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I read somewhere that you can deploying units any where within 12" of the board, which means you can place units on top of transports or other vehicles is this true? Does that mean you can for example place a 5 man devastor or tactical squad on top of a rhino and move and shot with full ballistic skill of your heavy weapons as they didnt move?

Aussies......

Models in the Way
A model cannot move within 1" of an enemy model unless they are charging into close combat in the Assault phase, and can never move or pivot (see below) through another model (friend or foe) at any time. To move past, they must go around.

from the movement section in the rulebook.

being ontop of another model would be moving through it, but of course ending your move ontop of it during the move through part. Since they way you would get on top of a model would be by moving through it, this is not allowed.

so you may not end your move ontop of a rhino that is an unit in play.

But its on top not moving through it

place a model infront of another model, now try to move ontop of it.

before you got to the ontop part you were moving through the model.

as for deploying.

even if it were allowed, if you move the rhino the squad would not move with it.

if you moved the squad with it you would be doing the above, which is moving through it to get back onto the rhino.

Theres no permission to actually move two units at the same time.

Is this for real

So your saying if i deploy a unit on top of a rhino, that squad can't be charged, they would have to charge the rhino first?

im also interested in this question, as it impacts Mawloc defence tactics significantly....

ASSUMING that you could deploy a unit on top of a Rhino, you would have no ability to move either the Rhino or the unt on top, because either movement would require moving through another unit, which is forbidden. Moving the Rhino would not somehow move the unit on top of the Rhino as you have no option to move two units at one time.

Having said that, this seems ridiculous. If an opponent tried this, I would simply move to the next table and pick a new opponent.

blaktoof wrote:
place a model infront of another model, now try to move ontop of it.

before you got to the ontop part you were moving through the model.

How?

 Kriswall wrote:
ASSUMING that you could deploy a unit on top of a Rhino, you would have no ability to move either the Rhino or the unt on top, because either movement would require moving through another unit, which is forbidden.

There are no rules forbidding you from moving through other units... just other models.

The models moving over the rhino would not be moving through the rhino. They would be moving over it. There are no rules forbidding that.

There should be. In previous editions, other models were impassable terrain. In this edition, that designation doesn't exist.

This, however:

Moving the Rhino would not somehow move the unit on top of the Rhino as you have no option to move two units at one time.

...is correct.

You can not move two units at once.

Thinking open top?

Edit

Like Kabalite warriors in a Raider...

Insaniak wrote:

The models moving over the rhino would not be moving through the rhino. They would be moving over it. There are no rules forbidding that.

There should be. In previous editions, other models were impassable terrain. In this edition, that designation doesn't exist.

This, however:

]Moving the Rhino would not somehow move the unit on top of the Rhino as you have no option to move two units at one time.

...is correct.

You can not move two units at once.

I hear what you are saying, and cannot really argue against it with any rules as written.

This edition doesn't really have elevation however and I think stating over is different than through is implying there is elevation as the difference is not the direction or path but the height of the movement.

I guess there is general permission to move vertically, I think RAI it is meant for terrain however. Of course no actual RAW saying that lol.

regarding:

A model cannot move within 1" of an enemy model unless they are charging into close combat in the Assault phase, and can never move or pivot (see below) through another model (friend or foe) at any time. To move past, they must go around.

it does state that to move past a model, you have to go around it. if you place one model infront of a different model, and try to move over it, which could end your move ontop of it, that is technically not going around it. Then I guess there is the intent of going around or going ontop of.

but yeah this edition it doesn't state friendly models are impassable terrain.

regarding Mawlok defense, I dont think it would help as the blast marker has infinite range more or less, so it would hit models ontop of a rhino etc and the rhino. I guess the only benefit would be less spreading out so if it scatters its less likely to hit something.

 Vespid wrote:
So your saying if i deploy a unit on top of a rhino, that squad can't be charged, they would have to charge the rhino first?

You can't deploy units on top of each other. Units cannot occupy the same space, for the same reason you can't stack Devastators totem pole style.

Not gonna lie, this is an appealing concept on a number of levels.

Vehicles are already quite different from the more organic models in a lot of ways, and being able to clamber all over them when room is available makes a lot of sense.

However, just because it's not explicitly forbidden currently doesn't mean it's well supported.

You would really need rules to arbitrate oddities that crop up. Plus, like several people have said, we already have transport rules, and getting free transport by physically standing on it would break the game slightly. Covering what happens when the Rhino moves out from under you would be one of the situations that'd need rule coverage.

Still, I'm all for formalising it instead of outlawing it.

 jreilly89 wrote:
You can't deploy units on top of each other. Units cannot occupy the same space, for the same reason you can't stack Devastators totem pole style.

A unit on top of another unit is not occupying the same space as it.

Aaaaaaaaand this is why I don't play in gaming clubs anymore. Interpretation of rules that just seem wack-a-doodle.

Just seems silly. Like how about put the rhino on top of a landraider, then a dread on the rhino, then balance some devs on the dread. Makes sense.

 insaniak wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
You can't deploy units on top of each other. Units cannot occupy the same space, for the same reason you can't stack Devastators totem pole style.

A unit on top of another unit is not occupying the same space as it.

They're occupying the same "game space". Models in buildings aren't in the same space because they're on different levels.

 jreilly89 wrote:
They're occupying the same "game space".

That's not actually a thing.

Models in buildings aren't in the same space because they're on different levels.

There are no 'levels' in the current rules.

Models on different floors aren't in the same space because they're not in the same space.

The game does not exist solely on the horizontal plane. If it did, there would be no reason for vehicles to have vertical fire arcs for their weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gorgrimm wrote:
Aaaaaaaaand this is why I don't play in gaming clubs anymore. Interpretation of rules that just seem wack-a-doodle.

Just seems silly. Like how about put the rhino on top of a landraider, then a dread on the rhino, then balance some devs on the dread. Makes sense.

I suspect that you would find that the vast majority of players are going to go with not putting models on top of each other regardless of what the rules appear to allow. It's fairly clearly an oversight in the current rules, that GW thought was covered by the rule forbidding you from moving through other models.

insaniak wrote:I suspect that you would find that the vast majority of players are going to go with not putting models on top of each other regardless of what the rules appear to allow. It's fairly clearly an oversight in the current rules, that GW thought was covered by the rule forbidding you from moving through other models.

Yes, it's just that it always seemed that there was at least one person out there always trying to do things that weren't necessarily not allowed, but seemed to defy common sense, and ruin the enjoyment of the game. i know that most people are just playing, but these things always pop up when the rules aren't crystal clear. I know that no one would be happy if I tried to set my lootas on top of my stompa claiming they were just hanging on and blasting. Eh, I don't know, anymore I am just a casual gamer looking to play a story, so we don't do a lot of rules fighting.

Honestly if someone tried to argue with me and put their dudes ontop of other models in the game and refused to not do it...id just pack up and leave..how incredibly stupid

Why? Its supported by the rules

If somehow you could put a unit on top of another unit, this would be a bad thing to do since you would immobilize both units.

However, jump units, jetpack units, and skimmers can get around the negative. Their movements allow them to untangle themselves from the immbolizing tarpit created by two units on top of each other.

 Vespid wrote:
Why? Its supported by the rules

No mention one way or the other does not equal support. And if all units can move over other units, what is the point of the 'Skyborne' rule saying that they "... can move over all other models freely..."?

True, though you gain the benfit of the squad on top not being able to be charged, so it evens out and cant really be considered broken.

To move past impassible terrain, moving over instead of through units

Also what about a heavy weapon squad behind the mutilaser of a chimera would it get cover?

 Vespid wrote:
Why? Its supported by the rules

As Ghaz said, it's not 'supported'... it's just not forbidden, and is only allowed on a technicality.

While some people might be happy to allow it as a narrative thing, most players are just going to see it as a loophole.

 insaniak wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
You can't deploy units on top of each other. Units cannot occupy the same space, for the same reason you can't stack Devastators totem pole style.

A unit on top of another unit is not occupying the same space as it.

Using that logic though you could always move "through" friendly models by claiming you are just going over the top of it. Heck, you could go over enemy units by claiming your guys are high jump masters so they never got within 1". The rules never say you can't do it after all!

I'm not buying it. At some point you need to use common sense.

the_hanged_man wrote:

Using that logic though you could always move "through" friendly models by claiming you are just going over the top of it.

Yup. This is why the old rule classing other models as impassable terrain was so important.

At some point you need to use common sense.

Hence my pointing out that most players aren't going to allow it.

The problem with making 'common sense' rulings though is that the line between 'the rules allow it' and 'common sense says the rules shouldn't allow it' is going to be drawn in a different place for everybody.

So it's all well and good to say 'common sense says it should work like this'... but only if you can accept that someone else's common sense is telling them that it's perfectly acceptable for it to work some other way.

 Vespid wrote:
True, though you gain the benfit of the squad on top not being able to be charged, so it evens out and cant really be considered broken.

To move past impassible terrain, through units or technically over

I don't see anything to prevent them from being charged as a charging unit doesn't need to say away from enemy models during the charge as long as they change the vehicle as well. In fact, since the vehicle can't move anymore, you have to kill the charging unit otherwise they can keep punching the tank until it is dead during your turn.

If someone is adamant about this I'll would just large blast both the unit and the vehicle killing both (why take a rhino and not use it to protect your squishy marines?).

Regardless, this seems like trying to twist the rules as I don't see any rules for moving on top of models except for Citadel scenery models. If you can find permission to move on top of another non-scenery model, you would be golden.

 Nilok wrote:
If you can find permission to move on top of another model, you should be golden.

Can you find permission for moving over a spot on the board that is, say, 12" in from the left and 24" in from your edge?

How about permission for moving across the centre line of the table?



The problem is that the rules give models permission to move freely around the board, and then restrict that movement in certain, specific situations. So there are specific rules that apply to models trying to move through difficult terrain, or impassable terrain, or whatever.

There are no rules that tell us not to treat intervening models as anything other than open table. We can't move through them (because that's forbidden, and even if it wasn't is physically impossible anyway) but there is nothing that would contradict the general movement rule that would allow us to just go over the top of them.


There should be, but isn't. There used to be, but GW took it out, because clear rules are for crybabies. Or something.

We are told Models cannot voluntarily move off the board.

We are also told all terrain "should" be Citadel scenery in the Battlefield Terrain section.

Can we find if the "board" is defined anywhere in the book anymore?