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In this episode, Frankie and Reecius discuss Necrons tactics, some tips to using units, and some loop holes and rules issues to take note of. We also discuss the results of some of our play-testing so far and what units we are finding that work well.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2011/11/10/signals-from-the-frontline-episode-5-necrons-tips-tricks-and-tactics/

Give it a listen and let us know what you think! Let us know if we missed anything or if you disagree with any of our rules interpretations and why.

Thanks for listening,

Reece

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/17 18:11:00


   
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Nice podcast--some great information. Some general questions/wonders I have (Unless I'm missing something)...

Command Barges: They are a dedicated transport that can transport an independent character. You can disembark as normal--which means you might have to start in the barge--but you could dismount and give it to another independent character that normally does not have access to it. For example;

Ob--the best CC guy the Crons have and has a Scythe for ride by attacks. So he could do sweep attacks on a unit, dismount, (due to open top) attack another unit--while the barge shoots another unit. Or--what happens if he stays on the barge and activates it? Does the barge veil too?

Orikan could do the same thing. Steal a regular Overlords ride then wait until the stars are right.



Some other thoughts;

Tachyon Arrow in a unit with Chron
Royal Court with Lances stealing an Ark and moving around as a gunboat. If you take the Strategy guy, give them tank hunters.
Stormlord's lightning is canceled if you pulse on your turn
I'm unsure if you can use the Chron to reroll his storm ability--it says a 'phase' and his ability says "start of turn'

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Just started listening

Chronometron only works on d6 rolls. BRB pg 2: "If you re-roll a 2D6 or 3D6 roll, you must re-roll all of the dice and not just some of them, unless the rule granting you the re-roll explicitly specifies otherwise."

Nothing specific in chronometron that would overrule that. I would love it though if it worked -- for leadership also woulda been nice.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/11 00:18:03


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winterman wrote:Just started listening

Chronometron only works on d6 rolls. BRB pg 2: "If you re-roll a 2D6 or 3D6 roll, you must re-roll all of the dice and not just some of them, unless the rule granting you the re-roll explicitly specifies otherwise."

Nothing specific in chronometron that would overrule that. I would love it though if it worked -- for leadership also woulda been nice.


Chrono says "Reroll one his (or unit) D6 rolls" ... If you roll 2d6... you still rolled 1d6 2times? Your not rerolling a 2d6. your re-rolling a d6. Think the Ruling for Chrono goes hand in hand with the "unless the rule granting you the re-roll explicitly specifies otherwise.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/11 00:33:10


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@Winterman and Tsilber
Thanks for the clarification guys, we appreciate it! We will update that on our blog. It is still a great piece of kit.

@AgeofEgos
Command barges, we see this as possible yeah. it is a transport, so if you play musical chairs with it, you can toss another character in there.

That is interesting what happens when a veil interacts with the barge. I would imagine that by RAW, the entire thing would go.

At the beginning of the turn would be the movement phase as the BRB defines the turn as being separated into movement, shooting and assault. Their technically is no "beginning of turn" phase officially, although everyone plays it as a pseudo phase.

The super shooty unit in a ghost arc is pretty awesome! We will cover that in another show.

We did forget to mention storm lord's ability being cancelled if a pulse is used. We'll bring that up.

   
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Tsilber wrote:
winterman wrote:Just started listening

Chronometron only works on d6 rolls. BRB pg 2: "If you re-roll a 2D6 or 3D6 roll, you must re-roll all of the dice and not just some of them, unless the rule granting you the re-roll explicitly specifies otherwise."

Nothing specific in chronometron that would overrule that. I would love it though if it worked -- for leadership also woulda been nice.


Chrono says "Reroll one his (or unit) D6 rolls" ... If you roll 2d6... you still rolled 1d6 2times? Your not rerolling a 2d6. your re-rolling a d6. Think the Ruling for Chrono goes hand in hand with the "unless the rule granting you the re-roll explicitly specifies otherwise.


No, D6 Roll =/= 2D6 roll

They are both different. A 2d6 is one roll.

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How about this tactic? I don't have my Codex at hand, but hopefully this is possible...

Near or in front of something that looks like a good target for enemy assault units(dedicated or not), have a C'tan backed up by Lychguard with shields. Try to get the charge on them with both units. If they kill your C'tan, which it had probably done some mean things before dying, the Dispersion shields could redirect all of the Str4 Ap1 hits they'd take into the enemy.

The more Lychguard, the better...

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Deathmarks, Cryptek with abyssal staff. Whilst it may wound in LD not toughness, it will wound their (the deathmarks) marked squad on a 2+ always. So, you have a str8 (may/may not ID T4 models - unsure, not too important) AP1 anti-cover template weapon that wounds on a 2+. Pretty lethal, for 125pts.

Not a major point on this one but; the army scales. Healthy options across all of the FOC. I think it will happily field larger armies, where other codex's fall down a bit.

Wraiths have a 3++, multi-wound, partial-to-complete wound allocation, reasonably good CC attacks & are jump infantry. They are also to the only real straight up HQ synergy with the Destroyer lord (preferred enemy: All!) = they become lethal.

Doom Scythe range of engagement; 12" move, 12" 1st point-of-line placement, 3d6" 2nd point-of-line placement - lets assume a poor roll of 8" for that, total of 32" - To even tag one squad or vehicle from turn 1, its definitely doable. I'm saying, after looking at it in that light, you won't always have to flat-out or deep-strike it every game, on the 1st turn.

Monolith Goalposts with a C'tan goalkeeper. Lord of flame ability will mute or deter all those now-viable meltas from charging after the monoliths. - Nothing ground breaking.

Monoliths & MSU troop choices. You can spend minimal points into your troop choices (300-400) whilst retaining a massive amount of flexibility with the monoliths portal ability. That combined with a single veil cryptek - above-par troop mobility.

I've checked the thread for these points & they don't seemed to have been mentioned, so enjoy - hope its good

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Interesting little bit I tried today:

5 tomb blades with particle casters. It worked out extremely nicely. 12 inch move, turbo-boost option, good weapon range and profile, T5 with 4+ and 5+ RP made them durable enough. They drew a lot of fire for me and did a great job of cutting through infantry units. Turned out to be a surprisingly cost-effective unit. I heavily recommend everyone try them out.

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AgeOfEgos wrote:. Or--what happens if he stays on the barge and activates it? Does the barge veil too?


Ob and the barge are separate units so only Ob would Veil away.

Some other thoughts;

I'm unsure if you can use the Chron to reroll his storm ability--it says a 'phase' and his ability says "start of turn'


I'd more concerned with the wording: Lord of the Storm says you (IE not Imotekh) may roll to keep it going and the chrono says a model or his unit. Since you are neither the Cryptek or his unit you don't get the re-roll.

Gorandius wrote:
Near or in front of something that looks like a good target for enemy assault units(dedicated or not), have a C'tan backed up by Lychguard with shields. Try to get the charge on them with both units. If they kill your C'tan, which it had probably done some mean things before dying, the Dispersion shields could redirect all of the Str4 Ap1 hits they'd take into the enemy.


Doesn't work as the wounds cause by the C'tan are not specified as shooting or 'treated as shooting'.
   
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Nungunz wrote:
Gorandius wrote:
Near or in front of something that looks like a good target for enemy assault units(dedicated or not), have a C'tan backed up by Lychguard with shields. Try to get the charge on them with both units. If they kill your C'tan, which it had probably done some mean things before dying, the Dispersion shields could redirect all of the Str4 Ap1 hits they'd take into the enemy.


Doesn't work as the wounds cause by the C'tan are not specified as shooting or 'treated as shooting'.


I suppose the fact that it has an AP value, as shooting, is irrelevant?
   
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Cryptek with Abyssal Stave and Veil of Darkness - 60 points.

Can Veil and AP1Template units.

He's everliving too, so he gets shot next turn. Then he stands up at the start of your opponent's assault phase on a 5+ . Now if the unit he templated either 1) shot something else, and/or 2) Shot Rapidfire/Heavy Weapons they can't assault him.
Basically you have 33% odds your suicide unit will be there for another go in your next turn.

Now if you fight an army where an AP1 Template isn't really going to get good returns, (or DS defenses) or an objective heavy mission, the Cryptek can always opt out of the suicide role and join into a troop unit at the start of the game (that doesn't have another Lord/Cryptek option, as basically a 60 point teleportation upgrade to that squad for late game objective grabbing.

For 60 points he seems stupid good.

Obvious limitations are you need a Royal-Court capable HQ to buy him, and this pre-empts you from running a actual Court unit itself. However you can still buy other Lords/Crypteks you always intend to split off.

Ghost Arks. Royal Courts can ride in this. Either a combat capable one, or a shooting one (lances). You kind of missed this when you glossed over Ghost Arks. Both benefit from the opentopped status.

225 points for 5 Lords with Warscythes, all with Everliving. Or for would allocation something like

Lord with Scythe, Res Orb
Lord with Scythe, Mindshackle Scarabs
Lord with Scythe,
Lord with Hyperphase Sword, Mindshackle Scarabs
Lord with Hyperphase Sword

265 points.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/11/13 16:09:06


 
   
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Tachyon Arrow + Chronometron + Harp + Stalker (optional) = Hilarity!

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Chronometron seems a must take with Anrakyr. Rerolls on his Tachyon and Vehiclestealing.

Chrono with Harp sure is nice as well.

Shooty HQ AT unit -

Nemesor
Cryptek with Harp
Cryptek with Chronometron
Cryptek with Lance, Pulse
Cryptek with Lance
Cryptek with Lance

405 points.

Obvious synergy here is Nemesor gives them Tank Hunters for effective Str 9, the unit can move and shoot, and the Harp has a good chance to lower the AV by 1 point. So what was Str 8 shooting at AV14 becomes Str 9 shooting at AV13. What was Str 8 on AV 11 becomes Str 9 on AV 10, etc. Also the Chronometron is like a good luck enhancer, if you roll well initially, you can then spend the reroll on the vehicle chart, etc.

Now it's expensive, but you can opt to put them into an AV13 Ark for protection which can still move and shoot. But even in cover you can opt to put wounds on Nemesor, reroll a save, etc. Also remember you're buying Nemesor's ability to strip special rules, add other special rules, phase in reinforments, etc.

Yep if you have a Stalker in your army it boosts this unit up too.

   
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Unit1126PLL wrote:
I suppose the fact that it has an AP value, as shooting, is irrelevant?


Similar to the Doom before it was FAQ'd. Doesn't specify the the C'tan 'explosion' is a shooting attack or a close-combat attack. It also doesn't say that you may take cover saves as has been the recent trend in newer codicies.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/13 19:51:42


 
   
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There are a lot of combos pretty deep into this book, which is really refreshing considering how poor it looked at first glance.

The more we play it, the more fun we have with it.

Still, the hands down most powerful combo we've pulled out of it is 9 spider/scarab/imotekh.

That is brutal, and a lot of armies have nothing to stop it.

We're looking for more to add to the list, but wraiths look like a good addition, as do Tomb Blades.

   
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9 Spyder/Scarab/Imotekh costs at minimum 855 points and is almost totally impotent against some armies. I'm pretty sure that it's not an all-comers army.
   
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Fetterkey wrote:9 Spyder/Scarab/Imotekh costs at minimum 855 points and is almost totally impotent against some armies. I'm pretty sure that it's not an all-comers army.


Yeah, mech guard laughs at scarab spam unfortunately.

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Reecius wrote:There are a lot of combos pretty deep into this book, which is really refreshing considering how poor it looked at first glance.

The more we play it, the more fun we have with it.

Still, the hands down most powerful combo we've pulled out of it is 9 spider/scarab/imotekh.

That is brutal, and a lot of armies have nothing to stop it.

We're looking for more to add to the list, but wraiths look like a good addition, as do Tomb Blades.



Have you tried;


Imotekh

Lychguard in Night Scythe (Maybe two units)

Warriors

Wraiths in a Night Scythe

Doom Scythe x 3

Whatever else you decide to throw in



Yeah, it's not as nasty as Spyders/Scarabs--but seems like it would be a fun "What the hell do I shoot first" style army. Deny flank, night fight, seize on a 4+, turbo up---and they have some tough decisions.

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To OP, thanks for the link. Interesting ideas. My suggestion though is to post a transcript of the audio for easier quicker access.

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@Necrontyr40K

That's a great idea, thanks! We'll utilize that going forward.

@Fetterkey and Ostrakon
Actually, we've found that not to be the case. We have played that list in a tournament, and Will smashed nearly everyone he played, only not winning the tournament due to a tie in the last game to a Dark Eldar player with insane dice.

Mech guard gets run over rough-shod by Scarabs unless they have Hellhounds. The scarabs with nightfight and stealth are incredibly hard to kill, and if you sit back and farm scarabs for a turn or two, when you make your move, it's with a giant mass of scarabs that are too numerous to stop.

We've had them get charged by furious assault, preferred enemy termies, vect with wyches, etc. and the scarabs just destroy them.

The only thing we've seen that can kill them is Hellhounds, massed flamers, and things that have lots of attacks and double them out in HtH.

Too each their own, of course, but in our test games, it is has proven to be a hands down winner in terms of power.

We'll keep play testing it, of course, to see how it holds up to other builds, but so far it has been very powerful.

@Age of Egos
I am on the same page with the 3 Doom Scythes and Imotekh, that is an amazing alpha strike. We haven't had the chance to try it yet, though. I think it would be very good, though.

   
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How does the list counter people bubblewrapping? How does it counter not going first against armies with Manticores, Hellhounds, TFCs, etc.?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/11/16 05:54:03


 
   
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@ Reecius: How many scarab swarms do you field with 9 spyders? 1 Squad, 3? And what about troops, what works well?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Friend of mine just sent me this:

"The Tyranid Codex, where I learned the truth about despair, as will you. There's a reason why this codex is the worst hell on earth... Hope. ."
Too be fair.. it's all worked out quite well!

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Is 60 points (and a HS slot) too much for a single Heavy Destroyer? They are jump troops now, so they can deepstrike, right? Would it be worth the 60 points to deepstrike behind a Tank with your HD and take a BS4 shot with S9?

Against AV 12:
Miss / No Result = 55%
Glance = 11%
Penetrate = 33%

Maybe no so much looking at the percentages for AV 12, but against AV 10 looks better:
Miss = 33%
Glance = 11%
Penetrate = 55%

Mezmaron

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/11/16 06:30:39


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tbh, small error on the ghost ark you can add a assault unit

A overlord, with 5 court lords could ride this and assault out of it, you could even add a cryptek to give them assault and defensive grenaded...

of course the unit wont be light, but in bigger games i dont want to face Zandrek, Obyron and 5 lords storming out of the barge...

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Here's something that will kill scarabs. 10-man paladin unit with banner. That's one unit the scarabs are going to want to avoid.



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jy2 wrote:Here's something that will kill scarabs. 10-man paladin unit with banner. That's one unit the scarabs are going to want to avoid.



What WANTS to engage a 10 man Paladin unit... lol.

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jy2 wrote:Here's something that will kill scarabs. 10-man paladin unit with banner. That's one unit the scarabs are going to want to avoid.



I think against Paladin death stars you need to treat them somewhat like the old Necron codex treated CC armies; never let them get close. Use all slowing abilities, and include some ID spam (death ray etc) that hopefully can whittle down their numbers to something reasonable.

I don't really have a good answer yet though on how to deal with them using an 'all-comers' list.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/16 14:33:00


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http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2011/11/16/video-battle-report-tastey-taste-vs-reecius/

That is a report with me vs. Tastey trying out some new units.

@Fetterkey
We are tweaking the list to include some more assault units such as Wraiths as we believe these compliment the overall list, well. Wraiths can be used to collapse screens.

Going second against alpha strike lists with manticores, etc, can be tough. You should usually go first with Imotekh, but if you do find yourself going second, make sure the Scarabs have a cover save (3+ with stealth) which means if the other player doesn't have the ability to ignore cover, you should be OK. You can always take a second squad of Scarabs as insurance. Hellhounds are your worst nightmare with this list, though, and should be target priority number 1.

Nightfight from the Stormlord really helps mitigate an alpha strike though. We have found it to be a huge game changer.

@Razerous
We have found 9 Spiders and 10 scarabs to work well.

Most armies just can't deal with that many tough 6 wounds and 3+ save scarabs through night-fight before you can farm up a massive squad of scarabs.

@Mezmaron
We have found Heavy D's to be hit or miss. For 180 points, I think they are a good value, and the long range punch is really nice, but focus fire drops the entire squad before they get the chance to get back up, often. I like them personally, but I don't think they are mandatory.

@Valek
You're right! We did overlook that, thanks for pointing it out.

@Jy2 and Sasori
Very true! Anything that can ID the scarabs in combat, can be trouble in a big way. The Crons would have toruble with that list. I would try to wear down the Palies as much as possible with flak fire, and then hit them with everything in the army.

@Warpgrenade

True. And taking a C'Tan with writhing worldscape helps to prevent deepstriking and slows the enemy down.

   
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I have a question, do you think nemesor zandrek would work well with 5 lords with mindshakle scarabs? It would make the unit extremly expensive but good for friendly play.

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