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I've known about livestock cruelty for a while now, but I'm at that age where I stop remaining ambivalent to issues, and I'm really disturbed. Hard to explain. I got a pamphlet from a girl in her twenties that I actually read front to back, and it's just inspired me to think differently about it. Chickens in particular are put through enormous hardship to end up on your dinner table,and unfortunately, chicken is my most favorite thing in the world.. I've done some research, and it would certainly be possible to live a vegetarian lifestyle, but I just can't bring myself to do it.
Honestly, I'm starting to think that buying 'cage free/free range' is probably a bolder statement than not eating it at all. We've been eating meat products for as long as we've stood upright, and I don't think it's natural to completely remove them from your diet. My mother buys free range chickens, organic vegetables, cage free eggs... The works. So right now, I'm not necessarily contributing to the problem. But when I leave home and don't have money to buy the organic stuff, I will be, so I've got a lot on my mind.
I'm a vegetarian actually, but mainly for taste reasons (meat is disgusting to me).
I agree on animal welfare though. I try to limit cruelty to other sentient animals with free range eggs/milk.
But it's not worth keeping up at night over.
Ever thought 40k would be a lot better with bears?
Codex: Bears.
NOW WITH MR BIGGLES AND HIS AMAZING FLYING CONTRAPTION
I feel animal welfare is important. But i like the taste of meat. So i'm not a vegetarian but i do feel animal welfare is important. I tried being veggie for a while but i didn't like the substitute so i had to go back to meat.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/17 10:22:17
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Watch for Gerry.
Being serious though, I respect vegetarians, but I like bacon too much to ever be one! However, I do feel that livestock should be well treated. Its not fair to give tham a horrible life as well as killing and eating them.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/12/17 00:24:03
People do know that 'Organic' is just a label farmers use to get more money per product right? When I was in my second year at university, my lecturer pointed out what a big con Organic food is. Its no different from ordinary farming. I've never and will never buy organic/free-range or whatever the Label of The Month is.
I don't think it really matters what happens. The animal is going to be killed anyway.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/12/17 00:24:14
So many people do it. I can't believe they find this movie disturbing. I am an Australian Cowboy I Have skinned animals. I stopped caring after I first shot a deer.
Its necessary. Meat is good. Why not want to have the food. People can't eat like us why waste the food just means that food is going to get wasted somewhere.
Steak is good.
Pork is Good.
Lamb Chops are good.
Hot Dogs are good.
I stopped caring about what people say. I Have read The Jungle, The Night, and The Secret Fan. (all of which are horriblely disgustingly detailed.)
Sorry but the documentary just makes me angry that people want other people to know that the food they eat is from slaughtered lifestock? Hello this has been happening for hundreds of years. Stop caring about animals so much. Start caring for other human beings.
Animals are just like humans in emotions thats it. They aren't human so they won't be treated like humans. I refuse to treat anything that is not human like another human. I will not give animals freedoms because we are suppose to eat them....
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
If you weren't meant to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?
But in seriousness, I don't have an issue with eating meat, though I have taken to eating "meat replacements" as often as I eat actual meat. It is often cheaper (especially when it is on offer), and can be healthier in terms of fat content etc, depending on the cut of meat you compare it with, and how you cook it. Nothing to do with the living conditions of meat animals, though I would like to think that we are moving towards universally eliminating some of the more extreme animal raising practices.
I don't think it really matters what happens. The animal is going to be killed anyway.
I see that, I really do. These animals were more likely than not, entirely bred to be consumed. But that doesn't prevent me from pitying them. They're still deserving of respect, in my opinion. What's that Japanese Beef? Kobe? They give the cows wine and treat them like kings because they found that a relaxed, healthy cow is a good tasting cow. When you stress it out, feed it ground up cow parts and keep it in a pen with six inches to move around in, it tastes bad. If for no other reason than to make it taste better, cows and livestock should be treated properly.
Of course, I can see why people don't agree. "It's getting its skull smashed anyway, why should I care how it lives?"
They give the cows wine and treat them like kings because they found that a relaxed, healthy cow is a good tasting cow. When you stress it out, feed it ground up cow parts and keep it in a pen with six inches to move around in, it tastes bad.
Is there an actual, proper, scientific article that proves this? or is it personal opinion? Overcrowding is bad, but you can still farm normally without overcrowding.
Besides, that meat will probably be far too expensive to be worth bothering with. (much like organic in general)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/12/17 00:40:51
As beef consumption became more prominent in society, farmers began hiring workers to massage the animals' backsides to improve meat quality. The mountainous topography of the islands of Japan resulted in small regions of isolated breeding, yielding herds that developed and maintained qualities in their meat that differ significantly from all other breeds of cattle. Herd isolation and distinctive feeding techniques, which resulted from the limited land availability, have led to distinguishing features that make the meat both superior in marbling and in the ratios of unsaturated versus saturated fats.
The japanese treat it as a delicacy, rather than a staple. If we had the same sort of fish oriented diet, we could too. But that's clearly out of the question.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/17 00:42:47
As beef consumption became more prominent in society, farmers began hiring workers to massage the animals' backsides to improve meat quality. The mountainous topography of the islands of Japan resulted in small regions of isolated breeding, yielding herds that developed and maintained qualities in their meat that differ significantly from all other breeds of cattle. Herd isolation and distinctive feeding techniques, which resulted from the limited land availability, have led to distinguishing features that make the meat both superior in marbling and in the ratios of unsaturated versus saturated fats.
The japanese treat it as a delicacy, rather than a staple. If we had the same sort of fish oriented diet, we could too. But that's clearly out of the question.[/quote
Won't take lectures on animal cruelty from a nation that wholesale slaughters intelligent mammals.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzuSULcqgxQ You can hear them screaming in pain.
Animal welfare standards should be improved, yes. But eating meat is not immoral, and the kill itself only takes a few seconds (and I say that as a vegetarian).
Ever thought 40k would be a lot better with bears?
Codex: Bears.
NOW WITH MR BIGGLES AND HIS AMAZING FLYING CONTRAPTION
Oh, I must have just totally made all that up, hurr durr, Because I'm clearly trying to mislead you with some made up story of happy, content cows.
There's a little section called references right there.
Your missing the point. You aren't posting great sources. Your citing News articles and Wikipedia pretty much only. Its difficult to form a proper opinion without backup from a scientific Journal. Surely if this meat is this good...there would be some form of Agricultural journal on it?
Also...£40 burgers? seriously? I'd throw the menu at the waiters face if he dared to actually charge that amount. Thats outrageous.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/17 01:00:07
They give the cows wine and treat them like kings because they found that a relaxed, healthy cow is a good tasting cow. When you stress it out, feed it ground up cow parts and keep it in a pen with six inches to move around in, it tastes bad.
Is there an actual, proper, scientific article that proves this? or is it personal opinion? Overcrowding is bad, but you can still farm normally without overcrowding.
Besides, that meat will probably be far too expensive to be worth bothering with. (much like organic in general)
Its what they eat, cows are sometimes fed ground up cow parts and other artificial substances that affect the taste of the actual meat. Kobe beef is incredibly tender and delicious because of what they eat, compared to McDonald beef that comes from cows fed all sorts of unnatural things.
Its also why people don't like the taste of fish who are bottom feeders that eat refuse.
Its what they eat, cows are sometimes fed ground up cow parts and other artificial substances that affect the taste of the actual meat. Kobe beef is incredibly tender and delicious because of what they eat, compared to McDonald beef that comes from cows fed all sorts of unnatural things.
But is this actually provable scientifically? or is it just personal opinion shaped by our prior knowledge of animal living conditions that is causing us to think theres a difference? Can we get repeatable results?
I can't taste the difference between once piece of beef and another personally.
EDIT: There we go, a Review, finally.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/17 01:03:23
Mr Hyena wrote:People do know that 'Organic' is just a label farmers use to get more money per product right? When I was in my second year at university, my lecturer pointed out what a big con Organic food is. Its no different from ordinary farming. I've never and will never buy organic/free-range or whatever the Label of The Month is.
This might be true in the UK, but in the US, food has to meet some pretty specific standards to be considered organic. I wouldn't consider it a con at all in the US, and part of the reason organic food is more expensive in the US is because it's a lot more expensive to produce.
I am a vegetarian, and I really don't find it all that difficult.
I do object to people saying that meat is "necessary" though. We really don't have to eat it: I am perfectly healthy, and live an active lifestyle. I wouldn't dream of forcing others not to eat meat, but I prefer it if people concede that meat is not necessary and can be substituted with proper dietary planning.
The problem is the level of dietary planning you have to do to maintain a healthy vegan diet, while assuring that you get the right vitamins and minerals.
It feels very unnatural to a lot of people and isn't cheap. In this day and age; theres enough to be planned out. Simple food is often the best food.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/12/17 01:11:04
Its what they eat, cows are sometimes fed ground up cow parts and other artificial substances that affect the taste of the actual meat. Kobe beef is incredibly tender and delicious because of what they eat, compared to McDonald beef that comes from cows fed all sorts of unnatural things.
But is this actually provable scientifically? or is it just personal opinion shaped by our prior knowledge of animal living conditions that is causing us to think theres a difference? Can we get repeatable results?
I can't taste the difference between once piece of beef and another personally.
EDIT: There we go, a Review, finally.
Reason you can't tell the difference is because you probably aren't eating different kinds of beef. As far as "free-range" is concerned, it usually means that they are eating fresher grasses compared to their own kind and antibiotics. How much exercise and diet affects the taste of an animal, veal comes from infant calves who are not permitted to exercise their legs.
Certain foods also change the smell/taste of your farts, urine, and sweat. This is all due to your body doing what it can with what it is given.
Meat itself as a necessity, it was. Back in the old times there were no such things as supplements and a lot of the foods we enjoy now are relatively new like peanut butter which is a godly food, but bad for you in high amounts. Peanut butter has a ton of proteins but also contains a lot of carbohydrates and fats that do damage in large quantities. Meats gave us proteins along with other matter that we can and do digest like amino acids. Meats also provide a lot of fats which is actually good for metabolism as the average fat molecule will create more cellular energy than a molecule of a carbohydrate, fats are also used to make certain hormones and the cellular membranes of your cells and organelles. Fat is necessary to the diet, just not too much of it .
Human beings are not ruminating animals which means we cannot digest cellulose found in many plants. We can eat fruits, veggies, and legumes, but not grasses. Our body is also good at digesting meats and while we were not designed to rip and tear meat we do have an appendix that is believed to have stored bacteria helpful in digesting raw meat. The biggest issue comes with what we make our meat with.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/12/17 01:26:23
They give the cows wine and treat them like kings because they found that a relaxed, healthy cow is a good tasting cow. When you stress it out, feed it ground up cow parts and keep it in a pen with six inches to move around in, it tastes bad.
Is there an actual, proper, scientific article that proves this? or is it personal opinion? Overcrowding is bad, but you can still farm normally without overcrowding.
Besides, that meat will probably be far too expensive to be worth bothering with. (much like organic in general)
And that my good sir is called Cobe Beef, ridiculously over priced, tender and tasty as all heck and speaking as an ex cook not worth selling, damn idiot customers get hard for shew-leather steak )well done)
And yes there's a fair bit of stuff you can find on the interwebs about it, just search cobe beef (probably spelt it wrong but whatever)
Mr Hyena wrote:The problem is the level of dietary planning you have to do to maintain a healthy vegan diet, while assuring that you get the right vitamins and minerals.
It feels very unnatural to a lot of people and isn't cheap. In this day and age; theres enough to be planned out. Simple food is often the best food.
I dunno, it really doesn't feel complex... I just ensure that there's variety in my diet, and that I eat a lot of spinach.
Not too expensive, but I will admit I put a fair bit of time into cooking. The end result is often well worth the means though!
I stopped eating meat about a year ago after going to Nepal. The butcher shops there were about as sanitary as a men's room in a bar at around 11:30 on a Friday night. When I came back home, I just stopped eating it. I feel healthier now and a lot less sluggish.
I would like to say "survival of the fittest" and leave it at that. But its not always that simple is it?
Actually.... no. It is that simple. Survival of the fittest baby!
It doesn't bother me that we slaughter thousands of animals a day/week/month/whatever and then throw away what we dont eat. What bothers me is self righteous Vego/Vegan "Holier then thou" jerkwads that hand me a "Dont eat meat or your going to hell" pamphlet and then yell bloody murder at me for being a meat eating bastard beacause i look at the defeathered chickens hangin upside down and say "Hmm tasty". Did i provoke them by saying hmm tasty? Yes I almost certainly did. Should they have tried to cram their nonmeat stance down my throat like i cram chicken nuggets? No. Not they should not have.
Vegetarians are alright, vegans are a pain in the ass to cook for. Have you tried making tofurky taste good? Its nearly impossible without spending twenty or so bucks on the seasoning for it.
I'm personally cutting down on a lot of red meat because I'm trying to lose weight and not bulk up at the same time, veggie burgers are alright but I still love chicken and beef when I can.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/17 01:40:51
Its what they eat, cows are sometimes fed ground up cow parts and other artificial substances that affect the taste of the actual meat. Kobe beef is incredibly tender and delicious because of what they eat, compared to McDonald beef that comes from cows fed all sorts of unnatural things.
But is this actually provable scientifically? or is it just personal opinion shaped by our prior knowledge of animal living conditions that is causing us to think theres a difference? Can we get repeatable results?
I can't taste the difference between once piece of beef and another personally.
EDIT: There we go, a Review, finally.
Reason you can't tell the difference is because you probably aren't eating different kinds of beef. As far as "free-range" is concerned, it usually means that they are eating fresher grasses compared to their own kind and antibiotics. How much exercise and diet affects the taste of an animal, veal comes from infant calves who are not permitted to exercise their legs.
Certain foods also change the smell/taste of your farts, urine, and sweat. This is all due to your body doing what it can with what it is given.
Meat itself as a necessity, it was. Back in the old times there were no such things as supplements and a lot of the foods we enjoy now are relatively new like peanut butter which is a godly food, but bad for you in high amounts. Peanut butter has a ton of proteins but also contains a lot of carbohydrates and fats that do damage in large quantities. Meats gave us proteins along with other matter that we can and do digest like amino acids. Meats also provide a lot of fats which is actually good for metabolism as the average fat molecule will create more cellular energy than a molecule of a carbohydrate, fats are also used to make certain hormones and the cellular membranes of your cells and organelles. Fat is necessary to the diet, just not too much of it .
Human beings are not ruminating animals which means we cannot digest cellulose found in many plants. We can eat fruits, veggies, and legumes, but not grasses. Our body is also good at digesting meats and while we were not designed to rip and tear meat we do have an appendix that is believed to have stored bacteria helpful in digesting raw meat. The biggest issue comes with what we make our meat with.
Thats fine and all, but personally I'm not going to eat supplements and never will. I'm not a freak. I'll eat a normal diet.
Vegetarians are alright, vegans are a pain in the ass to cook for. Have you tried making tofurky taste good? Its nearly impossible without spending twenty or so bucks on the seasoning for it.
This is the problem. Until no supplements to the food is required and until we get better vegan alternatives to meat that taste 100% like meat, while being as cheap as or cheaper than normal meat...then it can't really be considered a great lifestyle.
The best diet is still mainly veg/fruit, with a good helping of meat (split between White Meat, Fish/Seafood and Red Meat (for iron and fat)) and dark chocolate (in small amounts, very good for the heart.)
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/12/17 01:44:27
Vegans and vegetarians usually have to take supplements for certain vitamins. Especially females who don't like spinach, they need a lot of iron supplements.
" -KingCracker
However, I do feel that livestock should be well treated. Its not fair to give tham a horrible life as well as killing and eating them.
And if you're drinkin' well, you know that you're my friend and I say "I think I'll have myself a beer" 
