuming you were already buying 1); or for free he can get the bonus attack with a PW+BP.

Furthermore, P-fists on ICs is never that good of a choice, especially when you want a CC-monster-type IC, going last means you just might already take 3 wounds before you ever get to swing(especially when he is attached to a 5-man bike squad).

Go with Vulcan, He has a Heavy Flamer and Relic Blade!

So now i'm thinking along the lines of captain with either two LCs, or BP/PP and PW or Vulcan with command squad with company champion, (for the PW, BP and combat shield.) and then three vets with...and heres where I get stuck Lightning claw and PP, Lightning claw and standard? and PW and PP? how sounds this? I should probably switch the standard out,

Just infantry in general? I'll throw my hat in with whoever said LC/LC+AGL. Or RB+combiflamer.

Not sure I'd even take a commandsquad to kill infantry, it's gonna get pricy if you want a good unit that's not on bikes... Especially if you go the land raider route. If I had to though, maybe a standard and some LCs. Company champion doesn't get the awesome rerolling challenge powers of Chapter champion so yeah.

lipsdapips wrote:So now i'm thinking along the lines of captain with either two LCs, or BP/PP and PW or Vulcan with command squad with company champion, (for the PW, BP and combat shield.) and then three vets with...and heres where I get stuck Lightning claw and PP, Lightning claw and standard? and PW and PP? how sounds this? I should probably switch the standard out,

Save yourself the points on PPs; seriously you have 30-45 points in PPs; pistols you are not likely to fire more than once per game. Factor in "gets hot" and you have a pretty clear waste of points.

I personally Hate Plasma Pistols because of their cost, I only ever take them on IG Sgts because they mesh well the plasmaguns in the units I take them in and cost 5 points less(even on units with the same BS as marines) but I still almost regret modelling them on

I see, so do you think captain with two LCs or Vulcan with command squad with company champion, and then two vets with Lightning claw and BP (maybe one PP? or storm bolter for the shooties?), and lastly a vet with Lightning claw and standard?

That is a complete and total waste of points.

Command squads equipped with CC weapons are worse and more expensive than terminators. The only thing to do with a foot command squad is to give them 4x plasmagun or even 4x meltagun.

Biker commands might do well with some CC equipment (I'll leave that advice for others since I have not used a biker list), but on foot, command squads are bad with CC upgrades.

hm.
4x Plasma seems the only effective way to go.

The last character that was actually GOOD at shooting in any significant way outside of Psychic Powers or Tau was in the previous Chaos codex. Poor Kai gun.

You just can't get heavy weapons or special weapons on characters beyond a plasma pistol for the most part. As much as people would love to field a Chapter Master with a Plasma Cannon or Assault Cannon, GW seems to hate that idea.

So what would anyone suggest for a captain/command squad for any infantry situation? (I'd like to use them off a land raider buy I guess that can't happen without spending too many points.

lipsdapips wrote:So what would anyone suggest for a captain/command squad for any infantry situation? (I'd like to use them off a land raider buy I guess that can't happen without spending too many points.

I'd keep it simple. Use 4x Plasmaguns in a Razorback so you can move into optimal position, dump out and rapid fire. Attach the Captain with a PP to the command squad for the extra shot (or combi plasma for two extra shots) and his relic blade will provide some protection against the ensuing assault. Optionally you could split off the Captain to boost a different squad. Between the vehicle, captain and squad you should be pumping up to 12 plasma shots into a specific target on the turn you need it.

Sounds good man! Thanks for the advice, so you're thinking along the lines of las/plas razorback, 4 plasma gun vets and a captain who should probably go elsewhere? Or maybe a PP and LC or PW?

I say two lightning claws. Many high initiative attacks that re-roll wounds and ignore armor.

Shooting is for a command squad as has already been stated.

I'd be careful about upgrading the razorback your command squad is riding around in. Its already a very juicy target considering the contents. I'd probably be inclined to leave it with just the TL hbolter to avoid losing more points since it will draw lots of fire anways. Don't want to make the "HIT THIS TARGET FIRST" sign its carrying around to also have a bullseye on it.

edit:

This is what i'd do
Captain w/relic blade + combiplas if there are points for it
4x plasmagun + apoth
basic razorback.

Then you need to make sure you have other targets in your army which present a more immediate threat, like 5 man tactical squads in las/plas or assault cannon razorbacks. Plug in some vindicators/predators/landspeeders and you have diverse targets and give difficult decisions on whether to bother with your basic razorback right away.

Sounds like a plan!
I think I may run the command squad in a razorback and then the captain with TL LCs with some termies in a LR and see what happens, thanks for all the help guys!
I think i've concluded:

4 vets with plasma guns + apoth w/ BP
captain with TL LCs
the reason i wanted a cc command squad was to utilise the 2 attacks, but there you go.

thanks again,

LDP

I,VE seen someone do command squad with each member on bike equipped with a plasma gun, thunder hammer and storm shield. It was pretty amusing