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Made in au
Camouflaged Zero






Australia

EDIT: I think I am doing something wrong with lists as I add what people are saying. Anyone know what?

There are a lot of threads complaining about how almost every faction is broken. As someone who does not know most of the factions that well, what is exactly wrong with your faction? Why is your faction under-powered, un-loved or just plain screwed by the current meta?

As far as I can tell, these are the issues:
Adepta Sororitas
  • severe lack of options

  • lack anti-air

  • lack of long-range

  • assault options non-functional

  • lack Formations


  • Adeptus Astartes - Blood Angels:
  • is not Codex: Space Marines

  • Lack of super-Formation

  • seventh edition's assault nerfs


  • Adeptus Astartes - Dark Angels:
  • pure Deathwing no longer viable

  • lacks anti-air


  • Adeptus Astartes - Grey Knights:
  • lacks variety

  • fits a niche not suited to the current meta

  • lack Formations


  • Adeptus Astartes - Space Marines: no problems/top-tier.

    Adeptus Astartes - Space Wolves: few units are viable (why?).

    Astra Militarum:
  • loss of mobility

  • over-priced

  • lack of Formations

  • some artillery units do not function in 40K

  • ineffective at its core role under current meta


  • Chaos Daemons: no problems/top-tier.

    Chaos Space Marines:
  • lack of synergy

  • lack of options

  • lack of formations


  • Dark Eldar:
  • HQs suck

  • Wych Cults suck

  • Lack of super-Formation

  • core tools not especially good

  • seventh edition's assault nerfs


  • Eldar: no one wants to play against them/top-tier problems.

    Necrons: everyone hates them/top-tier problems.

    Orks:
  • lack of focus

  • lack of good Formations

  • too unreliable.

  • seventh edition's assault nerfs

  • leadership issues

  • underpowered/over-costed units


  • Tau Empire:
  • lack of good options

  • over-priced options

  • lack Formations


  • Tyranids:
  • has very few viable options

  • seventh edition's assault nerfs

  • too vulnerable to ID
  • This message was edited 10 times. Last update was at 2015/08/26 23:05:35


    Order of the Ebon Chalice, 2,624pts
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    Made in us
    Hellish Haemonculus






    Boskydell, IL

    Dark Eldar- Wych Cult units (barring Reavers) suck so hard it's insane. Every HQ unit in the codex is horrible when compared to other HQs. (So bad, many DE players take a 10 pt retinue as their sole HQ.) Lack access to the new over-formations that are becoming a thing. Overall, it lacks external balance. (And on a personal note, I think GWs policy of removing all units without models during the last round of dex updates hit us harder than any other army.)

    Welcome to the Freakshow!

    (Leadership-shenanigans for Eldar of all types.) 
       
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    Virginia

    Necrons: Started the Decurion trend, and everything is really, really hard to kill, especially in a casual setting. Hence, people dog on them.

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    Blood Angels: Lacks every update Vanilla got. Scouts, Dreadnoughts, Grav Devestators, Eviserator Assault Squads, Gladius, Build-a-Chapter-Master (still), Tank Squadrons.

    Grey Knights: Monobuild in an already limited codex

    CSM: Lacks internal balance and even the smallest concept of synergy. Some decent units but none that benefit the army as a whole entity.

    Dark Eldar: Loss of a lot of flavor. No real complaints besides 'hard mode'.

    Tau: Worse at their 'specialty' than Space Marines now and far worse than Eldar. Pathetic for the race that JUST shoots.

    Tyranids: Assault nerfs crippled the core units and playstyle.
       
    Made in ca
    Longtime Dakkanaut





    Tyranids:
    The codex is designed to have something like Drop Pods, but lacks this option within the codex itself (must purchase non-codex units to do so). The army is also designed such that many of its psychic powers are reliably activating, but fail to have a way of doing this. Ultimately though, the biggest fault here is that non-Flyrant Tyranids just aren't interesting or especially enjoyable in the current edition/meta.

    Orks:
    Fundamentally the same problem as the Tyranids - it's a non-survivable close combat army in an edition/meta where close combat just is really difficult to make happen reliably. Movement is more important now than ever before, and losing 3" of movement simply because that many models off your front line have died is indicative of exactly why these lists don't work.

    Astra Militarum:
    In an era of such powerful weapons of destruction, even the Guard's legendary numbers are for naught. They have a number of actually respectable options, but their infantry hordes suffer the same problems as Orks - you can control their movement just by killing them. Their vehicles are not nearly as squishy as people make them out to be - their current "squishyness" comes more from the meta right now than actual ineffectiveness. If their tanks could move around more reliably, it wouldn't be as much of a problem. A fix to the Leman Russ so that it was more mobile would go a long way towards bringing the Guard back.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/24 12:35:35


     Galef wrote:
    If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors.
     
       
    Made in gb
    Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest




    My 4:

    Blood Angels - underpowered and overcosted units throughout the dex. Fragile point for point when considering all the ap 2 and 3 in the game and no way to rely on numbers. A few advantages but loads of nerfs occured from old codex to new and the old dex was already near the bottom of the pile. An assault oriented army in an edition which massively favours shooting. Many armies do assault better despite that its supposed to be the BA 'thing'. Last codex released before all the super dexes so very unlikely to have its issues adressed for years.

    Necrons - Rediculously durable point for point even when not in a decurion. Have excellent shooting units, have excellent assault units, have speed and have the aforementioned durability. Not lacking anything except the psychic phase.

    CSM - Personally I don't think they are the very bottom of the pile like a lot of people believe. Still poor though. Need IA:13, The Purge or supplements to be decent. Formations (Cypher/Hellbrutes) aren't exactly spectacular. A flood of units in the main dex that are just terribad.

    Renegades - Absolutely perfect. The dark horse. A bucket full more powerful than people give them credit for. Need to go outside of GW/FW models if wanting artillery unless you enjoy watching money burn of course.

       
    Made in us
    Hardened Veteran Guardsman





    Astra Militarium: Extremely bad Internal Balance, most of our stuff is useless for it's point cost, the mobility issue, we don't have formations when arguable the Imperial Guard should be one of the most formation heavy armies in the land. We have an entire thread in the general discussion outlining some of our problems.

    I am the Paper Proxy Man. 
       
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    Tau - the codex tries to make you play gunline (if I wanted to play a boring and un-inteactive army then I'd play IG).
    Tau shooting is sub-par compared to the cheesy armies (7.5 codices).
    Not many unit choices.
       
    Made in us
    Hellacious Havoc





    Imperial Guard: Many of our units are incredibly overcosted (Scions, Ogryns, Hellhound variants), not viable outside of Apocalypse (Deathstrike, Basilisk), or simply don't know what the hell they're doing (Harker, Rough Riders, Wyrdvane Psykers.)
       
    Made in us
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    SGTPozy wrote:
    Tau - the codex tries to make you play gunline (if I wanted to play a boring and un-inteactive army then I'd play IG).
    Tau shooting is sub-par compared to the cheesy armies (7.5 codices).
    Not many unit choices.


    Tau vehicles are terrible now. The really forces to Tau to a limited number of lists.
       
    Made in gb
    Longtime Dakkanaut





    UK

    Tyranids: Poor internal balance. Vulnerable to ID more than other races through common weapons, such as melta (particulary Force, which isn't even meant for them). Lack of invulnerable saves in the Codex and have to rely on cover saves which are becoming obselete with the increasing amount of Ignore Cover. Formations not in Codex.

    Blood Angels: Outclassed by SM, more expensive units than vanilla, promotes a DS Assault style army which doesn't work in the current edition. Unique units, while good, don't meet the standard that Grav Centurions set. No option to make FA Troops despite vanilla Codex being able to (made easier with the new Codex). Formations not in Codex.

    Orks: Only a few good formations, not present in the Codex. No flavour in the Codex (would be great to see tribes). Only army that cares about Fear, despite being one of the armies that excels in cobat. Mob Rule is awful.

    Dark Eldar: Outclassed by Craftworlds, flavour removed from Codex. Several aspects of the Codex are useless (Wych Cult). Formations not present in Codex. Poison and S8 Lance aren't as effective as they appear.

    Yeah...I'm seeing a trend here. Not that I care, I love my underpowered armies, more power to the underdog.

    YMDC = nightmare 
       
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    CSM - Lack of synergy is part of it but there's so much more to it. It's basically a book written on a 4th/5th ed. paradigm and trying to hang with 6th/7th ed armies. I mean honestly, Warp Talons would have been AMAZING 3 additions ago ... Also the lack of even generic legion rules is kind of lame


    Tau - No serious complaints
    Space Marine - No serious complaints
    BA - I didn't even bother with the new dex

    ORKS - They made Boyz objectively worse and nerfed Killa Kans needlessly. Not sure it was a great move to make Ghaz. a LoW and he even got slightly worse. Wasn't a huge fan of the new toys we got either. More flavor would be good as well. Things like different bonuses for different clans, and why do I need to go get White Dwarf just to get my looted wagon back? They basically just took the previous book, nerfed it, added in some new and questionable/over-costed units and called it a day.


    DE: I'd agree with what has already been said. The HQs are week, the Wytch Cults got terribad and they have no reliable way to handle armor. Plus the nerfs to CC really hurt them as well. No assaulting out of Deep Strike, etc...


    DA: Haven't checked out the new book but I was actually happy with the 6th ed book. Great Synergy with a bunch of options. Its only fault was that the books that came after it started to get rediculous.





    Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug

    Psiensis on the "good old days":
    "Kids these days...
    ... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
    Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..." 
       
    Made in us
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    Regarding Chaos Space Marines, much more than lack of synergy.

    The only assault transport, Land Raider, is over costed and it's default loadout is too erratic (LC, HB, Combi-bolters?). CSM lack the alternate patterns that loyalists do.

    No drop pods or similar options. Without going to FW the only way to deliver troops is a Rhino or LR.

    Basic troops of CSM are worse in every category to a loyalist SM, yet we only pay 1pt less per model.
       
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     clamclaw wrote:
    Regarding Chaos Space Marines, much more than lack of synergy.

    The only assault transport, Land Raider, is over costed and it's default loadout is too erratic (LC, HB, Combi-bolters?). CSM lack the alternate patterns that loyalists do.

    No drop pods or similar options. Without going to FW the only way to deliver troops is a Rhino or LR.

    Basic troops of CSM are worse in every category to a loyalist SM, yet we only pay 1pt less per model.


    Not sure if the second and third paragraphs are joined, but if not, the dreadclaw is an assault transport.
       
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    I dont know where i am... please... i dont know where i am

    tau... tau... tau...

    Hate me or love me. either way i benefit. if you love me ill always be on your heart. if you hate me i wil always be on your mind
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    Space Marines 7E: All other chapters that are not Ultras get immediately shafted (Read: Vulkan He'Stan, brilliant model, brilliant HQ choice, no support.), Captain Shrike loses his best unit (Shrikes wing, basically Shrike with Vanguard Veterans but at reduced points and more options) and Captain Sicarius losing his special rule and it becoming a warlord trait.

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    Made in us
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    What's left of Cadia

    Well. I play guard and there's already a (fairly long) thread dedicated to what's wrong with guard

    TheEyeOfNight- I swear, this thread is 70% smack talk, 20% RP organization, and 10% butt jokes
    TheEyeOfNight- "Ordo Xenos reports that the Necrons have attained democracy, kamikaze tendencies, and nuclear fission. It's all tits up, sir."
    Space Marine flyers are shaped for the greatest possible air resistance so that the air may never defeat the SPACE MARINES!
    Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum
     
       
    Made in gb
    Executing Exarch






    Dark Angels: Overall, great (much better than we're used to dealing with, as we're normally the 'test bed' for the standard SM codex. Luckily, BA jumped on that grenade for us this edition). Only two problems - Pure Deathwing armies auto-lose (due to not being able to deepstrike turn 1 anymore, and not being allowed to start on the board or buy land raiders), and we lack Skyfire options because GW doesn't want to step on FW's toes by including the Mortis Dread in the codex.

    Harlequins: In the fluff, they're a force ideal to being allied into either Craftworld or Dark Eldar lists - except you can't take them as an allied detachment (no HQ), the small formations are restrictive on what you get (Cast of Players doesn't fit in a Starweaver, Cegorach's Jest doesn't allow any Elite units, The Heroes' Path prevents your T3 characters from joining units) and their minimum proper detachment size includes six mandatory units with a total cost of 500pts barebones.
       
    Made in ca
    Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot




    Canada

    DA:

    still no viable anti-air methods at all betond forgeworld and the command tanks

    azreal and belial are virtually worthless

    deathwing and standard marines have become very narrow minded and/or underdeveloped with the new codex meanwhile the ravenwing are stellar

    standard chaplain is still a joke pick you take "for the lulz"


    DA army: 3500pts,
    admech army: 600pts
    ravenguard: 565 pts

     
       
    Made in pl
    Longtime Dakkanaut




    IG
    no mobility
    no resilience
    no niche at which it is good at
    lack of counter to stuff that is offten used by other armies
    no character
    lack of external and internal balance
    being a 7th ed codex, but having no 7th ed rules in mind

       
    Made in us
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    Pre Heresy Black Templar Librarian






    North of Chicago, IL USA

    Black Templars: They took away my Holy Orbs of Antioch, man. Nobody asked me if I was using it or nothing. fething guys...

    Forgeworld Download Page <-- Here there be cool stuff! DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
     
       
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    so Zero Complaints about Imperial Knights?
       
    Made in ca
    Longtime Dakkanaut





    Tau:

    I'm talking base Tau here.

    Pathfinders suck. Way too expensive. Every other option of ML is so much better. Pathfinders can only be taken to games with the most pants on head slowed people who don't just target them with massed fire and kill them off.

    Not enough cool alien auxiliaries.

    Vespids cool but useless

    Kroot cool but semi-useless outside of casual games

    Transport too expensive for what it does. Especially when its gundrones have that crappy of a BS.

    No STR 9 gun.

    Heavy Rail Rifle too weak. Up it to STR 9. Cost reduction on models that take the HRR.

    Hammheread useless. A single shot? Pfft.

    Not enough access to cool weapons like Rail Rifles and Ion Rifles.

    Fliers are junk.

    You know what? Other than a few insanely good units our codex is just crap. Needs buffs across the board except for Crisis Suits, HYMP Weapon, and Riptides. Skyray's are okay but a small price nerf would be okay.

    IC all useless.

    No formations or super formations.

    Kroot need to be made melee again. That's why we have them in the dex. If they can't melee then they are basically sub par FW unless your opponent has a list weak to sniper fire.

    Drones rules wonky and generally not worth it.

    Sniper Drone Squad and Stealth Suits take up weird places in the FOC and are in roles that are hotly contest by better units.

    Need more Riptide variants. If I don't get a constant stream of tears about them I start to die a little inside. We need to up the rage factor. Make the 104 look balanced.

    I'm joking about that last point. Although more suits and kits are always cool. Tau have one of the smallest amounts of possible units to pick up out of any faction.

    Edit
    I'm expecting the FSE stuff to be rolled into one large Tau Codex.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/24 15:27:49


     
       
    Made in gb
    Warwick Kinrade




    Chaos Space Marines:

    - No synergy or interplay between units. Deploy, shoot and charge as individual units with no actual tactics at the wider level.
    - Complete absence of mobility in Troops. No Outflank, no Scout, no Infiltrate, no 12" moves, extremely limited transports.
    - Abysmal internal balance. Units often duplicate roles, sometimes within the same FOC slot.
    - Balance is in the wrong places. Iconic units that should form backbone roles, are not taken. Rare and unique units are taken in bulk. The tournament list looks nothing like the fluff says it should.
    - Units not being equipped for their roles. Assault units without grenades. Slow assault infantry without affordable transports. Units paying for random abilities without any likelihood that they'll be a useful benefit.

    - Zero incentive to play fluffy. No formation bonuses, no Mark interactions or benefits, no reason at all to play anything other than the best Mark for a particular unit. Closest is matching your HQ's Mark with his bodyguard.
    - 'Chaotic' feeling is all-or-nothing. Lack of Chaos-specific special and heavy weapons. Lack of betrayal/vicious special rules. Lack of Heresy-era equipment and tactics. Attempts to strike a weird middle-ground between Legion and Renegades that ultimately fails to represent either.
    - Control taken away from the player. Champions of Chaos forces poor decisions, no scatter mitigation for Deep Strike, overly reliant on random rolls and tables to generate outcomes.

    - Overly reliant on Fast Attack, relative dearth of Elites.
    - Poor allocation of stats. Why are Daemon Engines WS3 when Lesser Daemons are 3/4/5/5 depending on God? Why do Berzerkers have 1 Attack? Why does Huron have the only bionics in the game with a negative effect?
    - Not enough anti-air firepower. The options are extremely expensive, lack weight of fire, and/or lack Skyfire.
    - Over reliance on Forge World to pad the book out.

    I'll stop now before I make myself sad.

    WarOne wrote:
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    Made in us
    [DCM]
    Pre Heresy Black Templar Librarian






    North of Chicago, IL USA

     Filch wrote:
    so Zero Complaints about Imperial Knights?


    Forge World book 4 of the Horus Heresy has the Questoris Knight Crusade Army list. THIS is what the Imperial Knights should have been. Tons more options/upgrades, and Knights for each CAD slot.

    if I were a Knight player, I'd use HH Book 4.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/24 15:21:01


    Forgeworld Download Page <-- Here there be cool stuff! DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
     
       
    Made in gb
    Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest




     kronk wrote:
     Filch wrote:
    so Zero Complaints about Imperial Knights?


    Forge World book 4 of the Horus Heresy has the Questoris Knight Crusade Army list. THIS is what the Imperial Knights should have been. Tons more options/upgrades, and Knights for each CAD slot.

    if I were a Knight player, I'd use HH Book 4.


    I'm not a knight player but I'd like to thank you all the same for that tid bit of knowledge! May have to check it out.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/24 15:23:38


     
       
    Made in us
    [DCM]
    Pre Heresy Black Templar Librarian






    North of Chicago, IL USA

    Poly Ranger wrote:
     kronk wrote:
     Filch wrote:
    so Zero Complaints about Imperial Knights?


    Forge World book 4 of the Horus Heresy has the Questoris Knight Crusade Army list. THIS is what the Imperial Knights should have been. Tons more options/upgrades, and Knights for each CAD slot.

    if I were a Knight player, I'd use HH Book 4.


    I'm not a knight player but I'd like to thank you all the same for that tid bit of knowledge! May have to check it out.


    Note that as it's a 30k book, some folks might not want to play 40k with it. My group would, but we're cool like that.

    Just an FYI before you drop $100 on a book that you might not get to use.

    Forgeworld Download Page <-- Here there be cool stuff! DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
     
       
     
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