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I have noticed that there is a trend forming in the community where plenty of people buy their figures pre-painted or commission the painting for someone else.

Personally I don't understand this at all.

I wouldn't have the same connection at all to the miniatures that I have not painted myself. I have never sold any "extra" figures that I have which are painted beyond priming. I also would not buy any miniature that has been already painted and then use it on a game.

Huge part of my hobby consists of building and converting miniatures and then painting them and at the same time I learn and master skills needed to accomplish these tasks. Sometimes I might sat on my work desk for a long time just trying to find out what the next miniature is going to look and what am I trying to tell with that particular miniature. After these are clear the task of actual conversion work will begin and the feeling can't be described with anything else than having a flow moment where everything is perfectly clear and you intuitively know what to do next like as someone would be guiding your hands.

Even at this stage the miniature starts having a personality. His or hers tilt of the head and position of the legs shows confidence or fear, the way of how the gun is kept shows the amount of training and battles fought before.

Painting adds even more life to the miniature. Is he a strict follower of rules and keeps his gear at prime condition or does he let things that do not affect the performance get dirty.

If I let someone do that instead of myself, I would lose a lot of the fun and what the hobby means for me.

I am not saying that my way would be the only way to be able to enjoy the hobby and instead I would like to understand what do you get by commsissioning you army to be painted by someone else?

Some people don't have time to paint, but apreciate painted models. Some lack the skills of painting effectivly and find the hobby more appealing with playing painted armies that look good, instead of an army painted horribly that they did( in their opinion) why paint your car yourself with a rattle can and no experience when you can pay someone with time and equipment with experience to do a great job.

I dont have the time to paint, i have the money to get all the stuff i need but not the time to paint it all. So commission is the only way ill get a fully painted army. I also hate painting my models. I love assembling and collecting and playing but painting is just a chore for me.

So i have resorted to getting my armies painted and having to pay for it. Its not cheap but at least its better than having unfinished armies.

Just cause you can and want to paint doesn't mean everyone can and wants to paint. some people just want to make a list and play the game

Personally...I don't play the game but I sure do own alot of miniatures for it and spend a lot of time painting. Everyone takes something different from this hobby.

FinnSeer wrote:
Personally I don't understand this at all.

I think you answered your own question mate.

I'll expand by saying, can you use an automotive spray gun and have a spray booth to bake it? If you crashed your car would you paint it yourself? Or would you pay a panel beater to paint it?

The answer for many to most people is that they don't have the skill, and all they want is a nicely painted army on the tabletop.

Myself, I am in the "paint it yourself" category, however I don't care if someone gets someone else to paint their little war dollies because it's not my business. I prefer to play against painted armies for the immersion factor, but it's not that important

Different perspectives

Some people are just crappy painters and feel bad about how their models look when they do them themselves. For those with great paying jobs, it can be really nice to have someone else paint your Skaven horde while you enjoy the game.

I know people who've teamed up because one doesn't like to build and the other doesn't like to paint. Both love to play the game and this teamwork approach makes both of them happy.

Personally, my painting is suffering because I neglect it. But I struggle through it all because I want the overall satisfaction of having done it all on my own, but I'm not going to disparage anyone who wants to do it differently.

I reject the entire premise of the OP's question.

Why does there need to be reasoning behind it?

I think most people just don't have the time but they have the money, perhaps they can paint but the amount of time they could be playing is cut short by everything else they do, and painting their armies would cut even further from the game time.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I reject the entire premise of the OP's question.

Why does there need to be reasoning behind it?

Because he's curious?
Do we need to submit thread topics for peer review prior to starting them now?

I barely have time to play, let alone paint. What I do have is disposable income and an excellent painter friend who charges very reasonably. This is actually a relatively recent development as for the last 20 years I've done all my own painting.

But now.. I'm just too busy. I have too many things I have to do to spend that much time on something I only want to do.

Theres absolutely nothing wrong with buying and using pre-painted models and armies, provided that you're honest about and never pass it off as your own work.

Some people may not have the time, motivation and skill to paint entire armies to a decent standard. Surely its better to have a painted army, bought 2nd hand or painted on commission, than an army of half painted, base coated and bare models? (which happens to describe my own armies).

Yes, you don't develop the same attachment to your miniatures and sense of personal achievement in painting them. But for some people, that personal attachment might isntead come from actually using the models, when a particular model or unit (e.g. a Captain, or a Vanguard Veteran Unit) does something cool like kill a Carnifex, or destroy down an Elite unit.

Speaking as one of the people that paints the miniatures that someone else does not want to paint/does not have the time to paint/does not have the skill to paint [Circle appropriate] - I have no complaint about folks that decide that having a painted army is worth spending money on.

The Auld Grump

And hey, I have nerve damage in my dominant arm that prevents me from holding a brush steady. Guess I don't get to have a painted army anymore, eh?

My wife had her's commissioned because the she cannot paint these figures at all (too fiddly in her words and gives her a headache). I offered to paint hers for her but seeing as how long it would take to get them painted, she opted to outsource the work. We have a friend who does commission work for minis and painted her entire malifaux collection. She's super happy with the results and now has a fully painted collection when she goes and plays with friends or at the local shop. Personally, I like having my stuff painted by myself but I can see the other side easily enough.

FinnSeer wrote:
I wouldn't have the same connection at all to the miniatures that I have not painted myself.

That's just it... a lot of players aren't looking for a 'connection; with their figures. They just want to play the game... and since some venues insist on painted miniatures, if you're not interested in doing that yourself, you need to find someone else to do it.

Huge part of my hobby consists of building and converting miniatures and then painting them and at the same time I learn and master skills needed to accomplish these tasks.

That's fantastic, and I hope you get much enjoyment out of your hobby for years to come.

But that's your hobby. For many, their hobby is gaming. Not painting or converting.

You don't need to paint the pieces in order to enjoy a game of Monopoly. For many players, miniature games are no different. The pieces are just prettier. Sometimes.

... what do you get by commsissioning you army to be painted by someone else?

A painted army.

because of the amount of time.

because of the product knowledge&experimentation you need to do a good job

because of the hundreds of dollars worth of paint you need (you can get by using a few colors but a large range is much much better)

because of hundreds to even thousands of dollars worth of equipment you need to do the best job possible (expensive brushes, air compressor, respirator, spray booth, air brush, tools etc)

because of the YEARS it takes to develop painting skills.

Some people, a. Can't paint, b. don't have the time to paint, c. Hate painting, d. Want to play an army right away and need help finishing it, e. don't have the tools or space to do it, f. It's the way that they and their significant other enjoy the hobby together, g. They might like someone's work, and feel like supporting the community by paying the commission painter, h. They can't paint to the same standard and want to use the painting quality as a bartering chip when trading the army with someone else.

Just because other people do not fit into your idea of how this hobby is enjoyed, does not make them broken, misguided mentally Ill, or otherwise non-enthusiasts. I hate painting and it's a chore, and have given up on trying to maintain a high quality some time ago. Converting and building on the other hand I really enjoy. I have more terrain than I know what to do with.... Last but not least there's also gaming. If I can find a shortcut to gaming by being able to afford having someone paint my army: done. Sitting in a room by myself painting for hours on end every day is not my idea of fun.

 poda_t wrote:
I have more terrain than I know what to do with....

I know what you can do with it, donate it to the Bob-needs-terrain-fund! You'd be helping a good cause!

I paint all of my models, I enjoy painting, but I fething love seeing models that are painted superbly.

Who doesnt?

If some bloke offered to give you his immaculately painted army, with totally awesome banners and freehand designs for nothing, surely you would love to have it right? You can still paint your own stuff, you can just own a mint looking army as well.

Which means, rather not not understanding people that don't like to paint, I don't really understand your point.

Well painted armies look fantastic, and while it may not be quite as satisfying if you didn't paint it yourself (I agree, this is the main appeal, and I love seeing a model of mine get complimented on the table) its still a great model with a great paintjob, surely any hobbyist can see the appeal of such a thing?

A well painted model is a thing of beauty, so who cares who painted it?

as I got old and decrepit..

I cannot hold a brush steady at all.. fingers and hands shake to a bad degree. I can paint basic troops or undead or terrain alright, but fancy schmancy HQ or detailed small stuff is just not going to happen.

I have a decent job, and have been able to trade models for painting pretty successfully..

BUT.. I do it by necessity (perceived of course).. since I don't want the grey tide..

Some people just want to play. They may not enjoy the painting or have the time for it. Or they may prefer to spend their time playing rather than painting.

Anything that stops the grey tide is ok by me, I can totally understand people not wanting to paint getting someone else to paint it is better than all primed in my opinion.

JUST.DON'T.ENTER.IT.IN.PAINTING.COMPS >.<

I am sorry if my post came out with an arrogant tone, it sincerely was not my meaning. And I did not mean that my way would be the only way to be able to enjoy this hobby as I stated in the last phrase.

Amount of replies and some with a defensive tone may mean, that there are some stigma associated to not painting your own miniatures.

And as a general the hobby community does not accept discrimination of players at all so maybe there are more to discuss. I have witnessed myself a situation where one hobbyist at tournament started rough talk about his opponent's miniatures that were bought pre painted from ebay. Of course the rumbling player was penalized by me for this and given a warning with a note that next one will lead to a disqualification. It would have lead to disq at once but the insulted opponent showed great attitude and asked for a warning instead if he would receive an apologizy.

On that occasion I am quite sure that he would have used anything else as a way to trying to insult the opponent as he lost his game and using a pre-painted army was just the best he could come around with.

This and the talks about people using pre painted armies going on IRL lead me to start this topic.

I sincerely try to get an active discussion going on about this and I don't mean to insult or aggravate anyone on this topic (also not on any other topic too )

I can only talk about my experiences with the hobby and although I say them out I don't mean or expect anyone taking them as the only guideline for how to enjoy this hobby.

I am not a master painter in any terms and I started this hobby again after over ten years break just about a year ago.

During this restart of a Hobby I faced the fact that I have more money to spend on this hobby than when I was teen but now It is harder to find time to be spent with the miniatures. I have a year old daughter and I work 40 hours a week.

I still regurarly manage to get one full squad of marines(or similar) or one vehicle painted to better than normal tabletop standards during weekdays and another set during weekend although at weekends I rather do HQ:s or something else requiring more attention and converting.

I attend to Tale of Gamers campaigns where you play one game a month starting with 500pts and then increasing by each turn of the campaign to a 2000pts. As I often start new armies, these are best way for me to got that army finished too, as it gives you a reason to paint that 500pts per month and you don't have to have a 1850 or 2000pts army at hand in the beginning unlike in regular tournaments.

Painting army to a normal tabletop level don't have to hard as in fact this is all about techniques instead of a precise perfection or artistic insight and with a good tutorial you can start getting good results on the go. Also having everything at hand and doing bigger batches at few different occassions will mean timesavings.

These fellas for example were painted to this stage within 5 minutes per miniature.



And getting to this point took a minute more per miniature.



So after a 20 minutes of gluing, 10 minutes of priming and 60 minutes of painting their details, weapons and helmets were all that was left to paint. Depending on the colors to be used in those the time to be used will vary from 30 minutes to 60 minutes per squad as they require more attention even though they are smaller.

I did gluing and priming on Monday and then 30 minutes of painting from Tuesday to Friday each day.

I do my painting (except priming or airbrushing) at our second dining table in our kitchen and I have all tools and brushes in a toolbox and paints are in a separate box that are mostly kept near the drawer where I have my WiP stuff and bitzbox along with unused miniatures. It takes something like two minutes to start painting and other two minutes to clean up and stop painting.

If painting miniatures to a tabletop levels seem to take forever there must be some flaw with the used techniques or lack of planning.

Also you dont have to have the whole paint range to paint your army. Five generic colors and two washes are what you probably will need all the time with nearly every miniature you are going to paint and then you add up more colors to your box as you go as most miniatures need two to four colors as an extra and after you have done some of different miniatures you start to have one or two of those at your hand.

Some armies, like Ultramarines might as well be painted with only nine colors and two washes total and you can drop two of the colors needed if you want to mix your own different shades of blue. Three to four different brushes are needed for that paintjob.

So after a 40$ worth of base investment you need to invest 6$ to 12$ dollars per different unit you buy. That in most cases equals 1/10th of the price of the unit you bought in case you buy two boxes 30$ each.

Things said about the time and paints(=money) needed is not written to justify anything or blame anyone for using pre painted models. I wrote them because I wanted to clarify what the real costs and amount of time needed actually is so that won't scare people away from painting

Actually the only problem I can think of with having someone else to paint your miniatures is a tournament where painting points are added on top of the points you receive in games to determine the winner. It will just prevent people from entering to that tournament if they use miniatures painted by someone else.

So although I disagree on some reasons why not to paint your own I still don't have anything against it and I can admire a fine miniature no matter if it was painted by it's owner or not. Just as in the case of traditional art where owner very likely have not done the piece of art hanging on the wall.

Same applies to cars also. I like to tune my own instead of just leaving them to a custom shop and at the moment only road safety related things that require some kind of license are not done by myself.

And as a general the hobby community does not accept discrimination of players at all so maybe there are more to discuss.

There was a topic a while back, where if you had unpainted mini's the opposing players got bonuses against them.

People who liked painting cheered at it, and some would've preferred it go farther and ban players who use unpainted mini's.

So I wouldn't say that it does not accept discrimination..Unless you have unpainted mini's.

Like many wargamers I sometimes have more money than sense or time, and I have a tendency to buy figures and models for projects I don’t get around to completing.

There are various ways to deal with this situation.

Pile stuff in boxes in the attic until you can get around to it.
Challenge yourself with a time limit to finish an army.
Sell or give them away.
Pay someone else to paint them, or buy already painted armies (which can be cheap.)
Play with unpainted units.

I have used all these methods except for no.5, because I dislike playing with unpainted units.

As for discrimination against unpainted armies, of course it happens. Lots of players only want to play with painted armies. It is the same as Napoleonics players who don’t want to play SF space battles. No point complaining about them either.

One element I can identify with in the OP question is that many of us have been painting and collecting models for various games for years. And while we might still enjoy painting and assembling, it just doesn't provide the same return that it used to.

So I can totally identify with the phenomenon of wanting to start a new game/faction/army, but not wanting to slog through painting all the grunts. So in that case I might send off a chunk of the army - typically the more boring bits to assemble and paint (I am *really* tired of assembling fiddly plastic dudesmen now I'm in my late 40's!) and spending quality time assembling and painting up the more interesting models.

If finances allow, paying someone else to take the boring slog out of pulling a functional army together totally beats having to play with a 1/3rd painted army (or rather in my case because I refuse to play with unpainted models - sit with a 1/3rd painted army unused in boxes for years before I eBay it off in disgust) because ennui/distraction/family time has robbed me of the ability to complete the project.

Sure the gold standard is a 'Eavy Metal standard painted army completely customised by oneself, but that for many of us just is not a realistic proposition, or even worth the effort. So short of that there are many options. Subcontracting an element of the work (or even all of it) is one viable option depending on where you are on the fun/finance curve.

I have almost no time for hobby stuff. I’d rather play than paint, and I hate basing. But I also hate using unpainted stuff... so I find myself not having to time to paint and seldom playing (1 game of blood bowl this year, one game of 40k). Pretty frustrating.

So I’m looking at moving in to skirmish sized games, like X-Wing, Infinity and Dreadball. Having no gaming circle to speak of is another problem all together.

Bear with me, I’m approaching the point of the topic... I have some Arc Worlde KS stuff coming next year, and I think I’ll be employing the rather brilliant Tommie Seoul at Golem to paint up my stuff.

If I’m playing smaller games, I want the mini’s to look as amazing as possible. I can’t reach that level and would certainly struggle finding the time. The sculpts look amazing (and this goes for Infinity too) and there’s no way I could do them justice. I’ll paint the Dreadball stuff though. That needs to look rough and ready!

It makes sense to me, and you’re doing your bit for the local economy!

Cheers!



Automatically Appended Next Post:
@FinnSeer - "Some armies, like Ultramarines might as well be painted with only nine colors and two washes total and you can drop two of the colors needed if you want to mix your own different shades of blue. Three to four different brushes are needed for that paintjob."

ONLY nine colours plus two washes, possibly reduced to just SEVEN? Mixing your own shades AND four brushes?!

That's beyond table top quality, imo. No doubt your stuff looks great, but that list seems quite daunting to someone with little skill/time/confidence.

Prime, base coat, wash, details, highlight if you can be bothered - that's me!

I'll never win an award, but my stuff looks alright for throwing around (when it gets finished).

I like the Army Painter method, but I think their finished guys have a few extra levels added...

Miniatures seem to be one of those things that people *need* a connection to for some reason as opposed to tons of other things people paint for us.

Personally I prefer to paint all my models so that they look the way I want them to, but if someone else can paint them exactly how I want them to be painted then yeah I'll pay them if I don't have time. My connection with the models would still be the same. Just like I don't like paint my own car, or I didn't paint my own house or really paint much of anything beyond my models..

Yet I still like my car and house.

I barely have time to paint the stuff I want to paint, never mind the rank and file stuff, so I'd certainly be open to buying or commissioning painted rank and filers.

I'd love to paint it all myself, but I'm pretty slow, and 15mm horde infantry isn't that obvious or fun.

I love painting. In fact I love painting so much that I allow people to pay me to paint for them. I use the money's to buy more model's. Plus I get the added benefit of painting models for armies that I don't own so more variety in model as well as paint scheme.