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I currently go to one so my opinion may be biased.

I say no, it's a spectrum and thus is very varied. We've got kids who like me intergrate into modern society as best as possible and then people who are just as likely to be really friendly as they're to throw boiling water in your face. Yes that did happen he was in the burns ward for a week.

I agree on one point though the later need to have a place to go. The former are usually there from either bullying or messing around and being picked out by teachers because of the AS label, that latter happened to me. Anyway this isn't about me this is about the schools.

Some facts.
Students often have to pay legal fees to "persuade" the LEA into paying the £135,000 a year. The average fee from my experience is £30,000 on lawyers. The more severe don't often have that hoop to jump through.

That's all Tax payers money, a total waste. The educated amongst us and the people who've been in the "real" society realise how restricted the rules are. We're fed badly treated not the best all because the companies want to make a big profit margin.

The punishments are unfair, how many of you had a bedtime at 16? I rebelled against it and i'm expected to pay £100 for sitting outside my room being quiet and not disrupting anything. The bill is to cancel my phone contract and the worst part is they took my paint :( anyway I digress but I'm emotionally connected to this.

I have eating issues I freely admit this, I've been brought up with a gold spoon in my mouth and have been fed the best and have become used to this. The school feed us value food and this conflicts with my eating. They're meant to pay the difference into what my family pays extra for. Which now totals at £3000 you can guess whats happened. Nothing, court action might have to be taken.

Also my school has outstanding from Ofsted, do you want to know why? Because we're ignored and they only listen to staff. I put on a polite tone explain things calmly and get treated like I'm simple. That's not the behaviour a official should be showing.

On the note of my food I had to hunger strike for two weeks and get the NHS involved to get consistant eating, I still often only get two meals or one a day.

My Nerotypical friends think this is disgraceful and my parents are fed a lot of lies, I had to take photos of the Kitchen to get through to them, 20 flies and a Grill that was caked in pastry. The oven was bust and we've got a washing machine that makes things dirtier than before with all the Limescale.

Ofsted are also led around the site only being shown the best parts and were told that if we act up we lose our Consoles phones Ipods anything that we hold dear.

Anyway I shall end my rant, feel free to post your thoughts and not just rip into me for my upbringing, my family worked hard for it.

I'm all for specialist schools to help austic and aspergers kids, I'm in the aspergers part of the spectrum and while I'm pretty well adjusted there are a LOT of young people out there really suffering because the schools just can't cope with them.

Also you really need to be more coherent in your posts, this one especially came across as very jumbled and hopped between seemingly unlinked points for seemingly no reason.

I would be if I was typing from a computer.
I'm on my mobile with a poxy little screen and it makes it impossible to edit without ripping up half the post.

Mabye next time I will type it out on my laptop the write it through the phone.

I'm all for schools like these. It seems to me that putting someone who might be on the spectrum in a public school can cause issues, I have seen it, that affects the students and staff around them and can have a negative impact on everyone. With these schools it allows for those (and I'm hesitant to use this term but can't think of the PC thing to say) 'less able' to fit in to have a better chance at receiving the education they need at a place suited to them.

I have been in classes with those on the spectrum who took offence at general statements not directed at them, and proceeded to smash up the classroom, disrupting everyone else. When they went to a specialism school their behaviour improved dramatically and they were able to fit in more.

So yes I am all for them.

I think we need more special schools and they need to be of good quality, definitely. Unfortunately, they cost bollock loads of money.

It is a massive waste of money however to put a kid who COULD function in a normal school into a specialist school. It's a big drain on resources. But that's beside the point.
The current strategy seems to be towards "inclusive schooling" a nice way of saying "keep everyone in mainstream schools and expect staff to keep a lid on it". It's cheaper and when it goes wrong you can scapegoat the staff, who are generally woefully undertrained in strategies for dealing with SN kids of any stripe.

The dream solution is of course more specialist schools with more well trained staff. This is bloody unlikely to happen though. For one, the UK is currently in an austerity drive due to a massive deficit. For another, it's involved in military actions costing a huge amount of money for zero gain that for some reason have fairly decent levels of support, such that the government has not widthdrawn despite the dire straits at home.
So, InquistorVaron, I reckon it's going to get worse before it gets better. On the Ofsted thing, yeah, all schools pretty much try to show the good and hide the bad. It's a fact of human nature and happens in all institutions. Personally I find the school ranking system weird and pretty damaging to education in this country, though I think regular inspections are a good thing.

In your personal case (I understand you were not asking advice, but you seem to be having a tough time so I hope you won't mind me offering some) I would advise a less antagonistic approach. If you just play along with the system and make nice with the staff as much as possible, you'll find your journey to the other end much nicer than if you kick up a fuss all the time. This is rather depressing but it's true. Best of luck anyhow.

Da Boss wrote:I think we need more special schools and they need to be of good quality, definitely.

Not me.

I think that considering we as a nation have feth all money, parents should look after their children themselves frankly, and stop dripping all the time. I'm a childless tax payer, I care nothing for morons who breed like rats and have no thought for the morrow. If and when I have a child, I will ensure I am financially sound enough to care for said child, and ill plan for every eventuality, such as a child with special needs.

The fact is, we have so many labels these days, there have been numerous tales of families getting free luxury cars because they have a child with some nonsense "mental illness" like AD or some such. Be it child tax credits or child support or whatnot, as far as I'm concerned the tax payer already spends far too much money on the sick the lame and the lazy and people who see having kids as a "job for life". I am in none of those brackets and I get nothing off anybody, I pay everything in full, from my frankly outrageous council tax to my ridiculously high car tax. Both of those being things that get targeted for reduction.

Remember this gem?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2046924/Parent-child-ADHD-Have-free-car-1-5bn-taxpayer-funded-scheme.html

The list is endless.

£42 million of child benefits a year goes straight abroad, 92,000 Eastern Europeans are on wellfare, shameless mothers with 6 kids go 25 years without working.

We already do enough for our citizens, if you are over the age of 18, whatever happened to just shutting up and sorting your life out?

In my book we should cap wellfare and should stop any and all government child support after three kids, and as sad as it must be for you, I really don't care if one of your kids has cerebral palsy so you decide you cant afford to look after him and you want the rest of us to do it at a cost of £200,000 a year.

ADHD and autism are slightly different kettles of fish...

corpsesarefun wrote:ADHD and autism are slightly different kettles of fish...

Yes of course they are, but I still dont see why a random stranger should care if I have a kid with autism?

If I had a child with autism, I would raise him or her with no government assistance. I am 100% certain I could and would achieve this goal, and I think that people should grow a backbone and stop demanding money with menaces off the tax payer.

Matty, you're confusing a moral judgement on the people getting help with a sound logistical decision to help build a society that functions.

Kids that have difficulties get born to parents who for whatever reason can't fully cope. If we say "Feth 'em!" we end up with an underclass. Whether you think they deserve it is irrelevant. I'm a tax payer too and it's in my self interest to make sure that we don't end up with that sort of society. I want a society where the maximum number of people can be productive and functional, and the minimum number are antisocial or violent.

Even if the parents CAN cope, it's an insurance policy to make some support available to them. There is science behind this stuff, certain behavioural strategies really do work. By making people trained in these strategies available to the average Joe we make it more likely that their kid will get the help needed to fit in and be useful in society.

At the root, this is the case in all schools. However, with kids who have extreme difficulties, a different school is useful. Whether these difficulties are social (ie. poorly raised malcontents who are violent and abusive), physical (kids suffering from cerebral palsy or other physical problems) or psychological (severe to moderate autism (I reckon the mild autism kids can get along alright in normal schools) and other psychological problems not including ADHD tbh) they are more effectively dealt with in a specialist location. Putting these kids in a mainstream school has three negative effects (off the top of my head).
1. Staff become much less effective at dealing with the 95%+ of normal kids as the difficult ones take a hell of a lot more of their time and energy.
2. Staff cannot properly deal with the difficult kids as they do not have the appropriate settings or training.
3.Result is money is spent inefficiently to deliver a poorer quality of education to both special needs kids and normal kids.

If you have some sort of solution other than "stop dripping" I'd like to hear it. But to me your post reads like a strongly held moral/emotional belief rather than a well thought out argument.

Da Boss wrote:

If you have some sort of solution other than "stop dripping" I'd like to hear it. But to me your post reads like a strongly held moral/emotional belief rather than a well thought out argument.

Yeah that's all it is to be fair mate. I'm a black and white sort of bloke as your well aware.

Nah Matty, I think you're doing yourself a disservice there, to be fair. On some topics you are fairly reasonable, but lazy people/moaners and religious nuts seem to be your two weakpoints when it comes to reason.

No worries anyhow, we all argue because we want to get our position out there as much as to change the other guy's mind.

Trying to think of a sensitive way to put this...

Like any other group of people, I wonder how much easier you're making things for people when you insulate them too much during their childhood. There are too many people who are ejected from a sheltered pocket-dimension of society into a larger adult world where no one really gives a gak about their problems, only whether or not they will be able to show up to work and do what they're supposed to do when they get there. This isn't strictly limited to autism, mind.

If a kid absolutely can't function with the non ASD kids, then they should go to a special school. If they can function, even if they need extra help, I think the socialization aspect of public schools is an important part of growing up.

I say this as someone who has relatives and friends with autistic children, so I hope you'll read this as coming from someone who is sympathetic.

"This just in: Kid hates school. Now, here's Ted with the weather in your area.


Ted?"

'Thanks Julie. Today's forecast is cloudy with a moderate chance of self-pity, overnight temperatures looking spoilt, moving into entitlement by early tomorrow morning.


Back to you.'

I've taken my own advise and typed this onto a computer before using my phone, I hope this makes a difference.

Matty, your post is rather ignorant and disrepective on many levels, i say that not from my view point but from a general one but I agree with multiple things you've said though. Your opinions on the multiple children front are quite accurate and as you've rightly pointed out if your having that many kids you should be financially stable enough to support them.
I disagree with your views on children with serious diseases/syndromes though, if you had a child with something like that you wouldn't want them to have severe discomfort because the state doesn't help, I doubt the majority have £230,000 spare. You've got to out yourself in their shoes.
Your dream soloution is rather flawed in the case of Autism and Aspergers unless it's a severe case, the fix shouldn't be throw them into un-reality for the sake of everyone, you must at least give them a chance. My view is to equip the school with the means to accommodate the problem child with alienating them from their peers, that i speak from experience.

I dislike your remark on parents growing a backbone, if you could cope well with a severely autistic child by yourself then you're a one of a kind. In regard to high functioning children then it can be done, and was in my case for a while but many parents mine included think specialist schools are the place to be and help to flourish are apt minds, yet apperances can be deceptive.

Since the majority of you haven't experienced a specialist school your views on them are rather flawed. The media portray them as a fix all and their reports are bias considering they only get one viewpoint on the matter, have you ever heard our opinions?
Unfortunately that's because they're often dismissed as many people don't have a proper understanding of the syndrome, including ofsted.

Da Boss, I'm touched by your last remark as it does make sense but my standpoint is a fixed one.
Change only happens when someone stands up, for example An San Suu Kyi or Mandela, not that i compare myself to them but comparing the means of change.

I agree with your views on regular inspections but that would cost too much a better plan would be to make them a suprise so schools can't prepare. I agree with your view on people who cope with the mainstream environment. Putting us in a specialist school doesn't benefit us as it is a restrictive enviroment and is distressing for anyone.

Monster Rain your views on somethings are rather like mine, i wasn't told about my AS until twelve and the majority of AS people who cope are much the same, wheras people who knew at birth haven't adapted as they've been gold their behaviour is accetable because of the Syndrome. It was only found out recently because we're good at adapting, being told it's acceptable makes there no need to adapt and this lowers the amount of us considered normal.

Albatross, mabye i do wallow in my own self pity a tad to much, i accept that as it is my way to cope and i apologize for inflicting that upon you but the saying does go "Misery loves company"

Changes have to happen but can't due to the label society gives us, much like wargamers.
I've spoken on issues of unfair treatment withoit the label and my views were taken into account, i've spoken once again and they've been dismissed because of that label. It's a strange biased world we live in.

Thank you to the posters who've contributed something helpful to the thread and I hope will continue too.

mattyrm wrote:

I still dont see why a random stranger should care if I have a kid with autism?

Most well adjusted humans have empathy and sympathy for others, especially children, and especially children with special needs.

hard for YOU to understand I know, but it is true...




Automatically Appended Next Post:

mattyrm wrote:

Da Boss wrote:

If you have some sort of solution other than "stop dripping" I'd like to hear it. But to me your post reads like a strongly held moral/emotional belief rather than a well thought out argument.

I'm a black and white sort of bloke as your well aware.

That is one way to describe it...

I'm not sure how the school system in the UK works.

Here in my area, there are special classes within some of the standard schools for young children, age 5 - 10.

They are having a really success rate on instructing the kids in behavior matters and studies, and having them functional enough to attend mainstream class within a few years.

I am sure the children are all different and some need more assistance than others. An ex of mine used to work at a home for Autistic teens.

Another ex of mine has an autistic son, and that is why I know about the schools.

This has taught me that lots of parents get really fed up with their children, especially when they are more difficult on average. And a lot of these parents would love to send their children off to be dealt with by someone else.

Hence places like the home my ex used to work at.

I find this incredibly distasteful, but that is not the matter we are discussing.

Should these places exist?

Yes - Only to help teach them and integrate them into society as a whole. Places like where you are, should be privately paid for and have the care that would go with those fees.

Yes - There should be a public school classroom for this in at least a couple schools per town, enough to accomodate the # of autistic children in the area.

Kim, I know, the majority of parents at my school are seperate. My parents and I have a good relationship or aswell as a teen can with a parent if that's what your implying.

Anyway, the difficulty is that it's a spectrum and every child is different wheras these schools cater for the worst case scenarios and restrict those able.

I think better systems in place at school is what's needed, the Schools should exist but they should differentiate between who really needs it and who's there because there parents can't cope, you've brought an intresting point to the thread.

public schools are autistic spectrum schools. More kids than you think are in the spectrum, most never get tested

DIDM wrote:public schools are autistic spectrum schools. More kids than you think are in the spectrum, most never get tested

In a school of a thousand around eighteen have Autism or Aspergers, do research before along such sweeping statements.

InquisitorVaron wrote:

DIDM wrote:public schools are autistic spectrum schools. More kids than you think are in the spectrum, most never get tested

In a school of a thousand around eighteen have Autism or Aspergers, do research before along such sweeping statements.

I worked with autistic children and my brother has been diagnosed and much of my family has characteristics



stop making false accusations please. You pulled that stat out of your ass BTW, it is much much higher

I disagree with Aspeger's because it doesn't really affect people that much. It will only isolate them and make seem worse.

DIDM wrote:

InquisitorVaron wrote:

DIDM wrote:public schools are autistic spectrum schools. More kids than you think are in the spectrum, most never get tested

In a school of a thousand around eighteen have Autism or Aspergers, do research before along such sweeping statements.

I worked with autistic children and my brother has been diagnosed and much of my family has characteristics


stop making false accusations please. You pulled that stat out of your ass BTW, it is much much higher

If family members have it and you worked with people who have it why are you so ignorant?

Everyone has Autistic traits, everyone is on the Spectrum but at varying degrees anger and stress make these levels higher.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism that's the stat and i concur in my personal experience. Mabye you went to a specialist school and you didn't know?

mattyrm wrote: If and when I have a child, I will ensure I am financially sound enough to care for said child, and ill plan for every eventuality, such as a child with special needs.

Heavy emphasis on this.

As for OP's question, I'm on the fence. From personal experience, regular schools aren't exactly great as it is. With schools now being rather poor across the states, trying to setup new schools just doesn't sound reasonable. I think more funding could go into regular schools dealing with kids who have trouble learning. All this noise about kids being singled out grates the nerves though. Not that I'm denying that it happens, but that I just don't think enough effort is going into solving it, and the methods that are currently being used are sub par.

I don't think it would be a bad idea, but I think fixing what we have could work too.

Being British our system is different, I urge the United states not to make our mistakes and make methods inside the normal schools.

The Cambian group are a corporation and make millions out of your tax and our misery. We're treated sub-par for maximum profit.

I've been working with older adults who have autism for thirteen years now and I personally believe that if their education could of been tailored to their needs when they were at school they would have a lot better quality of life now. Unfortunately they were seen as different and pushed to the side...

Mattrym- I can understand where your coming from on some points, there are those who willingly abuse the system but you can't tar everyone with the same brush. Think of it this way, the guys I assist cost the tax payer many thousands of pounds per year, if they had a better education and understanding when they were younger they probably wouldn't need the level of care that they recieve now therefore saving thousands of pounds per year...

InquisitorVaren- there are agencys you can complain to yourself if its as bad as you say and they will investigate fully (csky is one).

Mick

I almost brought along Panorama, but it might be a tad overkill.

InquisitorVaron wrote:

Albatross, mabye i do wallow in my own self pity a tad to much, i accept that as it is my way to cope and i apologize for inflicting that upon you but the saying does go "Misery loves company"

All joking aside, I have little bit of experience in terms of the perspective from the other side of the fence. My partner is a teacher in a private school for kids with autism. I think such schools do valuable work, as having met and interacted with a lot of the pupils, I can confidently state that many such kids would be eaten alive by the mainstream schooling system. There just wouldn't be the support available to integrate large numbers of kids with severe learning difficulties, and their lives and education would undoubtedly suffer as a result. In Mrs. Albatross' school, there are small class numbers and a decent number of SEN personnel, meaning that kids get the attention and specialist support that they need to have a the best chance of a good quality of life. That wouldn't be possible in a mainstream school. Even from a purely selfish point of view, I would prefer that kids on the spectrum be placed into specialist education, rather than in a class with my son (who attends a mainstream state primary), for example. Autistic kids need a disproportionate amount of support and attention, as I've said, and that would impact upon the education of the other kids. That isn't acceptable to me.

Now, I'm not saying that I think the system is perfect - perhaps there are kids on the Autistic Spectrum who would benefit from being in mainstream school, who end up going to a special school - but what's a credible alternative? One of my best pals is a support worker for vulnerable adults, many of whom are severely Autistic, and let me tell you, the consequences for kids growing up without specialist support are chilling.

Changes have to happen but can't due to the label society gives us, much like wargamers.

That's not even remotely the same thing. Also, do you see being labeled as Autistic as the main thing precluding change in societal attitudes towards special education? I have to disagree.

I've spoken on issues of unfair treatment withoit the label and my views were taken into account, i've spoken once again and they've been dismissed because of that label. It's a strange biased world we live in.

Going back to my earlier post, 'kid hates school' - big shocker. You have to understand that to many of us, what you posted was insufferably whiny considering the opportunities you have, and have had. You are not being abused - taking away a kid's PS3 when they misbehave is not abuse.

@mattyrm - Mate, I never had you down as the 'I strongly believe this, therefore it must be true' -type. That's the sort of behaviour you attack religionists for. The fact is, you are not qualified to decide what is and what isn't a 'nonsense mental illness' - I'm pretty sure ADHD isn't classified as a mental illness, incidentally. And what does any of this have to do with our welfare system? Educational support is about doing what's best for the child, not absolving the parents of responsibility. You can be the wealthiest, most responsible parent in the land, but without the specialist skills needed to cope with looking after an Autistic child, how can you ever expect that child to lead a happy productive life? Please do me a favour, and I genuinely mean this - if you and the missus ever have a kid with severe learning difficulties, please don't attempt to everything on your own and refuse assistance out of macho pride. The kid will suffer, and they ain't handing out medals for it anyway.

Let me ask you this? Do you have everything you own labelled down as collateral for breaking idiotic rules created on a whim?

If a staff member takes a dislike to you your life becomes hell? A certain staff member at my school denied me food because she woke me up really early and I swore.

I'm a teenager and 6:30 isn't my time of day, nor is 10:30.

To give a gauge I lose 1-1.5 Stone every two weeks, putting me from underweight to nigh on anarexic. My metabolism is very high and I require around 3,500 Calories to put on weight. I only usually get one meal due to the times and staff permitance.

I don't attend school anymore due to everyone being no more intellectually able than a Electron, i say electron because they're always positively charged and can be set off by minute things for example a chair being im the wrong place.

Do you think that environment is best for me and my education? Before you say why haven't you reported said staff member, i have but the staff have mob mentality and stick up for each other. Zimbardo experiment springs to mind.

Answer me that, and don't go off and pick out the parts that support your statement better.

InquisitorVaron wrote:

DIDM wrote:public schools are autistic spectrum schools. More kids than you think are in the spectrum, most never get tested

In a school of a thousand around eighteen have Autism or Aspergers, do research before along such sweeping statements.

Well the school that I am employed at has 317 students. Fourteen of those students are diagnosed with either Autism or Asperger's Syndrome and are currently on my case-load. A few studies are reporting a prevalence of 2.6%. Most places still say 1 in 110. Personally I think there are a lot more than that.

As far as placement is concerned, I personally believe that a specialized school would be much more beneficial to children with Autism, especially some of the more low functioning ones. They are all grouped together in most public schools and they are very different from children Asperger's Syndrome. In my class I have kids who do Algebra and others who cannot communicate or even preform daily self care skills.

The specialized school for children with autism will often have a variety of educational approaches that can be tailored to the needs of a particular child. When it comes to behavioral needs, there's often a full team of psychologists, a social worker, and a functional behavioral analyst. Each of these key individuals will have a very good understanding of a behavioral intervention plan and are more adept to handing various crises when significant behavioral issues occur. In public schools you will often run into barriers with some of the General Education teachers who do not take behavior intervention plans as serious as they should. Often they do not follow through with data collection or the modifications that have been made for the student to be as successful as they could.

A specialized center for children and families with autism also has additional family supports available in most instances as well. So, by going to a specialized setting, you're often as a family in a situation to access more specialized services that can address the needs of a broader range of children.

Agreed, the system suits a broader range of students.
I'm currently working my way out of my school, It's not for me.