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2014/10/19 14:24:08
Subject: Grey Knights at an Adepticon Championship Primer tournament [1850 pts]
This weekend I took my Grey Knights to an 1850 Adepticon Championship tournament, and I wanted to share the results with the dakkanauts. How do you think the Knights of Titan can hold up to the likes of Serpent Spam and the Adamantium Lance and Tau Missile Spam of Doom? Here's the list I brought:
Inquisitorial Detachment
1- Ordo Malleus Inquisitor: lvl 1 psyker, terminator armor, psycannon, Demon Hammer, Liber Heresius, 3 servo skulls
1- Ordo Malleus Inquisitor: lvl 1 psyker, terminator armor, psycannon, Demon Hammer, Tome of Vethric
The idea is to have Libbys roll Sanctic, and depending on my opponent, the inquisitors roll either telepathy or divination. One Libby and one Inquisitor per terminator squad, essentially giving me 4 tough to kill units on the board.
Game 1
Spoiler:
My opponent was Jeremy, a very nice guy who missed the announcement before the tourney that the new DE codex was not allowed, and had to make a last-minute list with what he had on hand. He had planned on playing Eldar with DE allies, dropping in Wratihguard with a WWP. He was game though, and put together a tough to kill Eldar with Eldar allies list:
Deployment. He attaches the jetseer and spiritseers to the Wraithguard, and has Baharroth tank at the front. He reserves everything else. With his D-Cannons, I decide deepstriking in front of him would be mental, so I start my Libby with Gate on the board away from him, and use the Liber Heresius to scout forward toward the Dilapidated Bastion at centerfield. The other Inquisitor with Invisibility is in reserve, along with my other unit of termies and libby.
His turn 1, he throws almost all his dice at Invisibility, perils in the process. He does this repeatedly, hoping for good results on the perils table, because he knows I have a ton of psychic dice to deny.
My turn 1, I move my termies into the Bastion, and jump my dreadknights so they're just outside of range of his D-Cannons. I intentionally do not roll my reserves turn 1 due to his unit being invisible under the void shield. My shooting is pretty ineffective thanks to invisibility, so i maybe kill 1 wraithguard.
His turn 2. I believe his warlord trait allowed re-rolls to reserves. he used that to get 1 unit of spiders in, and his swooping hawks, and to keep his guardians off. He perils casting invisibility, loses Sanctuary to the warp. To add insult to injury, I throw all my dice at denying invisibility, and succeed in shutting it down. His spiders shoot the building, wrecking it, and forcing me to disembark. However, I'm able to MOSTLY cower behind the building out of LOS of those nasty D-cannons.
He could see a few Termies, and promptly evaporates them.
This is exactly what my opponent would want to avoid. I got Hammerhand off, and got up in his deathstar's face. My shooting was pretty ineffective, maybe only killing 1-2 Wraithguard thanks to Baharroth tanking for them. I also failed my reserve roll for my other termie unit.
I manage to assault with the termies and 1 Dreadknight. I tried to get both Knights in, but failed my charge range (would have needed a 10 or 11, something like that). My Inquisitor challenges, Baharroth accepts. I begin to murder Wraithguard, but thanks to Baharroth they are fearless. They hit and run thanks to Baharroth's high Initiative, but all but 1 Wraithguard are dead, so they are pretty neutered.
His turn 3, all but 1 unit of Guardians come in. He decides to start trying to grab objective points, and really wants to nuke my Dreadknight out in the open.
His Fragons, Guardians, and 1 unit of spiders shoot at my Dreadknight. Unfortunately Sanctuary is a great power, and he survives their shooting with 1 wound. The warp spiders, out of desperation, assault him and are swept.
The Wraithguard splits off and takes an objective. The spiritseers, jetseer, and Baharroth stay together and shoot my termies, maybe killing some. I shut down Invisibility AGAIN. He decides to charge in again, and I get a ton of lucky hits with my Psycannons on overwatch, and kill 3 SPIRITSEERS. Ridiculous.
He is promptly owned in close combat. My Inquisitor again challenges and this time finishes off Baharroth, the rest of the unit has no problems killing the unfortunate spiritseers/jetseer.
My turn 3, Termies drop in on an objective. That unit tries to get fancy with psychic powers, perils, and take 3 S6 AP1 hits to the unit, and kill 3 termies.
The 2nd termie squad kill some of the other spider unit. The Dreadknight shoots and kills the fire dragons, consolidates back onto an objective. The other dreadknight kills the lone Wraithguard.
His guardians kill my Dreadknight, and his remaining spiders shoot my termies.
My opponent concedes at this point, but due to the battle point system for the tourney, he agrees to continue to finish the game out. This is what I hate about battle points; you have to keep kicking someone when they're down to max your points; it feels gakky. The game ends with a crushing victory for the Grey Knights in round one.
Game 2
Spoiler:
Another very nice guy to play against in round 2, who brought a beatstick Eldar army. This was the list that I came to this tournament needing to see if my Knights could take out, since this type of list is so incredibly deadly and fast it will be all over the place at Adepticon.
Mantleseer
5- Fragons in Scatterlaser serpent w/ chin cannon
3x 5- Dire Avengers in Scatterlaser serpent w/ chin cannon
2x 3- Jetbikes
6- swooping hawks
2- Wraithknights
3- Shadow Weavers
Xenos Inquisitor in power armor w/ servo-skulls
My powers and warlord trait
Deployment/ start of turn 1. He won the roll to choose, deployed first, and gave me first turn. His warlord trait gave me -1 to my reserve rolls, mine was to re-roll my reserves. I drop all but 1 termie squad in his face (failed reserve roll) turn 1 after null-deploying. I would have rather a DK stayed off and the other Termie squad come in. My hope was that with split fire and ignore cover on both termie units I could take out 2 wave serpents and force one or two more to jink. As it was with this, I still hoped to kill a few units with a decent Alpha strike.
I believe the Liber Heresius failed, so no split fire. However, I took out one wave serpent with the Termies. First blood to me! The Avengers inside were not pinned. The letdown was that first I had shot BOTH Dreadknights into one jetbike squad, and they only killed one biker. The bikes then passed morale. I may have cast Sanctuary on both Dreadknights, but I believe at least one got it. Also, the Termies most likely.
The Eldar retaliation is brutal. Everything scoots up, all passengers disembark, battlefocus into range, and unload into my Dreadknights, dropping both down to 1 wound each. He positions his Wraiths so they can charge and finish the wounded Dreadknights. One of his Wraiths is prescienced, and they have no problems killing my Dreads before they get a chance to swing back. One squad of Dire Avengers and the Shadow Weavers shoot my Termies, and kill HALF THE SQUAD. At this point I contemplate suicide briefly, as his army has destroyed half of mine in one round. Yikes.
The remnants after the smoke clears.
My next turn, my other squad comes in. The shattered Termie unit is pissed, and want revenge. I activate force, Hammerhand, Sanctuary, and charge and kill the closest WraithKnight with little problem.
Unfortunately, they are left sitting in front of all of this.
This is actually a pic from his next turn, but I forgot to show where my other Termies had gone. I dropped them near an objective, and was hoping to take out a Wave Serpent with 12 Psycannon shots that ignore cover. I hit with something like 9-10 shots (above average), and get 1 Pen. One. Crew Stunned. Yuck again.
His next turn he tightens the noose, battle focusing his infantry even closer to my Warlord's unit, and pounding them with fire. This time they were much more resilient, and the Inquisitor and Librarian survived the pounding, only to be assaulted by the Wraithknight and killed before swinging. Slay the Warlord to my opponent!
OK, so things got pretty grimdark for me. However, a little beacon of light sprung up. I drew two objectives this next turn that favored me a bit to make this less of a blowout: I needed to assault a unit, and to get Objective 5. Directly behind those three little jetbikes is objective 5. The bikes are about 5" away from my Termies. I split fire, shooting one stormbolter at the bikes and everything else at the Wave Serpent that I failed to kill last round.
The Wave Serpent is destroyed this time. However, in a horrific turn of events, he hits me with 3 rending shots from his jetbikes, and I FAIL ALL 3 INVULNERABLES! I then fail my charge range, which was at that point about 10", and am left in no-man's land.
His following turn, everything pivots on the spot toward the Knights, and the pounding begins.
He is able to battlefocus his Avengers into range, as well as the shadow weavers, and the Serpents, and WraithKnight, and they annihilate the Grey Knights. Tabled in 4 turns, netting me zero points and giving my opponent max points. He would go on to play for first place at top table, losing a hard-fought game to an Adamantium Lance backed up by what looked like 100+ conscripts. The next game is for pride, and to continue testing the limits of the Grey Knights!
Game 3
Spoiler:
Final round! This one is against Tyler, who was yet another fun guy to play against. He brought a crazy but effective list from four different sources. here's what I faced:
Autarch
5- Dire Avengers, Scatter laser Wave Serpent
5- Dire Avengers, Scatter laser Wave Serpent
6- Warp Spiders
1- Wraithknight
Here's my powers/ Warlord Trait
Here is deployment. The map was Vanguard Strike. The mission was unique to me, in which you can only draw Tactical Objectives at the start of your turn for each Objective you control. I try to place objectives in the open, as close as possible, so they are easily accessible to my slower troops, and also to force my opponent's weaker troops into the open to claim the objectives. Also due to Adepticon's stance on Infiltrate, which is they allow an IC to give it to a squad he joins, I am able to Infiltrate my entire army. My opponent has first turn, and I fail to seize. It is night fight.
Here is a closer look at his deployment. There is a tactical squad to the right of the Knight Errant behind the forest. He is deepstriking his spiders.
He goes for some cinematic "bro time" with his Knight and Wraightknight here, as they go back-to-back. He drops his melta blast on my terminators in the forest, killing 1-2. He may have shot his Wraithknight at my Dreadknight, putting a wound on him. He keeps his Wave Serpents hiding in the corner, afraid of my shunting Dreadknights and Psycannon-wielding Termies. I don't think he realized just how scary the Large Blast Melta Cannon was to my all-Terminator army, and just how badly I had to have it go away.
The Dreadknights ue their shunt moves to put one on side armor, the other behind the Knight Errant. Meanwhile the Termies walk straight forward, having to punch through AV13. My other Terminator unit hang tight near the triangle of three objectives, trying to start building up Tactical objectives.
The shooting from the Grey Knights is very effective, and the Knight Errant is destroyed. His blast doesn't scatter, and both one of my Dreadknights and the Wraithknight are wounded by a S8 AP3 hit. I make my armor save. First blood for the Grey Knights, and a MAJOR threat has been removed!
Here is the second Termie unit. I was a bit timid with them, but that Melta Cannon was scary!
Through the necessity of having to put my Dreadknights in a bad spot to get rid of the Knight Errant, I pay the price. His Stormtalon and Spiders come in, and the retribution is terrible. I forgot to mention before, but I believe all but one Psychic power he attempted to manifest all game was shut down. My Psychic Pool just blew him away. His Lascannons and D-Cannons were too much for my Dreadknights, and to compound the problem my dice have gone cold. I failed a TON of armor saves for my Termies, and the squad is effectively neutered, down to 2 Terminators, who make their morale check. I can't remember how one of my Dreadknights died, but I know the Tactical Squad charged him and were annihilated. An absolutely devastating turn for the.....Coalition?
My termies move up closer to centerfield, still controlling two Objectives and cutting my opponent off from getting a third one that is behind the Termies. I draw Skyfire Nexus on one Objective, and shoot his Stormtalon out of the sky.
I charge into his Spiders, but my poor rolling I believe left one of them alive. I believe he hit-and-ran away.
Now he can afford to be bold with his Wave Serpents, and hops out and unloads into the Termies as they march toward the enemy.
A pic from the turret of the second Wave Serpent.
However, he makes the mistake of charging his Wraithknight into my Terminators. These guys, even whittled down like they are, eat Wraithknights for breakfast in close combat. I consolidate forward.
Unfortunately the consolidation and my movement forward in my turn isn't enough to get me close enough to charge the Space Marines, and the unit is so whittled down that their shooting is no longer terribly effective. At this point, it's the end of turn 5, and if it ends here, I believe I would have lost 9-8, a very close and hard-fought game. Unfortunatley for me, the game goes on. I again fail saves like crazy, and in the end I had only my Librarian alive with both wounds remaining. I had three ARMOR saves to make....2, 1, 1. Game over, tabled in 6. Crazy game against a crazy list, but on the upside, the losers got an Adepticon Pint glass....I put it to good use.
The Knights of Titan go 1-2. I'd like to hear your thoughts on the list, and tactics in general. Can I make the Grey Knights tournament-worthy??
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2014/10/23 05:27:38
2014/10/19 15:10:44
Subject: Grey Knights at an Adepticon Championship Primer tournament [1850 pts]
I was your first round opponent. In retrospect it would have been a better move to simply block the door to the dilapidated bastion with the spiders instead of blowing up. That way you couldn't even use repel the enemy (if I'm understanding the rule right) and charge the unit.
Thanks for the game!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/19 18:25:32
2014/10/19 19:31:52
Subject: Re:Grey Knights at an Adepticon Championship Primer tournament [1850 pts]
Hey hey hey... As the tau player I can say I didn't have that many missiles, more fusions and burst cannons. And only two broadsides.
In all actually it was my burst cannon toting suits that did very well for me.
Didn't get a chance to see how you did on your other games so can't wait for the reports.
2014/10/19 19:50:05
Subject: Grey Knights at an Adepticon Championship Primer tournament [1850 pts]
I was your first round opponent. In retrospect it would have been a better move to simply block the door to the dilapidated bastion with the spiders instead of blowing up. That way you couldn't even use repel the enemy (if I'm understanding the rule right) and charge the unit.
Thanks for the game!
You're probably right about blocking the door. I wouldn't have thought to do that either. Typically, Grey Knights have no uses for such paltry things as buildings! And thank you!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
mouser wrote: Hey hey hey... As the tau player I can say I didn't have that many missiles, more fusions and burst cannons. And only two broadsides.
In all actually it was my burst cannon toting suits that did very well for me.
Didn't get a chance to see how you did on your other games so can't wait for the reports.
The burst cannon is a fantastic gun. And so is the fusion gun. And Plasma rifle. And oh hell, what guns DON'T the Tau have that are awesome!? Just kidding, and congrats on second place! Well played sir!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/19 19:51:55
2014/10/19 19:52:45
Subject: Re:Grey Knights at an Adepticon Championship Primer tournament [1850 pts]
Ashwaster wrote: How does your Inquisitor get telepathy? A special grey knights thing? Is there an FAQ?
Cheers
If I remember correctly, they can roll on all but Biomancy.
Edit: I just checked my Codex and you're right! Fail on my part! For shame!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Game 2 is up!
As per the most recent update, codex Inquisition does get all but Telepathy and summoning.
So do you think it was Karma that the only Telepathy power I tried to use was Psychic Shriek, and that I perils'ed casting it and then missed my to-hit roll?
2014/10/19 21:40:58
Subject: Grey Knights at an Adepticon Championship Primer tournament [1850 pts]
Ashwaster wrote: How does your Inquisitor get telepathy? A special grey knights thing? Is there an FAQ?
Cheers
If I remember correctly, they can roll on all but Biomancy.
Edit: I just checked my Codex and you're right! Fail on my part! For shame!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Game 2 is up!
As per the most recent update, codex Inquisition does get all but Telepathy and summoning.
So do you think it was Karma that the only Telepathy power I tried to use was Psychic Shriek, and that I perils'ed casting it and then missed my to-hit roll?
Sorry, I meant they do get Telepathy, the only thing they don't get is Biomancy and Summoning.
Also on game two why didn't you combat squad your terminators? It would have been more units to shoot and more chances to cause a wave serpent to jink.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/19 21:47:03
2014/10/19 22:29:13
Subject: Grey Knights at an Adepticon Championship Primer tournament [1850 pts]
Ashwaster wrote: How does your Inquisitor get telepathy? A special grey knights thing? Is there an FAQ?
Cheers
If I remember correctly, they can roll on all but Biomancy.
Edit: I just checked my Codex and you're right! Fail on my part! For shame!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Game 2 is up!
As per the most recent update, codex Inquisition does get all but Telepathy and summoning.
So do you think it was Karma that the only Telepathy power I tried to use was Psychic Shriek, and that I perils'ed casting it and then missed my to-hit roll?
Sorry, I meant they do get Telepathy, the only thing they don't get is Biomancy and Summoning.
Also on game two why didn't you combat squad your terminators? It would have been more units to shoot and more chances to cause a wave serpent to jink.
So weird, the last one I have printed out shows they don't get Telepathy. These digital things are killing me.
As to the combat squads, my Inquisitors gave each unit Split-Fire using the Liber Heresius and Tome of Vethric. It would have made for more targets though. I'm still unsure if my tactics were unsound or if the GK can't stand up to the Eldar's tournament lists, although I'm now pretty certain I should have shot my Dreadknights at Wave Serpents turn 1 instead of the bikes.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/19 22:35:01
2014/10/19 22:47:14
Subject: Grey Knights at an Adepticon Championship Primer tournament [1850 pts]
mouser wrote: Hey hey hey... As the tau player I can say I didn't have that many missiles, more fusions and burst cannons. And only two broadsides.
In all actually it was my burst cannon toting suits that did very well for me.
Didn't get a chance to see how you did on your other games so can't wait for the reports.
The burst cannon is a fantastic gun. And so is the fusion gun. And Plasma rifle. And oh hell, what guns DON'T the Tau have that are awesome!? Just kidding, and congrats on second place! Well played sir!
Didn't actually have any plasma... But yeah can't really complain about their guns.
I think you're right about your turn two opponents list, I'd expect to see a lot of that going forward... When you're done I'd be interested in what you think of the armies brought
2014/10/19 23:42:46
Subject: Grey Knights at an Adepticon Championship Primer tournament [1850 pts]
Gin the best way to deal with wave serpents is CC. I have learned that you have to get up close and punch them in the face. Dreadknights can do this with ease, shunt next to one and the next turn each hit is an auto pen, the same can be said with terminators deep strike close to one take advantage of the shoot and run ability we have to make a huge foot print to set up the charge and next turn hammerhead and punch them in the mouth with str 10 and str 7 nemesis weapons, but than again I am Kenpachi and I think punching things in the mouth is the only true way of doing things!
I think you're right about your turn two opponents list, I'd expect to see a lot of that going forward... When you're done I'd be interested in what you think of the armies brought
Yeah we can definitely chat up the armies later, I'm always down for talks of strategery.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CKO wrote: Gin the best way to deal with wave serpents is CC. I have learned that you have to get up close and punch them in the face. Dreadknights can do this with ease, shunt next to one and the next turn each hit is an auto pen, the same can be said with terminators deep strike close to one take advantage of the shoot and run ability we have to make a huge foot print to set up the charge and next turn hammerhead and punch them in the mouth with str 10 and str 7 nemesis weapons, but than again I am Kenpachi and I think punching things in the mouth is the only true way of doing things!
Agreed, 100%. However, the trick is surviving to get to the assault.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Quickjager wrote: Ooof that second game man, no one deserves to go up 'gainst Mechdar. That speed is just abusive.
Kinda want to see the winning army now...
The winning army was (I believe) the Adamantium Lance with 3 battle-cannon Knights, allied with Imperial Guard. His guard allies were something like 100 or more Conscripts with Priests to make them fearless.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/10/20 01:25:58
2014/10/20 01:35:05
Subject: Re:Grey Knights at an Adepticon Championship Primer tournament [1850 pts]
Believe he was running a blob squad and conscripts, don't believe it was 100, more like 50... As I'm fairly confident he doesn't have that many. But otherwise you've got it. And yeah mechdar is mean, but can be dropped fairly easily as well it's about target priority and playing to the mission. I know that the first guy I played, who brought Draigo, a lvl 3 GK Libby, Coteaz, a second psyker inq, Tigerius, and a full up squad of cents was suprised when he lost, it's not about the army list, its about application.
2014/10/20 02:02:46
Subject: Grey Knights at an Adepticon Championship Primer tournament [1850 pts]
Great game versus Mechdar - it's probably currently the top army. I think overall you played it right gong aggro . That was really bad luck versus the jetbikes - kind of lame shurikens rend IMO . Well played !!
Homeskillet wrote: The Knights of Titan go 1-2. I'd like to hear your thoughts on the list, and tactics in general. Can I make the Grey Knights tournament-worthy??
I think your list suffers from having too low of a model count. Once your start to roll some ones your in trouble. Have you thought about dropping one of the terminator squads and taking some henchman from codex inquisition?
2014/10/24 00:26:40
Subject: Grey Knights at an Adepticon Championship Primer tournament [1850 pts]
I think your list suffers from having too low of a model count. Once your start to roll some ones your in trouble. Have you thought about dropping one of the terminator squads and taking some henchman from codex inquisition?
I certainly did after the tournament! In all seriousness though, I wonder if it had less to do with the list and more with my tactics. Not trying to shoot multiple wave serpents in game two, and setting my Dreadknights up to be bladestorm'ed to death were major mistakes in my opinion. In game three I placed too much emphasis on objectives and kept literally half my army on the other side of the board, not contributing to firepower. You definitely hit the nail on the head as to rolling one's; one bad streak and it's bye bye hundreds of points.
2014/10/24 02:52:36
Subject: Grey Knights at an Adepticon Championship Primer tournament [1850 pts]
I think your list suffers from having too low of a model count. Once your start to roll some ones your in trouble. Have you thought about dropping one of the terminator squads and taking some henchman from codex inquisition?
I certainly did after the tournament! In all seriousness though, I wonder if it had less to do with the list and more with my tactics. Not trying to shoot multiple wave serpents in game two, and setting my Dreadknights up to be bladestorm'ed to death were major mistakes in my opinion. In game three I placed too much emphasis on objectives and kept literally half my army on the other side of the board, not contributing to firepower. You definitely hit the nail on the head as to rolling one's; one bad streak and it's bye bye hundreds of points.
I tend to agree its not the list. With an army that small, you have to keep everything concentrated and focus on making about 2/3 of your opponents army fight your entire army. I think you also overestimated the effect the knight's AP1 cannon would have on your army. Stay dispersed and advance slowly up the board. A good shot might catch 3 or 4 models in the blast, killing maybe 2 a turn. Bide your time for the right moment to take it down on your terms.
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