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Hey guys,

Just walked into my LGS (Games Workshop, Courtenay Place Wellington) and saw 6 kids, 2-4 years younger than me, who have been playing for 3 or 4 thimes longer than I have (been doing this for 3 months, have 900 points in total Eldar, FULLY PAINTED) running 3 games at 1500 points each and only one of them had more than 3 minis fully painted, the rest was a sea of unpainted, horrific grey.

Is this a common phenomenon where the game is more important than the hobby? Or is it a phase they grow out of? I've never fielded more than a single mini unpainted, even after only 3 months.

Help me understand!

Just matter of different opinions.
Some are into warhammer for painting such as you.
Some are into warhammer for gaming such as me.

Thats really all there is to it.

There are a lot of different kinds of people in the hobby. Some totally love the game itself but really dislike to paint. For others painting comes first and the actual game comes later.
I love seeing fully painted armies because it just looks awesome, but a lot of people just really do not have the time or skill, or just can't be bothered to do that.
None of my armies are fully painted... Yet!

EldarN00b wrote:Is this a common phenomenon where the game is more important than the hobby? Or is it a phase they grow out of? I've never fielded more than a single mini unpainted, even after only 3 months.

Help me understand!

It's something common to the entire hobby. Some people don't like painting, some don't care if their army is painted, some people (like me) paint at a really glacial pace. Get used to seeing unpainted models and even unpainted armies, you'll see them a lot.

Painting is the most boring, painful, and slow part of the entire hobby for me. I much prefer converting and playing, and I'd rather not waste time on painting.

Irdiumstern wrote:Painting is the most boring, painful, and slow part of the entire hobby for me. I much prefer converting and playing, and I'd rather not waste time on painting.

I will say, if you've got no real care for your your army looks, there's always shortcuts. For example, colour priming, picking out details and metallics, then dipping is a really fast way to get a table quality army.

Irdiumstern wrote:Painting is the most boring, painful, and slow part of the entire hobby for me. I much prefer converting and playing, and I'd rather not waste time on painting.

Exactly, not only is painting time consuming and not fun, it LOWERS the resale value.
So logically speaking, why would i put effort into something counter productive?

-Loki- wrote:

Irdiumstern wrote:Painting is the most boring, painful, and slow part of the entire hobby for me. I much prefer converting and playing, and I'd rather not waste time on painting.

I will say, if you've got no real care for your your army looks, there's always shortcuts. For example, colour priming, picking out details and metallics, then dipping is a really fast way to get a table quality army.

The thing is, I do care what my army looks like. They're all heavily converted just to look better, usually. However, my painting skills are generally bad, so a simple basecoat usually looks better to me than a bad attempt at painting. Mind you, I've been getting better, but in general, that's how things have been going.

This thread again? Well, I suppose it Has been almost a full week now, so we were probably due for one.

Irdiumstern wrote:Painting is the most boring, painful, and slow part of the entire hobby for me. I much prefer converting and playing, and I'd rather not waste time on painting.

In the end, that pretty much kills the hobby. The hobby is built around patience, can't they at least paint flat colours? I'll respect them for that, it takes 3 hours to flat base an entire squad.

I participate for the game as well but I believe that it should be done properly.

There are probably a hundred other threads dealing with this very topic. If things in this thread go the way they usually go, there will be flames flying all around. To summarize, there will be people telling you how you should enjoy your hobby, people telling you how the hobby used to be enjoyed, and people calling the non-painted army crowd lazy for not painting. They'll offer suggestions on how easy it is to do a three color tabletop standard, while missing the point that some people just don't consider painting part of their hobby.

augustus5 wrote:There are probably a hundred other threads dealing with this very topic. If things in this thread go the way they usually go, there will be flames flying all around. To summarize, there will be people telling you how you should enjoy your hobby, people telling you how the hobby used to be enjoyed, and people calling the non-painted army crowd lazy for not painting. They'll offer suggestions on how easy it is to do a three color tabletop standard, while missing the point that some people just don't consider painting part of their hobby.

Point is, it's not THEIR hobby, it's A HOBBY. It's like playing paintball but you're not really into the whole shooting and tactics thing, so you run around the woods in your underwear carrying an empty paintball gun. I'm not saying it's not 100% ok to field an unpainted army, if you're just starting out, fine then, but don't keep on buying NZ$50+ models just to have them represent a statline on the field for months on end, 1 model a weekend is your speed? Fine by me, but stop incessantly fielding 500 points+ completely unpainted . Might as well field 25mm cardboard cutouts representing the size of a base if that's how you see your miniatures.

EldarN00b wrote:

augustus5 wrote:There are probably a hundred other threads dealing with this very topic. If things in this thread go the way they usually go, there will be flames flying all around. To summarize, there will be people telling you how you should enjoy your hobby, people telling you how the hobby used to be enjoyed, and people calling the non-painted army crowd lazy for not painting. They'll offer suggestions on how easy it is to do a three color tabletop standard, while missing the point that some people just don't consider painting part of their hobby.

Point is, it's not THEIR hobby, it's A HOBBY. It's like playing paintball but you're not really into the whole shooting and tactics thing, so you run around the woods in your underwear carrying an empty paintball gun. I'm not saying it's not 100% ok to field an unpainted army, if you're just starting out, fine then, but don't keep on buying NZ$50+ models just to have them represent a statline on the field for months on end, 1 model a weekend is your speed? Fine by me, but stop incessantly fielding 500 points+ completely unpainted . Might as well field 25mm cardboard cutouts representing the size of a base if that's how you see your miniatures.

I wrote:...there will be people telling you how you should enjoy your hobby...

I'm like friggin' Nostradamas around here. Time to go pick out some lottery numbers!

EldarN00b wrote:Might as well field 25mm cardboard cutouts representing the size of a base if that's how you see your miniatures.

You sure you haven't done one of these threads before?

Maybe you should just play tourneys where they have a rule that armies must be painted.

GW always used to say you could only play games in their shops with painted minis. Last I heard it was there must be visible progress on your army from last time but that was ages ago so it may have changed. I prefer my independant store and haven't been to GW in years.

Howard A Treesong wrote:You sure you haven't done one of these threads before?

I'm pretty sure. I thought there might be some others but not in the numbers that people have been suggesting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

obsidianaura wrote:Maybe you should just play tourneys where they have a rule that armies must be painted.

GW always used to say you could only play games in their shops with painted minis

Not true. I ALWAYS see a sea of unpainted minis in the store.

You're making me feel bad that my army isn't fully painted.

It does to an extent bother me. And even more so that I'm really just one pot of paint away and another brutal painting session of doing just that.

EldarN00b wrote:
Point is, it's not THEIR hobby, it's A HOBBY. It's like playing paintball but you're not really into the whole shooting and tactics thing, so you run around the woods in your underwear carrying an empty paintball gun.

miniature gaming not like playing paintball at all, for a start we apply paint in much smaller and more controlled amounts...

The thing about paintballing is that 99.99% of people go shooting each other with paintball guns because they enjoy shooting people with paintball guns, I'm not trying to generalise here (and will admit i'm not exactly a paintball expert) but paintballing is more of a single-facet hobby (i.e. if you weren't into shooting people with a paintball gun you probably wouldn't join a paintballing team).

On the other hand, miniature gaming is a multi-faceted hobby, some people like the miniatures, some people like the gaming, and some crazy people like the miniatures AND the gaming. But you can't really force people to enjoy both.

A more correct paintballing analogy would be to say that some people like to shoot, but don't enjoy tactics so run around popping off shots like Rambo in a rainforest, other people enjoy carefully planning strategies and a well thought-out plan is more rewarding to them than the kills they rack up, and some people enjoy both a cunning plan and a massive kill count...

Personally I enjoy both aspects of the hobby equally, but my army is mostly unpainted because I do not have a lot of spare time to invest in spending hours painting each model, so to prevent me getting hobby lethargy and stuffing it all in a box in the attic I allow myself to play with unpainted miniatures, because otherwise I would be retired before I play another game of 40K.

YES it is awesome when you see both armies painted to decent standards facing off on amazingly crafted terrain, but we must accept that others do not enjoy the hobby for the same reasons we do, otherwise we won't get much hobby done at all

I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just trying to get an idea of where the community stands on this issue. There's nothing wrong with not having a fully painted army, hell, all of our armies are works in progress. I'm just sick of seeing people start in the way I did and just add to their army, but not paint each unit as they get it. Last thing everyone needs is a sea of unpainted masses staring down on them, thus I feel for beginner 'Nid and Ork players. I just think that it reflects a mindset in the hobby that shows a lack of appreciation for the work that Fluff writers and Sculptors put into the whole thing, and to me, that dishonours the people who put their heart and souls into this hobby.

Sorry for sounding depressing. But it IS the day before Friday.

To be fair the OP only has 35 posts so go easy on the poor chap

Eldarnoob, as stated this is an old chestnut that has been well and truly roasted in the ensuing flames by now.
Augustus 5 has summed it up pretty well.

It is all ye need know on the subject

Luna
but you are a dab hand at the painting malarkey
Get back to the paintstation IMMEDIATELY and no more excuses!

And see here. Lunahound's work is beautiful. Mine sums of "Table top quality" at beerhammer games.

I have a Hitler complex and cannot paint eyes for the -life- of me. My insecurity and rage will one day make me pursue the path of being a geneticist and splice horse,man and bear genes into the Bearataur and launch a campaign against mankind.

This topic recurs every few months.

My view is that the point of playing games miniature wargames is partly for the attractiveness of the models, which obviously is enhanced by nice paint jobs, terrain and so on.

Competitive wargames can be played perfectly well with cardboard counters and maps. I do play wargames and boardgame generally, as well as tabletop.

Some people upgrade the components in their boardgames for extra visual appeal. For example, if you play Agricola -- a farming game -- you can replace the standard components with little pigs and carrots and stuff.

LunaHound wrote:

Irdiumstern wrote:Painting is the most boring, painful, and slow part of the entire hobby for me. I much prefer converting and playing, and I'd rather not waste time on painting.

Exactly, not only is painting time consuming and not fun, it LOWERS the resale value.
So logically speaking, why would i put effort into something counter productive?

Because I'm playing a game I love and not treating my armies as a FOTM MtG deck to be chopped and changed at every opportunity?

Aduro wrote:This thread again? Well, I suppose it Has been almost a full week now, so we were probably due for one.

I should have known I would get ninja'd, lol.

So, here's the thing: last time I played 40k I got tired of seeing my army unpainted, mostly because I didn't want other people like the OP to get upset or judge me because of it, and I resolved to never play another game of 40k until I had at least made some progress.

I haven't played a game of 40k in over a year.

Which is better, having kids at the store playing unpainted armies, or having an empty store?

Phototoxin wrote:Because I'm playing a game I love and not treating my armies as a FOTM MtG deck to be chopped and changed at every opportunity?

Because no one would play MTG for fun! Never!

EldarN00b wrote:Hey guys,

Just walked into my LGS (Games Workshop, Courtenay Place Wellington) and saw 6 kids, 2-4 years younger than me, who have been playing for 3 or 4 thimes longer than I have (been doing this for 3 months, have 900 points in total Eldar, FULLY PAINTED) running 3 games at 1500 points each and only one of them had more than 3 minis fully painted, the rest was a sea of unpainted, horrific grey.

Is this a common phenomenon where the game is more important than the hobby? Or is it a phase they grow out of? I've never fielded more than a single mini unpainted, even after only 3 months.

Help me understand!

I hate painting - I love converting and then I try and paint them and my cool fun new model turns into a badly painted travesty of a model :( so now I pay other people to do it and buy painted figures on ebay. I have had immensely fun games playing against unpanted armies and shall we say most unfun games against painted armies.......the player matters more than the models I feel.

I love to see painted armies but have no problems playing against unpainted - some people constantly chop and change their collections, others like me hate painting.... might be worth asking the people in the store (nicely) why they are not painted - is it lack of skill, confidence, interest etc? If you can impart some of your obvious enthusiasm for painting on to them - then they may well get into to it as much as you? But then again they may not.....

LunaHound wrote:
Exactly, not only is painting time consuming and not fun, it LOWERS the resale value.
So logically speaking, why would i put effort into something counter productive?

Are you serious? There are three ways in which you can sell your army on the second hand market:

Brand New in Box....now, this is the most silly way to sell an army (trust me I know) you'll never get full retail! Why would people buy it at full retail, when they could simply buy it BRAND NEW from GW or another vendor who will guarantee the product in the case that parts are missing, miss-cast, etc. So selling the army this way will LOWER it's value, and you haven't even had any fun with it.

Badly painted!......now this is slightly better than Brand new in Box, because at least you've had some fun with it. However, there's no two ways about it, it is very unlikely that a bad paint job will improve the value of your army. However, judging by the term "Pro Painted" on ebay, selling a badly painted army is worth a punt....there's always some idiot out there who may think it's worthy of Coolminiornot, and of course there is the point that Beauty is subjective....so even though you think it's "bad", others may think it's great!

A well painted army.......Now this is what the OP is refering to, and this in no way de-values an army. A well painted force will increase it's value by, I'd say, at least 3x.....now, certainly you have to find someone who can pony up the kind of money you're asking for, and in this case it might be worth breaking the army down into smaller units rather than one big lump! However, investinig time and effort to paint your army to a high standard will i) increase it's value ii) make it great to look at on the gaming table.

LunaHound wrote:
A well painted army.......Now this is what the OP is refering to, and this in no way de-values an army. A well painted force will increase it's value by, I'd say, at least 3x.....now, certainly you have to find someone who can pony up the kind of money you're asking for, and in this case it might be worth breaking the army down into smaller units rather than one big lump! However, investinig time and effort to paint your army to a high standard will i) increase it's value ii) make it great to look at on the gaming table.

Not sure about that - I have spent a few thousand over the last year on ebay and picked up lovely painted single figures, units and armies consistantly for less than retail and sometimes at stupidly cheap amounts considering the quality. Some of that is luck but also alot of people seem to want to but figures they can paint themselves and don't want to strip them. I would agree that some do go for good money but sometimes even same units painted by same person can vary widely if the bidding does into a frenzy on one item and people ignore the other (wierdly)

on your b) well thats something that I think no-one can argue with

It annoys me. I'm not the worlds best painter - I don't have the talent or time but I like to think I do a decent job with what little time that I have.

One thing that I think is a major contributor is the lack of painting to be a requirement for tournaments. And even when it is now we're seeing guts with minimal paint jobs. In a way I wish it wasn't a compeditive game and only people who liked the minis and fluff would play it... otherwise it becomes like magic the gathering where people are churning out $£$ for new 'builds' every 5 minutes!

You should play Infinity, then you only have to paint ten miniatures

But yes this topic comes up often, and usually follows into the same pattern : "No-one can tell me how to have fun" etc.

Personally speaking, I would still play someone who has an unpainted army, but it is more enjoyable for me to play against a painted army (doesn't have to be amazing) and on some good terrain - having an unpainted army, i think people can slip into some bad habits, such as unassembled minis, proxies and things like that. I often find people who field such armies are also (for obvious reasons) less careful with their handling, which makes my painted forces nervous

@EldarN00b:
I do apologise if I came across as affronting or flamey, I wasn't really aiming for a rant so please don't take it that way.

It is frustrating that people will keep buying new minis without painting the old ones, and soon we end up with seas of unpainted plastic, but I attribute this more towards GWs current sales model. They used to be about the hobby, but now they are about large single-purchase new customers, which encourages the unpainted army approach (because they won't be in the hobby long enough to bother painting every skaven clanrat to GD standards).


And I think that covers the 2nd type of response Augustus5 mentioned...