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I'm curious Dakka, if someone wanted to get into tabletop gaming but had no idea about anything, nor any particular preferences which games would you direct them to?

For me I'd steer them towards Infinity at the moment as I find the sculpts to be some of the very best in the gaming market and the gameplay very intuitive once you've wrapped your head around it.
It suffers a little from all the terrain you need to play creating a barrier of entry but between the people at the FLGS having terrain to use and the stuff that comes in the Operation Icestorm box that shouldn't be too big of an issue.

I'd also suggest Dystopian Wars if Infinity wasn't their style as I really think Spartan have picked up their game recently with their rules and 2.0 is a huge improvement, as well the models don't look terrible with a relatively simple paintjob where Infinity miniatures would probably require more skill.

I'm partial to Spartan Games, particularly Firestorm. Firestorm V1 was a little more than a coffee table game with dice and models with some questionable balance and not a whole lot of variety in play or depth. Now with V2, the game was cleaned up of some of the more confusing/tedious rules (fighter craft stand out for me) and more variety in gameplay was added with MARs (special rules/USRs) and ship options.

Its a good game to start with because its cheap, easy to learn, has nice and simple models with a variety of looks between factions, has solid balance, and offers straightforward gameplay.

That, and you know, spaceships are fething cool. Who doesn't like spaceships?

In a similar vein, X-Wing is also a stand out choice. Pre-painted models, simple and engaging from the get go, scales well, and is cheap to buy into.

Terrain for spaceship games is also generally easier than other types of games.

Xwing... Very easy to pick up and play.. Plus almost everybody knows something about star wars universe.

X Wing. Cheap to start, straddles the line between an ordinary board game and a tabletop wargame, and has instantly recognisable, even iconic, IP.

Not sure how I missed X wing. It is kind of the perfect game to get people into tabletop gaming without overwhelming them with the hobby side of things.

I know at least a few magic players who have picked it up and, I'm hoping, will look into other games as well now that they already tabletop gamers.

I'd probably suggest Bolt Action. Only probably because I know some people much prefer fantasy/sci fi over historicals. I don't really play enough non-historical games anymore to recommend one.

Bolt Action has a fun rules which are easy to pick up and the turn structure keeps players involved. The prices are affordable and there are plenty of alternative model providers. As a historical game if Bolt Action goes away or you want to try something new your army will still be suitable for another WW2 ruleset in the same scale (28mm).

If the person wants to paint and play with miniatures, I'd probably go with Bolt Action as well. It's very new hobbyist friendly and the resourced available for WW2 modelling are staggering. The game is fun and there's no long wait times between turns.

If they don't want to paint, X-Wing.

X-Wing and Dropzone Commander. The latter is so incredibly easy to learn that it isn't funny.

Star Trek Attack Wing.

#1-X-Wing
#2-40k (sorry haters - hate company not the game)
#3-DropZone Commander
#4-Historical (3-way TIE) FoW, Warlord Historical, Sails of Glory

Distant: Warmahordes, Infinity, Heroclix,Malifaux

X-Wing first. It's simple yet brilliant.

Then if they want a more wargamy game I'd suggest either:

Deadzone if they like sci-fi
Bolt Action if they like WW2
Flames Of War if they want a mass battle game.

 doktor_g wrote:
#1-X-Wing
#2-40k (sorry haters - hate company not the game)
#3-DropZone Commander
#4-Historical (3-way TIE) FoW, Warlord Historical, Sails of Glory

Distant: Warmahordes, Infinity, Heroclix,Malifaux

Any specific reason for #2? I found 40k to be a complete nightmare for learning rules last year (and I still don't get it). I had X-Wing and Sails of Glory explained to me in 15 minutes. I'm certainly not a hater or really even a player (though I do crush a lot) of 40k, so is there a trick to learning it?

Depends on their interests.

For Fantasy
I think that I will always start off with Mordheim - small scale, and can be used with a lot of non-GW miniatures.
The campaign system helps new players become involved with their forces.

For a larger scale game I would recommend Kings of War, which has free rules and works with miniatures from a lot of companies.

For Science Fiction
Necromunda - a fun game, small scale, and can be played using minis from a lot of companies. (Seeing a theme here?)

Deadzone - really fun, really fast, with starter sets that have enough material to actually play the game.

I think that Mars Attacks may be just as good - but I have not played it... yet.

All three have campaign rules, and can help a new player with getting involved with the game - it means more when Bob - hard bitten veteran of twelve battles - takes one to the head and goes down than when Nameless - second plasma pistol on the left - is removed from play.

For Historicals
I have not played Over the Top in years - but I like WWI miniatures games. I am looking at Flames of War WWI... but have not yet dabbled my toes.

The Auld Grump

Decide what you're interested in first. Sci fi? Fantasy? Historic? Steam punk?

Then decide if you want skirmishes or sprawling battles.

Then see what games are played in your area and you're likely to play more than one game a month.

Decide from those that qualify based on what matters to you most whether thats rules, models, or whatever.

Ignore everyones suggestion of a system because in the end it is bias for or against a system. The choice must come squarely from you. Good luck XD

Probably any of the following:

Deadzone, for simple rules, great minis, and an insanely low cost.

Lord of the Rings, because it's a great setting, with great minis that are cheap on the 2nd hand market and plenty of depth and scope.

40k, because the minis are still some of the best out there, the cost doesn't have to be unreasonable if you're clever. The rules are ultimately quite simple at their heart and can be great fun. I
Also, the great availability both new and second hand helps.

At first, I'd shy away from Infinity, Malifaux and X-wing as, regardless of the rules, the cost per mini is far higher. Overall there may be a newe lower overall cost, but that means nothing if you can't see the value in first place. Also, I don't feel X-wing, with preassembled prepaints, really represents the hobby as a whole.

I'm going to parrot X-Wing.

It's a simple fun game from a recognizable IP for those that don't play tabletop games and pretty much everything you need to play is in the starter set.

If you're going to be playing with strangers at a store or club see what they are playing, and pick whatever is the most popular (or the most interesting to you)

there's nothing like being taught by people who actually know what they are doing, and you know you'll be able to get games

If you're planning to get a group of friends together you probably want to talk about what you're interested in

X wing is a no brainer, relatively cheap, fast playing and popular with no paining or assembly

Relic Knights for crazy over the top anime style games and again is smaller in scale

Infinity for small scale SF although it's complicated operation ice storm is a good way in

moving up

Kings of War for a fast fantasy game (new edition is incoming soon, but the rules will be available free online)

Bolt action if you fancy WWII gaming

Warhammer 40K (love it or loath it it is popular)


I'd also suggest considering some of the mini heavy boardgames which are more self contained like

Descent,
Super Dungeon Explore (again a new edition is incoming)
Shadows of Brimstone
Zombicide
Arcadia Quest

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
If you're going to be playing with strangers at a store or club see what they are playing, and pick whatever is the most popular (or the most interesting to you)...

This is important advice.
Buying into a game system that doesn't net you opponent(s) is counterproductive --- if playing is at least 50% of the reason for getting into a game.
Better to have a game that you'll reliably have players to face in almost every circumstance.

Kind of depends on what the beginner is into.

X-Wing is they're really into Star Wars and/or aren't too interested in the hobby aspect.
Otherwise, Deadzone is also a good start, with everything in one box and easy to learn rules.

Your question is extremely open-ended, and since there are no directions (I don't know what this beginner likes in terms of game speed, time periods, type of game, etc), I'll just recommend a couple of games that are super easy to pick up and that you'll be playing in about 30 minutes or less.

X-Wing's already been mentioned a million times, but I'll add my voice to the choir. It's easy to learn and has plenty of options if one wants to get into the game more. Models are pre-painted, which I think is nice if you wanna hook someone on tabletop games. (Dumping a bunch of models in their lap and going "paint these and we might be able to play in a couple of months" has never worked as far as I know.)

Another super easy game, though in my opinion a bit light-weight in the long run (but a good entrance to the world of boardgaming nonetheless) is Settlers of Cataan. A group of friends and I play regularly, and we usually spend less than an hour on a round.

I haven't played it myself (though I plan to), but it seems like Bolt Action is fairly easy to pick up. I play WHFB and have been looking for a good, smaller-sized game that is faster to play, and Bolt Action seems to fit the bill. (I don't like Sci-Fi or Steampunk, so games like Infinity don't interest me.)

I have a feeling some posters are missing the point, just a leedle.

What games would you suggest for a beginner?

Short answer is: something I like and play.

That said, I'd probably want to veer towards something with a low, quick, 'n' cheap model count (unless I have a spare army lying around) and relatively simple to learn. (which I like anyway) What have I got on me bookshelf and in me hard drive...?

God of Battles. Fantasy battles, veering towards lower model counts than most. Hefty book but good, straightforward rules.

Inquisitor... Though I might plump for In The Emperor's Name first. Both free rules, both need but a handful of minis for rummaging around the Imperium's underbelly.

Valhalla. Interesting wee dark age skirmish. A few Vikings, a few Saxons, a five quid rulebook, and no customised magic dice.

Mayhem. Simple but deep rules, cheap download or print book. Fantasy mass battles, but I do have a spare army lying around.

Gutshot. Very simple wild west skirmish, but fast playing and tons of fun. Cheap setup? Minimum one rootin' tootin' varmint per player.

Ronin. Medieval Japanese/Samurai/Sengoku Jidai skirmish. One Osprey book and a couple of wee warbands.

Victory Decision: Future Combat. Sci-fi platoon-level, company at a stretch. Sci-fi battles that replaces rules bloat, listbuilding and gotta-buy-'em-all mentality with simpler rules and some tactical depth. Can use any sci-fi minis (and background), whether you want to go economical or pawn a kidney for plastic crack.

To round off the skirmish set, maybe Song of Blades and Heroes. Some fantasy minis and an ebook.

I would suggest in the following order.. based on how rules heavy they are and how easy they are to pick up etc..

1: X-Wing, or any of the Light rules out of the box games, that come prepainted (there is a WW1 wings of war etc)
2: Dust, comes out of the box and are kinda rules light
3: Mantic games like dreadball, deadzone etc
4: Bolt action from warlord games
5: Malifaux, cheap to get into, you only need one crew to start playing, and the 2nd edition is more balanced etc..
6: Warzone Resurection, if you like the sci fi and scirmish fights
7: Mantic games like kings of War, if you like big armies fighting and want to spend more money
8: Warmachine/hordes, if you are serious about getting into table top games.. like chess and high stakes poker and are looking to getting into a highly competive game.. But I would not really recomend this for true beginners.. it is a game you move to when the others no longer pose a challenge..

Games I would not recomend, the worst 2, that should never ever be recomended to anyone EVER...

1: Warhammer 40k, because its broken and expencive to buy into
2: WHFB less broken but still crap and has a high buy in cost

Personal I do not recomend these 3, but the rules do function and if the person likes the artstyle and the small scale these can be played..

3: Flames of War, the rules are not super and the scale is not to my personal liking 10mm is way to small and they are ZERO fun to paint..
3: Infinity, Because I personaly think it has poor art design, and poor faction design, and it has not enough cool monsters..
4: Dropzone commander, I don't like the artstyle and 10mm-20mm is just to small a scale, it is also not as fun to paint small figures hehe


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jonolikespie wrote:
I'm curious Dakka, if someone wanted to get into tabletop gaming but had no idea about anything, nor any particular preferences which games would you direct them to?

For me I'd steer them towards Infinity at the moment as I find the sculpts to be some of the very best in the gaming market and the gameplay very intuitive once you've wrapped your head around it.
It suffers a little from all the terrain you need to play creating a barrier of entry but between the people at the FLGS having terrain to use and the stuff that comes in the Operation Icestorm box that shouldn't be too big of an issue.

I'd also suggest Dystopian Wars if Infinity wasn't their style as I really think Spartan have picked up their game recently with their rules and 2.0 is a huge improvement, as well the models don't look terrible with a relatively simple paintjob where Infinity miniatures would probably require more skill.

You can't really with good conscience recomend infinity for beginners here are my top reason why..

1: The miniatures might LOOK GREAT, when painted by someone like myself, who has been painting since the 90s, and have good airbrush skills and years of experince.. A total noob to Table-top wargames would cry, trying to paint them to any decent standard. If you are going to paint thin and highly detailed models, you need to know how to use a wet-pallet and how much you need to dilute/thin the paint so that you dont cover over all the little details...

2: It has "serious rules", they are not "light rules".. so you cant just pick them up fast and easy..

3: You need help understanding how the Factions work because everything kinda looks the same, and every faction has lots of small factions in it.. It is not NOOB friendly at all...

So no I do not agree that Infinity is at the top of the list of game beginners should start playing... I would put in in the same place as Warmachine/hordes (that I personaly play), maybe even at the 9th spot because of the diffcutlty of painting the miniatures to a decent standard.....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:


Warhammer 40K (love it or loath it it is popular)

But GW are using false marketing (40k is not a game it is a miniature Hobby for painters and collectors).. So even if you love or loath it( I personaly love the LORE hehe) It cant be played, it has dice bloat and generaly just SUCK balls as a game.. So we can not in good conscious recomend this, to new people "that want to play a game". If they are miniature collectors who like to paint, I would put 40k at the top of the list on Miniatures I think they should buy.. But as a game(and it isent a game), you can't recomend it sorry...

Deadzone - Well designed, quick to learn rules, short game time, so can grasp things quickly. Pretty awful minis, but that will change in the future.

40k - Small skirmish games can teach the basics really quickly, the minis are pretty damn good, and it's well supported. Rules can be unbalanced, but to for the beginnings of the hobby.

X Wing - quick to learn, well balanced, no painting needed, easy to remember mechanic.

I would love to push Malifaux as well, but it's a complicated one to dive into, despite the cheap start up cost

X-Wing and Infinity.

 Chute82 wrote:
Xwing... Very easy to pick up and play.. Plus almost everybody knows something about star wars universe.

This man speaks the truth.

I was around 11-12 when I started wargamming. The kid might understand more than you think, but then again, I was nerd that was already used to playing D&D.

In my opinion, for a new player you are looking to meet the following goals:

1: Easy
2: Cheap
2: Simple
4: Engaging

Those all sound pretty interrelated, and they are on many levels. What you want is to be able to provide a low-intensity experience. Wargaming can be intimidating, and too much too fast can kill interest before it has had time to sprout. You also want to try to start where the prospective gamer has some interest beyond game-play, if you can.

However those four goals get fulfilled is not terribly important, in my opinion. It could be that the FLGS has an annual Mordheim campaign, and someone can loan the beginner a warband. That would be very cheap, very easy, and relatively simple.

X-Wing, on its face, meets most of those goals. It is a coffee table game, the models are pre-painted, you can have fun with a $40 two player starter set, the rules are simple, and many people find the setting is engaging. That said, X-Wing is a little atypical for a table top wargame.

If a beginner already has some miniatures, such as from Dungeons and Dragons or something, an open-ended ruleset is an attractive option, such as Skulldread, Song of Blades and Heroes, or Second Thunder. There's also plenty of historical and modern rulesets with which you can use any miniatures in your collection.

A miniatures-heavy board game is also a good way to introduce a beginner to miniatures gaming. There's no pressure to paint the miniatures and everything you need is contained in a box. These would be games like Zombicide, Super Dungeon Explore, Mice and Mystics, etc. This is a good option for people starting from zero.

I would also strongly recommend giving table top wargaming a whirl sans miniatures. I started out in wargaming by using Vassal. I wasn't sure if I would like it on any level, and Vassal was a good, cheap, easy, and simple way to get a sense for what the gameplay experience was like. You can also use tokens, paper miniatures, etc. with free to play rules, such as Infinity or Kings of War.

I like the suggestion for Gutshot! because it is a game that you can play with only a single miniature per person. You still need terrain and such though, which is why X-Wing is always an attractive option. You can literally unpack the starter set, leaf through the quickstart rules, and start playing games.

I put my vote in for Dust, my 10 year old neice had no problem getting into it. Soon I will be moving her over to Battlefeild with the system being the same but with out a board it will be easy. She already asking for her own army for christmas.

 zlayer77 wrote:
5: Malifaux, cheap to get into, you only need one crew to start playing, and the 2nd edition is more balanced etc..

Seconded. Very cheap to start (you can make a good crew out of a starter and an extra or two), very balanced, and very easy to learn. Once you learn duels and opposed duels, much of the game uses those mechanics just using different stats. The cheating mechanic is fun, and can take away the 'bad dice' syndrome you get in other games, which I feel is good for a new player (no one likes to be beaten by the dice rather than their opponent). Probably the easiest game to learn that I've found since venturing away from GW, though I admit I haven't tried X-Wing.

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:If you're going to be playing with strangers at a store or club see what they are playing, and pick whatever is the most popular (or the most interesting to you)

there's nothing like being taught by people who actually know what they are doing, and you know you'll be able to get games

chnmmr wrote:
Then see what games are played in your area and you're likely to play more than one game a month.

Decide from those that qualify based on what matters to you most whether thats rules, models, or whatever.

These folks are on the right path. Unless you're supremely interested in Solo Gaming (anything by Two Hour Wargames in that case) or you and a bunch of friends all want to start wargaming together, you should first limit yourself to what games are being played locally. Then...

-Go to the club or FLGS and observe at least briefly one of those games and ask a player to tell you briefly about the game.
-After waiting through what will almost certainly NOT be a brief explanation, do the same for the other games.
-If possible, get in a demo game of whichever of the games catches your fancy.
-Then decide.

What the beginner thinks they like is what they THINK they like. What the beginner KNOWS about wargaming is probably NOTHING. There's little reason to strongly recommend a game to a beginner unless they are going to be able to find an opponent. So they should get out there, do your research and then decide. Most popular games are far to expensive for me to encourage someone to buy into them without experiencing the game first. I'm not that person, and I wouldn't want to be responsible for a couple-hundred-dollar debacle.

I'm always happy to have beginners over to our club and try out the indie minis games we enjoy (SBH, etc…), but I'm going to let them know that we're probably the only club in the area playing these games, so their opponent pool is going to be limited.