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I had an idea for a Dreadnought Codex but:
I'm struggling to think of variations of the Dreadnought that don't already exist to add variety to the Codex, and also to provide enough options for HQ, Troops, Elites, Fast Attack and Heavy Support.
I'm also struggling to think of fluff for said Chapter of Dreadnoughts to flourish around my Codex..
Help?

Well in terms of variety, what about a Broadside-like Dreadnought?

Ehm... this would be a Chapter incapable of supporting itself. It has no Scouts and no "living" troops to replenish the fallen, because they *will* lose Dreadnoughts in battle. It's simply inevitable.

Dreadnoughts aren't robots, after all, they're an extremely-damaged, but living Space Marine entombed in a war-coffin.

How, fluff-wise, would it replace new members? Who drives them into combat? Who pilots their vehicles?

I'd play against that, if only to see Jetpack dreadnoughts.

 Psienesis wrote:
Ehm... this would be a Chapter incapable of supporting itself. It has no Scouts and no "living" troops to replenish the fallen, because they *will* lose Dreadnoughts in battle. It's simply inevitable.

Dreadnoughts aren't robots, after all, they're an extremely-damaged, but living Space Marine entombed in a war-coffin.

How, fluff-wise, would it replace new members? Who drives them into combat? Who pilots their vehicles?

Well that's kind of the point, aside from pilots (and probably techmarines) they don't have many SMs left undamaged.

Any dreadnoughts beyond repair would be recovered from battle, have their sarcophagi removed and then placed into a new dreadnought, built by the techmarines that maintain them?

Right. So, when the Chapter loses a Dread... it can't replace that Dread. There's no Battle Brother to get wounded to the point where installation into a Dread is his only chance for survival.

Generally, when a Dread is killed the near-dead Marine inside it is now really dead. Especially if it, say, takes a few missile hits, explodes, gets melta'd, you know, things that leave just a pair of stumpy, smoking legs.

 darthnatus wrote:
Well in terms of variety, what about a Broadside-like Dreadnought?

Are we thinking two twin linked lascannnons or something?

 Psienesis wrote:
Right. So, when the Chapter loses a Dread... it can't replace that Dread. There's no Battle Brother to get wounded to the point where installation into a Dread is his only chance for survival.

Generally, when a Dread is killed the near-dead Marine inside it is now really dead. Especially if it, say, takes a few missile hits, explodes, gets melta'd, you know, things that leave just a pair of stumpy, smoking legs.

There's hundreds of them.. I'm sure they can deal with losses of a few dreadnoughts per battle.. Or perhaps they draw 'recruits' from chapters they fight with?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, Darthnatus.. What's with the reposts?!?!

EDIT:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Right. So, when the Chapter loses a Dread... it can't replace that Dread. There's no Battle Brother to get wounded to the point where installation into a Dread is his only chance for survival.

Generally, when a Dread is killed the near-dead Marine inside it is now really dead. Especially if it, say, takes a few missile hits, explodes, gets melta'd, you know, things that leave just a pair of stumpy, smoking legs.

There's hundreds of them.. I'm sure they can deal with losses of a few dreadnoughts per battle.. Or perhaps they draw 'recruits' from chapters they fight with?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, Darthnatus.. What's with the reposts?!?!

Yeah sorry it's annoying as hell, my internet's bad so it doesn't show when it posts half the time.

Jump Pack Dreads do sound cool... Storm Shields and Chainfists anybody?

Side me with Psiensis on this. However, I think the idea has potential... so, how about a single company instead of a full chapter? Kinda like the Deathwing, only with dreadnoughts instead of terminators.

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:
Side me with Psiensis on this. However, I think the idea has potential... so, how about a single company instead of a full chapter? Kinda like the Deathwing, only with dreadnoughts instead of terminators.

That could also work, though I think a Chapter has more promise for fluff. I will take this as an idea until the thread burns itself out, in case I see any more awesome ideas, thanks!

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:
Side me with Psiensis on this. However, I think the idea has potential... so, how about a single company instead of a full chapter? Kinda like the Deathwing, only with dreadnoughts instead of terminators.

I'm pretty sure anyone seeing a hundred drop pods raining from the sky and a hundred dreadnoughts busting out of them would need some new pants.

 Kain wrote:

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:
Side me with Psiensis on this. However, I think the idea has potential... so, how about a single company instead of a full chapter? Kinda like the Deathwing, only with dreadnoughts instead of terminators.

I'm pretty sure anyone seeing a hundred drop pods raining from the sky and a hundred dreadnoughts busting out of them would need some new pants.

Exactly my logic. Might give squads of more than 3 the 'Fear' special rule ;3

First of all, you're making one of the cardinal sins of homebrewed fluff. It's laughably over the top. You're trying to make an entire chapter filled out of the most venerated and powerful elites out of a chapter. You might as well say that you have an idea for an entire chapter made out of other chapter's chapter masters, or a Justice league with 50 of Superman.

Secondly, it just shows that you don't understand the scarcity of which technology like dreadnoughts exists within the setting. Dreadnoughts are priceless relics which techmarines barely have the understanding and resources to be able to reproduce in small quantities. The Ultramarines, arguably the most influential and renowned chapter only have 29 dreads at their disposal. It's like saying every marine in your army wears artificer armor, carries an inferno pistol and a master crafted power sword.

Thirdly, it shows that you don't really "get" dreadnoughts. They are not even close to self sufficient, and spend most of their down time in stasis.

The beauty of the 40K universe is that it is designed to let you insert your own ideas and outlook on the universe. However, some ideas just crap all over the most basic and accepted conventions of the setting that you'll be met with reactions that range from smirks and eye rolls to vehement nerd rage.

Sorry dude, it's just not a viable idea within the framework of the setting.

maybe other chapters that don't have any/enough dread shells but mortally wounded distinguished marines to this chapter? They become part of the chapter under the condition of them still surviving even though they no longer fight for their original chapter?

Also... a Space Marine from one Chapter does not go to another Chapter. If they qualify for Dreadnought-hood, and there's an available sarcophagi, they become a Dreadnought of their own Chapter. The reason for this is wrapped up in the hypno-indoctrination, Chapter legacy, history, tactics, interpretation of the Codex Astartes, Chapter-specific practices and religious observances (if any) and all that sort of thing.

Also, the loss of a single Dreadnought is a serious blow to any Space Marine Chapter that has them. These are veterans with, potentially, hundreds to thousands of years of history and experience that are now lost to the Chapter, not to mention the loss of a nigh-irreplaceable piece of relic technology.

The only time you will see a "transfer" of personnel is when a given Chapter assists in the founding of one of its own Successor Chapters. In that case, a group of Veterans and, possibly, a Company Captain are moved to the new Chapter, to become that Chapter's core leadership and trainers of the newly-minted Battle Brothers.

 Oakenshield wrote:
First of all, you're making one of the cardinal sins of homebrewed fluff. It's laughably over the top. You're trying to make an entire chapter filled out of the most venerated and powerful elites out of a chapter. You might as well say that you have an idea for an entire chapter made out of other chapter's chapter masters, or a Justice league with 50 of Superman.

Secondly, it just shows that you don't understand the scarcity of which technology like dreadnoughts exists within the setting. Dreadnoughts are priceless relics which techmarines barely have the understanding and resources to be able to reproduce in small quantities. The Ultramarines, arguably the most influential and renowned chapter only have 29 dreads at their disposal. It's like saying every marine in your army wears artificer armor, carries an inferno pistol and a master crafted power sword.

Thirdly, it shows that you don't really "get" dreadnoughts. They are not even close to self sufficient, and spend most of their down time in stasis.

The beauty of the 40K universe is that it is designed to let you insert your own ideas and outlook on the universe. However, some ideas just crap all over the most basic and accepted conventions of the setting that you'll be met with reactions that range from smirks and eye rolls to vehement nerd rage.

Sorry dude, it's just not a viable idea within the framework of the setting.

I don't think you had to say all that stuff about how he 'doesn't understand the universe' and how he's "crapping all over the established fluff" it's meant to be fun! And nobody can deny that hundreds of Dreadnoughts charging a Tau firing line wouldn't epic! This is what the 20th chapter is for and why it's left out of fluff. So that people can have fun with it.

... the other problem I see is one of tactics. Dreads are hulking. They don't fit through a doorway designed for a normal man, or even a normal Space Marine. If they are expected to fight in an urban environment, they are going to be seriously disadvantaged.

. . . Thanks for destroying my idea, the post was intended to be reasons as for why there COULD, not couldn't. And, Psinesis. Think of 'Death Watch but for Dreadnaughts'...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 darthnatus wrote:

 Oakenshield wrote:
First of all, you're making one of the cardinal sins of homebrewed fluff. It's laughably over the top. You're trying to make an entire chapter filled out of the most venerated and powerful elites out of a chapter. You might as well say that you have an idea for an entire chapter made out of other chapter's chapter masters, or a Justice league with 50 of Superman.

Secondly, it just shows that you don't understand the scarcity of which technology like dreadnoughts exists within the setting. Dreadnoughts are priceless relics which techmarines barely have the understanding and resources to be able to reproduce in small quantities. The Ultramarines, arguably the most influential and renowned chapter only have 29 dreads at their disposal. It's like saying every marine in your army wears artificer armor, carries an inferno pistol and a master crafted power sword.

Thirdly, it shows that you don't really "get" dreadnoughts. They are not even close to self sufficient, and spend most of their down time in stasis.

The beauty of the 40K universe is that it is designed to let you insert your own ideas and outlook on the universe. However, some ideas just crap all over the most basic and accepted conventions of the setting that you'll be met with reactions that range from smirks and eye rolls to vehement nerd rage.

Sorry dude, it's just not a viable idea within the framework of the setting.

I don't think you had to say all that stuff about how he 'doesn't understand the universe' and how he's "crapping all over the established fluff" it's meant to be fun! And nobody can deny that hundreds of Dreadnoughts charging a Tau firing line wouldn't epic! This is what the 20th chapter is for and why it's left out of fluff. So that people can have fun with it.

Cheers darthnatus

DeathWatch is a short-term (for a Space Marine) assignment. Those who serve in the DeathWatch eventually return to their own Chapters. The exception to this are those who simply have no Chapters to return to, either because their Chapter suffered such casualties it was irrecoverable, or because the Marine in question is a "Black Shield", meaning that some stain on his honor prevents him from returning to his home Chapter (or that he may be a former Renegade Marine).

And the reason I'm "destroying" this idea is because, in your first post, you expressed difficulty in coming up with the fluff of how this Chapter would work. What I provided is the established fluff of the setting on Dreadnoughts and their functions within a Space Marine Chapter, as well as what it takes to become one. The reason you're having trouble coming up with the fluff to support this idea is because the fluff of the setting doesn't support the idea.

I mean, if you want to build a Chapter of Dreads, it's your army and your money, knock yourself out. If you want to have fluff that coheres with the fluff presented in the Codices and other sources, well, that's where you're going to run into trouble. You're either going to need to simply hand-wave it, or bend some significant traditions in the setting.

... and while a Dread might not believe in doorways, hardened ferrocrete certainly isn't something it can easily kool-aid through, let alone armored adamantium or any of the other space-metals in the setting. You know what else stops a Dread dead in its tracks? A freaking flight of stairs.

 Psienesis wrote:
... the other problem I see is one of tactics. Dreads are hulking. They don't fit through a doorway designed for a normal man, or even a normal Space Marine. If they are expected to fight in an urban environment, they are going to be seriously disadvantaged.

Dreadnoughts don't believe in doorways.

They could also just smash through the door, assuming it's Cities of Death.

Also, this chapter SHOULD exist if only to make the most 80's game of all time even MORE 80's! Also, Titans made of titans and space marines inside of space marines! Oh wait that one's official fluff.

 Psienesis wrote:
DeathWatch is a short-term (for a Space Marine) assignment. Those who serve in the DeathWatch eventually return to their own Chapters. The exception to this are those who simply have no Chapters to return to, either because their Chapter suffered such casualties it was irrecoverable, or because the Marine in question is a "Black Shield", meaning that some stain on his honor prevents him from returning to his home Chapter (or that he may be a former Renegade Marine).

Exactly that but rotational. Each Dreadnought will serve a certain period of time in the Chapter, and then return to his own Chapter. I guess it'll be seen as an honour to serve the Chapter, Captains/Chapter Master will serve until they die, however.

So what you end up with is a bunch of senile Dreads spinning around on their hip-motivators and randomly cycling up their assault cannons, shooting jets of burning prom-juice in the air from their flamers, all trying to one-up one another with "back in my day" stories... until Bjorn the Fell-Handed stomps in and delivers all these whippersnappers a righteous beat-down.

See now I'm tempted to start up this except I have a feeling I'd get in trouble with the mods...

 Psienesis wrote:
So what you end up with is a bunch of senile Dreads spinning around on their hip-motivators and randomly cycling up their assault cannons, shooting jets of burning prom-juice in the air from their flamers, all trying to one-up one another with "back in my day" stories... until Bjorn the Fell-Handed stomps in and delivers all these whippersnappers a righteous beat-down.

I imagine them to be more like Rubric Marines... Awakened for battle by their loyal Techmarines, the oldest of them only sparking during the fighting

But yano, not Chaos xD

Now I'm imagining a game of space hulk played entirely with Broodlords and dreadnoughts.

Love the idea of a pure dread army but you can basically do it already with BA, who can get dreads in troops, elite and heavy.

As has been said, fluff would be more believable if it was a full company rather than a chapter, but that would still be plenty.

That being said you could look at something like this perhaps:

HQ
Chaplain Dred
Libby Dred

Elite
Ven Dreds
Contemptor Dreds

Troop
Death Company Dreds
Vanilla Dreds

Fast Attack
This is the tricky slot. Jump pack Dreds are frankly outrageous, although BA libby dred can effectively have it if they take the Wings of Sanguinius psychic power. Personally i would consider this the place for possibly a Storm Raven variant that can carry 2 Dreds. points cost increase required but seeing as we are trying to find a workable option. Yes you could just use pods but ravens allow you to assault from it.

Heavy
Iron Clad Dreds