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Hello all. After a long hiatus I want to get back into WH/40K but somewhere in the last 3 years I've lost my entire paint box. Now I am faced with starting fresh (at least I won't have any crusty paints). So rather then immediately line GW's coffers, I am curious if people have suggestions for maybe branching into the others. I've read a bunch old posts on this subject, but most seemed to be outdated and the advice was so contradictory I figured I might as well ask for a current opinion.

In case colour selection strengths differ between the companies, I have undead, IG, Ork, and Chaos Daemons armies all in various states of completion. I was a somewhat veteran painter (time not skill) so inks/washes/highlighting potential are important to me. Also colour and spreading consistency with the GW line are paramount as I've been spoiled and I want to try to keep the colour consistent across the armies.

Vallejo paints and GW washes.

Vallejo paints and Army Painter washes (the dropper bottles, not the dipping tins, though they have the same names). Only use Citadel washes if for some reason you hate your models. I remember the glory days of Badab Black etc, but when I first used Nuln Oil (thinking it was just a renamed pot) I had to strip everything and start again.

No real reason to stick rigidly to a single range though, I doubt many people do these days.

Steelmage99 wrote:
Vallejo paints and GW washes.

I'll second this, and add that the GW Technical Paints for blood, rust and oil are worth having.

Same as always: cheap craft paints with the odd 'miniature company' wash and metallics.

I'd go for army painter, cause they are really close to old GW paints, wich I'm used to.
I hate the current GW range (how on earth did they create a black that doesn't cover anything ? o_O), so I replace my depleted pots with Army Painter ones.

 Riquende wrote:
Vallejo paints and Army Painter washes (the dropper bottles, not the dipping tins, though they have the same names). Only use Citadel washes if for some reason you hate your models. I remember the glory days of Badab Black etc, but when I first used Nuln Oil (thinking it was just a renamed pot) I had to strip everything and start again.

No real reason to stick rigidly to a single range though, I doubt many people do these days.

You know I still have a full pot of badab black from when I stopped painting

Coat d'arms
Formula P3
Vallejo

Although I'll agree that the new Citadel technical paints look interesting and I wouldn't mind trying them out.

Reaper, probably. I love how matte their finish is and how easily the paint flows without additives.

I like Vallejo Model Colour for similar reasons, but a lot of their colours seem to be stand alones or very, very similar whereas Reaper have more of a clearly defined system, which helps a lot when making colour choices.

 Great White wrote:


You know I still have a full pot of badab black from when I stopped painting

Heh. Yeah, I picked up as much as I could at the time and still have most of it, as the Army Painter Dark and Strong tones are a near-perfect match for Badab and Devlan so I just use those (should probably look at selling on ebay, I'm sure I've seen pots of Devlan Mud at £20!). Recently I managed to score 3 pots of Ogryn Flesh which for me is the important one as it's brilliant and I've yet to find a quality replacement. Luckily I don't paint too many things with lots of exposed flesh so they should last a long while!

 Riquende wrote:

 Great White wrote:


You know I still have a full pot of badab black from when I stopped painting

Heh. Yeah, I picked up as much as I could at the time and still have most of it, as the Army Painter Dark and Strong tones are a near-perfect match for Badab and Devlan so I just use those (should probably look at selling on ebay, I'm sure I've seen pots of Devlan Mud at £20!). Recently I managed to score 3 pots of Ogryn Flesh which for me is the important one as it's brilliant and I've yet to find a quality replacement. Luckily I don't paint too many things with lots of exposed flesh so they should last a long while!

Yeah I'm looking at opening a swap shop thread for it. But I don't want any money, I just want to trade it for a model oor something

Firstly thanks for the replies. Okay brand loyalty is out, the difficulty is finding comparable colours to the one's I'm used to. One thing I have never gotten in the habit is varnishing my models. In the past I preferred to keep the dull finish and just touch-up any rub off, I'm curious if there is a better alternative I haven't came across to keep the dull semi-realistic colour instead of the slightly shiny or wet look.

 Minus wrote:
I'd go for army painter, cause they are really close to old GW paints, wich I'm used to.
I hate the current GW range (how on earth did they create a black that doesn't cover anything ? o_O), so I replace my depleted pots with Army Painter ones.

Army painter intrigues me as I've seen some small deals (price is better then comparable paints from GW) on ebay for starter packs.

What little I've used of the Army Painter line (one paint and one ink) has been good, as have pretty much all of the reviews I've seen. I'd recommend varnishing models for two reasons, actually: First, the obvious protection, but a second and oft overlooked benefit is an even finish. When you start mixing brands, introducing inks, etc. you don't always end up with the even, satin finish of most hobby paints across the entire model. Applying a unifying layer of a clear coat over the top fixes that. I recommend Testors Dullcote if you want an aerosol (I've yet to explore airbrushed options deeply, although I intend to).

To the original question: Just about all of the hobby acrylic lines are comparable, in terms of quality. Individual paints, especially, but sometimes brands as a whole also tend to have their individual quirks that can lead to personal preferences. Still, any will likely serve your purposes just fine.

I'd steer clear of relying too heavily on GW for two reasons: First, value - they have, by far, the highest cost per volume of paint (highest list price and the smallest containers). Second, consistency - they keep changing their names, manufacturer, etc. meaning old paints (if they even survive long-term storage) can't be matched a few years down the road. I use and like a number of their paints (all from the previous line), but can't really recommend them for building an entire collection.

Vallejo's Game Color line is a reasonably good match for the old GW paint line, so the slightly tweaked names and colors should seem most familiar, given your frame of reference. They're also designed for gaming, so if you choose not to varnish (I'd still recommend that you do, but it's your call), they'll be more resilient than many other lines. Their washes don't work the same as GW/AP washes, right out of the pot/bottle, but definitely have their uses. I might still go with one of the aforementioned brands for those, if you don't want to tweak every mix to the task.

In the end, I recommend building up a collection of paints from various brands, but VGC would be my recommendation for paints, if you prefer to stick to one line. Army Painter is a better bet for washes and has a good, if not quite as expansive, catalog of paints that would also serve.

 oadie wrote:
...Vallejo's Game Color line is a reasonably good match for the old GW paint line, so the slightly tweaked names and colors should seem most familiar, given your frame of reference. They're also designed for gaming, so if you choose not to varnish (I'd still recommend that you do, but it's your call), they'll be more resilient than many other lines. Their washes don't work the same as GW/AP washes, right out of the pot/bottle, but definitely have their uses. I might still go with one of the aforementioned brands for those, if you don't want to tweak every mix to the task.

In the end, I recommend building up a collection of paints from various brands, but VGC would be my recommendation for paints, if you prefer to stick to one line. Army Painter is a better bet for washes and has a good, if not quite as expansive, catalog of paints that would also serve.

Thank you so much. After sifting through all the replies, your last paragraph encapsulates exactly what I was thinking. Glad I had someone walk through the logic who atleast used the products, where my guess being brand new to the companies was not even an educated guess.

Edit: How many grammar errors can I make in 2 sentences?

Vallejo hands down. It's more accessible to me, anyway. I really like a lot of the subtle differences in the model color line. Model air also has nice metallics that go flat.

Vallejo washes and inks are also good. Haven't tried comparing them to, say, GW washes because I never had them at the same time but they do their job. It won't hurt to have pots of Gryphonne Sepia, Badab Black and Devlan Mud, though.

I have the complete VGC line, and it's pretty good. There are many color gaps though.

I think the two most important factors are paint colors (does the range have all the colors you want?), and paint behavior.

Every range has its own nuances, and no paint brand is absolutely better in every way, in every color. If you want the best of all worlds, there's really no way around it; you have to pick a few from one brand, and a few from another.

As a simple example, love or hate them, Citadel's Mephiston Red and Leadbelcher are far, far superior to any red and medium silver that Vallejo makes (actually, I absolutely hate Vallejo reds, except their airbrush primer, which doesn't really count because it's not a water based acrylic). On the other hand, Vallejo white is much nicer than white scar or ceramite white.

Also, some paint ranges behave different than others. For example, in the order of drying quickness, GW is the quickest dry, then Game Color, then Model color, then P3. This may seem minor, but it's *huge* if you're doing a task like feathering all of the edge highlights or gemstones for a squad, because the time you'll save by having a premixed paint that dries slower is unreal (yes, you can use drying retarder, but then that's one more thing to do, and likely, you're not going to mix in retarder as consistently as the stuff straight out of the bottle).

On the other hand, if you're tossing down layers, GW layer paints are out of the bottle thinner, dry quicker, and stay truer to the tint than a paint like Model Color that's been diluted in medium (or water). This means that if my edge treatment is a 3 or 4 layer process, as soon as I clean off my brush from putting on rakkarth flesh, I can layer pallid wych flesh.

Also, while I really like the range of colors in Vallejo metallics, I hate the consistency. They are very thick, separate like crazy in the bottles, and come out goopy. I use GW Balthazar Gold (which is very dark, pretty much a bronze) and Leadbelcher, but then I'm now painting all my bright metallics now with Tamiya (alcohol acrylics), as they seem to be amazingly thin and consistent.

I guess, I'm just saying, we all have our favorite main brand, but brand loyalty isn't really well-rewarded.

By the way, I'll second oadie's comment on varnish -- almost every brand, different paints within the brand, and paints thinned with different mediums will dry looking different, so varnish gives the entire model the same finish.

The Vallejo washes, in my experience, behave more or less like a very thick wash but are pigmented like a semi-opaque acrylic ink. Their Flesh Wash, for example, feels almost like VMC Hull Red thinned with water and flow improver. It'll pool more heavily in recesses, but there's also pretty heavy surface staining. The pigment, while definitely much sparser than in the paint, still feels rather heavy and opaque, compared to a GW wash. The fact that they settle much more noticeably is somewhat telling.

I still like them, partly because of that heaviness, which adds flexibility - you can always lower opacity by thinning, but you can't exactly dial it up (except by adding more layers). The thickest applications dry like thinned paint, which can be useful - Flesh Wash makes for decent rust streaks. If applied thinly (in terms of layer thickness, not dilution) enough to avoid pooling, they make for rather intense glazes, which still have an edge in transparency and evenness over highly dilute paint. Dilute slightly with Pledge FloorCare and you have a runny, but still rather highly pigmented, color for pin washes, without the added fuss of thinners and paint/varnish reactivity.

They can be more work, as you have to thin them to get an even moderately subtle, transparent effect, but that's the price you pay for a jack of all trades. More often than not, I just add a bit of water and go about my business, little different than if I was pulling from a pot of Badab Black or Devlan Mud. If I wanted to come as close as possible to that exact experience, I'd transfer Army Painter washes into my old Citadel pots.

[edit:] Talys - I'm with you on the weakness of VGC metallics. I have a bottle of silver that behaves like the equally crappy craft paint metallics I've tried - almost gelatinous, separates terribly... its only edge is in pigment density and it's not that big of one. I've heard good things about the VMC metallics, though, and can personally vouch for the VMA ones. The gold, silver, and gungrey/gunmetal bottles I have cover and shine like Citadel paints, while going on much thinner and more smoothly. Thinning GW paints to an equivalent consistency sees an increase in metal flake separation and decrease in coverage, comparatively.

For me, it would be:
Reaper for the paints (I absolutely love their triad system, so that you automatically know which is the base, shade, and highlight for any color you might want)
Army Painter for the inks (and the dips, too, for when I use them)
Vallejo for the "utilities" like the primer, varnish, and additives (especially since I use an airbrush for priming and varnishing).

All if the same ones I already do, 'cos I don't go for just one. Like the paint ranges themselves, it's not just black and white.

Ones I use, and why:

Citadel, ranging from the old screw-top bolter-shell pots to the current range. Old ones because, well, I still have 'em, and they're usually good. New ones because, despite the nutty price (one of the few GW products I might pay full price for, tho that's also why I only have a few) I like the 'sorta triad' setup of the new range, it has some interesting colours, and I like some of the new bases like celestra grey (great white base) and zandri dust. (Quite disappointed with the death world forest base, though. It's more watery than most normal greens I have) I admit a liking for lahmian medium too.

Vallejo. The dropper annoys me and I think it's overrated. The pigment separates, gets stuck up in the nozzle, and you could shake for a week and it'll still be up in there. I still find spots of cork brown around from when a clogged dropper decided to blow out instead of allow paint through. Also, I know of a piece of equipment that replicates the fantasmagorical paint-doling abilities of a Vallejo dropper: it's a hairy stick that some people call a 'brush'.
That said, the VMC range is pretty extensive and has plenty of interesting colours. E.g. the panzer aces flesh base is a different but useful alternative to tallarn flesh, and track primer is a brown-grey that's almost perfect for my covenanters' hodden grey. Thanks to Royal Mail's inspired 'more than four bottles in a parcel get blown up' policy, I'm also turning more to a local model shop for paints, which happens to stock 'em.

Coat D'Arms. The original GW paint range from before the hex bottles, kept around and given a new name. It uses the same big, paint-preserving pots that others like PP now use too. The range has also grown a bit from it's fantasy roots and has impressive military and WWII lines too. Lots of interesting colours. Their elven flesh isn't a very close match for the old GW elf flesh that disappeared, but a mix of that, their oriental flesh and white, comes close. Dark earth is also a decent base for a charadon granite substitute mix.
Some time ago they added 'super washes' and super shaders. From the couple of pots I tried, I don't think much of the super washes. They behave more like very thinned paints than the wooshy GW washes, though I was pretty impressed with the CDA yellow wash as a stain (rather than a shade) over white, same as the strong yellow ink they added at the same time. Super shaders behave a bit like toned varnishes used as dip, particularly the Army Painter stuff, but with more brushing than dipping. They come in larger pots in three colours: Black, dark brown and light brown. Black seems to be a bit thinner than brown.

Miniature Paints (a slightly confusing name) from Ral Partha Europe. Nice-sized pots, good price. I bought the whole range barring some coloured metallics. Has a few poor-coverage colours, some reds and yellows like you might expect, but also some blues and greens, that are normally pretty opaque in other lines. Their online swatches also don't match the colours too well, in some cases. Still, I like 'em. They have some interesting colours, particularly an unusual amount of reds, pinks and purples, and some decently opaque ones. Their mustard is a good, solid base for yellow, tanned flesh is another tallarn sub, and the coverage of deep red caused me to throw out my pot of mechanicus red foundation paint. The same vallejo-stocking shop has these too, so I'm pretty satisfied.

Humbrol. Just a couple of these. Nice olive green and brick red...

Craft paints. Some bad (mostly European) but the better ones I've tried (mostly American) come pretty close to mini paint quality (and surpass some of the stinkers). More interesting colours, and you get a load in a 59ml bottle for a quid or so.

Winsor & Newton drawing inks. Shiny shellac stuff, waterproof, quite vivid and behave a lot like GW washes.

When I say 'interesting colours' I mean a wider range of subtler shades than GW's old, saturated, primary space marine colours, including some ones you might find on real-world militaries. I've got a thing about beiges and olive greens. Also, can't remember who said it, but in a recent paint topic here someone talked about a wide range of paints cutting out some of the need to mix them, for layers or whatnot. I agree with that, and rummaging through a variety of ranges helps. I obsessively arrange my colours according to hue and value, and I think I've got some pretty decent strings set up. (six greys between black and white! )

I'd go:

Vallejo Primers
Vallejo Game Air Colours
Vallejo Model Air Yellows
GW Flesh colors
GW Washes

I love having a ton of paints for variety so I use GW both old and new lines, Vellejo and P3. I like them all and aside from pot or dripper bottle and use whatever I want with my airbrush via Vellejos airbrush thinner. I prefer dripper bottles for my airbrush but prefer paint pots for my brush work so again variety is key. Hope this helps.

Steelmage99 wrote:
Vallejo paints and GW washes.

This.
Alternatively however, recently. GW washes with their "Shake for an eternity or suffer shiny gloss-like results" has me leaning towards alternatives currently.

I am really happy with the Vallejo Game paints I'm using, though I have a little P3 that I like as well - though their bottles suck.

I make my own washes, and though I don't know how others feel about it, recommend anyone pick up some mixing medium and some varnish and give it a try. A drop of varnish, a dab of water and you can add the colour you want, as much as you want while mixing with a brush. Mixing medium is useful to control the varnish. Takes no time, and will always match your pallet.

Liquitex Heavy Body paints. Readily available at a huge cost savings over miniature brand paints, good pigment load.

I thin them to the right consistency in dropper bottles and add directly to a palette or airbrush.

i am one of the few people i know who sticks to one line of paint...
for me it is P3 all the way...
i love the pots, the tones, and the dense liquid pigment...
i paint straight out of the pot, unless i am mixing a custom shade of color, and don't use thinner, medium, or retarder...
just a little drop of water on my ceramic tile to dip the brush tip in before i apply the paint...

since every paint brand behaves differently, once i found the one i liked, and works for my style, i stuck with it, and haven't felt any reason to change just for the sake of variety...
i can always mix whatever tone i need, which is part of the challenge that i really enjoy, and makes me a better painter, as i mix more for smoother transitions between my layers...

the hard part is finding what works for you personally...

cheers
jah

If you are going to buy a paint line, I highly recommend buying the Army Painter Mega Paint set. For $125USD you get their entire line (50 colors), plus a few brushes. Their paints and especially their washes are just amazing.

http://usshop.thearmypainter.com/products.php?ProductGroupId=8

I would then supplement this with Privateer Press Formula P3 paints as needed. There are 72+ colors in the line, so its a bit more expensive than the Army Painter. Well worth adding colors as you go though. P3 paints are my top favorites followed by Army Painter a close second. I use Army Painter to fill the gaps that P3 doesn't have. If you are just starting out though, you cannot beat the Quality and Quantity of the Army Painter Mega bundle.


Army Painter on Amazon

http://www.amazon.com/Army-Painter-Mega-Paint-Set/dp/B00HC9YNZU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1415609379&sr=8-1&keywords=army+painter+mega+paint+set

There's nothing wrong with AP paints, but their colors are highly limiting. Some of their color sets (like purple) are nearly non-existent.

For whatever project you're working on, it's nice if the paint set has a defined triad of paints that let you do base / bright layer / brighter layer, or shadow / base / highlight. Even better if the paint range has 4 or 5, because eventually, besides layers, you will want to do highlights and after that, a "final" highlight.

When you start out, I don't think it's great on one model to mix paints from different ranges for a single base color -- for instance, using AP for bright green, GW for a basecoat green, and Vallejo for a dark shadow. The reason is that the paints all work a little differently, and dry differently. Once you have experience with the various paints, sure, but until then, I think it's just complicating the job.

I'm in the same boat myself.. Had to rebuild my paint collection.
I personally went for P3, Vallejo.
And Citadel for washes.
And Army Painter strong tone as a Devlan Mud substitute.

I'm also looking at getting some good airbrush primaries R,Y,B and black and white for colour mixing.
Not sure what paintlines to for there.
Maybe badgers Minitaire. Or golden High Flow Acrylics. The latter come in fairly well sized bottles for the money. 4 Oz or 118 ml.
Since a few drops goes a long way with any brushes be they hairy or airy they will last for ages.
Just need a proper colour wheel and grey card for that perfect 18% grey.

And after I'm done moving house I'll be back at my painting table again.
Just need some proper lights for painting, and a halogen for heat setting epoxies/paints if the need arises.

 jah-joshua wrote:
i am one of the few people i know who sticks to one line of paint...
for me it is P3 all the way...
i love the pots, the tones, and the dense liquid pigment...
i paint straight out of the pot, unless i am mixing a custom shade of color, and don't use thinner, medium, or retarder...
just a little drop of water on my ceramic tile to dip the brush tip in before i apply the paint...

since every paint brand behaves differently, once i found the one i liked, and works for my style, i stuck with it, and haven't felt any reason to change just for the sake of variety...
i can always mix whatever tone i need, which is part of the challenge that i really enjoy, and makes me a better painter, as i mix more for smoother transitions between my layers...

the hard part is finding what works for you personally...

cheers
jah

I agree with you fully, I am a one brand kind of guy

Vallejo all the way.