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I just got back in to war gaming last year. No where near a full army, I haven't even had a chance to play a game of the new 40k/fantasy editions. Then they did there embargo, Then they released "Fine Cast" which has its own set of problem and slap us in the face by gouging uis for higher prices then the metal models. since when did cheaper material = higher cost? Those two combine to make me unwilling to support a company which screws its customers around so much and has such a horrible method of running its buisness.

But enough of the GW. Turns out my FLGS has huge support for all things PP! I'm going in for a demo game on Sunday to try out Warmachine. What should i expect rules wise VS 2nd ed 40k and 5th ed fantasy (bot are the last versions i played)? Also whats the normal army size points wise?

Normal size is 35 to 50 points.

Platuan4th wrote:Normal size is 35 to 50 points.

Thanks for the info.

we did a breakdown of Warmachine basics from a 40k perspective on my blog, which you can find here:

http://www.captureandcontrol.com/2010/12/warmachine-101-game.html

Hope that helps, and welcome to the fold!

-Dis.

cor I dont know if its people In america but the normal size for most games over here (in my local clubs) has been 25 points, with occasional 15 or 35 pointers!

The standard games in my area are 35 points

disdainful wrote:we did a breakdown of Warmachine basics from a 40k perspective on my blog, which you can find here:

http://www.captureandcontrol.com/2010/12/warmachine-101-game.html

Hope that helps, and welcome to the fold!

-Dis.

Nice write up, very easy to understand your comparisons between the systems. I really like the importance of the individual soldier VS the unit as a whole. Seems to me that the game play will allow of more diverse tactics to be employed.


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Thanks for all points by area. seems getting a decent 25-35 point force will get me in to most games.

Going to be posting my GW stuff on the classifieds tonight after my GF wakes up and tells me what dark elves she wants to keep for painting.

Soverntear wrote:Nice write up, very easy to understand your comparisons between the systems. I really like the importance of the individual soldier VS the unit as a whole. Seems to me that the game play will allow of more diverse tactics to be employed.

The rules definitely allow for a much more precise game than you get with 40k, since it focuses harder on each model rather than the abstractions of units.

I've found in my store that a lot of the more competitive players initially went to WM/H for the stronger competition, and now that GW has been stumbling through some of their latest head-scratching moves, we're seeing a big influx of casual players making the switch as well.

-Dis.

I'm an avid Warmahordes enthusiast and own an extensive collection of the two factions that I play. I've basically rejected GW as a gaming company due to... well, all the things that make GW into GW.

So with that said, I have to caution you that WM/H is a very, very different gaming experience. It's much more granular, some warcasters are quantitatively better than others, and at the small point levels that I'm sure you'll inevitably start at, games can feel very 'rock paper scissors'.

The learning curve is also huge. Two beginning players running into each other have no problem bonking models and throwing dice, just like in GW games. Once a player gets even a little experience, though, they can learn their combos and synergies to pull tricks that look like 30-hit combos straight out of Street Fighter. You'll probably be on the receiving end until you in turn get some experience and figure out the counters.

Although overall balance is quite good (in my opinion) at the 35-50 pt levels the game is meant to be played at, different warcasters can make different units and warjacks do very different things. It definitely pays to do a bit of homework beforehand, look around the PP forums for advice, check out battle college (google it) for broad faction overviews.

I personally find WM/H to be a hugely rewarding game to play, very tactical, and it truly does not reward whichever player gets first turn throwing more 48" gun dice at the other player. As a player, though, you have to "work" harder, learning your list and knowing your opponent.

sourclams wrote:I'm an avid Warmahordes enthusiast and own an extensive collection of the two factions that I play. I've basically rejected GW as a gaming company due to... well, all the things that make GW into GW.

So with that said, I have to caution you that WM/H is a very, very different gaming experience. It's much more granular, some warcasters are quantitatively better than others, and at the small point levels that I'm sure you'll inevitably start at, games can feel very 'rock paper scissors'.

The learning curve is also huge. Two beginning players running into each other have no problem bonking models and throwing dice, just like in GW games. Once a player gets even a little experience, though, they can learn their combos and synergies to pull tricks that look like 30-hit combos straight out of Street Fighter. You'll probably be on the receiving end until you in turn get some experience and figure out the counters.

Although overall balance is quite good (in my opinion) at the 35-50 pt levels the game is meant to be played at, different warcasters can make different units and warjacks do very different things. It definitely pays to do a bit of homework beforehand, look around the PP forums for advice, check out battle college (google it) for broad faction overviews.

I personally find WM/H to be a hugely rewarding game to play, very tactical, and it truly does not reward whichever player gets first turn throwing more 48" gun dice at the other player. As a player, though, you have to "work" harder, learning your list and knowing your opponent.

That post is so solid it should be an article. Sums up our groups foray into Warmahordes.

disdainful wrote:I've found in my store that a lot of the more competitive players initially went to WM/H for the stronger competition, and now that GW has been stumbling through some of their latest head-scratching moves, we're seeing a big influx of casual players making the switch as well.

-Dis.

I'm curious, how has that worked out?

I just made the jump as well. I still have my WFB & W40K armies, but I will probably not buy any new models in the near future. I will just settle on painting what I have.

I just got my first 15 point faction, and I am looking forward to getting games in. But from what I see so far I like it a lot.

Warmahordes seems to have a much better competitive arena. PP seems to have a great tournament system in place with Steamroller, and PP also supports and encourages multiple leagues.

On the modeling/painting side I like not having to stare at 50+ model units to paint, this give me more time to give each model the attention it deserves. But there seems to be less room for conversions as a whole in Warmahordes. If you are not a painter/converter than this is probably a non-issue.

sourclams wrote:I'm an avid Warmahordes enthusiast and own an extensive collection of the two factions that I play. I've basically rejected GW as a gaming company due to... well, all the things that make GW into GW.

So with that said, I have to caution you that WM/H is a very, very different gaming experience. It's much more granular, some warcasters are quantitatively better than others, and at the small point levels that I'm sure you'll inevitably start at, games can feel very 'rock paper scissors'.

The learning curve is also huge. Two beginning players running into each other have no problem bonking models and throwing dice, just like in GW games. Once a player gets even a little experience, though, they can learn their combos and synergies to pull tricks that look like 30-hit combos straight out of Street Fighter. You'll probably be on the receiving end until you in turn get some experience and figure out the counters.

Although overall balance is quite good (in my opinion) at the 35-50 pt levels the game is meant to be played at, different warcasters can make different units and warjacks do very different things. It definitely pays to do a bit of homework beforehand, look around the PP forums for advice, check out battle college (google it) for broad faction overviews.

I personally find WM/H to be a hugely rewarding game to play, very tactical, and it truly does not reward whichever player gets first turn throwing more 48" gun dice at the other player. As a player, though, you have to "work" harder, learning your list and knowing your opponent.

I'm ok with having involved game play that requires forethought and knowledge of the system of rules in place. Thanks for the write up, all the info I'm getting is making warmachine sound like a god send. I have decided on Khador as my first faction, the G/F is going Retribution. Starting small with the battlegroup and a random warcaster / 2 jacks for my g/f's side(based 100% on looks lol). I will look in to the other sites over the next week and I'm playing my first game on Sunday.

It's a better game, I'd argue 40k is more fun/I enjoy it more as Warmahordes feels a bit like magic the gathering but with minatures.

Don't do it! Warmachine is a great game with solid rules. The company actually treats its customers decently! You don't want that. Get back in your gimp suit, slave.

Noisy_Marine wrote:Don't do it! Warmachine is a great game with solid rules. The company actually treats its customers decently! You don't want that. Get back in your gimp suit, slave.

LMAO love the gimp suit reference

I'm not abandoning 40K, but i am being drawn to Warmachine too..

Especially since (as far as I can tell) the factions are balanced againsty each other, with no glaring posterchild army that has rules/points values that beat all other armies.

Now to decide between Khador and Menoth...

Khador is primarily about self sufficient models, along with a rather large of haste buffs, a few defense buffs, and various stuff to make you hit unnecessarily hard. Really high armor countered by low speed on its warjacks, with infantry varying between squishy but ridiculously hard to hit and easy to hit yet a pain in the ass to break armor.

Menoth generally has lots of inexpensive models with somewhat lackluster stats, but a huge amount of ways to buff said stats. They're also the faction of No: No shooting them, no knocking them down, no freezing them, no casting spells on them, etc. Oh, and they love setting things on fire.

Phototoxin wrote:It's a better game, I'd argue 40k is more fun/I enjoy it more as Warmahordes feels a bit like magic the gathering but with minatures.

I think 'fun' is purely subjective, so it'll depend on the person who's playing.

As to Warmachine/Hordes being like M:TG, I'll agree with that - partially.

The game does have some crazy combos that can get you the win, but there are always counters to those combos. Warmachine/Hordes also does not require you to purchase new models (cards) with every release to stay competitive. Take Wrath, for example. You could very well ignore every release in the book, because everything's that come before it is perfectly viable. Not me, though. Harkevich is just too good, especially with Demolishers and Destroyers! And Damiano makes me want to start up a Steelhead 'Pike-and-Shotte' army.

Wrath was a very, very solid release, but I find myself gravitating to the initial Prime release models more and more. I got off a full unit purge with Bile Thralls. It was just funny. Usually I get two or three out of the six to purge in a game, spread over two turns. This time I managed to get a single turn with all 6 purging with the facing set so their purges didn't kill the next guy who was going to purge.

It was glorious.

frozenwastes wrote:Wrath was a very, very solid release, but I find myself gravitating to the initial Prime release models more and more.

Which is one of the reasons I like PP. New releases supplement what already exists, but do not really replace anything.

I'm tempted by Hordes...

Especially the giant alligators/turtle faction.

Can someone post a sample list built using that faction?

Barnabas
Wrong Eye and Snapjaw
Spitter X3 (the turtle)
Bull snapper
swamp gobbers
feralgiest
thrullg

this 35 point list was played against me in our Warmahordes league. as a Cygnar player, the gators are tough to deal with as the only thing i could shoot at was his swamp gobbers and thrullg and they always had concealment. The turtles have an amazing ranged attack and Barnabas' feat knocks down everything within 12 inches of him. all in all a tough list that looked fun to play. Wasn't much fun for my Cygnar though.

Alpharius wrote:I'm tempted by Hordes...

Especially the giant alligators/turtle faction.

Can someone post a sample list built using that faction?

Which ones it the alligator/turtle faction?

I'm surprised to see the Feralgeist and Thrullg in there. Did they do much?

The Blindwater Congregation.
If I was building them (which I will be, soonish) I'd go for something like:
Barnabas (+6)
Bull Snapper (3)
Wrastler (9)
Ironback Spitter (8)
Max Gatormen (9)
Wrong Eye and Snapjaw (9)
Croak Hunter (2)
Feralgeist (1)

Pros: Lots of beefy warbeasts, lots of amphibious models to make use of the free swamps and Swamp Pit spell. Lots of medium bases for screening.
Cons: Low model count. Lacking in some regards with speed boosts and ranged.

Mostly I'd get that list because I like all those models though

Edit: For 1 point the Feralgeist is really, really awesome.

Soverntear wrote:I just got back in to war gaming last year. No where near a full army, I haven't even had a chance to play a game of the new 40k/fantasy editions. Then they did there embargo, Then they released "Fine Cast" which has its own set of problem and slap us in the face by gouging uis for higher prices then the metal models. since when did cheaper material = higher cost? Those two combine to make me unwilling to support a company which screws its customers around so much and has such a horrible method of running its buisness.

But enough of the GW. Turns out my FLGS has huge support for all things PP! I'm going in for a demo game on Sunday to try out Warmachine. What should i expect rules wise VS 2nd ed 40k and 5th ed fantasy (bot are the last versions i played)? Also whats the normal army size points wise?

Different then anything you've played with 40K.

Plays crisper and more involved. There is a little issue with a couple of finer points, but other then that, You learn fast to keep your caster safe, and screen them with a good infantry squad.

Game also favors the attacker, and agressive play, In asmuch as it attracts TFG's.

Have fun, but know what your getting into with your own judgement after seeing how it goes for yourself.



I like it, but not for the same reasons as everyone else. I already KNEW about the RPG stuff way back in the day when it came out as a D and D suppliment.
I fell in on the thick RPG books and really liked thier direction. When I found the Miniatures, I thought the same thing I did when I first started reading the Red, Blue and Green books of D and D. That they looked exactly like the illustrations and fit the background material of the game.

First got into it, I was excited in the same way you were when you picked up your first RPG or Minis game that you enjoyed. I started playing it with a few of the choicer of those TFG types- I was put off with thier crowd. SOme of them took rules lawer to another level and really put off wanting to play any other games with them.

Hordes came out, it was like the advanced D and D, in playing OUTSIDE the dungeon crawl. Good game, but if your not a Basic Warmachine player it might seem different.



All in all a good game, but don't kid yourself that it's cheaper then Warhammer/ Warhammer 40K.

Da Boss wrote:The Blindwater Congregation.
If I was building them (which I will be, soonish) I'd go for something like:
Barnabas (+6)
Bull Snapper (3)
Wrastler (9)
Ironback Spitter (8)
Max Gatormen (9)
Wrong Eye and Snapjaw (9)
Croak Hunter (2)
Feralgeist (1)

Pros: Lots of beefy warbeasts, lots of amphibious models to make use of the free swamps and Swamp Pit spell. Lots of medium bases for screening.
Cons: Low model count. Lacking in some regards with speed boosts and ranged.

Mostly I'd get that list because I like all those models though

Edit: For 1 point the Feralgeist is really, really awesome.

Thanks for the list!

Does "Max Gatormen" mean a blister of 3, or two blisters of 3 or...something else?

Box of three plus two blisters of one. Max unit for Gatormen (and all non-Skorne heavy infantry) is five models.


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AgeOfEgos wrote:I'm surprised to see the Feralgeist and Thrullg in there. Did they do much?

The Feralgeist is extremely useful for its points. It basically turns a dead warbeast into a giant super solo, while the Thrullg is the Hordes equivalent of eEiryss: A great utility model for stripping focus and upkeep spells off models. The Thrullg is especially useful in Blindwater, as there's plenty of medium bases to protect it from being shot right off the bat.

Grot 6 wrote:

Soverntear wrote:I just got back in to war gaming last year. No where near a full army, I haven't even had a chance to play a game of the new 40k/fantasy editions. Then they did there embargo, Then they released "Fine Cast" which has its own set of problem and slap us in the face by gouging uis for higher prices then the metal models. since when did cheaper material = higher cost? Those two combine to make me unwilling to support a company which screws its customers around so much and has such a horrible method of running its buisness.

But enough of the GW. Turns out my FLGS has huge support for all things PP! I'm going in for a demo game on Sunday to try out Warmachine. What should i expect rules wise VS 2nd ed 40k and 5th ed fantasy (bot are the last versions i played)? Also whats the normal army size points wise?

Different then anything you've played with 40K.

Plays crisper and more involved. There is a little issue with a couple of finer points, but other then that, You learn fast to keep your caster safe, and screen them with a good infantry squad.

Game also favors the attacker, and agressive play, In asmuch as it attracts TFG's.

Have fun, but know what your getting into with your own judgement after seeing how it goes for yourself.



I like it, but not for the same reasons as everyone else. I already KNEW about the RPG stuff way back in the day when it came out as a D and D suppliment.
I fell in on the thick RPG books and really liked thier direction. When I found the Miniatures, I thought the same thing I did when I first started reading the Red, Blue and Green books of D and D. That they looked exactly like the illustrations and fit the background material of the game.

First got into it, I was excited in the same way you were when you picked up your first RPG or Minis game that you enjoyed. I started playing it with a few of the choicer of those TFG types- I was put off with thier crowd. SOme of them took rules lawer to another level and really put off wanting to play any other games with them.

Hordes came out, it was like the advanced D and D, in playing OUTSIDE the dungeon crawl. Good game, but if your not a Basic Warmachine player it might seem different.



All in all a good game, but don't kid yourself that it's cheaper then Warhammer/ Warhammer 40K.

Again a great point of view. thanks everyone for being informative in your write ups. I'm sure they are helping others decide as much as its helping me.

Having watched a bunch of demos and games on youtube, the initial system seems so much more streamlined then WH/40k and I like how all units seem able to pull there own weight. The kick down the door style is also somehting im a fan of. sure im going to encounter rules laywers and power gamers. I run Palladium books Rifts as my main RPG of choice, believe me when I tell you I've seen munchkin power gaming rule breaking combos that would put ANY other system out there to shame. I also played MTG, that game has more rules douche bags and annoying ass hats then anything in the world combined

Now on to price, how can you say its not cheaper? form the 50 point lists ive seen on forums they all come in $100+ cheaper then a 2k force in warhammer. That being said it could be a lot more expensive then WH/40k and I would still jump ship due to the way GW treats its customers and retailers.