Occupy Washington List of Demands

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**Frazzled**

Thoughts. There's a surprising number of ones here I agree with. The last one makes #3 moot - wish they had thought of that.
I guess I'd better quit bathing, put on the old tye dye shirt and start chanting...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2011/oct/3/picket-occupy-wall-street-protesters-post-manifest/

By Kerry Picket

Published on October 3, 2011, 04:41PM
**Update-Post #1 was a proposed list from an OWS supporter in their forum. Below is a working proposed list of demands by Occupy Wall Street (OWS):

Below is a list of proposed "DEMANDS FOR CONGRESS":

"The Sovereign People's Movement, represented nationally through the people occupying the various Liberty Square locations across this great country, have laid out and democratically submitted and are currently voting on the list of following Demands to then be distilled into one Unified Common demand of the people."

"Participate in Democracy and Vote Here to Have Your Voice Heard"

LIST OF PROPOSED "DEMANDS FOR CONGRESS"CONGRESS PASS HR 1489 ("RETURN TO PRUDENT BANKING ACT" http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-1489 ). THIS REINSTATES MANY PROVISIONS OF THE GLASS-STEAGALL ACT. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass–Steagall_Act --- Wiki entry summary: The repeal of provisions of the Glass–Steagall Act of 1933 by the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act in 1999 effectively removed the separation that previously existed between investment banking which issued securities and commercial banks which accepted deposits. The deregulation also removed conflict of interest prohibitions between investment bankers serving as officers of commercial banks. Most economists believe this repeal directly contributed to the severity of the Financial crisis of 2007–2011 by allowing Wall Street investment banking firms to gamble with their depositors' money that was held in commercial banks owned or created by the investment firms. Here's detail on repeal in 1999 and how it happened: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass–Steagall_Act#Repeal . Vote Here #1

USE CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY AND OVERSIGHT TO ENSURE APPROPRIATE FEDERAL AGENCIES FULLY INVESTIGATE AND PROSECUTE THE WALL STREET CRIMINALS who clearly broke the law and helped cause the 2008 financial crisis in the following notable cases: (insert list of the most clear cut criminal actions). There is a pretty broad consensus that there is a clear group of people who got away with millions / billions illegally and haven't been brought to justice. Boy would this be long overdue and cathartic for millions of Americans. It would also be a shot across the bow for the financial industry. If you watch the solidly researched and awared winning documentary film "Inside Job" that was narrated by Matt Damon (pretty brave Matt!) and do other research, it wouldn't take long to develop the list. Vote Here #2

CONGRESS ENACT LEGISLATION TO PROTECT OUR DEMOCRACY BY REVERSING THE EFFECTS OF THE CITIZENS UNITED SUPREME COURT DECISION which essentially said corporations can spend as much as they want on elections. The result is that corporations can pretty much buy elections. Corporations should be highly limited in ability to contribute to political campaigns no matter what the election and no matter what the form of media. This legislation should also RE-ESTABLISH THE PUBLIC AIRWAVES IN THE U.S. SO THAT POLITICAL CANDIDATES ARE GIVEN EQUAL TIME FOR FREE AT REASONABLE INTERVALS IN DAILY PROGRAMMING DURING CAMPAIGN SEASON. The same should extend to other media. Vote Here #3

CONGRESS PASS THE BUFFETT RULE ON FAIR TAXATION SO THE RICH AND CORPORATIONS PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE & CLOSE CORPORATE TAX LOOP HOLES AND ENACT A PROHIBITION ON HIDING FUNDS OFF SHORE. No more GE paying zero or negative taxes. Pass the Buffet Rule on fair taxation so the rich pay their fair share. (If we have a really had a good negotiating position and have the place surrounded, we could actually dial up taxes on millionaires, billionaires and corporations even higher...back to what they once were in the 50's and 60's.Vote Here #4

CONGRESS COMPLETELY REVAMP THE SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION and staff it at all levels with proven professionals who get the job done protecting the integrity of the marketplace so citizens and investors are both protected. This agency needs a large staff and needs to be well-funded. It's currently has a joke of a budget and is run by Wall St. insiders who often leave for high ticket cushy jobs with the corporations they were just regulating. Hmmm. Vote Here #5

CONGRESS PASS SPECIFIC AND EFFECTIVE LAWS LIMITING THE INFLUENCE OF LOBBYISTS AND ELIMINATING THE PRACTICE OF LOBBYISTS WRITING LEGISLATION THAT ENDS UP ON THE FLOOR OF CONGRESS. Vote Here #6

CONGRESS PASSING "Revolving Door Legislation" LEGISLATION ELIMINATING THE ABILITY OF FORMER GOVERNMENT REGULATORS GOING TO WORK FOR CORPORATIONS THAT THEY ONCE REGULATED. So, you don't get to work at the FDA for five years playing softball with Pfizer and then go to work for Pfizer making $195,000 a year. While they're at it, Congress should pass specific and effective laws to enforce strict judicial standards of conduct in matters concerning conflicts of interest. So long as judges are culled from the ranks of corporate attorneys the 1% will retain control. Vote Here #7

ELIMINATE "PERSONHOOD" LEGAL STATUS FOR CORPORATIONS. The film "The Corporation" has a great section on how corporations won "personhood status". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SuUzmqBewg . Fast-forward to 2:20. It'll blow your mind. The 14th amendment was supposed to give equal rights to African Americans. It said you "can't deprive a person of life, liberty or property without due process of law". Corporation lawyers wanted corporations to have more power so they basically said "corporations are people." Amazingly, between 1890 and 1910 there were 307 cases brought before the court under the 14th amendment. 288 of these brought by corporations and only 19 by African Americans. 600,000 people were killed to get rights for people and then judges applied those rights to capital and property while stripping them from people. It's time to set this straight. Vote Here #8

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Addendum, from the first post of the original site links to a supposed website.

Most of these can be boiled down to: give me money so I can buy my pot.

Demand 7 directly contradicts demand 5. Demand 1 is listed tweice effectively. They are real serious about getting more money for working at Starbucks. Interesting in that I actually agree with demand 1 in a big way, except for the $20 an hour part. Thats just funny. Thats $41,600 a year or more than my dad made for most of his income producing life.

Proposed List Of Demands For Occupy Wall St Movement!
Posted 9 days ago by LloydJHart (Vineyard Haven, MA)

Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending "Freetrade" by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field for domestic family farming and domestic manufacturing as most nations that are dumping cheap products onto the American market have radical wage and environmental regulation advantages. Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.

Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market as their only effect on the health of patients is to take money away from doctors, nurses and hospitals preventing them from doing their jobs and hand that money to wall st. investors.

Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

Demand four: Free college education.

Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.

Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.

Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants.

Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment.

Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.

Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system.

Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the "Books." World Bank Loans to all Nations, Bank to Bank Debt and all Bonds and Margin Call Debt in the stock market including all Derivatives or Credit Default Swaps, all 65 trillion dollars of them must also be stricken from the "Books." And I don't mean debt that is in default, I mean all debt on the entire planet period.

Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies.

Demand thirteen: Allow all workers to sign a ballot at any time during a union organizing campaign or at any time that represents their yeah or nay to having a union represent them in collective bargaining or to form a union.

These demands will create so many jobs it will be completely impossible to fill them without an open borders policy.

Lloyd J Hart 508-687-9153

**MrDwhitey**

Saw that earlier, some of the demands are... out there...

Some though, seem reasonable.

**Ahtman**

Are those two lists from the same organization.

**Frazzled**

Ahtman wrote:Are those two lists from the same organization.

I think the concept of "organization" is a bit fluid in this instance. The first set, posted to the Washington Times, is almost coherent. The second set on an actual site (below) is just fun crazy happy fun time that sounds like Code Pink and Cheech and Chong got together to have a plan.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-for-occupy-wall-st-moveme/

**biccat**

I tend not to take seriously anyone who cites Wikipedia or uses the words "pretty much" in a policy proposal.

I'm also not sure how they got to $20 per hour, unless it's just a nice round number. While I'm sure you could live on $20/hour, it would still be a pretty lower-middle class standard. They should raise it to $50/hour. Or better yet, $100/hour.

**Melissia**

20/hour would be ~40k a year for a 40 hour workweek.

This doesn't count vacations or holidays obviously.

Certainly it'd be better tahn the current minimum which results in ~12.5k a year. Most people who earn that work multiple jobs just to make ends meet in my experience.

**Frazzled**

biccat wrote:I tend not to take seriously anyone who cites Wikipedia or uses the words "pretty much" in a policy proposal.

I'm also not sure how they got to $20 per hour, unless it's just a nice round number. While I'm sure you could live on $20/hour, it would still be a pretty lower-middle class standard. They should raise it to $50/hour. Or better yet, $100/hour.

Thats $41M a year. For a large portioin of the US, thats not bad. Two people, thats living swell.

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Melissia wrote:20/hour would be ~40k a year for a 40 hour workweek.

This doesn't count vacations or holidays obviously.

Certainly it'd be better tahn the current minimum which results in ~12.5k a year. Most people who earn that work multiple jobs just to make ends meet in my experience.

Yes it would be a lot better. It also would mean there would be 50% unemployment.

You think McD is going to pay $20 an hour? You like paying $30 for a hamburger?

**Rented Tritium**

The first list you posted is mostly good stuff. The original list is HILARIOUSLY bad.

**Coolyo294**

I much prefer the Onion's version of this story.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/congress-takes-group-of-schoolchildren-hostage,26207/

**Melissia**

Frazzled wrote:Yes it would be a lot better. It also would mean there would be 50% unemployment.

Yes, overly simplified exaggeration works so well.

Frazzled wrote:You think McD is going to pay $20 an hour? You like paying $30 for a hamburger?

I wouldn't pay thirty cents for a McD gakburger.

**Frazzled**

Melissia wrote:
Frazzled wrote:Yes it would be a lot better. It also would mean there would be 50% unemployment.
Yes, overly simplified exaggeration works so well.

Frazzled wrote:You think McD is going to pay $20 an hour? You like paying $30 for a hamburger?
I wouldn't pay thirty cents for a McD gakburger.

its not an exagerration, its basic math. A $20 an hour minimum wage is higher than most manufacturing, retail, and

even government jobs. Thats Sr. Manager level pay for government jobs in Texas, almost Director level. For a starting salary? its just absofreakinglootely crazy talk.
Of course, with the open borders noted as an additional demand, a minium wage is moot.

**mattyrm**

That is some ridiculous gak right there.

A trillion for ecological projects, a trillion for infrastructure (right now!) and a free college education for all.

And who the feth pays for it all huh?!

Me?

**Melissia**

Frazzled wrote:its not an exagerration, its basic math.

Then show your math.

The fact that workers are currently underpaid while big businesses reap huge profits that they subsequently turn around and sit on doesn't exactly lend credence to your argument.

**Frazzled**

I wouldn't pay thirty cents for a McD gakburger.

At $20 an hour, you wouldn't have the option.
So you're going to pay $20 an hour for:

*busboys?
*gardeners?
*the Starbucks dude?
*cartguys at the grocery?
*tollbooth attendants?
*every employee in every fast food restaurant?
*every employee in every mall?
*every farmworker
*every person in a plant?

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Melissia wrote:
Frazzled wrote:its not an exagerration, its basic math.
Then show your math.

The fact that workers are currently underpaid while big businesses reap huge profits that they subsequently turn around and sit on doesn't exactly lend credence to your argument.

Oh wow we have a protester now. Are you going to be one of the people I intend to throw a banana peel at Thursday?

$41M is more than most college educated employees. Disagree, look up some jobs and see what they are paying. Then imagine all those jobs gone.
No restaurant will be in existence.
No retailer will be in existence.
No manufacturer with an assembly line will have employees outside of a few engineers.

**Melissia**

Frazzled wrote:At $20 an hour, you wouldn't have the option.

Yes I would. I don't go to McD. I wouldn't. Ever.

Frazzled wrote:*busboys?
*gardeners?
*the Starbucks dude?
*cartguys at the grocery?
*tollbooth attendants?
*every employee in every fast food restaurant?
*every employee in every mall?
*every farmworker
*every person in a plant?

When people have to work eighty hours a week or something similar just to try to pay rent, they're underpaid. This is not uncommon. I very much recall people I worked with talking about doing exactly that-- after they get off one job's shift they go directly to the next one's shift. Because they had family to support, family they only ever got to see on the weekends because they worked so much. Even fellow students often go off to work after class / go to class after their shift in work-- because they can't afford to be a full time student, even with government assistance they need to work.

And this is Texas, where the price of living is relatively low.

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Frazzled wrote:$41M

41k. Not million. Learn math.

College graduates earn on average ~51k a year right now. *

*Male college graduates. Female college graduates earn roughly 40k a year right now on average.

**Frazzled**

M is a basic notation for 1000 in finance. When discussing finance its best to learn nomenclature before you reveal ignorance.

**Melissia**

Frazzled wrote:M is a basic notation for 1000 in finance. When discussing finance its best to learn nomenclature before you reveal ignorance.

Oh look you can google a term, good for you.

You still haven't shown any actual math.

**biccat**

Melissia wrote:
Frazzled wrote:At $20 an hour, you wouldn't have the option.
Yes I would. I don't go to McD. I wouldn't. Ever.

When you refuse to patronize a business, such as McDonalds, the company sells less of their products. By selling fewer products, they hire less workers.

Do you want people who work at McDonalds to lose their jobs Mel? Sure $7.50/hour isn't great, but it's better than not having a job.

**Frazzled**

When people have to work eighty hours a week or something similar just to try to pay rent, they're underpaid.
***Then they need to get a cheaper place and/or some room mates. That’s $400 a week. Where the hell are they renting? River Oaks?

This is not uncommon. I very much recall people I worked with talking about doing exactly that-- after they get off one job's shift they go directly to the next one's shift.
***So? I‘ve done that. Life sucks then you die.

Because they had family to support, family they only ever got to see on the weekends
***Cry me a river. Better yet let them die a horrible screaming death. I’ve done that for more than 12 years to take care of my family.

because they worked so much. Even fellow students often go off to work after class / go to class after their shift in work
***That’s how its supposed to be. Everyone I knew did that. Seriously if people are whining because have to work to go to school they can suck my balls. My neighbor and his family crossed a desert/forded a small stream and evaded the local authorities to work here. So did the family behind me, and the family in front of me. Good people and they didn’t whine about it. But then again they’re not pathetic losers.

-- because they can't afford to be a full time student, even with government assistance they need to work.
***THAT’S WHAT I DID. Again, welcome to planet suck my balls. Its called picking yourself up by your bootstraps. They will do and be proud when they are done. Their children won’t have to.

And this is Texas, where the price of living is relatively low.
***At $20 an hour it won’t be.

**biccat**

Frazzled wrote:Thats $41M a year. For a large portioin of the US, thats not bad. Two people, thats living swell.

Yes, but think about how much better they would be if they were making $100,000/year. Better yet, $200,000/year. They wouldn't have to work long hours and could afford all sorts of wonderful luxuries.

**KingCracker**

I want to know why your arguing against Frazz's point though. Weather his math is bang on or way off, he has a VERY valid point. $20/hr for minimum wage is just ludicrous. Everything would more then double in price. While you wouldnt be paying 10 bucks for a dollar hamburger, youd be paying something like $3.30 cents for that same burger. $10 bucks for the CHEAP bag of bread at a grocery store? How about $45 for a car wash?

Not to mention in doing that, the value of our dollar will drop by leaps and bounds as well. I agreed with some of the stuff they demanded but that point really stuck out to me. They really think that in asking THAT MUCH for minimum wage, nothing will change in price? Cmon really?

**LordofHats**

KingCracker wrote:They really think that in asking THAT MUCH for minimum wage, nothing will change in price? Cmon really?

I'm sure they'll stick to their principles and demand the 'Minimum Wage Hounds' who destroyed the US economy be prosecuted. It would be hypocritical to suggest otherwise

**KingCracker**

Honestly....anymore when I try to think about who really is to blame on the current situation.... I think everything the Government has done in the last 10-15 years is to blame. I dont care how relative it is to the problem, Im just blaming everything on it. Can we drop a nuke on Parliament yet and just start over?

**Melissia**

biccat wrote:Do you want people who work at McDonalds to lose their jobs Mel?

When you work at McDonald's, the job sucks the life out of you. Do you really want to condemn people to a soulless life of working at McDonald's?

The very thought of it makes me shudder in fear.

**Frazzled**

Melissia wrote:
Frazzled wrote:M is a basic notation for 1000 in finance. When discussing finance its best to learn nomenclature before you reveal ignorance.

Oh look you can google a term, good for you.

You still haven't shown any actual math.

Google a term? I live it.

Just as a simple example as they don't seem to teach 4th grade math any more.
I'm a GW store. I make $5,000 a month.
I pay $2,000 in product cost all in. That leave $3,000.
A pay $1,500 a month for lease, lease payments related to sales, and utilities.
Thats $1,500 left. I pay labor costs for 200 manhours of part time labor thats $1,000 ($5 an hour not including SSI etc.). I net $500 a month.

If my labor costs are suddenly $20 an hour that means that I am now paying $4,000 or LOSING $2,500 a month. Those employees are now unemployed and that store is closed.

Now you'll probably argue - just raise your prices! The problem with that argument of course, is that if I could have charged higher prices I already would have.

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biccat wrote:
Frazzled wrote:Thats $41M a year. For a large portioin of the US, thats not bad. Two people, thats living swell.

Yes, but think about how much better they would be if they were making $100,000/year. Better yet, $200,000/year. They wouldn't have to work long hours and could afford all sorts of wonderful luxuries.

true that. Plus they could drive cars powered by hopes and dreams and fairy dust and Bastrop wouldn't again be on fire.

**Melissia**

Frazzled wrote:Then they need to get a cheaper place and/or some room mates. That’s $400 a week. Where the hell are they renting? River Oaks?

And paying for gas (which fluctuates wildly, but is still far higher than it used to be), and paying for food for multiple people (not everyone is a single non-parent), and paying for insurance (car insurance is mandatory, but home and life insurance are also important depending on the person...), and paying for their car (which itself is usually a cheap piece of crap, but the payments add up anyway), and paying for electricity (this is Texas, you don't go without air conditioning, you know that), and so on and so forth.

The rest of your post isn't worth responding to, so I won't

Frazzled wrote: Google a term? I live it.

I'm sure you do. Don't worry, I believe you. Yes.

As for what was below this-- thank you for providing actual math to support your argument instead of saying "OMG MATH MATH MATH" as if I have reason to believe you actually did any math without you even trying to show even a speck of your supposed work.

**Frazzled**

Melissia wrote:
biccat wrote:Do you want people who work at McDonalds to lose their jobs Mel?
When you work at McDonald's, the job sucks the life out of you. Do you really want to condemn people to a soulless life of working at McDonald's?

The very thought of it makes me shudder in fear.

So now you're deciding who gets to employ people whats a worthy job? You don't go around calling yourself "steel" do you? have a strange desire to stand in a pavilion while watching tanks and artillery pieces roll past?

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Melissia wrote:
The rest of your post isn't worth responding to, so I won't

Because you can't. Seriously, thats the problem right there. You want everything now. You want a high standard of living without the discipline and rigor of having to work for it.

I went to college for nine years and still had to go through 3 post grad jobs before I reached the level of earning the income you're talk about as a minimal level. The least you can do is put some effort into it.

**WarOne**

What is the perspective of the people who wrote this manifesto?

Where do they live? What do they do?

Of the former, there are big differences to living in New York (where I assume the demands primarily came from) versus Texas.

In NYC alone, mortgages go for $400,000 or more. Cost of living is significantly higher than in other places. Hell, a hundred mile difference between where I live and NYC, costs go up 10 or even 20 percent above what a person should be making.

So it is no small wonder a person who makes $8 in NYC is complaining about rate of pay.

**Melissia**

Frazzled wrote:Because you can't.

I could, but given the amount of rabid vitriol you spewed into that post, I'm still not gonna bother to respond regardless of your attempts to goad.

Frazzled wrote:So now you're deciding who gets to employ people whats a worthy job? You don't go around calling yourself "steel" do you? have a strange desire to stand in a pavilion while watching tanks and artillery pieces roll past?

Right, I'll leave this here in case you might be actually interested in the intent behind that post.

**biccat**

Frazzled wrote:
biccat wrote:
Frazzled wrote:Thats $41M a year. For a large portioin of the US, thats not bad. Two people, thats living swell.

Yes, but think about how much better they would be if they were making $100,000/year. Better yet, $200,000/year. They wouldn't have to work long hours and could afford all sorts of wonderful luxuries.

true that. Plus they could drive cars powered by hopes and dreams and fairy dust and Bastrop wouldn't again be on fire.

Well, the Texas wildfires are because people drive cars. The President said so.

Melissia wrote:When you work at McDonald's, the job sucks the life out of you. Do you really want to condemn people to a soulless life of working at McDonald's?

The very thought of it makes me shudder in fear.

Most people don't work at McDonald's for very long. My morning pass through the drive-through has demonstrated that amply. Because the thing about minimum wage jobs is that people tend to leave them as soon as something better comes along.

But, no, I don't want to condemn people to working at McDonalds. I think they should have a choice where they choose to work, or not work.