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Hi Dakka,
Call me crazy, but i have always undercoated my models by hand. I was wondering if the Games workshop spray is worth it?
Are there other alternatives? (in South Australia).
Thanks
Norn King

Fiddly bits is a pretty good spray primer. You should be able to get it a hardware shop. The end result is the same colour as sprue, though....

GW spray is worth it if there is nothing else ^^

Will having the same colour as the spru as an undercoat affect my painting?

Honestly I love it. I bought some off brand black primer thinking nothing would be different.(made for tabletop models) Then I sprayed some SM scouts and it was horrible. Really chalky and blocked out the fine details. Made painting the models a nightmare because I had to spend time getting all the gunk off. Hand painting them black is never a bad idea. The Citadel just makes its more time efficient.

I was the same way, doing undercoats by hand.. Took way too long..

Bought a can of the GW Chaos Black and it works like a champ. Combine that with Ultramarine Blue Spray and I get a ton of painting done extremely fast.

How does White and Black spray differ from each other? (eg, final product)

I use army painter sprays. They work pretty well and come in more colours then GWs.

Priming black will help give you a darker colour, priming white gives you a lighter colour overall

Is it right that the white and black spray that GW offer aren't actually primers? They are paints, but not primers, so really you need something else for basic undercoating.

Norn King wrote:Hi Dakka,
Call me crazy, but i have always undercoated my models by hand. I was wondering if the Games workshop spray is worth it?
Are there other alternatives? (in South Australia).
Thanks
Norn King

GW sprays/primers are NEVER worth it. You are paying a premium to get a spray at the same time you buy your models (and for the logo on the can).

I hear that GW sprays have finecast dust in them which is why they are so costly...

I use the $1 wallmart black paint for primer. Works just fine for me. Just make sure you shake it well, and all will be okay.

Vulcan wrote:I use the $1 wallmart black paint for primer. Works just fine for me. Just make sure you shake it well, and all will be okay.

This, if you can't afford an airbrush setup. I only prime with VMA gray primer in an airbrush these days.

Norn King wrote:Call me crazy, but i have always undercoated my models by hand.

You're crazy. You won't get anywhere near as even coverage that way, and unless you're using an actual primer (GW hasn't done one for years) then your minis will be very vulnerable to chipping compared to spray-primed ones.

thanks for all the input guys, i reckon i mights just stick to the GW chaos black spray.

GW spray is expensive for what it is, but it does the job fine. Be advised, however, that it isn't actually the same as the chaos black in the pot, so if you intend to leave an area painted black, give it a light coat of thinned down pot-black first so if you need to make any corrections, the colour will match.

(it seems weird to have different "colours" of black, but it's more a question of different finishes and there being a tiny bit of blue/green in the black that comes in the pots)

Aerethan wrote:

Vulcan wrote:I use the $1 wallmart black paint for primer. Works just fine for me. Just make sure you shake it well, and all will be okay.

This, if you can't afford an airbrush setup. I only prime with VMA gray primer in an airbrush these days.

I second this, VMA primer is amazing.

I've used Citadel sprays before, and they worked fine. The can just didn't last long enough, so it was a bit of a $ issue.

Then I moved over to Krylon Indoor/Outdoor primer, usually in flat grey.

If in a pinch, Rustoleum works well as a primer as well.

As for the basecoating, most any spray paint will work. I would stick to Satin to Flat finishes though.

I use Vallejo Black Polyurethane Primer. It's brush-on, so I don't have to learn spray techniques (you can airbrush it too ) which is a good thing as I live on the coast in the UK and our humidity is usually over 60% at all times.

The primer does come in grey, unlike the GW offerings, so you can get a more balanced starting tone.

Vis-a-vis A Kvlt Ghost's comments, this stuff shrinkwraps the model as it dries and is a true primer, according to Vallejo.

Brunius wrote:Fiddly bits is a pretty good spray primer. You should be able to get it a hardware shop. The end result is the same colour as sprue, though....

This. Except that you can get matte black colour, which, of course, makes it black.
You can pick it up from bunnings for 3-4 dollars, and it works excellently on plastic & metal. (haven't tried resin yet-)

I have to say do not use Fiddle Bits as it melted my fallcast model.

- ironhandstraken

It works fine for me.

I always worry when people buy ridiculously expensive models them turn some cheap and nasty spray paint on them.

Norn King wrote:Will having the same colour as the spru as an undercoat affect my painting?

Yes. And its sprue.

XCom wrote:Honestly I love it. I bought some off brand black primer thinking nothing would be different.(made for tabletop models) Then I sprayed some SM scouts and it was horrible. Really chalky and blocked out the fine details. Made painting the models a nightmare because I had to spend time getting all the gunk off. Hand painting them black is never a bad idea. The Citadel just makes its more time efficient.

Power, brotha.

GW spray paint is expensive, but its easy. it is a model spray paint that provides instant gratification.

Jtaugner wrote:I was the same way, doing undercoats by hand.. Took way too long..

Bought a can of the GW Chaos Black and it works like a champ. Combine that with Ultramarine Blue Spray and I get a ton of painting done extremely fast.

Agreed. only, I paint my basecoat by hand. I don't cheat.

Norn King wrote:How does White and Black spray differ from each other? (eg, final product)

They do differ, White undercoat produces generally more clear and brighter results. If you want a model to stand out, use white undercoat.

If you plan on weathering the model, consider black primer. it makes a model look darker, and he'll look weird if he's bright and dirty.

I'll give you an example of the difference:

This model



is done with white undercoat. it is a lot brighter, and it is fairly pleasing.

This model here:



(both models can be found here http://eotndiaord.blogspot.com/)

is done with blacks.

Notice how on the first, even though it is painted with mechrite red, the red is significantly brighter.

The second's red, is still mechrite red but is significantly darker.

I hope this thoroughly explains the difference.

All i know is its really expensive lol, cant remember how much it used to be but my wallet hurt alittle from buying it.

But i suppose it lasts long enough and can undercoat alot of models, i used to undercoat by hand and its a real pain. So yeah its worth getting.

Chaos Black spray is paint as you point out in your title.

I covers well and takes undercoat well enough.

What I found when I used it was that it doesn't actually adhere as well to metal models as it does to plastic. Not a problem if the model is fully varnished bit it does chip quite badly in use if not.

A proper primer on the other hand should minimise/get rid of this proplem.

I now use Vallejo poly primer through an airbrush because it is cost effective but any spray primer will have the same effect. If you can lay you hand on it for $1-5 then so much the better. Whats GW at the moment £9/$15?

I now use Vallejo poly primer through an airbrush because it is cost effective...

This is the single biggest reason I'd suggest for spending £100 in getting an airbrush setup. Considering a can of Chaos Black is now £9.50 (??!!?!!!?!!), it won't take long to recoup your investment.

Plus it doesn't clog. And it's reliable in a range of conditions. And you can varnish with it.

Too true, Its also invaluable for painting tanks ; I couldn't go back to brushes - too much work!

I also tried swapping to Army Painter before getting the AB and that was allot worse than GW (thats if you can get it out of the can!).

Howard A Treesong wrote:Is it right that the white and black spray that GW offer aren't actually primers? They are paints, but not primers, so really you need something else for basic undercoating.

No, this is an internet rumour with no actual evidence to support it.

If anyone has any, please show it, because I have seen this statement repeated all over the internet and as far as I can tell it's bunk.

I have seen no appreciable difference between GW spray and other brands which are labelled as primer other than price (and sometimes the other brands going grain/fuzzy on me). If I don't varnish models, they scratch (although rarely since I'm careful), if I do, zero scratching regardless of primer type.

Then you can support your ascertion that it is a primer then? I'm pretty sure it says it is paint.

I have sprayed plenty of minis with Chaos Black Spray over the last 20 years or so and can tell you that it will chip just in gaming use. It will also come off if you are heavy handed like me with the metal collars on brushes.

I have used primers on minis that won't even come of in Ultramors (commercial paint stripper) never mind gaming. There is a difference between the two.

Always prime, and always spray prime. It sticks so much better. IMHO the citadel sprays are a little expensive, but we are talking £9 rather than £7, realy not that much more.

If you want to try other paints then go for it, but test first. I always go for a model specific spraypaint rather than any old stuff as the loss of one mini to a dodgy can will cost more than you are saving.

Having said that Forgeworld recomend priming with car primer (which is gray. Most of there minis on the site are gray for this reason) then putting a white or black base on, then spraying with another colour if your mini is mostly one colour.

One day I will get an airbrush and I would recomend anyone else to get one, if only to base coat. Its just a matter of having the room to set up a compresser, as can powerd ones are not realy worth it.