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Now that the Heavy Bolter guys are only 5 points cheaper than the Missile Launcher or Plasmacannon guys, and cost the same as the Multumelta guys, do you field them anymore?

I remember back in 4th edition when the meta hadnt gone completely overboard, that the Heavy Bolter was a respectable weapon. The only weapon that was broken back in the day and has been fixed since 5th is the Starcannon, I'll give you that. But IMO there were less scary things overall in 4th than nowadays.

Nowadays, I'll grant you that 6th edition has made the Heavy Bolter a lot more effective than 5th edition - you can move and shoot with it (snapfire), you can destroy AV 11 with it, you have a much better chance of destroying AV 10 as well due to HPs. And finally, there's the Overwatch.

But other than that, why on earth would you take a Devastator team just to arm them with Heavy Bolters? The Whirlwind is a hell of a lot cheaper and does a better job - in fact, you almost get two Whirlwinds for the price of a minimum 5 man Devastator squad armed with HBs.

And because the Heavy Support section is so hotly contested, what with the Stormravens, the Land Raiders, the Centurion Devastators, the Thunderfire Cannon etc., if you're gonna take Devastators, you might as well give them Plasma Cannons - you got your small blast markers against infantry, but then you got your freakin AP2! And S7! For a mere 20 points more in total. Or take the Missile Launchers for one more strength, but of course you lose the awesome AP2, but at least your guns dont get hot.

Or look at tactical squads - if my memory is correct, back in 5th edition tac squads got a HB for free. Now you have to pay for it. Might as well take a Plasma Cannon or Lascannon.

So really, other than the model holding the Heavy Bolter looking cool, how can it compete with the other armaments of the Space Marine arsenal anymore?

If the Heavy Bolter had been 5 points, it would have made perfect sense. Or, say the cost of the Plasma Cannon and the Missile Launcher raised to 20 points. But right now, the other options are too good to pass up. I think only Imperial Fists chapter tactics benefit more from wielding HBs than the rest.

Totally agree, I was hoping it would change to salvo in 6th / Marines codex but no love.

Yes, it is iconic marine weapon, but sadly not particularly good. It still use it on tacticals occasionally, it is decent for a squad that has to move a lot, and as I run IF successor, Bolter Drill makes it slightly better.

Not really. It just isn't that good with the other weapons available with respect to the costs alas.

About the only reasonable way to run them would be in an IF devastator squad to take advantage of the chapter tactics. It actually makes them somewhat useful, and they kill light vehicles. But that's about it.

I am thinking about eventually modelling up a second havoc squad with heavy bolters, but only because I will have them left over from CSM boxes and because I face quite a lot of Eldar , Tau and Orks.

Forge world recently released a downloadable file on their webpage on new stats for more SM characters and chapters tactics( sorry for no link,I'm on my phone)

One of the new chapter tactics(star phantoms) was that for one turn per game, all units in the detachment with rapid firing, salvo, assault and heavy weapons have their weapons become twin linked

Their unique character(can't rmb his name) allowed the player to field devestators as elite and heavy choices.

I know this isn't totally related to the thread but with the star phantoms chapter tactics, devestators(HB) should be more powerful and readily available. If your opponent is cool with you using FW chapter tactics

Messed up while attempting to post pictures on the thread from my phone

Interesting about the Star Phantoms, but you still wouldn't use HB's on them then would you? You'd just take more ML's etc.

If someone is at max squad coherency, I like the HB over the blasts for hitting. But then, I regret every frag missile I send downrange, so I've always favored HBs over MLs in an anti-horde role. People with better relations with their scatter die might feel differently. PCs suffer from the same problem.

I will occasionally field them in tac squads that are on the move. I used to field them in dev squads, due to the large price difference between them an the other options. With the new codex and pricing, they've lost that edge. And the opportunity cost of not taking something better in the HS slot got larger.

I think there is a place for the HB, but sadly, it's not in the hands of a PA marine on foot. Speeders, dakka preds, attack bikes, and scouts are all good places to field them.

I run them with my Imperial Fists in the Tactical Squads as backfield objective holders. It is a good well-rounded weapon for such tasks.

As previously mentioned the HB is pretty lackluster in all the chapters except IF.
I run a IF successor home-brewed chapter so I'll stick them on tacticals with a plasmagun anc combi srgt. move midfield in rhinos and drop-off the HB, then keep moving with the other half while the HBs provide covering fire. It's actually decent against Tau and Necrons where it gets to deny armor-saves. It'd be cool if it had the Pinning rule like a Sniper shot or something else to give it a minor boost.

The heavy bolter does do this for you: if some tacticals have a heavy bolter, they can start putting wounds on other troops that don't have such a heavy weapon at range. That is to say, look at tactical marines vs dire avengers on foot. The tactical marines with the heavy bolter stand a much better chance against them starting the shooting at 36" instead of waiting for 24' bolter range, which is getting very close to the 18" death range of the DA shuriken catapult. Obviously, games aren't vacuums, but this is one advantage. Neither the ML nor the Lascannon will kill as many DA as the heavy bolter.

Well but there's the Plasma Cannon, you see. I love that weapon and at +5 points it's too good to pass up, given that it can make any player sweat including a Deathwing player.

That's true. There is still the nagging question of how many hits does the small template get on average at BS 4?

Heavy bolter Devs may be useful. But this depends on your local meta. Against Serpents they are useless, but against AV10/11 flyers or skimmers they can inflict some damage.
At the moment 40k is more a shooting game. The more dice you roll the better.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Heavy bolter Devs may be useful. But this depends on your local meta. Against Serpents they are useless, but against AV10/11 flyers or skimmers they can inflict some damage.
At the moment 40k is more a shooting game. The more dice you roll the better.

Actually, the more aggregate results, the better. This is why the autocannon en masse is such a wonderful weapon. If only marines could have autocannons.... sigh.

I love my HB but only in my Tactical squads with either a flamer or a plasma gun. That way they get to an objective and sit down, mainly effective against infantry. And as others have said I run IF, so it works great for me.

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:
I run them with my Imperial Fists in the Tactical Squads as backfield objective holders. It is a good well-rounded weapon for such tasks.

Wow. It just occurred to me that Heavy Bolters were included in the Bolter Drill rule. That makes that so much better! I mean, Imperial Fists is perhaps the best gunline CTs. You can have great horde control via Attack Bikes plus Tank Hunters... If I weren't making a fast army I would definitely do an IF gunline.

the only thing i've seen them be remotely amusing with is

rune priest (divination)
6 long fangs (5 heavy bolters)
drop pod

even then its meh since grey hunters can do it better and your having to use a hq slot to make it viable .... logan with 5 multi-melta long fangs in a drop pod is another story all together.

 McNinja wrote:

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:
I run them with my Imperial Fists in the Tactical Squads as backfield objective holders. It is a good well-rounded weapon for such tasks.

Wow. It just occurred to me that Heavy Bolters were included in the Bolter Drill rule. That makes that so much better! I mean, Imperial Fists is perhaps the best gunline CTs. You can have great horde control via Attack Bikes plus Tank Hunters... If I weren't making a fast army I would definitely do an IF gunline.

Yep, they're a blast! I typically let tac squads walk across the field and lock something down at range while the opponent tries to grab the objectives. Then I just shoot them off of it, the rest of the time my Dev Squad, and Centurion Devs blow up tanks and my command squad, bikes and speeders run around causing havoc.

Either making Hvy Bolters Salvo 3/5 or Heavy 5 would solve their problem.

They just don't put out enough shots on a marine when you compare it to say... a Firewarrior... with an Ethereal in range... and with a Cadre Fireblade... So much more S5 for cheaper. Less durable, but at range 30', who cares?

They just need more shots.

 TheKbob wrote:
Either making Hvy Bolters Salvo 3/5 or Heavy 5 would solve their problem.

They just don't put out enough shots on a marine when you compare it to say... a Firewarrior... with an Ethereal in range... and with a Cadre Fireblade... So much more S5 for cheaper. Less durable, but at range 30', who cares?

They just need more shots.

Making them that good would be nice for the Sororitas as well

Well, to be fair, the heavy bolter hasn't been very good since... ever. Yes, 4th edition saw heavy bolters be less pointless, but 4th edition also saw the old terrain rules as well.

What really killed what little life the heavy bolter had was when GW decided that 40k should be a game fought between mech gunlines. Guard players went from a codex where they could only take one chimera per infantry platoon to one where they could run leafblowers, while marine codices got razorbacks, etc. etc. etc. Having whole armies (read: every game you played) where your heavy bolters literally couldn't hurt anything for the first few turns of the game was pretty much the end for them.

Then you take that and make it even worse. Heavy bolters are just straight bad against fliers, as they have all the problems of not being useful against vehicles, but now you have a harder time hitting them, and they're also virtually useless against the new monstrous creatures as well. I can't even be bothered to run the numbers for how long it will take to take down a riptide or a wraithknight with a heavy bolter, because I already know that the results are going to be dismal.

If 40k does a big about face and makes troops choices worth taking, rather than being something you min-max away in order to take more long-range high-S, low-Ap guns, then the heavy bolter might get to be useful again.

Doesn't seem likely, though.

Not sure what would make the heavy bolter a competitive choice. Maybe something like Salvo 2/4(or 3/5) S5 AP4 Pinning. This would make it about as good at killing infantry as the MM is at killing tanks.

I find that HBs either destroy an enemy or do nada. against guard, tau, ect, I field a dev. squad or two of them to cover the rest of my BA as they deep strike behind tanks and the like to take them out.

I think that they have a very special role as infantry mulchers, 'cause I find no other heavy weapon annihilates medium to light infantry like a squad of heavy bolters.

I'm not 100% if the same can be applied to the new SM codex though. I 'spose I just love sitting at middle finger range of about 20-30 inches away where my opponent can't do anything 'cause they are too busy trying to fight off my deep strikes combines with my advance. BA FTW

The heavy bolter doesn't need to try and compete with the plasma cannon, because they have two different purposes. Plasma cannons are for bombarding an enemy from a nearby fortified building, whereas HBs are for assisting in pushing up so that your heavy hitting CC guys can focus.

 thetallestgiraffe wrote:
The heavy bolter doesn't need to try and compete with the plasma cannon, because they have two different purposes. Plasma cannons are for bombarding an enemy from a nearby fortified building, whereas HBs are for assisting in pushing up so that your heavy hitting CC guys can focus.

This I don't get. Care to elaborate? Why cant one be used for the other?


I think that the Missile Launcher one-ups the Heavy Bolter in almost every aspect. The frag blast will deal with light infantry, and the krak missile performs great against tanks and MCs. To top it all off you have +12" range.

I don't think HB Devs are a worthwhile addition, SM codex has mountains of cheap anti-infantry firepower in the Heavy slot between dakka predator, TFC and whirlwind.

If I was IF, I'd run Heavy Bolters in my Tac squads and focus them on killing light infantry while my nasty tank hunter Devs fry armor at range.

That said, I'd be curious to try out dual heavy bolter speeders for a cheap way to thin out nasty units like Khorne Dogs.

I did not use Heavy Bolters during 4th or 5th Editions. Nothing fundamental has changed that
would make me start using them in 6th.

They are an iconic weapon for the Space Marines but they simply do not deliver enough results.
I have half a dozen HB armed models for my Marine collection but simply for the sake of completeness.

 Sir Arun wrote:

 thetallestgiraffe wrote:
The heavy bolter doesn't need to try and compete with the plasma cannon, because they have two different purposes. Plasma cannons are for bombarding an enemy from a nearby fortified building, whereas HBs are for assisting in pushing up so that your heavy hitting CC guys can focus.

This I don't get. Care to elaborate? Why cant one be used for the other?


I think that the Missile Launcher one-ups the Heavy Bolter in almost every aspect. The frag blast will deal with light infantry, and the krak missile performs great against tanks and MCs. To top it all off you have +12" range.

Except that frag blasts don't deal with anything. And krak missiles don't perform great at all. I'm more likely to bring a heavy bolter at this point than a ML.

My firewarriors are happy to see you do not like your heavy bolters, they do not enjoy facing them.

In a slightly more serius note, HB are designed for one purpose-ruin the day to 4+ infantry. and they are good at it.

Can other things do it? yes. but differently.

A whirlwind would work much better against a giant blob, but wont be nearly as good against a small number of spread out guys (like a bunch of stormtroopers, scouts or dire avengers). and unlike it they could also threat light transports/walkers

Plasma cannons, while threatening more armored targets and probably poses greater risk to light transports and walkers, still lack the number of shots to actually threat 4+ squads, and risk the user to boot, and is rendered completely useless if you move unlike the HB that still gets to try.

That's the whole story. HB gives you the ability to get rid of 4+ troopers, at range, and have just enough power per shot, coupled with a good number of shots. and taking only the "heavy duty" guns would leave you with less guns (as they cost more, even if not much more-its enough to pull a few bodies), and would leave you lacking the number of shots required.

Its just a decent all-purpose gun, just like the ML. its main goal is to get rid of the things that wont be your center of attention, but eventually wins games: medium troops and light transports. (and if you are IF, they are better at both, take at least 1 squad of them, at the very least they will be "decent", against the right opponents they will be "OMGWTFBBQ")