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Grey Knights CAN fall to chaos heres proof

when a Grey Knight catches the plague of Nurgle, his soul then transforms into a plaguebearer daemon in the garden of Nurgle thus becoming a follower of chaos

also if a Grey Knight kills Lucius, then he becomes Lucius himself thus follows chaos

so yeah I just pwned all of the non believers s

Source please

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:Source please

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Plaguebearer

Unlike other Daemons that are born from a tiny piece of a Chaos God's power splitting into a seperate being, Plaguebearers are born from the energy of mortal souls succumbing to Nurgle's Rot.3a

Its obvious that Grey Knights have fought Nurgle before so I'm pretty sure that many has been infected with the plague

Not sure a GK would allow himself to live long enough to die from Nurgle's Rot...
At any rate OP is looking like a troll based on previous posts...
It's also said repeatedly that no GK has ever fallen to Chaos and considering that Nurgle's Rot is both a spiritual and physical corruption only the physical part of it would conceivably work...

Have you taken any logic courses? It's one of the first things you learn in logic, one of the basic rules...

A implies B
but B does not implies A, just because you have plaugebearers, who are created from mortal souls corrupted by the plauge, does not imply that a GK caught the plague and died... doesn't prove he can't though either, so logic basically says... can't prove nothing

These progresses described by you have nothing to do with a 'fall to chaos'. The physical progress that turns you in a plague bearer or makes you to Lucius is more comparable to the spell of a psyker turning your flesh into a mutated blob as the warp uses force to modify you in the things the psyker/Nurgle/Slaanesh wants. This can co so far that they can utilize the power of your soul to bring a plague bearer or Lucius (even back) to life. As your quote states, it uses the energy of the soul to born a plaguebearer not turns the soul to a loyal servant of Nurgle and after all Lucius stay Lucius after each of his 'reborns' as his soul goes into the new body and not do his murderer becomes a servant of Slaanesh.

The 'Fall to Chaos' implies the person serve the dark gods on it's free will and no Grey Knight did ever do such a thing.

And the whole thing with lucius... isn't it only if they derive some pleasure from killing him do they become him? and GK's don't take pleasure really from killing them

All it would do is corrupt the Body, which has happened. But No he would not fall to chaos or be corrupted spiritually in the lest.

Dying via nurgle's rot is no more falling to chaos than falling to a lucky sorcerer and a gift of chaos spell. Your body may be corrupted, but in the case of the Grey Knight's I'm pretty sure that they have the strength of will to make sure that their soul goes to the right place.

Now part A is just plain ol' trollin'. Now part B could be an issue. Iirc it says anyone who even has a sliver of pride will be transformed into Lucius. Now like all space marines grey knights strike me as extrmely pridefull and the brother who defeats him will take pride in his slaying of Lucius. Just putting that out there.

The examples are needlessly obtuse. The Gift of Chaos spell can be used on Grey Knights, turning them into a Spawn attacking their fellow Grey Knights.

Still not the same as being corrupted by the lure of chaos and falling to its power willingly though.

I could argue that the transformation to Lucius is willingly. You start it by willingly feeling pride that you killed him.

Ward couls have avoided this by just saying its possible for a GK to fall to Chaos but its extremely rare due to their mental conditioning. It would have given them aflaw which would have made them actually have some character.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:I could argue that the transformation to Lucius is willingly. You start it by willingly feeling pride that you killed him.

Ward couls have avoided this by just saying its possible for a GK to fall to Chaos but its extremely rare due to their mental conditioning. It would have given them aflaw which would have made them actually have some character.

Perhaps. But then Ward would have broken with the previous (including pre-Lucius) canon. So the fault would seem to lie with the people who came up with Lucius. That aside, we don't know what would happen to a GK who slays Lucius. Maybe he does feel pride and still doesn't go chaos/lucius, simply because his training allows him to resist. Who ever said the Lucius-effect must trump the GK-resiliance to corruption?

Also, finally, the words Ward used were "no Grey Knight has ever fallen to the lure of Chaos, and none shall do so now." It doesn't really rule out the hypothetical possiblity that they could. Infact, their flawless trackrecord wouldn't be so impressive if they had some auto-immunity. They dont. And they are frequently tempted, as is Draigo in his eternal purgatory of impotence in the Warp. Perhaps one day a GK will fall to Chaos. It has just never, ever happend so far.

Good point. Would like to see that in fluff even if we know how it would turn out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Good point. Would like to see that in fluff even if we know how it would turn out.

Please don't fall for it, folks. The guy's name is "Khornate Psyker", and based on his other threads, these are all troll attempts. Some are funny, but all are sad.

What is I don't even.

Yes, their bodies can be corrupted, but their souls cannot, and that's whats important.

As a footnote, proppa gramma and sepplig is required on Dakka.

What is a GK meant to do when their body becomes corrupted? Can they stay that way or do they have to do something drastic?

Also the title of the thread bugs me.

nomotog wrote:What is a GK meant to do when their body becomes corrupted? Can they stay that way or do they have to do something drastic?

Also the title of the thread bugs me.

Probably just shoot themselves...
Seems like a fairly good idea...

Proof that this theory is so full of holes that it isn't even worth arguing about?

Kanluwen hasn't deigned to put in an appearance to refute it.

'Nuff said.

Remember he is a chaos player... Not a troll but the 2 go hand in hand... Ha

KhornePysker wrote:

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:Source please

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Plaguebearer

Unlike other Daemons that are born from a tiny piece of a Chaos God's power splitting into a seperate being, Plaguebearers are born from the energy of mortal souls succumbing to Nurgle's Rot.3a

Its obvious that Grey Knights have fought Nurgle before so I'm pretty sure that many has been infected with the plague

how in the name of the Emperor is being pretty sure any sort of proof? Good thing you aren't a scientist, I'm pretty sure it would not work out well between you and your peers

Why is this even a topic? Of course they can fall to Chaos. It's their greatest fear. Every publication with them mentions this.

None ever have. None probably ever will. But it's not impossible.

Did they change lucius fluff? Originally it was just anyone who has bested him became him....

Ah I found it it says anyone who slays him and takes even a moment of triumph from the act will find himself transforming. A sort of "yes he's dead atlas...oh b?@&¿¤€s" moment.

Actually looking at it a Grey Knight could become Lucius as even a GK would feel success after slaying him you need to be a Cyberman to not feel success from killing something like Lucius (especially if it's your job to do that)

but before people fly off the handle I still class that as not falling to Chaos. To fall for something you have to do it willingly. Turning into Lucius is forced(slowly and painfully) and there isn't a point where you can say no i'm not gonna turn into Lucius.

As for Nurgles rot and the plague bearer question they become plaguebearers if th victims start worshiping Nurgle. The rot does rot the soul aswell as the body but its still a choice at the end.

So GKs still can keep thier record and if any did turn into Lucius I assume they either change on a mission (so are pronounced dead anyway) or somthing else (pack my toothbrush i'm leaving is my guess) and i doubt being killed by another gk will help ("you die brother but we saved you from turning....damn it I feelsuccessful")

GentlemanGuy wrote:

Actually looking at it a Grey Knight could become Lucius as even a GK would feel success after slaying him you need to be a Cyberman to not feel success from killing something like Lucius (especially if it's your job to do that)

Still, even IF you consider turning into Lucius as falling to Chaos, it evidently has not happened yet in the fluff. No GK has, in the past of 40K, slain Lucius. So their track record of "no Grey Knight has ever fallen to Chaos" remains untarnished. Given the past tense in the OPs original "proof", that seems a rather strange oversight. Noone ever claimed no GK will ever fall to Chaos. Just that no GK has done so so far. And the first GK to fall to Chaos might be conceivably one that kills Lucius (under the condition above, that we would count it as falling to Chaos), if they ever meet, but they haven't do so until the "present" of 40K as it stands.

And finally, there is still the theoretical possiblity that the Lucius-trick simply wont work: (1) GK kills Lucius. (2) GK feels pride in ridding the world from this Chaos Menace. (3) GK feels himself starting to turn into something else by an ancient Chaos curse. (4) GK breathes deeply, draws on his training and mental fortitude and resists the change, so long Chaos curse. (5) GK continues being a GK and slays more Chaos stuff.

But the greyknight has still given the curse it's chance by feeling triumph for that kill. He can turn to his training but most likely that would forestall the transformation not prevent it. As i said earlier though its forced on him he isnt actually falling to chaos at all

Isn't that like saying tah someone who has been turned into a servitor/arco-flagellated/put in to a Penitent Engine has "seen the light" and converted to Imperial faith?

GentlemanGuy wrote:i doubt being killed by another gk will help ("you die brother but we saved you from turning....damn it I feelsuccessful")

I seriously doubt a GK would feel any sort of triumph over killing one of his brothers. From their indoctrination fluff, and their presentation in the GK Omnibus, most rank-and-file GK are quite humorless and emotionless, caring only about destroying the enemy.

I wouldn't doubt that there's an unspoken understanding among all GK that if one of their number becomes corrupted by outside influences, the rest will quickly put him down. A GK faced with this unpleasant duty would probably feel nothing more than a steadfast sense of duty and necessity, and perhaps a hint of repressed regret at the passing of a battle-brother.

Omegus wrote:

GentlemanGuy wrote:i doubt being killed by another gk will help ("you die brother but we saved you from turning....damn it I feelsuccessful")

I seriously doubt a GK would feel any sort of triumph over killing one of his brothers. From their indoctrination fluff, and their presentation in the GK Omnibus, most rank-and-file GK are quite humorless and emotionless, caring only about destroying the enemy.

I wouldn't doubt that there's an unspoken understanding among all GK that if one of their number becomes corrupted by outside influences, the rest will quickly put him down. A GK faced with this unpleasant duty would probably feel nothing more than a steadfast sense of duty and necessity, and perhaps a hint of repressed regret at the passing of a battle-brother.

Even Guardsmen do that...

Someone please lock this thread.

After dealing with admiral9's threads, I am in no mood to be drawn into another one.

GK would rather die than be corrupted by Plaguebearers and they probably would.

GentlemanGuy wrote:But the greyknight has still given the curse it's chance by feeling triumph for that kill. He can turn to his training but most likely that would forestall the transformation not prevent it. As i said earlier though its forced on him he isnt actually falling to chaos at all

And? Nothing in the fluff says that no Grey Knight has ever been tempted. Nothing says no Grey Knight has ever almost fallen to Chaos. I am sure alot of them have been and did. All it says is that no Grey Knight has ever actually fallen to Chaos so far. Again, that track-record would be meaningless if there wasn't ever a danger of falling to Chaos. Quite the opposite. That danger is ever-present. Chaos is always devising new ways to lure even a Grey Knight in, no doubt. And one day, perhaps, a Grey Knight will eventually succumb. All the book says is that no Grey Knight has done so until now (meaning the 41st millenium presence of 40K). This is a notable achievement precisely because it goes against all odds.