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Just wondering what everyone's feelings are on these two paint sources. Aside from sprays and glazes these are the only two places I source my paints from.

Reaper: Comes in packs of 3 for easy layering, dropper applicator, better coverage when thinned w/water.

GW: More vibrant colors, metallics are without compare, on fine detail brushes paint dries almost before it can be applied, awful pot design.


All in all I think that Reaper MS, when given a good wash and a glaze at the end, gives WAY more depth of color than GW stuff. GW can offer better contrast and some of their specialty/technical paints are beyond incredible. What really does it for me is the applicator design. Reaper's use of dropper style preserves paint life even if the end gets clogged, whereas GW ummm well it does not.

Reaper for me in this little contest for the same reasons you've listed really:
Greater colour range, Triad system, cover spectacularly, longer life of paint, generally useable out of the bottle with minimal thinning.

GW only for a couple of specific paints like Ceramite White and Coelia Greenshade.

neither...

saying GW's metals are without compare means you probably haven't tried many other brands of metallics...
not trying to be a jerk here, but Vallejo Model Air are way better, and come in the dropper you love...
personally i am more than happy with my P3 metals, and i love the old-school flip-tops...

Reaper dries way too matte for me, and i have to paint over anything i lay down with a Reaper paint...
for instance, i have a bottle of Reaper Black, that i bought to give them another chance...
even using it for undercoating, it dries as a bland, flat, color with no life to it...
i have taken to mixing in an equal amount of P3 Armor Wash, which dries a bit glossy on its own, and the Reaper Black overpowers it and still dries too matte...
i then have to come back with a layer of pure P3 Black before i can start to paint the highlights...

so, yeah, basically, GW paints get chunky too fast, and Reaper is too matte, which is why i wouldn't buy either one...
whatever floats your boat, though...

cheers
jah

 jah-joshua wrote:
saying GW's metals are without compare means you probably haven't tried many other brands of metallics...
not trying to be a jerk here, but Vallejo Model Air are way better, and come in the dropper you love...
personally i am more than happy with my P3 metals, and i love the old-school flip-tops...

Yep. P3 metallics are what first brought me over to the range and I've loved them ever since... they even airbrush relatively easily, which is a plus for me. Most Vallejo Model Air metallics are pretty good, but I haven't been too thrilled by the gold in the Model Air range (not that it really matters because I don't use a lot of gold to begin with)

Reaper dries way too matte for me, and i have to paint over anything i lay down with a Reaper paint...
for instance, i have a bottle of Reaper Black, that i bought to give them another chance...
even using it for undercoating, it dries as a bland, flat, color with no life to it...
i have taken to mixing in an equal amount of P3 Armor Wash, which dries a bit glossy on its own, and the Reaper Black overpowers it and still dries too matte...
i then have to come back with a layer of pure P3 Black before i can start to paint the highlights...

For me, there is no such thing is "too matte" considering my paint process generally includes multiple coats of varnish (both gloss and matte), making the completed model have entirely uniform finish. If you don't like extra matte finishes, don't use any Tamiya XF colors...

 jah-joshua wrote:
neither...

saying GW's metals are without compare means you probably haven't tried many other brands of metallics...
not trying to be a jerk here, but Vallejo Model Air are way better, and come in the dropper you love...
personally i am more than happy with my P3 metals, and i love the old-school flip-tops...

Reaper dries way too matte for me, and i have to paint over anything i lay down with a Reaper paint...
for instance, i have a bottle of Reaper Black, that i bought to give them another chance...
even using it for undercoating, it dries as a bland, flat, color with no life to it...
i have taken to mixing in an equal amount of P3 Armor Wash, which dries a bit glossy on its own, and the Reaper Black overpowers it and still dries too matte...
i then have to come back with a layer of pure P3 Black before i can start to paint the highlights...

so, yeah, basically, GW paints get chunky too fast, and Reaper is too matte, which is why i wouldn't buy either one...
whatever floats your boat, though...

cheers
jah

Solid post, I will admit that I have only tried a bare handful of non GW metallics. I should have said that I like the GW coverage and finish from metallics rather than "without compare." I could certainly give Vallejo and P3 a try.

The matte effect from Reaper stuff actually works really really well with a glaze, but I agree prior to this they can look a kinda chalky. I wouldn't leave them as the "final" stage of paint, but for layering I prefer it to GW.

I actually hate the GW metallics - too thick and separate too easily.

Vallejo liquid gold is insanity in a bottle

I am generally sliding over to all Vallejo stuff, mainly model air - though the new game air stuff looks good too

I agree with those who say that the Reaper paints dry too matte. I managed to alleviate this somewhat by putting a drop of the appropriate color liner in with about three or four drops of the color I was using. I really wanted to like the line for the triads, but it was just too much trouble to work with and I had found a local retailer of Vallejo paints around that time.

 Peter Wiggin wrote:
Just wondering what everyone's feelings are on these two paint sources. Aside from sprays and glazes these are the only two places I source my paints from.

Reaper: Comes in packs of 3 for easy layering, dropper applicator, better coverage when thinned w/water.

GW: More vibrant colors, metallics are without compare, on fine detail brushes paint dries almost before it can be applied, awful pot design.


All in all I think that Reaper MS, when given a good wash and a glaze at the end, gives WAY more depth of color than GW stuff. GW can offer better contrast and some of their specialty/technical paints are beyond incredible. What really does it for me is the applicator design. Reaper's use of dropper style preserves paint life even if the end gets clogged, whereas GW ummm well it does not.

Vallejo liquid gold is one of the best on the market. IMHO.

http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/en_US/liquid-gold/family/11

I am not a big fan of Reaper. I use Vallejo and GW paints myself. I love Vallejo because of the pigments that are rich in color. I only use GW for color I can't find in Vallejo color lines or If I have a use for a GW color.

Reaper olive green layering w/green wash (not the worlds best paintjob, but to illustrate) before and after glazing. I guess one COULD say "well the glaze made the difference", but the end color also depends on the layering.

Ya'll are totally selling me on this Vallejo liquid gold.

If you paint with super-thin paint consistencies then Reaper are not a very good choice imo. You can thin P3 and even GW paints to just barely tinted water and they will still work for you.

Vallejo Model Color metallics and Andrea metallics are actually my favorite because they are so easy to use (http://atticwars40k.blogspot.com/2011/10/great-gold-rush-quest-for-best-gold.html). I also bow my head to Vallejo Liquid's but I'm generally too lazy to switch over to alcohol.

Peter, if you are thinking of going for the Liquid Gold, do a little research first...
it is alcohol based, so requires a different approach than acrylics, and, to me, is not worth the bother...
i just stick with the acrylics...

what little Vallejo Air Metal i use is the Gold, and the Aluminium...
at first i didn't like the gold, as it is very bright, and very green...
i adapted to using it in order to take advantage of the brilliance, and get rid of the green, by mixing it with P3 Rhulic Gold or P3 Solid Gold, and then washing over it with a mix of P3 Flesh Wash (a maroon color) and P3 Sanguine Base (a burgandy color)...
obviously, i like my golds more red than the standard VAM green tone...

the VAM Aluminium is probably the brightest silver i've come across in acrylics, so works great as the finishing highlight on all my metals...

i see what you mean about the glaze getting rid of the "chalky" look of the Reaper paints, Peter, but that is just not my painting style...
even though i use washes and glazes, i like my finished model to look like it wasn't washed or glazed, if you get my meaning...
it's like looking at a dipped model, which works great for army painting, but is missing something for display painting...

it could just be that i'm hard-headed, and don't like to do anything the easy way...

cheers
jah

Edit: Gunzhard, ninja action!!!

 jah-joshua wrote:
Peter, if you are thinking of going for the Liquid Gold, do a little research first...
it is alcohol based, so requires a different approach than acrylics, and, to me, is not worth the bother...
i just stick with the acrylics...

what little Vallejo Air Metal i use is the Gold, and the Aluminium...
at first i didn't like the gold, as it is very bright, and very green...
i adapted to using it in order to take advantage of the brilliance, and get rid of the green, by mixing it with P3 Rhulic Gold or P3 Solid Gold, and then washing over it with a mix of P3 Flesh Wash (a maroon color) and P3 Sanguine Base (a burgandy color)...
obviously, i like my golds more red than the standard VAM green tone...

the VAM Aluminium is probably the brightest silver i've come across in acrylics, so works great as the finishing highlight on all my metals...

i see what you mean about the glaze getting rid of the "chalky" look of the Reaper paints, Peter, but that is just not my painting style...
even though i use washes and glazes, i like my finished model to look like it wasn't washed or glazed, if you get my meaning...
it's like looking at a dipped model, which works great for army painting, but is missing something for display painting...

it could just be that i'm hard-headed, and don't like to do anything the easy way...

cheers
jah

Edit: Gunzhard, ninja action!!!

As much as I love the Liquid Gold I have to agree. Vallejo makes some great metallics in most of their lines. Also liquid gold is alcohol based. Pain in the butt to switch back and forth.

I am very very new to this so... not in the face!

I haven't given Reaper master series a try yet. I'm not really a fan of the P3 paints. Can't really describe why. If anyone can tell me, I sure would appreciate it

GW paints are what I started with and what I'm using for my first and current project. I agree that the pots are a little unwieldy. I have trouble thinning them to the consistency I want (i either have too much paint or too much water to get the paint where I want it and not anywhere else) but that's probably just as much my lack of experience with painting as it is the paint itself. It does tend to dry very quickly which is great for getting lots of coats on without a lot of downtime, but makes it hard to get the right amount of coverage where you want it or do an easy feathering effect.

I do love the colors though they're very bright and pretty. And it's easy enough to blend highlights with the GW washes and the base-layer color combos.

Of course I have not tried an airbrush, only ol fashioned Vallejo brushes (which have been good to me so far) so my opinion may vary if I do get my hands on an airbrush and my opinion may be worth nothing since I don't have one

Edit: oh and I've never had a problem with GW paints being chunky? Like I said, I haven't tried much else and I'm very new, but they go on relatively smoothly for me

I love GW paints, and I even prefer pots over bottles. I like wet palettes, and with dropper bottles, 90% of the time, 1 drop is way too much paint, and overnight, whatever is left diffuses and kills the wet palette. Also, GW paints, like Vallejo Game, are much more saturated colors, appropriate for fantasy/scifi (and terrible for realistic models). I happen to like the comic book look with exaggerated colors.

One major factor in choosing is whether you want your basecoat to start on the midtone, or whether you want it to start with the darkest tone. The GW system has its base colors as the darkest tone, from which you wash for recesses, and then layer up. If your paint style is such that you want darker colors for lowlights, GW won't work as well, unless you combine it with other paints.

On the other hand, if you like to start at the darkest point and work up (which often works well because the darkest points are the lowest recesses, and generally you paint upwards towards the highest edges), GW works very well, because their base paints are darker more opaque, and layer paints are lighter, transparent out of the pot, and require less thinning.

Each paint range has its better and worse colors. But except where there are gaps in colors, you pretty much can achieve any effect with any paint range. EVERY paint range needs to be thinned for 98%+ of use cases.

For metallics, GW has by far the best silver (Leadbelcher). Generally, the GW base metallics are good coverage, and the layer metallics are horrible coverage. However, this isn't always a bad thing, because the layer paints are pre-thinned, meaning you don't have to thin them as much -- and thinning metallics of any brand is no fun. Thinning VMC metallic colors to the point where you can evenly apply 3 thin coats for opaque basecoat, plus wash and another 2 or 3 layers for shading without adding significant volume is a challenge.

I have the full metallic range by GW, Army Painter, Vallejo, and Reaper. GW is my go-to metallic, but Vallejo Silver is the brightest, and if I'm applying gold directly without another metallic basecoat, I use VMC Gold. Army Painter has the nicest metallic range, in my opinion. I don't like Reaper metallics at all. And, Vallejo metallic medium is useful.

For blues, greens, browns, and flestones, I primarily use GW. For white, I always use VMC, highly thinned (also, they have a few shades of white, which nobody else has; it's impossible to consistently remix VMC Off-white). For purple/pink and reds, I use Reaper at the dark end, GW in the light end. For yellow, I use Averland Sunset (GW) base, and whatever shade of yellow on top (I'm not big on yellow as a primary model color anyhow).

GW has by far the best washes, in my opinion, plus dropper bottles for washes are horrible. Most of GW's edge paint colors (which are very light) are not really available from anyone else, as well as "technical" paints such as blood from the blood god, nilakh oxide, agrellan earth, the basing compounds and that kind of thing. Vallejo has by far the best mediums, retarders, and "special" stuff. Liquitex is also a company that I couldn't do without, for mediums.

Also, one thing worth mentioning -- dropper bottles are absolutely essential for airbrush. It's not even worth the effort of trying to get paint from a GW pot into an airbrush. However, being the lazy ass that I am, I will 99% of the time use the closest Vallejo Game Air or Model Air color that is the closest, rather than thinning a paint.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 bocatt wrote:
I'm not really a fan of the P3 paints. Can't really describe why. If anyone can tell me, I sure would appreciate it

P3 has a very limited color range. I own the entire P3 line, but the only colors I use consistently are the Menoth White, as a nice alternative to Ushbanti Bone/Screaming Skull. One reason I don't like P3 is because they are only available to match the Warmachines/Hordes schemes -- so, every blue model painted with P3 looks Cyngar, for example. Compare to GW, which has a very rich blue selection, allowing you to go as from almost dark grey, to the color Ultramarines, to Space Wolves. Plus there are some fantastic bright colors like Temple Guard Blue for edge highlights.

sorry Talys, but i have to disagree with you on P3 having a limited range, and always looking like a Warmachine scheme if you paint other models using their range...
there is no shortage of variety of schemes in my gallery, all painted with P3, and the only minis that look like a Warmachine scheme are the Warmachine minis...
it is all about how you choose to use the paints...
i can run through that same exact "dark grey, to the color Ultramarines, to Space Wolves" with the P3 range...

as for all blues looking Cygnar, there are only three main blues that get used in the Cygnar scheme: Cygnar Blue Base, Cygnar Blue Highlight, and Arcane blue...
you are missing out on all the blue-greys, like Greatcoat Grey, Underbelly Blue, and Frostbite...
then there are some turquoise-blues like Meridius Blue and Trollblood Base...
the dark blue, which is one of my favorites, Exile Blue...
not to mention throwing the inks and washes into the mix...
i am painting some Ultramarines right now using Exile Blue, and they look nothing like Cygnar...

once you start mixing custom colors, there is no limit to the range at all...
i enjoy the challenge of painting different Marine Chapters with P3, and having them come out looking like i used GW paints...
here is the latest one i am finishing up, using Sanguine Base, Khador Red Base, and Underbelly Blue for the red...
he sure as hell doesn't look Khador...



it's all about playing with mixes, and taking a different approach to colors, instead of using the standard base-shade-layer-highlight straight out of the books, or the pots...
go look at my Logan Grimnar, or Vulken H'stan, or Kor'sarro Khan, or any other Marines, and the tell me again about how you can't paint outside of Warmachine schemes with P3's...

i'm not trying to be a jerk here, just trying to show that your statement of everything blue painted with P3 will look Cygnar is not true...
there is no limit except what you impose...
i am having a lot of fun recreating Angel's Infinity schemes right now, and he uses Vallejo...
i can match any studio scheme with my P3's, no matter what paint line they use...
if you feel something is limited, it is because you choose to, but that doesn't make it true for everyone...

cheers
jah

 jah-joshua wrote:
sorry Talys, but i have to disagree with you on P3 having a limited range, and always looking like a Warmachine scheme if you paint other models using their range...
there is no shortage of variety of schemes in my gallery, all painted with P3, and the only minis that look like a Warmachine scheme are the Warmachine minis...
it is all about how you choose to use the paints...
i can run through that same exact "dark grey, to the color Ultramarines, to Space Wolves" with the P3 range...

as for all blues looking Cygnar, there are only three main blues that get used in the Cygnar scheme: Cygnar Blue Base, Cygnar Blue Highlight, and Arcane blue...
you are missing out on all the blue-greys, like Greatcoat Grey, Underbelly Blue, and Frostbite...
then there are some turquoise-blues like Meridius Blue and Trollblood Base...
the dark blue, which is one of my favorites, Exile Blue...
not to mention throwing the inks and washes into the mix...
i am painting some Ultramarines right now using Exile Blue, and they look nothing like Cygnar...

once you start mixing custom colors, there is no limit to the range at all...
i enjoy the challenge of painting different Marine Chapters with P3, and having them come out looking like i used GW paints...
here is the latest one i am finishing up, using Sanguine Base, Khador Red Base, and Underbelly Blue for the red...
he sure as hell doesn't look Khador...



it's all about playing with mixes, and taking a different approach to colors, instead of using the standard base-shade-layer-highlight straight out of the books, or the pots...
go look at my Logan Grimnar, or Vulken H'stan, or Kor'sarro Khan, or any other Marines, and the tell me again about how you can't paint outside of Warmachine schemes with P3's...

i'm not trying to be a jerk here, just trying to show that your statement of everything blue painted with P3 will look Cygnar is not true...
there is no limit except what you impose...
i am having a lot of fun recreating Angel's Infinity schemes right now, and he uses Vallejo...
i can match any studio scheme with my P3's, no matter what paint line they use...
if you feel something is limited, it is because you choose to, but that doesn't make it true for everyone...

cheers
jah

Someone is a legit professional. Hehe....Jah you makin us all look like noobs.

PS you're amazingly talented/practiced.

Talys I do have to disagree regarding Vallejo model color metallics, they do actually thin and blend/mix quite well... here was my experience: http://atticwars40k.blogspot.com/2011/10/great-gold-rush-quest-for-best-gold.html?m=1

thanks, Peter...

the thing is, with comparing paints, there is no definitive answer to why we choose the brand we use the most...
it is a very personal choice...
because of that, it is a bit frustrating to discuss...
everyone wants to champion their choices...

i don't care what other people choose to use...
i only care about the results...
Jen Haley gets amazing results with Reaper paints...
Angel does great things with Vallejo...

the new GW line does have some really fun tones in it, i just got tired of the paints drying out so fast, especially since i have paints from them, back when they still used the P3 style pots, that are still perfect after over 20 years...
it bums me out, like planned obsolescence in technology, that they dry out so much faster than they used to...

the best thing about using a smaller paint range now, is that it has encouraged me to mix paints, which has made my painting look a lot more interesting...
no longer using the GW method of out-of-the-book painting has pushed my boundaries a lot...
i used to paint only with stock colors straight from the pot, but came to the realization one day that if i want to compete with the big boys in contests, i was going to have to start mixing to get the subtle (yet somehow still bold) results that attract the judges' eye...
that one single change made me a much better painter...

now i just need more practice...

cheers
jah

@jah -- I certainly won't disagree with you that if you mix paints, P3 is just fine. Personally, I don't do this for primary model colors because I can't replicate it well enough months or years later. I prefer just to write down that I used Alaitoc Blue than 50%x and 50%y. For the same reason I use GW edge paints -- theynare very easy to mix, but I'm unlikely to mix them the same every time.

It's a fact that Vallejo has the most paint colors, and P3 has the least (unless you count army painter, but I don't really consider their offering comparable to the others). I mean, that just is not something that can be disputed. When I want off white or ivory, VMC has it ready out of the bottle, and when you go to the hobby store Vallejo has 3 shelves to GW and Reaper's 1, and P3 has a third of a shelf.

Also, I actually like quick GW drying times. It lets me do quick thin coats with less wait in between, and it still stays wet long enough to wet blend or do freehand writing with a liner brush.

As you say though, it is a very personal choice I own almost every liquid acrylic miniature paint that can be bought, and most of the fine arts ones (like Golden), and even some pigments that I can mix into medium myself. And still, of some new company came out with a range of 500 paints tomorrow, I would buy the whole set and spend a year playing with them

By the way, I achieve unusual paint schemes by layering from different brands -- though that is mostly P3 and reaper models. My 40k, especially marines, are painted to match the fluff.

@Talys: my interpretation of you saying P3's range of limited was not to dispute the fact that it is a range with a small number of paints compared to Vallejo...
you are correct about the number of paints...
i was just pointing out that the range is not limited in the colors and schemes that you can achieve with the paints...
my 40K are also painted to match the fluff...

like i said, i didn't always enjoy mixing paints...
i made the move to mixing so that i could be a more competitive painter...
i think that painting pure colors from the pots only gets you so far in competition, and then you hit a wall...
i guess, if you have seven tones of the same yellow, or wet blend everything, it is possible to do some great work...
for my layering style, it eventually became necessary to start mixing, or buy every paint on the market...

as a guy who travels the world, and works out of an Art Bin the size of a tackle box, my choice was pretty clear...
i would rather mix paints, chasing waves and women in exotic locations, than buy a broader range of colors...

cheers
jah

 jah-joshua wrote:

as a guy who travels the world, and works out of an Art Bin the size of a tackle box, my choice was pretty clear...
i would rather mix paints, chasing waves and women in exotic locations, than buy a broader range of colors...

cheers
jah

Oh, this sounds good. I think we are all jealous!

Since I have a family, and a job that is in one place, my solace is to obsess over improving my hobby area and new paints hahaha. But it's ok, chasing the women in exotic locations is in my past now (maybe I can cc this to my wife and score some brownie points?!)

I have some of the Reaper blue-greys. I got them because they're slightly different to the blue-greys I've gotten from other companies and I like that.

But honestly... these days... I just buy from whatever company has the colour I want. I can mix most of the tones I want from the colours I already have, but when painting an army it's good to have them consistent and I may not finish an army for several years, so I like to use paints that I can buy off the shelf. The differences between the standard acrylics available from Vallejo, GW, P3, Reaper, they're all rather small to me and I can make all of them do what I want.

The only exceptions...

1) If I want a solid coat of paint and I'm brush painting (rather than airbrush) I do like more opaque paints like GW's base range.

2) Tamiya and Gunze alcohol based paints are the only ones I find genuinely behave very differently. They give an awesome finish when airbrushed, but are tricky to use when hairy brush painting. The alcohol base is a strong solvent and will actually soften the paint layers below the one you're working on... this can be both good and bad! Actually they can be tricky to use when airbrushing as well, a slight change in how you paint them can totally change the finish. I was using an old Stuka to test paint schemes, I painted one wing one day to test one scheme and the next day I painted the other wing with the exact same base colour over the exact same undercoat and it looked very different for some reason, I think because I did thicker layers the first day. Was really weird, but the finish was awesome either way.

3) VMA is the only airbrush specific paint I've used, and yeah, it does give the best airbrushed finish of the standard acrylics (minus the alcohol based paints). Reaper gives me the worst finish of the standard acrylics, it seems to splatter the easiest and even when you get rid of the splatter the finish still looks rough. BUT, at the end of the day, I varnish whenever I airbrush anyway, as VMA paint is really quite delicate and needs to be protected... so the difference is kind of irrelevant because after a coat of varnish they all look the same.

So yeah... now I just buy from whatever company offers the colour closest to what I want.

Talys wrote:
I love GW paints, and I even prefer pots over bottles. I like wet palettes, and with dropper bottles, 90% of the time, 1 drop is way too much paint, and overnight, whatever is left diffuses and kills the wet palette.

I mentioned this in the other thread, but just because you use a dropper bottle doesn't mean you HAVE to use a whole drop of paint. Instead of hovering the bottle over the palette and squeezing out a drop, just smear the tip of the bottle over your palette while gently squeezing and you'll be able to control the amount of paint you take out to increments far smaller than 1 drop. You can even squeeze it on to a brush first if you really want.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I mentioned this in the other thread, but just because you use a dropper bottle doesn't mean you HAVE to use a whole drop of paint. Instead of hovering the bottle over the palette and squeezing out a drop, just smear the tip of the bottle over your palette while gently squeezing and you'll be able to control the amount of paint you take out to increments far smaller than 1 drop. You can even squeeze it on to a brush first if you really want.

Yes, you are right, and I do this all the time. I usually shake, squeeze a little, and roll a little paint on the brush, and then put that on the palette. I'll then water it down with some well water. Still, I find this process much more onerous than just being able to swish from the back of a pot. And, for most washes, the dropper format just totally doesn't work for me (I just pull out the plug).

As was mentioned on this thread, another behavior difference is that P3 paints dry slightly slower than Vallejo or GW paints. This is very helpful if you like using the PP hallmark method of 2-brush, 1-paint wet blending (technically, I think it's feathering), where you put down an strip, and then diffuse the edge immediately with water, thus blending it with the (other) color below. You can still do it with GW/VMC paints, but you have to be a bit of a speed demon, or use a drying retarder. And of course a little more dry time helps for real wet-on-wet blending.

If you're into VMA, you should look at their Game Air too -- a lot of places don't stock it but will order it in. There are very nice colors in that range

Yeah I just use a drying retarder regardless of what paint I'm using whenever I'm doing any sort of blending and/or fine detail work.

When I discovered drying retarder it made painting eyes so much easier because I was no longer fighting against time while the tiny drop of paint on the end of my brush dried out

The drying retarder is one of the pots that doesn't need a spot in my painting rack because it's always on my desk

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Yeah I just use a drying retarder regardless of what paint I'm using whenever I'm doing any sort of blending and/or fine detail work.

When I discovered drying retarder it made painting eyes so much easier because I was no longer fighting against time while the tiny drop of paint on the end of my brush dried out

The drying retarder is one of the pots that doesn't need a spot in my painting rack because it's always on my desk

This thread is very informative.

I'm sure some people get by fine without drying retarder and I'm by no means a pro painter, I bought it a while back to use for blending but then when I was painting my Orc Warboss I found it was much easier while painting fine detail to control the paint consistently from one stroke to the next if it wasn't drying on my brush all the time Now whenever I'm painting faces or doing some fine lining I keep a dab of retarder on my palette to mix in with the paint, I really notice how much smoother it goes on.

while i don't use a drying retarder in my paints, one thing that i developed a habit of is dipping my brush in a drop of water on my pallette after dipping my brush in the paint...

it might sound strange, since everyone says to work with a paint the consistency of milk, or whatever, but i actually don't thin my paints in the normal sense...
unless the color is a mix, i paint straight from the pot...
when using a bigger brush, i just make sure the bristles are damp...
for the smaller brushes, i do have to dip the tip with paint on it in a little water drop, and then glide the tip across my thumb to mix the paint and water, before hitting the mini with it...
i only use that bit of paint for two, three, or four brush strokes, before rinsing the brush, getting a new dot of paint on the tip, and then touching it to the drop of water again...
it is a strange habit, but it works for me...

i definitely wouldn't recommend anyone to learn how to paint using all of my bad habits, as i pretty much work in the opposite way that the video's and classes say to use acrylics...
painting straight from the pot...
not using a wet palette...
not thinning the paints properly...
no retarders or mediums...
no airbrush...
not really using any kind of blending on the model, but still sticking with layering, lining, and edge highlighting instead...
painting everything in separate pieces and then assembling when it's finished, and the list goes on...
pretty much the whole roll-call of what is not recommended...

it does go to show that there really is no wrong way to paint, or wrong paints to use, as long as the results look good...

cheers
jah

After reading how you paint, I can understand why you prefer P3 paints. I know a couple of guys who paint similar to that and they like P3 paints too.

I think painting the way you paint and the results you produce are evidence that you do have a lot of artistic talent that I utterly lack

I don't necessarily think mediums and retarders are necessary for painting 28mm miniatures, they just make it easier to achieve certain effects and some effects you can't achieve at all without them. For me, it blew my mind how much easier it was to paint fine detail when I started using drying retarder. Not that I couldn't before, but before I felt like I was performing delicate surgery and often the result wasn't nearly as smooth as it could have been.

 jah-joshua wrote:

what little Vallejo Air Metal i use is the Gold, and the Aluminium...
at first i didn't like the gold, as it is very bright, and very green...
i adapted to using it in order to take advantage of the brilliance, and get rid of the green, by mixing it with P3 Rhulic Gold or P3 Solid Gold, and then washing over it with a mix of P3 Flesh Wash (a maroon color) and P3 Sanguine Base (a burgandy color)...
obviously, i like my golds more red than the standard VAM green tone...

Did you do this with the dropper? As in, add the P3 et al paints to the VMA gold dropper to tint the whole lot? I've got two of the VMA, and I usually mix on the palette to get a more reddish tone - though I find that the VMA pigment is so strong it usually takes quite a lot of the other colour to change the tone.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
On paints: My Coat D'Arms black is running out, so instead of opening a new pot, I started using a Vallejo Game Colour black - hideously shiny compared to the satin finish of CDA (aka the original Citadel paints). I'm now using an Army Painter dropper bottle black that I got via a Mantic KS, and it's pretty much the same as the CDA.

That's the thing. Through years and painting, I've found that the best selection is made of whatever you prefer to use. I use a hell of a lot of Vallejo Model Air, V Game Colour and CDA - but also old (original) Citadel, new Citadel, Reaper, Army Painter, V Model Colour - whatever fits the current needs of whatever I happen to be painting. That's what works for me, so while I do have my preferred paints and tones from various ranges, I'm pretty much paint-agnostic when it comes down to it.

@AllSeeingSkink: i feel like fine detail painting is like delicate surgery, too...
that's the funnest part for me, though...
every new mini i paint, i see my lines get a little bit crisper, and i get closer to perfecting the style i'm after...

the biggest thing about my approach to painting, is i always paint with the idea of competition in mind...
i am striving to get to the level where i can bring home the Crystal Brush Best of Show in the next few years, or the P3 Masters at Gen Con...
so, it's not really a hobby, it's more like training for the Olympics...
with that in mind, i definitely paint for the camera and the close look of the judges' eye now, which requires that everything be super-tight, and really helps to improve my work...

surfing is my hobby, but i still surf each wave like i'm in the last final of the year, poised to win the World Championship...
i dissect every move and mistake, and work to get every trick to look smooth and stylish, while going really fast and doing difficult maneuvers...
i guess that's just the way i do everything...

@AzazelX: i mix the golds on the palette...
i do still use the VMA pure on a layer ot two of my golds, so i don't want to change the color permanently...
you are right, though, i do have to be careful to only squeeze out a little drop to start when mixing the VMA Gold with anything...
it is a powerful color, that will dominate the other paint really easily...

cheers
jah