Gun Emplacements

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**Thunderfrog**

BRB P.105

One model in base contact with the gun emplacement can
fire it instead of his own weapon, following the normal rules
for shooting. The type of weapon on the gun emplacement
depends on the model that you're using to represent it - some
shooting weapon profiles can be found starting on page 55. If a
model is in cover behind a gun emplacernent, it has a4+ cover
save. The gun emplacement can be shot at and attacked in close
combat. It is hit automaticallv in close combat and has the
following profile:

Enemy buys Aegis Defense Lines, Fortress of Redemption etc..

If I get to the guns, can I use them?

**DeathReaper**

No, as it is an enemy model, and you can not come within 1 inch of an enemy model.

**Lord Harrab**

on that subject does vindicare assassin (BS 8) + Friendly Quad Gun = flyer murder?

**katfude**

So I can't enter an empty bastion that the enemy deployed? I have to assault it only?

I'm going to need to crack the book open on this one (too bad my brother has it)

What about Aegis Defence Lines? I can't come within an inch of it unless I assault it? It doesn't have an AV, so I can't. Magical DMZ line? Awesome, auto-include in any army.

**Lord Harrab**

katfude wrote:So I can't enter an empty bastion that the enemy deployed? I have to assault it only?

I'm going to need to crack the book open on this one (too bad my brother has it)

What about Aegis Defence Lines? I can't come within an inch of it unless I assault it? It doesn't have an AV, so I can't. Magical DMZ line? Awesome, auto-include in any army.

The Gun is an enemy model, the defensive line is nutural terrain.

**DeathReaper**

The ADL is battlefield Debris, and not an enemy model.

Likewise a building is terrain and not an enemy model.

**Lobokai**

DeathReaper wrote:The ADL is battlefield Debris, and not an enemy model.

Likewise a building is terrain and not an enemy model.

But the gun is?

**Thunderfrog**

Lord Harrab wrote:on that subject does vindicare assassin (BS 8) + Friendly Quad Gun = flyer murder?

Lol, yea. Just sucks you can't shoot his guns as well.

**katfude**

DeathReaper wrote:The ADL is battlefield Debris, and not an enemy model.

Likewise a building is terrain and not an enemy model.

I gotcha now. My argument to that would be that the gun is an upgrade TO the building/debris and is therefore NOT an enemy model per your description.

**DeathReaper**

Except you can shoot and assault the guns. that makes them enemy models.

**katfude**

Does that necessarily make them enemies? Where in the book does it say that:

A: I CAN in fact, shoot at the gun if it is not manned by an enemy model

and

B: That in every single circumstance, if I can shoot or assault it, it is absolutely an enemy model, period.

I'm not trying to be a ####, just want clarity on all these fortification issues.

**Thunderfrog**

DeathReaper wrote:The ADL is battlefield Debris, and not an enemy model.

Likewise a building is terrain and not an enemy model.

Looking over the rule again, and seeing the similarities between Weapons in Buildings and Emplaced Weapons...

If the opponent owns a weapon emplacement NOT attached to a building, you can either kill it or move within b2b and use it as your own. There is nothing in the rule preventing you from doing this, and specific wordage that says you can. Warhammer is a permissive rule set.

If the opponent owns a weapon emplacement attached to a building, the occupier of the building can very explicitly choose to fire the weapons attached.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Many buildings have built-in weapons. Such emplaced weapons
can each be fired as follows:

Manual Fire

If a building is occupied, a model within can choose to fi.re one of
the emplaced weapons instead of his own. Use the firing model's
Ballistic Skill and the line of sight of the weapon. All relevant
special rules frorn the firing model and the weapon are used.

Automated Fire

If a building is occupied, each emplaced weapon that is not
being fired manually automatically fires at the nearest
enemy unit within range and line of sight. Shots from
automated fire are resolved at the end of the Shooting phase, just
before any Morale checks are taken. Automated fire always
has a Ballistic Skill of 2. Automated fire does not prevent an
occupying unit from firing its own weapons

**katfude**

Same conclusion I have come to. Where does that put the Aegis Line gun at, though?

**Thunderfrog**

katfude wrote:Same conclusion I have come to. Where does that put the Aegis Line gun at, though?

I don't understand? You can place the gun anywhere in base with one of the sections of the wall I think. So if you can get within b2b you can fire away.

**katfude**

Just wanted to make sure you came to the same conclusion that the gun on a defence line is not an enemy model as it is not in a building but IS bought as part of placeable battlefield debris.

**DeathReaper**

I came to the conclusion that if I purchase an Aegis defense line, with a gun, the Gun is not a friendly model to you as you can shoot or assault it.

**katfude**

I wish I had my rulebook right now.

**Thunderfrog**

DeathReaper wrote:I came to the conclusion that if I purchase an Aegis defense line, with a gun, the Gun is not a friendly model to you as you can shoot or assault it.

I'm afraid I disagree.

You can purchase a building and you can purchase guns to go with it. If I can occupy and fire the guns from a building I should be able to commandeer and fire a emplaced gun on a line, especially because the wording in the rule is simple ..

"Any model in base to base.."

as opposed to..

"Any friendly model (or ) a model belonging to the owner of this weapon can..."

**DeathReaper**

Except the Aegis defense line is not a building, and the Gun model that goes with it belongs to the purchasing players army list so it is an enemy model, one that would not have been there had your opponent not purchased it.

Buildings have a specific exception that anyone can enter and fire the weapon.

The ADL has no such allowance since you need to be in Base Contact, and enemy models can not get into base contact.

Edit: Gun emplacements are listed in the Battlefield debris section, so maybe they are not enemy models, and they are considered Terrain that can be shot at. (This new rule book is huge).

I do not think it will come up all that often, as armies that buy the Aegis defense lines will rarely abandon them.

**Thunderfrog**

But just today when we played I used some Dire Avengers to blast away some scout snipers on one. =/

I agree with your second edit, which mentions they are purchasable debree which can be shot at. And again, if you look at the first rule I wrote out, that's rules for freestanding emplacements, not for building emplacements.

That post came after.

**Shandara**

Thunderfrog wrote:
Manual Fire
If a building is occupied, a model within can choose to fi.re one of
the emplaced weapons instead of his own. Use the firing model's
Ballistic Skill and the line of sight of the weapon. All relevant
special rules frorn the firing model and the weapon are used.

Does this mean that a Dark Reaper Exarch firing the emplaced weapon will gain an extra shot if he has the Fast Shot power?

**CrashCanuck**

If you read the entry for the Aegis Defense Line it says it has a Gun Emplacement with x weapon, which means you follow the rules for those Emplacements as if it were part of a building.

**Thunderfrog**

Shandara wrote:
Thunderfrog wrote:
Manual Fire
If a building is occupied, a model within can choose to fi.re one of
the emplaced weapons instead of his own. Use the firing model's
Ballistic Skill and the line of sight of the weapon. All relevant
special rules frorn the firing model and the weapon are used.

Does this mean that a Dark Reaper Exarch firing the emplaced weapon will gain an extra shot if he has the Fast Shot power?

Wow. Or adding an exarch with Tank Hunters for that matter. It says all special rules apply.

**DeathReaper**

Thunderfrog wrote:But just today when we played I used some Dire Avengers to blast away some scout snipers on one. =/

They must not have one to ground for their 2+ cover save.

**GoDz BuZzSaW**

DeathReaper wrote:
Thunderfrog wrote:But just today when we played I used some Dire Avengers to blast away some scout snipers on one. =/

They must not have one to ground for their 2+ cover save.

Even if they do, they still die

**Thunderfrog**

DeathReaper wrote:
Thunderfrog wrote:But just today when we played I used some Dire Avengers to blast away some scout snipers on one. =/

They must not have one to ground for their 2+ cover save.

I deployed heavy on the right flank. He did the same except for one unit of scout snipers. I used Eldrad Divination to move a WS over to the right side.

On turn 2 or 3 I went flat out with the waveserpent and got behind the snipers and the ADL, so he didn't have the cover when I got out and buried him next turn. I lost a WS, but he lost the snipers and an objective.

**DeathReaper**

That will teach him, Always put your ADL so it covers the front and the back of your models.

Also never leave snipers solo on an objective. Always have some support nearby.

**Exergy**

Lord Harrab wrote:on that subject does vindicare assassin (BS 8) + Friendly Quad Gun = flyer murder?

quad guns are twin linked so they already get the reroll. Thus BS5 is as good as you can get.

You cannot reroll a reroll

**Thunderfrog**

DeathReaper wrote:That will teach him, Always put your ADL so it covers the front and the back of your models.

Also never leave snipers solo on an objective. Always have some support nearby.

Yea, it really is a mixed bag.

Deploy them all lengthwise and you can put quite a few units in cover with an exposed backside. Alternatively, close the gap! Get cover from all angles!

This is way off topic, but I cannot wait to field ..

4 Farseers...

2 with small jetcouncils and 2 with DE reaver squads. Yay for melta/lance-bikes!

**jesse**

In the example of the scouts manning the quad gun, does the gun receive a +1 save because of stealth? Basically does the gun "join" the squad?