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Hey guys,

VCs are a relatively recent line... well I've bought two new finecast models. One in a GW store (which I inspected) and one by mail order.

The one I got in the store was Isabella Von Carstein, and she was flawless barring a bubble on her cloak which I was able to fill in, I otherwise have no complaints.

The one I got by mail was Heinrich Kemmler and is my first 100% decent finecast; absolutely no problem was identifiable whatsoever... the flash was a tad bit irritating (a bunch had formed around his hair), but I was otherwise happy.

Though I would say I was of the experience that Finecast is an experience of Russian Roulette, as I've had some pretty glaring problems in the past (Scorpions with mal-formed feet and backs, Draigo missing a whole slab of his shield), I feel like the gamble of actually ordering Kemmler paid off.

I don't know if I'll drop my caution yet, I felt compelled to at least post about a positive experience since I am of the belief that Finecast is an issue which has a 'silent majority' of mostly satisfied customers, with only those who get really screwed being the vocal opponents.


Edit:

Decided to add pictures in case there's a 'pics or it didn't happen' crowd:





You can see the rounded hole on Isabella's cloak, in the middle of the bottom-left tear.

Henners91 wrote:

I don't know if I'll drop my caution yet, I felt compelled to at least post about a positive experience since I am of the belief that Finecast is an issue which has a 'silent majority' of mostly satisfied customers, with only those who get really screwed being the vocal opponents.

ive always wondered that myself. Clearly there are issues but if it was as bad as this forum leads you to believe i dont think GW would sell them.

Theres always a bais on forums towards faults as angry people are more likely to post than satisfied customers.

Those models of yours look fantastic.

Without comparative numerical data I can't see how we would be able to make a judgement.

Still, it's great that you got two models which only had fairly minor defects.

Did you take them straight off the peg, or did you look through a few to get the best ones?

Still managed to notice a ton of flash; dunno why photos can pick up gak that my incompetent eyes clearly can't

But thanks anyway - happy to have won the 'roulette' this time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I am wondering if it would be prudent to re-purpose this as a 'post your successful Finecast purchases' thread?

If you need a thread to show you got a non-defective item then I'd say the problem is far from solved...

CT GAMER wrote:If you need a thread to show you got a non-defective item then I'd say the problem is far from solved...

I'd suggest you take a look at the "Finecast--Not A Hate Thread" and see why it's not such a bad idea.

People are willing to take you at your word when you say that you dug through the racks, discarding dozens of models before finding one which "still looks pretty bad", but the minute you say you had a flawless cast but didn't think to photograph it before priming/painting it becomes irrefutable proof that you're just white knighting.

I think we should make a dakka thread where everyone who buys finecast tries to post there experiences good or bad. That way we could get a decent sample size to see how common problems really are.

carlos13th wrote:I think we should make a dakka thread where everyone who buys finecast tries to post there experiences good or bad. That way we could get a decent sample size to see how common problems really are.

Dakka represents but a tiny fraction of the player base...

I also had a good finecast experience, oddly enough with my Mounted Vampire, which was absoloutly flawless.

I once got a nice Succubus. Only defect was a minor clear spot in the loincloth which disappeared with primer.

But the Archon... God, he probably had Fanta mixed with the resin to make all those bubbles and destroy all that detail...

My experience has been that any new models that come out after finecast have generally been pretty solid, its the older models being re-released in finecast that seem to have issues. I recently picked up the new empire witch hunter and the model was flawless

I've been as happy with my realatively few Finecast purchases as with my previous metal ones. To date they are:

Finecast techmarine and servitors box: not too much flash though probably more than would have been on metal models - on the plus side, finecast, flash is faster to remove I find, on the minus side finecast being frailer, removing flash is a little more angst-ridden.

2 Haemonculi - not too much flash. One model has its head slightly misaligned along the mould line but minor filing left a nice sort of 'scar'. It would have been more of an issue on a non-haemonculus model though.

2 Librarians. Not much flash and easily cleaned. One had a lump of resin attached that required careful paring away. detail on these is much crisper than on my metal Librarian (who I like very much too).

Draigo - again only minor cleaning required bar a very small hole on the underside of the model, easily filled and to be honest wouldn't have been noticeable with the base attached without the aid of a mirror.

NB: I have seen a fairly small percentage of blisters with imperfections (mostly minor but sometimes quite horrific) evident in my local GW but the box of techmarine and servitors was bought without inspection and all the other models bar one Librarian were mail order.

British customers seem to have far less Finecast problems than those abroad, IMHO.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:British customers seem to have far less Finecast problems than those abroad, IMHO.

I've thought this too. certainly some UK posters seem to have had significant problems but on the whole it seems that most happy (posting) customers are UK-based too.

CT GAMER wrote:

carlos13th wrote:I think we should make a dakka thread where everyone who buys finecast tries to post there experiences good or bad. That way we could get a decent sample size to see how common problems really are.

Dakka represents but a tiny fraction of the player base...

Of course but it would at least give us a small cross section to get data from.

ironicsilence wrote:My experience has been that any new models that come out after finecast have generally been pretty solid, its the older models being re-released in finecast that seem to have issues. I recently picked up the new empire witch hunter and the model was flawless

This seems to be a common fallacy. The issues posted in the 70+ page Finecast thread all stemmed from shenanigans with a Necron Cryptek model, I believe. In that same thread someone posted an incredibly mangled Goblin model from the Mangler Squig set. Likewise, there have been many problems reported with the 25th Anniversary model. I also saw a thread detailing issues with an Ogre Firebelly. All of which are new models. I have said it before but it bears repeating; all evidence thus far seems to point to either a) a flaw in the Finecast process itself, b) GW trying to apply the Finecast production method on a scale that it cannot cope with or c) a combination of the two. Either way, I would suggest that it certainly is not a case of only old models converted to Finecast that have flaws (although some of them clearly do!).

I've only had good finecast models. Think i'm on my 4th one now, all 4 fine.
Obviously there have been a lot of poor quality finecast models, suppose its just luck. Maybe they rushed some models more than others? Based on the metal miniature sales, the most popular ones, probably had more made quicker, weren't as throughly checked and ended up being poor quality.

I once bought a hamburger that was cooked perfectly.

Anyone want to start a thread so we can get some data on this?

filbert wrote:

ironicsilence wrote:My experience has been that any new models that come out after finecast have generally been pretty solid, its the older models being re-released in finecast that seem to have issues. I recently picked up the new empire witch hunter and the model was flawless

This seems to be a common fallacy. The issues posted in the 70+ page Finecast thread all stemmed from shenanigans with a Necron Cryptek model, I believe. In that same thread someone posted an incredibly mangled Goblin model from the Mangler Squig set. Likewise, there have been many problems reported with the 25th Anniversary model. I also saw a thread detailing issues with an Ogre Firebelly. All of which are new models. I have said it before but it bears repeating; all evidence thus far seems to point to either a) a flaw in the Finecast process itself, b) GW trying to apply the Finecast production method on a scale that it cannot cope with or c) a combination of the two. Either way, I would suggest that it certainly is not a case of only old models converted to Finecast that have flaws (although some of them clearly do!).

As an elaboration:
The old models having problems in Finecast are ones which reportedly had problems in metal as well(notably in my own experience: Vlad von Carstein).
My own, personal theory, is that we're only seeing the issues because the beancounters underestimated exactly how large the distribution would have needed to be replacing metal models with resin. Thus, QC standards get moved from 'models must be THIS high to pass QC inspection' to 'models must be THIS high to pass QC inspection.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:British customers seem to have far less Finecast problems than those abroad, IMHO.

Maybe transit times mean that the models abroad are older?

CT GAMER wrote:I once bought a hamburger that was cooked perfectly.

Anyone want to start a thread so we can get some data on this?

I don't think anyone is denying that there's clearly a problem if we're having to make a thread to say things are going swimmingly; Finecast was a flawed product. If you'll look at the title, you'll see that I am asking if things are improving... which to be honest, if they are, is surely a boon to the community? I don't understand why lovers of the 'failcast' phenomenon want it to be a sustained experience rather than a temporary fiasco.

Creed and a KFF BM. Both perfect out of the blister and I grabbed the ones in front without looking. Guess I'm one of the "lucky" ones.

I bought Draigo, a Cryptek, the 25th anniversary marine, a Librarian, and a Mek. None had any flaws that destroyed any details.

It doesn't surprise me that the quality would improve. As a rule of thumb, new production processes improve by 20% efficiency in the first three months after launch. This is because the workers learn the techniques thoroughly and iron out bugs.

Obviously that sort of improvement can't go on indefinitely, because there aren't endless bugs to iron out.

We are now well over three months away from the start of Finecast. If people are still seeing a significant number of defects in the models, it's because of inherent flaws in the production process, which won't go away.

It's everyone's individual choice about whether to accept a model depending on what they see as defects versus the advantage of light weight and so on.

Kanluwen wrote:The old models having problems in Finecast are ones which reportedly had problems in metal as well(notably in my own experience: Vlad von Carstein).
My own, personal theory, is that we're only seeing the issues because the beancounters underestimated exactly how large the distribution would have needed to be replacing metal models with resin. Thus, QC standards get moved from 'models must be THIS high to pass QC inspection' to 'models must be THIS high to pass QC inspection.

I never realized the 25th anniversary model was made in metal ( maybe it was from another universe )


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Henners91 wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:I once bought a hamburger that was cooked perfectly.

Anyone want to start a thread so we can get some data on this?

I don't think anyone is denying that there's clearly a problem if we're having to make a thread to say things are going swimmingly; Finecast was a flawed product. If you'll look at the title, you'll see that I am asking if things are improving... which to be honest, if they are, is surely a boon to the community? I don't understand why lovers of the 'failcast' phenomenon want it to be a sustained experience rather than a temporary fiasco.

I see you leaving out the " that had no defects! " part out.

As in, this title and thread is filtering out the defective ones to be posted, or else it would be considered Off Topic would it not?

Here watch this, Obama should make a poll " Is US economy improving? Only vote if you are currently employed!"

Henners91 wrote: I don't understand why lovers of the 'failcast' phenomenon want it to be a sustained experience rather than a temporary fiasco.

Because... " Calling as it is "

What is interesting to note in this thread and the 'Not a Hate Thread', is how many people have posted that "I bought such and such a model today and it was perfect apart from a few tiny little bubbles/mould slip/bent resin (delete as appropriate)" which also shows that Finecast isn't necessarily 'better' but consumer tolerance is a bit more malleable. Personally, I wouldn't accept Finecast unless it was near enough perfect but then again, I feel that is appropriate given that high prices being charged for it. If someone wants to pay that same price and is willing to accept a sub-standard product, then more power to them. Unfortunately, the only way that GW will change their attitude is through refunds - not returns, since they probably factor in a certain amount of replacement models per x amount of sales. Only returning the model and demanding your money back will make a difference, since that is one metric they will definitely track.

filbert wrote:What is interesting to note in this thread and the 'Not a Hate Thread', is how many people have posted that "I bought such and such a model today and it was perfect apart from a few tiny little bubbles/mould slip/bent resin (delete as appropriate)" which also shows that Finecast isn't necessarily 'better' but consumer tolerance is a bit more malleable. Personally, I wouldn't accept Finecast unless it was near enough perfect but then again, I feel that is appropriate given that high prices being charged for it. If someone wants to pay that same price and is willing to accept a sub-standard product, then more power to them. Unfortunately, the only way that GW will change their attitude is through refunds - not returns, since they probably factor in a certain amount of replacement models per x amount of sales. Only returning the model and demanding your money back will make a difference, since that is one metric they will definitely track.

If people are getting Finecast models with only the odd tiny airbubble and something warped (ie bent), then you're getting a pretty normal quality resin model. The problem isn't with finecast, it's with resin. Air bubbles are extremely common with resin as are warped parts (particularly thin parts like swords), and are just some of those things people who work with a lot of resin just accept. Air bubbles and warping are pretty par for the course with resin. I'm not saying every resin model is going to have air bubbles, but one or two on flat surfaces on a resin model are very common. If you won't accept a couple of air bubbles as it means the model isn't perfect, you won't be accepting many resin models from anyone.

The actual miscasts, things like whole hands or faces not filling in the mold and mold slips are actual problems, and were quite severe at launch. Those problems - the real problems - are improving. They're happening because GW don't know how to cast resin, and didn't learn it from Forgeworld like they should have, but again, it's getting better.

Not true, at all. I understand that on GW related forums we should give GW some slack.
But to claim finecast issues are due to the material resin itself is simply false.

I have seen many perfect chinese resin casts that have zero air bubbles or mold slips.

-Loki- wrote:
If people are getting Finecast models with only the odd tiny airbubble and something warped (ie bent), then you're getting a pretty normal quality resin model. The problem isn't with finecast, it's with resin. Air bubbles are extremely common with resin as are warped parts (particularly thin parts like swords), and are just some of those things people who work with a lot of resin just accept. Air bubbles and warping are pretty par for the course with resin. I'm not saying every resin model is going to have air bubbles, but one or two on flat surfaces on a resin model are very common. If you won't accept a couple of air bubbles as it means the model isn't perfect, you won't be accepting many resin models from anyone.

The actual miscasts, things like whole hands or faces not filling in the mold and mold slips are actual problems, and were quite severe at launch. Those problems - the real problems - are improving. They're happening because GW don't know how to cast resin, and didn't learn it from Forgeworld like they should have, but again, it's getting better.

I can't comment about whether resin itself is actually flawed because all the resin minis I have bought from other manufacturers have been perfect (Admittedly, I haven't bought that many resin minis so my sample rate is quite low). However, I would suggest that the evidence that the actual miscast are getting better simply isn't there yet. Again, I refer to the 25th Anniversary mini which countless people demonstrated flaws in and saw the same flaws time and time again on replacements they were sent. Everything I have hitherto seen suggest to me that GW are unable to produce the volume of minis needed using the Finecast techniques whilst still being able to afford an acceptable level of QC. I don't think this is going to change any time soon until such time as GW admit (even internally) that the whole exercise has been a bit of a disaster, at least in the way it has been executed.

Yeah, what am I talking about Luna. I should know better. I'm the white knight who only buys GW products. I'd have no idea if other companies ship always 100% perfect resin models.

Note - I brought this back to the store, had an eyes on with their replacements, all of which were worse. The manager told me he's had similar problems with Raging Heroes resins. One customer got sent two replacements through the store, each was progressively worse than the original he bought.

The below is worse than the worst Finecast I've bought.

Most resin model makers use vacuum to get the air bubbles out. The resin is poured into the mould and vacuum is applied

GW are apparently using a spin technique to put the Finecast resin into the moulds.

If true, that could be the source of the problems, and it won't go away until they change the method.