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Hey mates, I am currently in the process of gathering all of the Chimeras I have for my Mechanized Steel Legion list (7x total), and already have gathered all of the Sentinels I need to run the two squardrons of outflanking Lascannon Scout Sentinels, however I am still in a debate of what kind of tanks to run for my heavy support. At the moment, I am considering of running either 2x Demolishers or 2x L.R.B.T.'s to go along with my Leman Russ Exterminator w/Pask and hvy. bolters, as not only is it a good tank but with Pask it gives me the chance to glance a LR to death thanks to his Crack Shot rule, as well as being able to destroy transports on a whim . Comparing both of them, while the Leman Russ has the advantage in Range and cheaper in points, the Demolisher Cannon seems too good to pass with its S10, AP2 gun, however the only problem I see with it is the lack of range, which can lead to some problems depending on the opponent. Anyways, I am just asking my fellow Guard players for advice on which tanks would benefit a Mechanized Chimera list a lot more and which tank will be more worth the points in 6th edition.

Both tanks serve different battlefield roles really. The vanilla Russ is more long range support and will stay towards the back. The Demolisher is more for being at the front lines blasting through heavy tanks and Terminators.

if everyone screaming the sky is calling about terminators being fielded more are right. Take the demolisher. The regular russ is very good though. Why dont you take one of each instead of 2 of one?

I like to roll with 2 lrbt, hull lascannon and sponson heavy flamers. Even at small points I like to squeeze two in. They are good for killin mech and hordes and are reasonable cheap at 185 each :-)

They both got better. The demolisher also got so much better to the point where it actually competes with LRBTs again for HS slots.

It's really tough to say, as the bolter boat LRBT, the HLC+SHB exterminator, and the HLC demolisher are all pretty darn good right now. It almost seems a matter of nothing more than personal taste.

I think it's a personal taste as well, both are very good tanks.

But there are a few particularities to consider :
* You have a mobile force, so accompanying a short ranged tank should not be a problem. The limited range will still be a drawback though, in a world full of super-fast vehicles and fliers.
* A lot of SM players start to freak out about their terminators (and GK powerhouse is not gone), so bringing some AP:2 terror would be a good idea to show them who's the boss on the battlefield.
* Some armies have access to nasty combos based on bikers, relying on their new shining T5 value, with FNP and allocation shenanigans etc... Bringing STR 10 gives you a massive hammer to smash all these threats.


Personally, I would not take one of each. It's good to have some redundancy, so just make a choice, and try to work this out tactically.

Based on what you've said about your list, I'd say Demolishers.
They have the needed AP2. Plus they can hurt vehicles more.

Fair points mate, its been something bugging me as I like both tanks a lot, however its apparent that I will be choesing between range or a better S and AP. As Alarmingrick mentioned, it depends on my list, so here is a quick rundown of what I was considering running at one point: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/461572.page#4514905

Demolisher, better for a mobile list like that.

If the short Demolisher range is bothering you, just take longer ranged sponsons like lascannons or heavy blotters.

What about the defensive turret weapon? (storm bolter/stubber)

Decio wrote:If the short Demolisher range is bothering you, just take longer ranged sponsons like lascannons or heavy blotters.

What about the defensive turret weapon? (storm bolter/stubber)

Havent really thought about that to be honest, however from looking at my list, I would most likely add Heavy Stubbers to my Heavy tanks, as I prefer the extra shot over the Higher AP.

Plasma is a good choice for sponsons, especially vs MEQ, TEQ and MCs for either tank. I've never regretted taking them, they always make thier points back. Demolisher all the way though. However the LRBT is good too, but as others have said they serve very different roles. On the point of additional weapons, I've never bothered, but would also take the stubber over the stormbolter. Longer range and additional shot over AP5 for me. Another matter of preferance really.

liquidjoshi wrote:Plasma is a good choice for sponsons, especially vs MEQ, TEQ and MCs for either tank. I've never regretted taking them, they always make thier points back. Demolisher all the way though. However the LRBT is good too, but as others have said they serve very different roles. On the point of additional weapons, I've never bothered, but would also take the stubber over the stormbolter. Longer range and additional shot over AP5 for me. Another matter of preferance really.

Going to have to disagree with this only because of the new editions rules in regards to "gets hot" with plasma weapons. I have watched a total of 3 other Imperial Guard players (not me since I run airborne/aircav Guard) glance their vehicles to death due to that. One was pretty bad as it happened two turns in a row and ended up killing his executioner. And the fact that Leman Russ' only have 3 hull points really turns me off to ever taking plasma side sponsers.

However I do agree with the above statement that Demolishers are better with this list because of the mobility of it. Demolishers moving forward with Chimeras providing a target/fire support for your infantry. Granter I can understand the need for some long range firepower so I would consider sentinels or even better, Vendetta Gunships as with the new flyer rules they could keep up with your army, be hard to kill and pack a anti vehicle punch.

gmaleron wrote:

liquidjoshi wrote:Plasma is a good choice for sponsons, especially vs MEQ, TEQ and MCs for either tank. I've never regretted taking them, they always make thier points back. Demolisher all the way though. However the LRBT is good too, but as others have said they serve very different roles. On the point of additional weapons, I've never bothered, but would also take the stubber over the stormbolter. Longer range and additional shot over AP5 for me. Another matter of preferance really.

Going to have to disagree with this only because of the new editions rules in regards to "gets hot" with plasma weapons. I have watched a total of 3 other Imperial Guard players (not me since I run airborne/aircav Guard) glance their vehicles to death due to that. One was pretty bad as it happened two turns in a row and ended up killing his executioner. And the fact that Leman Russ' only have 3 hull points really turns me off to ever taking plasma side sponsers.

Oh snap, vehicles can Get Hot now? Damn...

Plasma cannons are still pretty good, though, despite gets hot. Your source of armor-ignoring weapons just went down with the loss of power weapons, and Ap actually matters more in a world of worse cover. Plasma cannons can also reliably glance vehicles to death now. Seems a decent trade for gets hot.

The only problem is that they're still so ridiculously expensive...

Ailaros wrote:Plasma cannons are still pretty good, though, despite gets hot. Your source of armor-ignoring weapons just went down with the loss of power weapons, and Ap actually matters more in a world of worse cover. Plasma cannons can also reliably glance vehicles to death now. Seems a decent trade for gets hot.

The only problem is that they're still so ridiculously expensive...

I tend to find they make it back though. I mainly fight MEQ though, so YMMV.

Ailaros wrote:Plasma cannons are still pretty good, though, despite gets hot. Your source of armor-ignoring weapons just went down with the loss of power weapons, and Ap actually matters more in a world of worse cover. Plasma cannons can also reliably glance vehicles to death now. Seems a decent trade for gets hot.

The only problem is that they're still so ridiculously expensive...

Which is why I wont be running plasma side-sponsors in this edition. Granted they are good, but they are not worth 40 points, which is why I will be giving all of my tanks Hvy. Bolter side-sponsors, however would hull mounted hvy. flamers be more worth it then a hull-mounted hvy. bolter or Lascannon, baring the Exterminator of course, which will be running pure dakka-dakka.

On a side note, the only plasma cannon worth taking in the IG army now is the Executioner, as it gets 3x Plasma Cannon shots that dont get hot, making it a good hvy. infantry/Light Transport killer. Like this tank, however the Exterminator with Pask seems like a better investment as I am getting 4x S8 twin-linked shots with his Crack Shot rule, which is awesome, but some people say Pask in a Punisher is a better investment. I dont deny that it is a very good infantry killer, but I believe AP is a lot more important in this edition to be honest, plus I havent seen too many people run the Exterminator at all in this edition so I'm willing to give a shot .

I think the lack of gets hot on the exterminator plasma cannon is a typo, its profile lists it as "Heavy 3, Blast," note the comma, it is the only entry in the entire reference that is finished with a comma. I read that to mean that the gets hot was simply forgotten. Expect it to be FAQ`ed.

EagleArk wrote:I think the lack of gets hot on the exterminator plasma cannon is a typo, its profile lists it as "Heavy 3, Blast," note the comma, it is the only entry in the entire reference that is finished with a comma. I read that to mean that the gets hot was simply forgotten. Expect it to be FAQ`ed.

Already checked and its not mate . However I doubt that they will nerf it so it will Get Hot, as that would make the Executioner (not the Exterminator, thats the Autocannon one) pretty much useless and not worth the points.

Exterminator, executioner, all the same. And anyway i was just saying atm it doesn't have gets hot but because of a grammar failure it is implied, also of note, according to the flying monstrous creature entry, they have the relentless smash special rule. (also because of punctuation)

EagleArk wrote: it doesn't have gets hot but because of a grammar failure it is implied

I don't see how quid pros quo here.

Is every typo that GW makes secretly significant, or just this one?

For the poll:
It is situational. IMO the Demolisher for smaller point battles because you are playing (should be) on smaller board. Plus the strength 10 AP2 blast will wreck about anything it hits. The Battle tank is great for that long range support. Nothing says Imperial Guard like lobbing shells across the board. Me, I would take at least one of each, but I am a tread head, lol.

As for the Executioner, I think it was just a typo. I always believed that Leman Russ tanks had the proper cooling setups for the plasma canon

EagleArk wrote:Exterminator, executioner, all the same. And anyway i was just saying atm it doesn't have gets hot but because of a grammar failure it is implied, also of note, according to the flying monstrous creature entry, they have the relentless smash special rule. (also because of punctuation)

Hmmm The Executioner having 3x S7 Plasma Cannon blast template shots and 11 Rear Armor compared to a 4x shot, Twin Linked Autocannon with 10 Rear Armor............ oh yeah, they are really the same mate . I dont think it was a typo on GW's part, as like I said earlier, you give the Executioner Main Turrent weapon the Get Hot rule, it becomes worthless, enough said. And by relentless do you mean the Lumbering Behemoth rule? I thought that rule just meant that if I move more then 6 that I can fire my turrent weapon and my hull-mounted weapon at normal BS or did I misread that? Just want to make sure about that.

Go with the demolisher. I too am not a fan of plasma sponsons because of the cost. As your army grows in tanks ( I must assume anyone with Rommel in their name will be adding more tanks) you can always add some vanilla LRBT.

Demolishers with basic Sponson Heavy Bolters/Multi Meltas and a Laz Cannon in the front for the ranged taps that just happen .

BloodAngels Brother wrote:Demolishers with basic Sponson Heavy Bolters/Multi Meltas and a Laz Cannon in the front for the ranged taps that just happen .

Was planning on the Heavy Bolter side sponsors mate, but not to sure about the Lascannon to be honest. Was thinking of adding a heavy flamer as the hull mounted weapon as I tend to come across a lot of horde armies, and since I will most likely have to move closer to the opponent in order to get in range, it can help out a lot. However, does that mean that the Lumbering Behemoth rule allows me to move more then 6 inches and then I can fire my turrent weapon and my hull-mounted weapon at normal BS or did I misread that? Just want to make sure about that.

Go for demolishers. Nob bikers will be huge in 6th.

Rommel44 wrote:

EagleArk wrote:Exterminator, executioner, all the same. And anyway i was just saying atm it doesn't have gets hot but because of a grammar failure it is implied, also of note, according to the flying monstrous creature entry, they have the relentless smash special rule. (also because of punctuation)

Hmmm The Executioner having 3x S7 Plasma Cannon blast template shots and 11 Rear Armor compared to a 4x shot, Twin Linked Autocannon with 10 Rear Armor............ oh yeah, they are really the same mate . I dont think it was a typo on GW's part, as like I said earlier, you give the Executioner Main Turrent weapon the Get Hot rule, it becomes worthless, enough said. And by relentless do you mean the Lumbering Behemoth rule? I thought that rule just meant that if I move more then 6 that I can fire my turrent weapon and my hull-mounted weapon at normal BS or did I misread that? Just want to make sure about that.

Go to page 49 of the rulebook, thanks to a lack of comma flying monstrous creatures have neither the relentless or the smash special rule, rather RAW they have a rule that doesn't exist. Oh and perhaps the executioner plasma cannon is a typo, but remember in the old edition it said vehicles all had the necessarily cooling to avoid gets hot, why has only the executioner retained that?

But you've got to base your rules on what is written, not any particular opinion with regards to what hasn't been written.

Well one thing that definitely will make a difference is, what are you planning on fighting? If you're just going up against a bunch of Eldar there's little reason to take a Demolisher since most everything will be blown to bits by your 9-3 LRBT pie plate. Marines will fall just as easily if you're not facing Terminators and Land Raiders up the wazoo. The Green Tide can be turned by a few normal Russes as well. So unless you think you're really going to NEED that extra AP and strength, there's little reason to buy a Demolisher. In fact, range on the LRBT can almost outweigh that in my experience.