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There has to be SOME line drawn to telling people nice job. It's one thing if those awful marines were painted by your 4 year old. But if you are old enough to post on these forums, you are old enough to take proper criticism of your work.

Personally I would rather here what I can work on rather than someone telling me that I did well. I know how well I CAN paint and I know how well I WANT to paint. I still have a ways to go.

But here it seems that some random person can post what is easily the worst paint work I've ever seen, and yet some tool says "nice job". This isn't the special Olympics. Not everyone deserves a trophy just for participating.

i completely agree with you, i havent been posting here long, but i've been a reader for quite alot longer than i've been posting and i have noticed that there are quite a few threads where people tell them they've done a great job when really it would be better to tell them the truth, things like the paint is to thick and you're obscuring detail or any kind of advice is what most people are after.

If i posted up some of my minis and i just got a 'good job' reply i'd be very disappointed, i know my painting standard and i know its rubbish so i'd rather get advice to make it better.

I think people are just afraid of discouraging people from painting.

Some people just aren't cut out for painting. Just like I'm not cut out for riding motorcycles(I can post pics of the result of me trying if you like).

wow way not to aim a post at me im not the one who said they were good i just said i spent a long time on them and also you shouldnt make fun of the special olympics

When do i stop complementing? when it was obviously a halfassed effort and is not up to the basic standards of thinning paint, priming your model, and having a basic level of brush control. Some people put up stuff (and yes, sadly they are mostly marines for some reason) that looks smeared with finger paints and should be called out on it, dakka is a great resource they clearly have access to that they have not used.
If I leave a comment I always try to provide constructive criticism along with kudos, and always hope for the same from others. As encouraging as "good job" is, it's still no more help in progressing someone's talents as "i don't like that at all". Comments like " I like your brush control and smooth coats, but that neon green and blue-gray do not look good together to me" or "I like what you were going for but the paint is a bit thick and so many colors make a distracting composition, try sticking with just the green and black with red trim." are much more helpful.

I never once aimed this at anyone. Nor did I in any way "make fun" of the special Olympics. I merely stated that everyone in them gets a medal for participating. Painting(like junior sports) should not run by the same rules reserved for the mentally handicapped.

If your brain is fully functional then the big boy rules apply.

so you see my marines say they are awful and then make this post coincedense i think not

Remember what I said about the spelling? Still applies. And whatever sparked me to write this thread I assure you is not the first offense I've seen.

However, it would be rude to outright post pics or link threads that I think to be sub par.

The fault here is NOT with those who paint poorly, it lies with those who are coddling them and telling them blatant lies about their own work.

Perhaps the dakka painting crowd are the 'nice guys'. Try posting some stupid army in lists or tactics and see how long it takes for somebody to rip you apart.

Rbb wrote:Perhaps the dakka painting crowd are the 'nice guys'. Try posting some stupid army in lists or tactics and see how long it takes for somebody to rip you apart.

I agree. Painting and List Writing should be treated the same. Both take practice and time to hone. At some point we need to be honest with people instead of encouraging efforts in the wrong direction.

Sometimes even if it looks like a 4 yr old painted it, it might be because it's the best a person can do, no matter how many tutorials they've read, how many years they've tried to improve their skill... it's the best that they can do, and they are obviously proud of their work and want to share with the community.... and you should compliment them on the nice job that they've done considering their skill level... I mean if they said they were aspiring to be Golden Demon winners, then yes, you should criticize and even say what they have is not upto snuff... but if the guy is just happy to show off his paintjob because he likes it and is looking for simple comments... don't criticize as if you were a Golden Demon judge...

No one should be proud of something they aren't good at. I don't flaunt my high school diploma and all the D's I graduated with. Granted that was mostly from being lazy and skating by, but I am not proud of it.

If your best is terrible, find something else. Have a friend or commissioner paint for you.

broadcast wrote:Sometimes even if it looks like a 4 yr old painted it, it might be because it's the best a person can do, no matter how many tutorials they've read, how many years they've tried to improve their skill... it's the best that they can do, and they are obviously proud of their work and want to share with the community.... and you should compliment them on the nice job that they've done considering their skill level... I mean if they said they were aspiring to be Golden Demon winners, then yes, you should criticize and even say what they have is not upto snuff... but if the guy is just happy to show off his paintjob because he likes it and is looking for simple comments... don't criticize as if you were a Golden Demon judge...

i agree totally if someone is proud of what they did and dont ask for criticism then dont deal it out

The ENTIRE point of posting pics is to receive feedback. Hell CMON has a rating system whether people want feedback or not.

If you don't want feedback, post on a website that doesn't allow commenting on things.

Breeezy wrote:

broadcast wrote:Sometimes even if it looks like a 4 yr old painted it, it might be because it's the best a person can do, no matter how many tutorials they've read, how many years they've tried to improve their skill... it's the best that they can do, and they are obviously proud of their work and want to share with the community.... and you should compliment them on the nice job that they've done considering their skill level... I mean if they said they were aspiring to be Golden Demon winners, then yes, you should criticize and even say what they have is not upto snuff... but if the guy is just happy to show off his paintjob because he likes it and is looking for simple comments... don't criticize as if you were a Golden Demon judge...

i agree totally if someone is proud of what they did and dont ask for criticism then dont deal it out

Fishing for compliments is something I disaprove of.

aerethan wrote:Some people just aren't cut out for painting. Just like I'm not cut out for riding motorcycles

That's bull. I don't believe you.

aerethan wrote:(I can post pics of the result of me trying if you like).

Fine. Do it. Prove me wrong.



On topic:
I agree. I always try to be positive in my constructive criticisms but, just like I won't attack someone's effort, I won't give them empty compliments.


Eric

Not sure why this is an issue.
If you have some constructive criticism then no one is going to complain.

If someone else just wants to provide encouragement don't see why that is such a big deal.

As implied above, not everyone is a natural born Gold Daemon standard painter. "Good job" can simply acknowledge the current standard of the modeller.

aerethan wrote:No one should be proud of something they aren't good at. I don't flaunt my high school diploma and all the D's I graduated with. Granted that was mostly from being lazy and skating by, but I am not proud of it.

If your best is terrible, find something else. Have a friend or commissioner paint for you.

I couldn't disagree more. If your bad at painting but find enjoyment in it, KEEP PRACTICING AND GET BETTER. If someone reads every article on the web and buys every book and dvd on miniature painting, it wont make their first model a masterpiece. You have to practice and that's all there is to it.

aerethan wrote:

Rbb wrote:Perhaps the dakka painting crowd are the 'nice guys'. Try posting some stupid army in lists or tactics and see how long it takes for somebody to rip you apart.

I agree. Painting and List Writing should be treated the same. Both take practice and time to hone. At some point we need to be honest with people instead of encouraging efforts in the wrong direction.

I would like to point out that even with list building, the most constructive responses are not "Dear Emperor, your list looks like the mentally handicapped took your codex, smashed it against a few models, and sneezed really hard." They are posts that take each part of the list and breaks down to why it does or does not work, what it could work better with, and where you can go using their list as a starting point.

There are also posts where people genuinely should toss the list and rethink what they're trying to accomplish. That also is best replied to in a non-derogatory manner, but coupled with a valid explanation of why. In neither of these cases are the responses "That looks great!", but they're also not discouraging.

aerethan wrote:There has to be SOME line drawn to telling people nice job. It's one thing if those awful marines were painted by your 4 year old. But if you are old enough to post on these forums, you are old enough to take proper criticism of your work.

Indeed. However, 'proper criticsm' doesn't require rudeness.

Painting for many is a very personal thing. So while criticsm for the purposes of helping people improve is welcome, it should be polite. Just pointing out that you think something is badly done accomplishes nothing other than to put down the person who did it, and can in fact serve to discourage people from trying to improve.

So, ultimately, the time to stop saying 'Nice work' is whenever you feel like not commenting.

Personally I would rather here what I can work on rather than someone telling me that I did well.

There's no reason that a comment can't include both.

^^^ WTF is up with that graphic picture of a motorcycle injury? Why did you post this here? What does it prove?

Breeezy wrote:
i agree totally if someone is proud of what they did and dont ask for criticism then dont deal it out

If you didn't want criticism you wouldn't post it on the Internet for everyone to see. Even if you're an accomplished painter, you should value negative feedback if it will help you improve. Nobody is helped by hearing "That's great!" or "That sucks!" without any accompanying critique saying why or how it's good or bad or how to make it better. The reason my painting went from middling and average to very good is because I paid attention to the critiques and criticism I was getting. Yeah, it hurts to be told your work is bad, as an artist I'm more than a little familiar with dejection. It's the only way to get better though.

There are a handful of posters in the painting forum (you know who you are) who will comment on almost every single thread with just "looks great" and move on. They'll say that whether it's a Golden Daemon winning Space Marine or a bunch of Tyranids from Hive Fleet Tankbrush who are painted with housepaint and nail polish. While it's a comforting ego boost to hear that, it's not going to help your painting. Personally though, I'd rather fight against a badly painted army than a grey horde, since it at least shows my opponent of the day is trying to embrace that aspect, my favorite aspect; of the hobby.

aerethan wrote:No one should be proud of something they aren't good at.

They can be proud of trying something new. They can be proud of improvement, even if they still have a ways to go. They can be proud of sharing something into which they have poured their time and effort.

'Good' is rather subjective. There's no reason to put someone down just because your personal 'good' is different to theirs.

Perhaps it is because painting is my main hobby that I get somewhat peeved when someone posts something terrible and then are complimented on it.

People are spending good money on their models, and it pains me to see them painted with the tank brush as SRM said.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
EDIT: SRM, MagikalMemories wanted to see them as proof that I can't ride a bike.

Doubt if I would value negative feedback tbh
"Your work sucks" isn't going to help anyone.

Constructive criticism is not the same as negative feedback.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Doubt if I would value negative feedback tbh
"Your work sucks" isn't going to help anyone.

Constructive criticism is not the same as negative feedback.

Agreed.

I'm not saying to give negative feedback. But saying "nice job" isn't helping anyone to improve. I realize I'm an ass, especially about this. I'm fine with that and generally I leave well enough alone.

aerethan wrote:Perhaps it is because painting is my main hobby that I get somewhat peeved when someone posts something terrible and then are complimented on it.

People are spending good money on their models, and it pains me to see them painted with the tank brush as SRM said.

Perhaps you should worry less about what others do with their money and their models and more about what you do with yours. I can't fathom why you would get peeved that somebody whose work isn't up to your standard gets complemented for their work.

Brother SRM wrote:^^^ WTF is up with that graphic picture of a motorcycle injury? Why did you post this here? What does it prove?

Breeezy wrote:
i agree totally if someone is proud of what they did and dont ask for criticism then dont deal it out

If you didn't want criticism you wouldn't post it on the Internet for everyone to see. Even if you're an accomplished painter, you should value negative feedback if it will help you improve. Nobody is helped by hearing "That's great!" or "That sucks!" without any accompanying critique saying why or how it's good or bad or how to make it better. The reason my painting went from middling and average to very good is because I paid attention to the critiques and criticism I was getting. Yeah, it hurts to be told your work is bad, as an artist I'm more than a little familiar with dejection. It's the only way to get better though.

There are a handful of posters in the painting forum (you know who you are) who will comment on almost every single thread with just "looks great" and move on. They'll say that whether it's a Golden Daemon winning Space Marine or a bunch of Tyranids from Hive Fleet Tankbrush who are painted with housepaint and nail polish. While it's a comforting ego boost to hear that, it's not going to help your painting. Personally though, I'd rather fight against a badly painted army than a grey horde, since it at least shows my opponent of the day is trying to embrace that aspect, my favorite aspect; of the hobby.

i dont mind if someone criticises my work but when they go out of their way not only to be rude about it but post an entire topic on it thats when it gets annoying

I agree 100% with Aerethan. On a spriting forum I was a member on, it was a tough environment. Complements were earned, not given out. Criticism was rare. Even a sincere insult is criticism. If someone tells you it sucks, then it sucks. Figure out how to make it better. Granted, we are more polite on this board so I know that wont happen. But still, People posting should EXPECT criticism on their armies, not compliments.