Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I have been playing Tau exclusively since about a month after they were first released in 3rd edition.
I continued to play them in tournaments through 4th, 5th, and 6th editions, and even won quite a few times with them.

The new codex though is not exciting for me to play at all at the moment. It is cool that we got some new toys to tinker with, but I feel that Tau overall got more expensive (especially with crisis suits) point wise as a whole and that quite a few really nice combinations that we had availability to just got taken apart (things like the Stealth Cloud).

I am just wondering if anyone else is experiencing the same thoughts/feelings about the new codex. I know a lot of people had a tau force, but I also know a lot of people did nothing with Tau since 4th and early 5th edition.

Can't comment on Tau because I don't play them but I felt the same way when the new Chaos Space Marine codex was released. My whole [fully painted] list was ruined, ad the playstyle was changed. However I realised I would just have to get over it and play them in a completely new way. I think we can be very resistant to change because we have invested so much in our armies, but at the end of the day we have to be flexible [bye bye daemon princes and rhinos and hello unpainted new units].

It shouldn't be a surprise that new codexes from GW will always promote the new kits or kits that weren't selling very well because it forces existing players to buy new stuff or gets rid of unwanted stock.

Having said that I don't play my Chaos Marines anymore because I don't really like the way the codex has gone and how the army plays now, so if that's how you feel after giving the new dex a thorough going over I suppose you'll have to change army like I did.

Not In the slightest. The majority of things have stayed the same or gotten cheaper points wise and actually gotten better. The new book is probably one of the best designed 6th edition books, besides the flyers . Characters cheap as chips and good as gold, troops good and cheap. You can see the pattern here. Sure builds may not be the same but that doesn't make the book bad. Just different. And not to be rude, but you are probably the only person I've found saying a single negative thing about this new book.

blood lance wrote:
And not to be rude, but you are probably the only person I've found saying a single negative thing about this new book.

You must not be looking very hard. The OP is far from the only person who is disappointed with Codex:Magic Laser Pointers.

There are plenty of people on line that have expressed dislike for the new Tau codex, and plenty that like it..seems like a standard GW offering

Myself I like it, I hoped for a bit more content, and some of the changes were not 100% to my liking, but meh, I will adapt. Plus there are some cool new possibilities in it..

I like the tau codex rules the fluff was a bit dull and would have loved to have seen more new units but I think it made tau a better playing army

as for points cost I think things are cheaper and better balanced and in most cases better you have the best 9pts troop I have seen a 4+ armour save a 30" gun and str5 to boot and the new help other squads over watch think tau are probably the best balance of the new codex's

I honestly can't see how, if you ran the exact same army using both books, the army from the new book would be -more- expencive. The vast majority of thing's dropped in points price, or increased in effectiveness, I can't think of many, if any, thing's that actually got more expensive.

So, just play in exactly the same manner as your old army, with the same models, just with some shiny new rules, and a new way of looking at markerlights.

Imagine how I felt. Chaos daemons went from an elite army to a horde army. Imagine if tau turned into a horde army, or a super elite army like grey knights, -that's- the kind of thing that will throw you off. xD

I liked how whoever did the white dwarf must not have even looked at the book. 4 man crisis teams, making up stuff for farsight...so dumb.

Saw a few games with the new codex yesterday (fought it once myself) and it didn't really strike me as anything extra compared to the old one, but then the player didn't have anything new except the bomber. Everything worked just as well or better than his old codex - suits were still irritating, markerlights made sense now and firewarriors are still nasty if you can't see a way to get at them. With a bit more practice and better luck he should have turned one loss into a draw and a draw into a win.

I think they are significantly better:

Basic army has a couple nice rules (supporting fire is amazing), he warlord trait table seems to really benefit the style of the army AND it is the first one that allows you to reroll unusable ones

Crisis suits got cheaper overall in the weapons area and added some nice new abilities.

Ethereals are actually better (The elemental effects are very useful - and so what if they give a VP - just try to keep them out of the way and you don't have to worry)

The Fireblade is a GREAT addition that once people realize what good he is, will see a lot of table time

Troops are better - less points = more troops, plus EMPs are worth the 2 points (Oh, going to run your LR up to my FWs, ine I charge with my 6 man emp-warriors....no more tank for you)

The new units are not bad. I don't see them as anything that is just amazing, but if done right, they can be very good...but that is how all the new dexs are....

Weapons options have gotten no worse...

Overall - I say they have become MUCH more competitive and allow for more than the standard tau tactics

The new codex though is not exciting for me to play at all at the moment. It is cool that we got some new toys to tinker with, but I feel that Tau overall got more expensive (especially with crisis suits) point wise as a whole and that quite a few really nice combinations that we had availability to just got taken apart (things like the Stealth Cloud).

I am just wondering if anyone else is experiencing the same thoughts/feelings about the new codex. I know a lot of people had a tau force, but I also know a lot of people did nothing with Tau since 4th and early 5th edition.

Much the reverse-- I'm loving it. It's crazy how hard it is to choose between all the options in this book. Every slot has multiple strong choices and I can't identify any "dead units" at all-- rare for a 40k book. It's hard for me to make army lists with the new Tau, but only because I want to field practically everything!

Vespids aren't dead?

 n0t_u wrote:
Vespids aren't dead?

They are "just" the worst unit in the codex. They are far from useless, but very dependent on the support of other units.

I think it is a relatively good Codex.

Some infantry boost through the overwatch rules, Firecadre, etc.. is highly welcome. Crisis suits got cheaper actually, and with built-in multi-tracker encourage combi-builds over spam.

It's also the first 6th edition Codex that breaks the sad trend of no-new-special-characters, which is definitely a thumbs-up. And unlike the lazy translations of Characters and Units into 6th seen in the Phail Kelly books, they seem to have put some serious thoughts into making the Characters fun.

That said, it has some of the typcial "Vetock-Codex" problems, mainly sloppy writing (e.g. Sun Shark Pulse Bomb) and typos (though, admittedly, it's not Space-Wolves bad).

- The flyers feel sub-par (and probably would've worked just fine as a single Codex-entry with a few more options), which is a pity, as I like the model.

- The boost to Ethereals is highly welcome, though I am not sure if it is enough.

- There's also a wasted potential IMO in leveraging the allies-rules a bit to show-off the Tau's willingness to work with others.

But they are relatively minor points (as 6th Edition goes). There're clearly no Heldrake/Mutilator/Chariot-Flamer-style brain-farts in this book, so I'd still rate it in the top 50% of 6th Edition books.

It has taken tau from average to ok. As usual a new codex sees hugely over gunned options to make them good at winning to entice people to buy the figures. Just hope they do eldar then marines then sisters codex next to pull tau back in to their rightful place.

 Peregrine wrote:

You must not be looking very hard. The OP is far from the only person who is disappointed with Codex:Magic Laser Pointers.

I'm assuming this is a commentary on the prevalence of markerlights in the codex? I think it's kind of ridiculous to say that in a negative light when it's a central mechanic the army is built around, like IG orders or Power From Pain or whatever.

i miss the rules, points, and stats being on the same page. don't know why but i hate the warhammer fantasy setting of the books now.

 shad0wen wrote:
i miss the rules, points, and stats being on the same page. don't know why but i hate the warhammer fantasy setting of the books now.

The game is becoming more and more like fantasy with every edition. Random tables, magic tables, larger armies and the layout of books.

The codex feels a bit unfinished to me, either that or the writer has a very poor memory. Some useless options as well as nonsensical ones (really, why would you ever take a burst cannon on your vehicle when the SMS does the same thing and so much more for the same price?)

Every codex leaves me wishing that GW would just fire all the staff-writers and actually hire people with higher than chimp intelligence who can remember what they wrote from one page to the next.

I too am disappointed with the new absolute reliance on markerlights. They've always been a nice mechanic that was singular to the Tau but you weren't required to take them to make a workable army. Now, since they've gotten rid of targeting arrays, you have to take a heap load of them for your shooting to be effective at all. What's worse is that the cheapest way to produce ML hits is by reducing your firing effectiveness by using pathfinders who have a choice to fire the ML or actually try and kill something. Synergy is one thing, forcing players to choose between causing damage and maybe helping out the rest of the army (since ML hits are not automatic, you're still rolling dice with a unit that has a 4+ to hit) is another. At least orders work more than half of the time.

I know why they nerfed the broadside railgun and I agree that it needed doing to actually give some variety and not make it more OP vs. fliers than it already has the potential to be; but I for the life of me don't understand why they didn't write in an option to take squads of Hammerheads. Now we can take two HHs and a squad of suicide fusion suits and hope for the best or dip into the already crowded Elite choices for the new shiny Riptide which is still only slightly more effective at anti-tank than a lascannon.

I like more access to blast weapons; something that was sorely missing before but they made all these options "gets hot".

The fliers are cute but there's no reason to take them because they don't do enough vs. anything. A S5 AP5 bomb is useless in an army where the sidearm of the lowliest soldier is S5 AP5 and I can take an entire unit of them behind an ADL for nearly the price of a fragile flier. If we need anti-air, the repurposed broadisdes do nicely for that.

Character options are great but again, half-arsed. Instead of providing us with what is given to nearly every other codex, a buy 3 for on HQ slot, we get to choose a maximum of 2. I'm mainly talking about fireblades here as the others are fine as is for various reasons (one of a kind or provide bubble effects). Also lacking are HQ options that unlock elite or fasts as troops that other armies have easily available; pathfinders as troops would bring out all sorts of interesting options and make objective missions a nightmare for opponents.

I was honestly expecting more new units ala Necrons and Dark Eldar since it's been quite a while since Tau have had any love. Keep in mind, I'm talking units here, not models. Unitwise we have pathfinders being recut with new options, new broadsides outside of the fliers and big gribbly that everyone else is getting these days...

No effective transports and the devilfish still being overcosted come to mind as disappointing. Why would I ever take a devilfish when I can buy a whole unit that lays down more fire or flood them with kroot.

Some things I like. I like the direction kroot went in; they were never really good at assault anyway but they could have left the hounds S4 at least and the kroot rifle as an extra combat weapon, those were definitely not OP. A shaper HQ (3 for one slot of course) would have been a cool option with some nice powers to buff kroot in different ways. Just some thoughts.

The overall mechanic has changed even though the fluff hasn't which is probably the biggest irk I have. Why advertise them as highly mobile and then write rules that penalize them for moving? Why remove the fire as a fast skimmer option from the vehicles? Hardly anything about this army appears to be highly mobile. A highly mobile force is one that can get into the thick of battle and back out again while performing surgical strikes, not sitting behind an ADL while watching the same tactics we had last edition (JSJ). Yes the suits move around but that's about it. If you want to fire more than one gun from your vehicle, you best park it in cover the whole game. You want your weak troops to actually bring enough weight of fire to kill something? You best not move from behind you ADL and you best hope your mandatory pathfinders hit with markerlights.

I could go on but won't bore you all. Suffice to say that the new book is a mixed bag for me of things that make sense and other things that leave me scratching my head and wondering if Vetock even speaks English as his native tongue or has reading comprehension beyond the 3rd grade. Scratch that, I could probably find some 3rd graders who could write rules tighter than he can.

 blood reaper wrote:

 shad0wen wrote:
i miss the rules, points, and stats being on the same page. don't know why but i hate the warhammer fantasy setting of the books now.

The game is becoming more and more like fantasy with every edition. Random tables, magic tables, larger armies and the layout of books.

Because these are all things that were never in older codices. It's more a return to 2nd ed than anything else, and I dig it.

I just rebuild a list i have used, never before would i have been able to fit Kroot and 6 model stealth teams in my game alongside crisis suits.
It is very very nice if you ask me.

Cheapest way to get effective markerlights is surely to pick up a drone squadron and attach it to a commander with a drone controller. Bs5 markerlights with jsj, yes please you can even double them up as ablative wounds for a suit that can shoot other things with a target lock.

In my view, though, the new codex finaly has an effective infantry gunline build. The new infantry hq choices open the door for all kinds of shenanigans that means you aren't forced to buy battlesuits.

Personally, I love the new codex. I'm really excited by the changes, both mechanically and with respect to the background.

jazzpaintball wrote:
I have been playing Tau exclusively since about a month after they were first released in 3rd edition.
I continued to play them in tournaments through 4th, 5th, and 6th editions, and even won quite a few times with them.

The new codex though is not exciting for me to play at all at the moment. It is cool that we got some new toys to tinker with, but I feel that Tau overall got more expensive (especially with crisis suits) point wise as a whole and that quite a few really nice combinations that we had availability to just got taken apart (things like the Stealth Cloud).

I am just wondering if anyone else is experiencing the same thoughts/feelings about the new codex. I know a lot of people had a tau force, but I also know a lot of people did nothing with Tau since 4th and early 5th edition.

http://www.3plusplus.net/2013/04/the-old-vs-the-new-tau/#more-4642

 blood reaper wrote:

 shad0wen wrote:
i miss the rules, points, and stats being on the same page. don't know why but i hate the warhammer fantasy setting of the books now.

The game is becoming more and more like fantasy with every edition. Random tables, magic tables, larger armies and the layout of books.

Yep I hate that. The worst part is model designs becoming fantasish like Newcrons or Helldrake.

 Peregrine wrote:

blood lance wrote:
And not to be rude, but you are probably the only person I've found saying a single negative thing about this new book.

You must not be looking very hard. The OP is far from the only person who is disappointed with Codex:Magic Laser Pointers.

Those magic Laser pointers helped a Tau player bring down three of my flyers in a 2000pt game recently...however not before my Elyisans mopped the floor with most of his army!

 agnosto wrote:
I too am disappointed with the new absolute reliance on markerlights. They've always been a nice mechanic that was singular to the Tau but you weren't required to take them to make a workable army. Now, since they've gotten rid of targeting arrays, you have to take a heap load of them for your shooting to be effective at all. What's worse is that the cheapest way to produce ML hits is by reducing your firing effectiveness by using pathfinders who have a choice to fire the ML or actually try and kill something. Synergy is one thing, forcing players to choose between causing damage and maybe helping out the rest of the army (since ML hits are not automatic, you're still rolling dice with a unit that has a 4+ to hit) is another. At least orders work more than half of the time.

All of those problems can be mitigated. For instance you can take a Commander with a target lock and a drone controller and place him with Marker Drones. That gives you BS5 markerlights that don't force the Commander to waste his fire and can move and fire with the Relentless conferred by their jet packs.

 agnosto wrote:
I know why they nerfed the broadside railgun and I agree that it needed doing to actually give some variety and not make it more OP vs. fliers than it already has the potential to be; but I for the life of me don't understand why they didn't write in an option to take squads of Hammerheads. Now we can take two HHs and a squad of suicide fusion suits and hope for the best or dip into the already crowded Elite choices for the new shiny Riptide which is still only slightly more effective at anti-tank than a lascannon.

Because Tau aren't Imperial Guard. Squadrons of tanks are a uniquely Imperial Guard thing and IMO shouldn't be in every army.

 agnosto wrote:
I like more access to blast weapons; something that was sorely missing before but they made all these options "gets hot".

Submunitions don't get hot, and the Airbursting Fragmentation Projector doesn't either.

 agnosto wrote:
The fliers are cute but there's no reason to take them because they don't do enough vs. anything. A S5 AP5 bomb is useless in an army where the sidearm of the lowliest soldier is S5 AP5 and I can take an entire unit of them behind an ADL for nearly the price of a fragile flier. If we need anti-air, the repurposed broadisdes do nicely for that.

The bomber doesn't just have its bomb, though. The Interceptor Drones provide it with the ability to engage flyers. Also, bombs can often engage targets that infantry can't. Personally, I won't be fielding a bomber, but I can definitely see armies that would benefit from it.

 agnosto wrote:
Character options are great but again, half-arsed. Instead of providing us with what is given to nearly every other codex, a buy 3 for on HQ slot, we get to choose a maximum of 2.

Again, I think you exaggerate when you say that buy 3 per HQ slot is in nearly every other codex. Things like this shouldn't be in every codex because it would homogenize the game.

 agnosto wrote:
I was honestly expecting more new units ala Necrons and Dark Eldar since it's been quite a while since Tau have had any love. Keep in mind, I'm talking units here, not models. Unitwise we have pathfinders being recut with new options, new broadsides outside of the fliers and big gribbly that everyone else is getting these days...

Tau do have fewer units than most armies, but their units are far more adaptable and diverse. Gun Drone squadrons are basically three different units in one. Crisis suits are way more than three. Command suits might be the most customizable HQs available in the game.

 agnosto wrote:
No effective transports and the devilfish still being overcosted come to mind as disappointing. Why would I ever take a devilfish when I can buy a whole unit that lays down more fire or flood them with kroot.

So that you can move up the field faster, be protected from anti-infantry shooting, and take more Smart Missile Systems (one of the best weapons in the game)? Again, I don't plan on fielding Devilfish, but to me the reasons that you would seem fairly obvious.

 agnosto wrote:
The overall mechanic has changed even though the fluff hasn't which is probably the biggest irk I have. Why advertise them as highly mobile and then write rules that penalize them for moving?

If you don't want that, don't take those units. There's no rule saying that Fireblades and Broadsides are mandatory.

 agnosto wrote:
Why remove the fire as a fast skimmer option from the vehicles?

It was boring and homogenized the game. All Xenos armies (aside from Orks) should not be fast skimmer armies.

 agnosto wrote:
Hardly anything about this army appears to be highly mobile.

Why not take Marker Drones instead of Pathfinders and use their more accurate markerlights (with a Commander) to allow your Hammerheads (or even Broadsides) to fire at high BS while moving? Alternatively, use those Pathfinders as outflanking special weapon squads instead of Markerlight support.

 agnosto wrote:
A highly mobile force is one that can get into the thick of battle and back out again while performing surgical strikes, not sitting behind an ADL while watching the same tactics we had last edition (JSJ). Yes the suits move around but that's about it. If you want to fire more than one gun from your vehicle, you best park it in cover the whole game. You want your weak troops to actually bring enough weight of fire to kill something? You best not move from behind you ADL and you best hope your mandatory pathfinders hit with markerlights.

So wait. You want a very mobile army, but you don't understand why anyone would take Devilfish?

The only arguments I have against the new Tau Codex is:

A: I would have liked Pathfinders moved to a troop choice

B: having some sort of special weapons teams that could take rail rifles and Ion rifles instead of giving them as options to pathfinders.

C: It would have been awesome if you could give the Fireblade a Rail Rifle.

Kingsley wrote:All of those problems can be mitigated. For instance you can take a Commander with a target lock and a drone controller and place him with Marker Drones. That gives you BS5 markerlights that don't force the Commander to waste his fire and can move and fire with the Relentless conferred by their jet packs.

And you've relegated your best shooter to an absolute support role while spending a great deal of points on an admittedly mobile unit that a) doesn't kill anything and b)screams "shoot me with your vindicator!" You're correct that it is an option but not an attractive one. Again, I'm left with a feeling of the codex being incomplete; you're still completely reliant on something that is not actively hurting your opponent while costing a substantial amount of points. The unit you mentioned is only going to light up one unit while your opponent has multiple others that are careening across the field to get at the gunline you've been forced to create to actually bring enough volume of fire to do any credible damage to units you've actually been able to hit with markerlights.

Kingsley wrote:Because Tau aren't Imperial Guard. Squadrons of tanks are a uniquely Imperial Guard thing and IMO shouldn't be in every army.

If you don't like that, you probably hate how every marine book has nearly the same options. Then again maybe you don't. It wouldn't have broken the game for two armies to have squadrons and would not be, as you so bombastically put it, "every" army. Alternatively, a rule adding another HS slot would have been army specific enough and allow for more high quality shooting that other armies are able to bring.

Kingsley wrote:Submunitions don't get hot, and the Airbursting Fragmentation Projector doesn't either.

Please re-read my statement, I was discussing the new options, not existing ones.

Kingsley wrote:The bomber doesn't just have its bomb, though. The Interceptor Drones provide it with the ability to engage flyers. Also, bombs can often engage targets that infantry can't. Personally, I won't be fielding a bomber, but I can definitely see armies that would benefit from it.

The drones are not fliers; once they detach, they're easy meat. Bombs are silly in my opinion because you have to line up your bombing runs which probably means you're dropping one, maybe two bombs and then you're off the table. Your opponent is not going to conveniently line up his/her forces to maximize the damage you may be able to do. I fail to see what targets a bomber may engage that infantry may not; it's a S5 AP5 large blast on a model that costs more than a fire warrior unit that could do the same damage. If you see some worth in it, we'll have to differ in our opinions.

Kingsley wrote:Again, I think you exaggerate when you say that buy 3 per HQ slot is in nearly every other codex. Things like this shouldn't be in every codex because it would homogenize the game.

Of course I exaggerated; only Imperial armies are allowed to have 3 for one HQs. Maybe Necrons do to, I'm not sure on that one. If not that then they could have made the Fireblade a unit upgrade, anything other than an HQ slot that you only get to choose two from.

Kingsley wrote:Tau do have fewer units than most armies, but their units are far more adaptable and diverse. Gun Drone squadrons are basically three different units in one. Crisis suits are way more than three. Command suits might be the most customizable HQs available in the game.

The only adaptability is in suits which you are limited in. The troop section is decidedly lacking in any diversity nor was any thought made to make them flavorful or even fun. You are now forced to play gunline which means you're immobile to benefit from special rules or you're the same old mech army which means your troops are sitting in a tank, not killing anything. The Kroot revamp was an interesting turn but you're still limited in what role they play in battle.

Kingsley wrote:So that you can move up the field faster, be protected from anti-infantry shooting, and take more Smart Missile Systems (one of the best weapons in the game)? Again, I don't plan on fielding Devilfish, but to me the reasons that you would seem fairly obvious.

I think the Necron Ghost Ark will do more damage than a devilfish; the massive amount of fire that durable transport can bring to bear is astonishing. SMS is cute but again, it's a S5 AP5 weapon in an army where the personal sidearm of the lowliest grunt is just as powerful. It's a 90 point tank with SMS that can fire 8 shots but can only shoot 4 at full BS if it moves more than 6" and 4 of those only have a range that is effective and you have to pay 10pts to get them.

Kingsley wrote:If you don't want that, don't take those units. There's no rule saying that Fireblades and Broadsides are mandatory.

They are if you want to win without using Farsight.

Kingsley wrote:It was boring and homogenized the game. All Xenos armies (aside from Orks) should not be fast skimmer armies.

I'd much rather have an effective tank; I don't care about the game being homogenized. Think about it, the time to be self-righteous over that was long ago when we had fewer marine books.

Kingsley wrote:Why not take Marker Drones instead of Pathfinders and use their more accurate markerlights (with a Commander) to allow your Hammerheads (or even Broadsides) to fire at high BS while moving? Alternatively, use those Pathfinders as outflanking special weapon squads instead of Markerlight support.

Why not load up your marine army with scouts? Oh yeah, they don't kill anything.

 agnosto wrote:
A highly mobile force is one that can get into the thick of battle and back out again while performing surgical strikes, not sitting behind an ADL while watching the same tactics we had last edition (JSJ). Yes the suits move around but that's about it. If you want to fire more than one gun from your vehicle, you best park it in cover the whole game. You want your weak troops to actually bring enough weight of fire to kill something? You best not move from behind you ADL and you best hope your mandatory pathfinders hit with markerlights.

Kingsley wrote:So wait. You want a very mobile army, but you don't understand why anyone would take Devilfish?

Very classy; if you don't agree with something in my post, fine but resorting to childish "emoticons" only proves you're not trying to have a serious conversation but merely arguing. Yes, I don't understand why someone would take devilfish; they're not any more durable than any other army's transports and less so than many. No assault or open-top vehicles mean you're constantly forcing troops to climb in and out of the vehicle, wasting time instead of being able to jump in, blast something apart and get out before your opponent can react. I know I said assault option but keep in mind there are more uses to an assault vehicle than just running up and hitting something with pointy sticks. We get one transport option vs. the multitude that other armies have; proof again that the designers want this army sitting somewhere. Just imagine a mobile AV13 or 14 platform that would allow an entire unit to shoot out of it; basically creating a mobile weapons platform. That would fit the flavor of the Tau and be something different.

You're more than welcome to disagree with my opinions, the world won't end for either of us; however, if you do respond, try to be a bit more civil.

Cheers.

This thread could use a poll.

I haven't played yet but overall, it looks slightly better than before.

At first I was really excited, but then as I started writing lists the army still suffers from its old problems that just made them not fun anymore.

1) Fragile troops that will have a difficult time holding objectives.

2) There's still no answer to tough and or fast assault units running completely through a foot list.

...which leads to.

3) The devilfish is still overpriced and terrible which seriously hampers movement and troop protection. Even "Mech Tau" has limited mobility now they cannot fire as fast skimmers.


I'm fairly certain a lot can be mitigated with allies but I don't see their strength as a primary army. All they have going for them is numerous AA options.Which means they will probably be relegated as allies in most competitive lists by the end of this year.