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I just played in a 1000pt tourney. I used a CAD and used Scatterbikes & a WK, just to see how broken they could be.

I am not a B+ level player and can confidently say that I live in the top of the mid-tier, maybe even lower top-tier. Doesn't matter what army I play, I have a very high win-rate in non-tourney games, because I know how to play the book missions. Too bad most tourneys here don't use book mission, and I usually have trouble adapting.

Even given that, I lost 2 out of 3 games at this tourney and the 1 win was due to rolling a last turn '6' that killed a Spore sitting on an objective. My bikes died/ran off the board in EVERY SINGLE game and my WK was actually first blood in another game. The armies I played against were Imp Guard (Basilisks hurt bikes BAD), Tyranids (Dakka Tyrant and drop pod Devil Gaunts kill the bikes in 1 turn) and Space Wolves (even on the charge against only 3 Thunderwolves, my WK got squished). Even with Guide, my WK missed way too many times. 1 shot guns can never be broken, because they are just 1 shot.

So yeah, 'Eldar are broken to the point of no repair because no army has a counter"...oh wait YES THEY DO! You just have to field units that people overlook

The biggest downside with the bikes is that they now have a HUGE target painted on them and it does not take much to wipe them. So let them all have Scatter lasers, it is not like they will get to use them for more than 2 turns
-------------------------------------------------
There were 3 other Eldar players at this tourney....none of them made 1st or 2nd place. Nids & Necrons ruled this tourney.

Good to know. I've been sayin'...

That being said, be prepared for a flood of "one tournament in podunk town doesn't count," "just because you're bad doesn't mean codex is bad," and "your list is sub-optimal, list X would have been invincible" posts.

 Galef wrote:
1 shot guns can never be broken, because they are just 1 shot.

This is just plain false. Yes, the guns can miss, but that doesn't mean they're not broken or overpowered.

I played a 1000 pt game a few days ago where my Tervigon was the core model to my plan, so I invested in its survival both in points terms and in tactical terms - giving it Regeneration and a dedicated Venomthrope, and placing it for 2+ cover. Turn one, my opponent draws a bead, hits, and gets a 6 to wound. Dead, no questions asked. Is the Tervigon bad? Maybe - it's certainly not the best 200 point model out there. Was I unlucky? Yes. Could I have done anything at all to prevent 20% of my army from being one-shotted? No - I was already maxing out my defensive potential.

The same thing would have happened to literally any other model in the game that doesn't have 8 or more wounds / hull points and wasn't able to stay out of line of sight - and with the Knight's manouverability and size, staying out of sight is nigh impossible. That's why it's broken. For the record, with rerolls to hit up, a given shot is more likely to get a d6+6 wound result than it is to miss (11.1% to miss, 14.8% to instagib)

"Broken" is derived from "Gamebreaking", and D weapons have the ability to ignore way too many game mechanics (toughness, wounds, saves and pseudosaves of various types) not to be broken.

The melee WK is better

You brought a Gargantuan Creature to a 1000 pt tournament?

Wow.

Anyways, how did the TWC get into CC with the WK? Did you have screening troops?

A single shot D weapon upgrade on, say, a rhino, for one point, can never be considered broken because it is one shot? Ok then...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bikes also hurt basalisks even worse point for point by a long way.
You missed too many times whilst guided despite it being an 8/9 chance to hit? The results of those shots are therefore not a good example.
If you play plenty of min squads, a squad of drop troops should be only killing 3 bikes max, thus allowing you to move the rest away, out of range.

*Edit to remove rant based on misread original post*
My experience with the new Eldar has been far differently. I have yet to see them lose a game that didn't involve the Eldar player making significant mistakes, and my anecdotal experience probably isn't more accurate of larger trends than the original poster who feels that they are balanced to other 40k Factions.

I played a 2000 point game vs a very fluffy Eldar player on friday. I ran my tourney quality green tide list. My opponent had no Scat Bikes, and no Wraith Knight, and no repeated units except 2 groups of 5 Warp Spiders with Exarchs. He was able to pretty effectively neutralize my tide, and shoot it to death. My backfield was obliterated despite having 8 Deff Koptas, 6 warbikers and 10 KMK's going against his Warp Spiders and Swooping Hawks with fire support from his Dark Reapers. Now the Mission played some part of this. It was ATC mission #2. The game would have been somewhat different if it had been another mission, but since I lost 1650 points worth of casualties to my opponent's 300 points worth of casualties, it was still a blowout by any standard.

tag8833 wrote:
Based on this:

Devil Gaunts kill the bikes in 1 turn

I think this is correct:

I am not a B+ level player

Because a B+ level player would know that there is no reason Devil Gants should ever, under any circumstances, have range on scatbikes turn 1. With an 18" range and a movement of 6" that means the jetbikes had to help them get into range. Meanwhile they have a 36" range so moving towards an enemy is a bad idea

He said 1 turn, not turn 1 - they were tyrannocyte devilgaunts. As for the tyrant, who said it was on the ground? You also refer to 36 scatterbikes, which cost 972 points. He said he ran a CAD with a Knight. Assume the cheapest possible HQ on bike (a Warlock Skyrunner as a Conclave) he couldn't have more than 24 scatterbikes in the 1000 point tournament. So please don't be so rude without reading posts properly.

Aelyn wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
Based on this:

Devil Gaunts kill the bikes in 1 turn

I think this is correct:

I am not a B+ level player

Because a B+ level player would know that there is no reason Devil Gants should ever, under any circumstances, have range on scatbikes turn 1. With an 18" range and a movement of 6" that means the jetbikes had to help them get into range. Meanwhile they have a 36" range so moving towards an enemy is a bad idea

He said 1 turn, not turn 1 - they were tyrannocyte devilgaunts. As for the tyrant, who said it was on the ground? You also refer to 36 scatterbikes, which cost 972 points. He said he ran a CAD with a Knight. Assume the cheapest possible HQ on bike (a Warlock Skyrunner as a Conclave) he couldn't have more than 24 scatterbikes in the 1000 point tournament. So please don't be so rude without reading posts properly.

+1

Aelyn wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
Based on this:

Devil Gaunts kill the bikes in 1 turn

I think this is correct:

I am not a B+ level player

Because a B+ level player would know that there is no reason Devil Gants should ever, under any circumstances, have range on scatbikes turn 1. With an 18" range and a movement of 6" that means the jetbikes had to help them get into range. Meanwhile they have a 36" range so moving towards an enemy is a bad idea

He said 1 turn, not turn 1 - they were tyrannocyte devilgaunts. As for the tyrant, who said it was on the ground? You also refer to 36 scatterbikes, which cost 972 points. He said he ran a CAD with a Knight. Assume the cheapest possible HQ on bike (a Warlock Skyrunner as a Conclave) he couldn't have more than 24 scatterbikes in the 1000 point tournament. So please don't be so rude without reading posts properly.

+1

Aelyn wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
Mistaken Rant

He said 1 turn, not turn 1 - they were tyrannocyte devilgaunts. .

Apologies. Makes much more sense.

Aelyn wrote:
As for the tyrant, who said it was on the ground?

In the air it takes 1/2 as much damage. But they all have to start on the ground or in reserve.

Aelyn wrote:
You also refer to 36 scatterbikes, which cost 972 points. He said he ran a CAD with a Knight. Assume the cheapest possible HQ on bike (a Warlock Skyrunner as a Conclave) he couldn't have more than 24 scatterbikes in the 1000 point tournament.

I suspicion that the number of scat bikes was relatively small. Hard to tell. I did lose 60 outflanking Gants to about 20 Scat bikes the other day, Killing gants isn't a problem. Killing airborn flyrants is.

Aelyn wrote:
So please don't be so rude without reading posts properly

My bad. Apologies. I should have tried to take the edge off that and ask more questions to improve my understanding.

tag8833 wrote:
*Edit to remove rant based on misread original post*
My experience with the new Eldar has been far differently. I have yet to see them lose a game that didn't involve the Eldar player making significant mistakes, and my anecdotal experience probably isn't more accurate of larger trends than the original poster who feels that they are balanced to other 40k Factions.

I played a 2000 point game vs a very fluffy Eldar player on friday. I ran my tourney quality green tide list. My opponent had no Scat Bikes, and no Wraith Knight, and no repeated units except 2 groups of 5 Warp Spiders with Exarchs. He was able to pretty effectively neutralize my tide, and shoot it to death. My backfield was obliterated despite having 8 Deff Koptas, 6 warbikers and 10 KMK's going against his Warp Spiders and Swooping Hawks with fire support from his Dark Reapers. Now the Mission played some part of this. It was ATC mission #2. The game would have been somewhat different if it had been another mission, but since I lost 1650 points worth of casualties to my opponent's 300 points worth of casualties, it was still a blowout by any standard.

Hahahaha it would have been easier for you if he had run d weapon spam. The "fluffy" list you faced is most likely an easier win against orks.

That is what I have noticed, if they spam bikes, they can't deal with big nasties, if they spam knights, swarms win, and if they don't spam, MSU seems to counter them. Just because the book can do everything, doesn't mean their list can.

 Galef wrote:
I just played in a 1000pt tourney. I used a CAD...

After some six games against the new Eldar, I can safely say that these two (CAD and low points) are the best hard-counter against scatterbikes and WKs. Though, a 750 points feel better than 1000 - hell breaks loose around 1600+ points, while the 1000-1500 range is Danger Zone tier.

But yeah, CAD + low points = no scatterbike/WK cheese. Aspect cheese is a different matter (seriously, f*ck Warp Spiders), but hey, we should be glad that at least one combo is out !

Sorry, I meant to write that I am not a top-tier player, then edited it to say that I am a B+ level player, but forgot to remove the "not". Sorry for the confusion. I just wanted it to be clear that I am an experienced player who is very familiar with the rules and tactics.

Oh, and I also play Daemons and know the power of 12" moving beasts/Cav. The TWC would have caught the WK on turn 3 since he was on a flank, so I decided to charge them instead. I "should" have killed enough TWC on the charge, especially since I had Precience up, Hit with all, wounded with all, he made all 5 Storm Shield saves. With only 3 TWC he caused 12 wounds.

And one of the Eldar players did bring Aspect cheese, but he was new to playing Eldar, so he didn't do so well.

As to how the Devil Guants got to my bikes: NOTHING can out run drop pods. The Nid player had a list with 3 Spores, all of them came in on Turn 2. The Devil Guants killed one unit of bikes, and a DakkaFex killed another. And before someone says "your bikes should have been in Reserve", yes, I will do that now, but then you miss out on all those shots. Isn't that what people are complaining about?
-------------------------------------
The biggest take-aways for me here are (and why I am posting this in the "Tactics" section): Dakka/CC kills bikes easy, CC kills WK, or at least ties them up

Bring lots of shots, or really fast CC (preferably both) and you can beat (are at least compete with) Eldar

 Cheebs wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
I played a 2000 point game vs a very fluffy Eldar player on friday. I ran my tourney quality green tide list. My opponent had no Scat Bikes, and no Wraith Knight, and no repeated units except 2 groups of 5 Warp Spiders with Exarchs. He was able to pretty effectively neutralize my tide, and shoot it to death. My backfield was obliterated despite having 8 Deff Koptas, 6 warbikers and 10 KMK's going against his Warp Spiders and Swooping Hawks with fire support from his Dark Reapers. Now the Mission played some part of this. It was ATC mission #2. The game would have been somewhat different if it had been another mission, but since I lost 1650 points worth of casualties to my opponent's 300 points worth of casualties, it was still a blowout by any standard.

Hahahaha it would have been easier for you if he had run d weapon spam. The "fluffy" list you faced is most likely an easier win against orks.

Definitely hoping for D-Spam against Eldar when playing Ork Hordes. Actually prefer it when running my Tyranids as well so long as I don't have a Barbed Heirodule in the list.

The list was fluffy mainly in that there was no spam, and lots of special characters. Baharroth, Maugan Ra, etc. Also this was 2,000 of the 2,500 points of Eldar my opponent owned. He intentionally left his jetbikes at home.

We ran some tests proxying a list that included 6x6 Scat bikes against top level Tourney lists. They shot an IG double-blob off the table, they shot a bunch of my Tyranid Flying circus to death before it took flight. They Shot up a White Scars bike spam list. They shot a giant Centstar to death in 3 turns even though it was invisible for 2 of them, and was rerolling via precog.

I was waiting for one of these "I totally played eldar and didn't win, they must not be OP guys!" posts.

A while back one of my friends won with his IG to a flyrant spam list in a league-tourney. They play each other a lot, so they decided to rematch those lists in funsies games. The IG were horribly slaughtered every game.

Point: one tourney of unknown size and location with players we don't know, lists we don't know, house rules we don't know, and lastly, dice luck that we don't know, is NOT a significant data point. Just like "I killed a draigostar with a unit of gretchin once" is not a significant data point.

playing against Eldar with one of the lesser armies right now is like a guardsman fighting a marine in cc. It's not impossible to for the marine to lose, but that is not the same as saying that he is stepping up to the plate with no advantage, because the eldar certainly are stepping up to the table with an innate advantage, and a pretty noticeable one.

As a counterpoint: if you've been watching Reece over at frontline, he put up a 250$ challenge to beat him while he plays eldar. He's been tearing apart some of the best players in the ITC running their best lists, including a dual-cent star and a daemon invis and 2++ reroll abuse list. (admittedly, that game was really close, but the eldar still won.)

How few bikes did you bring?

tag8833 wrote:
*Edit to remove rant based on misread original post*
My experience with the new Eldar has been far differently. I have yet to see them lose a game that didn't involve the Eldar player making significant mistakes, and my anecdotal experience probably isn't more accurate of larger trends than the original poster who feels that they are balanced to other 40k Factions.

I played a 2000 point game vs a very fluffy Eldar player on friday. I ran my tourney quality green tide list. My opponent had no Scat Bikes, and no Wraith Knight, and no repeated units except 2 groups of 5 Warp Spiders with Exarchs. He was able to pretty effectively neutralize my tide, and shoot it to death. My backfield was obliterated despite having 8 Deff Koptas, 6 warbikers and 10 KMK's going against his Warp Spiders and Swooping Hawks with fire support from his Dark Reapers. Now the Mission played some part of this. It was ATC mission #2. The game would have been somewhat different if it had been another mission, but since I lost 1650 points worth of casualties to my opponent's 300 points worth of casualties, it was still a blowout by any standard.

IMO thats a far bigger problem than the knight, flamers etc. Games like this are no fun for fluff players, and if a fluff player *cannot* have fun with their army, thats the biggest issue a codex can have.

You brought a gargantuan creature to a 1000 pt match. That's putting roughly 30% of your whole list in 1 model. I know cavalry are fast but, a jump creature is much faster. Also, as tough as WraithKnights are, aren't Storm Shield / ThunderHammer users the 1 thing you want to avoid?

I can't know your list, their list, or local scene and, I'm probably just tired but, you make a very good case for those arguments that say, "it's not the army, it's the general". This argument really sounds like that one episode of Seinfeld where Kramer was talking about Karate class, and later it's found out it's a class full of kids...

That's as nice as I can put it, and it's still pretty rude.  But, it's also pretty arrogant to say, that an army that is mathematically superior, is "not broken because - I - lost with the them". And you are who?

I apologize to the other posters, I normally don't say things this blatantly confrontational on a forum but, this guy had it coming.

niv-mizzet wrote:

As a counterpoint: if you've been watching Reece over at frontline, he put up a 250$ challenge to beat him while he plays eldar. He's been tearing apart some of the best players in the ITC running their best lists, including a dual-cent star and a daemon invis and 2++ reroll abuse list. (admittedly, that game was really close, but the eldar still won.)

He actually finally lost, fielding by far the worst of the Eldar armies he's used and getting... just obscenely bad reserve rolls.

Link: http://www.twitch.tv/frontlinegaming_tv/v/4589901

 RancidHate wrote:
You brought a gargantuan creature to a 1000 pt match. That's putting roughly 30% of your whole list in 1 model. I know cavalry are fast but, a jump creature is much faster. Also, as tough as WraithKnights are, aren't Storm Shield / ThunderHammer users the 1 thing you want to avoid?

Lets play this out shall we? Assume a 6x4 board, TWC deploy first, right in the middle of their deployment zone. WK counter deploys in the left corner. Turn 1, TWC move and run straight toward the WK. The WK cannot move up the board, or along the table edge without getting CLOSER (read: within charge range) to the TWC, therefore the WK has to stays put. The TWC are just outside of charge range if they move toward the WK on turn 2. The WK CANNOT get away. TWC will charge WK on turn 3, therefore it is better to have the WK charge the TWC first (after shooting it of course).

Of course, there will be other things that will shoot at the TWC, but my point is that if the Wolf play rolls good on his save (which happens often enough) the Eldar player will not be able to avoid having the WK charged by the TWC, unless using sacrificial speed bumps.

And this was my list:

Farseer on Jetbike with spear
4 Windriders + Warlock with spear (no scatters since I planned to Jink to protect Farseer)
5 Scatterbikes
5 Scatterbikes
Crimson hunter Exarch
WriathKnight w/ shuricannons

The most the WK did the whole tourney was to kill a Nid Tyranocyte with a Hammer of Wrath, thereby getting the objective it was on. And it also got a lucky 6 to kill a Plasma Obliterator. Against the Guard player I couldn't kill the tanks by shooting them, I had to charge them.

 Galef wrote:
Farseer on Jetbike with spear
4 Windriders + Warlock with spear (no scatters since I planned to Jink to protect Farseer)
5 Scatterbikes
5 Scatterbikes
Crimson hunter Exarch
WriathKnight w/ shuricannons

At 1000 points, why didn't you run the Scat bikes in 3 units of 3? 5 bikes have to lose 2 models before they take a leadership, but most things that can kill 1 bike can kill 2. If I wanted to run Scat bikes to test I would do 6 units of 3 at 1000 points, because as you noted their biggest problem is their leadership, and you get around that by running a Maximum threat overload list, and relying on opponents to overkill groups of 3 rather than having such a simple target priority.

Also it gets you a megaton of super-fast objective secured game winning units. Which is 1/2 of the reason that Jetbikes are so over the top good. If they were like broadsides and couldn't really move, and weren't objective secured no one would object as strenuously.


Did the Crimson hunter do much work for you?

I've seen people field 5 scat-bikes.

I understand the concept of keeping the squad above the minimum sized so that 1 casulaty doesn't force a morale check.

However, given cost footprint of the squad, I would suggest going for min-sized squads MSU style.

In a 1000 pt list, bringing a 180 some point model that can't secure anything, can't buff anything, and only fire 4 shots is pretty bad planning.

Now, I know I've brought bad lists before because I only wanted to bring my painted stuff, or I wanted models that were easy to carry, or just forgot some stuff on the paint desk at home and I was stuck.

I mean, you have what you have but, that doesn't mean Eldar aren't OP.

Not that I'm mad at GW, in any versus game there will be occasional balance issues: Vanilla Street Fighter 4 Sagat, SoulCalibur 2 Taki ring-out BS, 5th ed. Grey Knights, Orlandu in Final Fantasy Tactics, even recently with 6th ed. Serpents, etc...

The easiest way to prove the Eldar are OP is to compare the units with other factions units that fill the same slot.

Eldar Jet bikes are troops and can out range, out maneuver and out shoot every infantry type I can think of.

Eldar Fire Dragons are I believe heavy or elite I really don't know. their mission though is Anti tank/anti MC. Vs every anti tank unit in the game they are better. They are the equivalent of a SM sternguard drop pod melta kamikaze attack and they cost SIGNIFICANTLY less and on top of that they ALL get Melta weapons and they gain +3 on the DMG table with their weapons, So the 1 penetrating shot you got through on a land raider (because your other 4 shots some how failed) has a 50/50 to instantly kill it.

WK Is the equivalent of the Imperial knights and is far better in every aspect, it is about the equivalent (more expensive) of the Mork/Gorkanaut but puts both to shame in fire power, toughness and maneuverability and Realistically 1 WK could probably take out a Stompa and 2 WK DEFINITELY could take out a Stompa, even though a Stompa costs about 100pts MORE then 2 WK.

Wraithguard...thats basically terminators and you can figure that one out on your own.

Every eldar player so far that defends the new codex does so based on a single game or the fact that they BARELY managed to beat a Necron Decurion formation....

Do the math hammer and figure it out, Game play will always very because of dice rolls and peoples skill levels, but Math hammer is where the game is designed and the creators know the Eldar codex is ridiculously OP.

I am sorry my point was not to say Eldar aren't OP, but that the "broken" units aren't broken.

Screamerstar was broken in 6th ed because it was unkillable AND could wreck stuff. I use this definition to measure "brokenness".

The bikes are slightly OP, but can very easily be countered (at least by every army I have every played with, which doesnt include any Imperials).

The WraithKnight can be tied up by certain units, making it OP, but not broken. Don't forget that Imperial Knights are more versatile than the WK, being able to deal with Hordes and big targets with the same build. Is a cannon WK better at killing a land raider than an Errant can, Of course, but that same Errant can also take out a squad of Marines, a cannon WK can't at range. You need to field the Suncannon WK to do that, and then you cant scratch AV13+

 Ghazkuul wrote:
The easiest way to prove the Eldar are OP is to compare the units with other factions units that fill the same slot.

Eldar Jet bikes are troops and can out range, out maneuver and out shoot every infantry type I can think of.

Not defending them but even with the 1 in 3 heavy weapons they had more fire power than most troop infantry and their mobility hasn't changed.

Eldar Fire Dragons are I believe heavy or elite I really don't know. their mission though is Anti tank/anti MC. Vs every anti tank unit in the game they are better. They are the equivalent of a SM sternguard drop pod melta kamikaze attack and they cost SIGNIFICANTLY less and on top of that they ALL get Melta weapons and they gain +3 on the DMG table with their weapons, So the 1 penetrating shot you got through on a land raider (because your other 4 shots some how failed) has a 50/50 to instantly kill it.

I find this funny because again even in the last edition this was the same minus the extra +1 to the chart. This is kinda Eldar's deal taking one thing and doing it extremely well to the exclusion of almost everything else.

Wraithguard...thats basically terminators and you can figure that one out on your own.

And with out that 2+ armor or even the 5+ invulnerable they fall to massed shots almost as easily and once you start ignoring their armor they fall much faster.

Do the math hammer and figure it out, Game play will always very because of dice rolls and peoples skill levels, but Math hammer is where the game is designed and the creators know the Eldar codex is ridiculously OP.

You said it yourself, game play will always very mostly due to luck, and while they might look at math hammer when designing stuff, just because math hammer says it is op doesn't in fact make it so. Eldar did get a buff and I don't think there is anyone who will argue otherwise but they aren't unbeatable.

 Galef wrote:
The WraithKnight can be tied up by certain units, making it OP, but not broken. Don't forget that Imperial Knights are more versatile than the WK, being able to deal with Hordes and big targets with the same build. Is a cannon WK better at killing a land raider than an Errant can, Of course, but that same Errant can also take out a squad of Marines, a cannon WK can't at range. You need to field the Suncannon WK to do that, and then you cant scratch AV13+

Thats an interesting comparison. Because a wraith Knight has higher weapon skill initiative, and is faster, and far more survivable than an Imperial Knight (except against Grav). 1 Wraith Knight Kills 1 Imperial Knight most of the time, and to top it all off the Wraith Knight is 80 points cheaper. I've taken on plenty of Hordes with my Barbed Heirodule, and it is a lower weapon skill and initiative, and doesn't have the speed or upgrade options of the wraith knight. Barbie deals with Hordes in the same way an Imperial Knight does. Close combat and stomp.

I don't really feel like the Wraith Knight is over powered per se. Just that the points cost of it are not in the same ballpark of its abilities. If it were 420 points it would be a good unit, and I wouldn't complain at all. It would leave me with some feel-badies once in a while as all S and stomp's do, but it would at least make sense when compared to things like a Barbed Heirodule or a Imperial Knight.

 Galef wrote:

 RancidHate wrote:
You brought a gargantuan creature to a 1000 pt match. That's putting roughly 30% of your whole list in 1 model. I know cavalry are fast but, a jump creature is much faster. Also, as tough as WraithKnights are, aren't Storm Shield / ThunderHammer users the 1 thing you want to avoid?

Lets play this out shall we? Assume a 6x4 board, TWC deploy first, right in the middle of their deployment zone. WK counter deploys in the left corner. Turn 1, TWC move and run straight toward the WK. The WK cannot move up the board, or along the table edge without getting CLOSER (read: within charge range) to the TWC, therefore the WK has to stays put. The TWC are just outside of charge range if they move toward the WK on turn 2. The WK CANNOT get away. TWC will charge WK on turn 3, therefore it is better to have the WK charge the TWC first (after shooting it of course).

Of course, there will be other things that will shoot at the TWC, but my point is that if the Wolf play rolls good on his save (which happens often enough) the Eldar player will not be able to avoid having the WK charged by the TWC, unless using sacrificial speed bumps.

And this was my list:

Farseer on Jetbike with spear
4 Windriders + Warlock with spear (no scatters since I planned to Jink to protect Farseer)
5 Scatterbikes
5 Scatterbikes
Crimson hunter Exarch
WriathKnight w/ shuricannons

The most the WK did the whole tourney was to kill a Nid Tyranocyte with a Hammer of Wrath, thereby getting the objective it was on. And it also got a lucky 6 to kill a Plasma Obliterator. Against the Guard player I couldn't kill the tanks by shooting them, I had to charge them.

So 3 TWC cav have 6 wounds. Scatter bikes do 2/3 * 2/3 * 1/3 * 4 wounds on average = .6 per bike. Two squads of 5 should wipe out the TWC in a single turn unless you are rolling poorly. Incidentally this means you've killed 240 points with 270 in a single turn (assuming they had SS and TH or 150 if they just had SS). The TWC making it into your WK intact is either horrible lack or poor target priority. Once you kill those guys, there's probably not much chance your WK will be killed at 1K points.

Now I understand bad luck. I've fired 4 heavy bolters and inflicted a single wound on enemy Scouts (12 S5 BS4 shots to inflict one wound on T4!!), but that doesn't really prove much in terms of balance.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If anything TWC are a perfect illustration of why the WK + Scat Bike combo is scary.

Weight of fire is useful for bringing down things that paid a lot of their invuln saves, things that might kill the WK if they get close.