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Hi everyone. Kind of a silly question, but I have very little knowledge about WWII other than general, major things, and even less knowledge about armies. Any suggestions for a WWII game that would be easy to get into without too much history learning? Was thinking maybe giving Bolt Action a try?

I prefer Chain of Command, but both Bolt Action and Battlegrouo are good choices too. The good thing is that your miniatures and terrain work with any rules, so you can try out whatever rules you want.

The biggest decision to make is the time and place you are looking at. Americans vs Germans in the west after D-Day? Germany invading the Soviet Union in 1941?

First though... What scale miniatures do you want to play with?

Do you want a low level skirmish game or something larger in scope?

Do you want a game that focusses on a historical feel or one with a more 'gamey' approach?

Most rules, like Bolt Action and our Battlegroup, give a good historical setting context in the books so knowing anything about WW2 isn't a pre-requisite to play.

Also consider what existing terrain you already have... That's a good indicator of what scale you want to play in as reusing existing terrain will save you on costs.

Bolt Action has one of the best looking miniature game rule books I've ever seen. When I read the rules, they had a familiar feel to them, as if I already knew how to play. I have read and tried Disposable Heroes and Arc of Fire, both of which were way too detailed for completion of more than 1 turn per hour.

Bolt Action is, in my opinion, by far the best game for a small scale platoon on platoon game.
If you and your friends have more time then you can move it up to several platoons a side too.

Are you looking for a game that gives you rules and a canned history?

Thanks for all the replies everyone! I AM interested in a smaller scope game (more skirmish in size, not an entire army) so Bolt Action looks like it would be a good start.

I just happen to catch this thread and it got me curious as I've been watching a ton of WWII documentaries lately. And, I've become a big WWII history fan. So, I just scanned around on Amazon for Bolt Action miniatures, and they have plenty. But, that said, I don't see any flyers. Is the Battle of Britain even possible in this game? Or is it ground-only?

Thanks

SG

Warlord has rules for air combat in the context of Bolt Action battles on their website. In normal BA games, air can be used for ground attacks. With the extra/optional rules I think you can try to interdict these attacks.

Having said that, you are portraying platoon+/Company- level ground combat, air support is pretty rare at that level, and the battle above for air superiority is completely out of the game scope.

There are plenty of air gams for playing out the Battle Of Britain, Bolt Action is NOT gonna be that game.

Funny, but I cannot get past Squad Leader for WWII Skirmish.

I like the look of Bolt Action, but I was always more into the whole Strategic and Grand Tactical WWII games like Command Decision (or the Monster games like War in the East, or Europa).

I have recently been doing a lot of WWII Naval in 1/700 scale (so far, no Late-war Day battles with ranges of 15 - 20 miles, and just Early-war Night battles in the Solomons).

As for Air Superiority for Ground Combat.

At the Bolt Action level, the aircraft isn't even going to make it onto the board.

A P-39, P-38, P-47, or Typhoon doing Close-air Assault is going to be firing weapons from so far away (especially the rockets they would have used) that it would still be in the next room (at Bolt Action's ground scale) when it fired.

But in a 15mm game, where the scale was closer to Platoon level play, you might get close-air support on the table.

And definitely in a 6mm game you would.

The Latter two would even include systems for doing AA fire by opposing forces.

But you would only have one side, typically, who would get such close-air support, as only after Air Superiority was achieved would the Heavier Fighter-Bombers come in.




MB

 ServiceGames wrote:
I just happen to catch this thread and it got me curious as I've been watching a ton of WWII documentaries lately. And, I've become a big WWII history fan. So, I just scanned around on Amazon for Bolt Action miniatures, and they have plenty. But, that said, I don't see any flyers. Is the Battle of Britain even possible in this game? Or is it ground-only?

Thanks

SG

I suggest looking at Wings of war by FFG, they do a good ruleset for playing with 1/200 scale planes.

Bolt Action is probably far less historical of any option, including Flames of War.

Chain of Command at 28mm for platoon + support
Flames of War at 15mm for company level fights

Wait for second edition of Bolt Action and play Chain of Command until then, the two games when played at 28mm can just use the same minis.

Bolt Action is your best choice for what you want. It is very easy to learn and play, has tremendous tactical depth, and is superior to systems like Chain of Command in that you can play historical scenarios (like Chain of Command) or play points matches for any pick up and play games at your FLGS or friends (which you absolutely cannot do with Chain of Command). It is also well supported and very affordable. Bolt Action is written to allow you to play as historical or as ahistorical "what if" as you'd like!

OP - I'd recommend reading through this thread. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/672942.page
I helped NewTruthNeomaximMade work out initial Bolt Action purchases.

Right now Warlord even has their new year sale going where you can get a free tank with the purchase of the D-Day Firefight Bolt Action starter set! (and free shipping too) http://us-store.warlordgames.com/collections/deals/products/bolt-action-starter-game-d-day-firefight/

I'll quote myself from the thread I linked

Bolt Action as written by Alessio Cavatore and Rick Priestley is designed for "pick up and play" games, so there is a balancing points system (well, as balanced as arbitrary points systems are wont to be). It definitely works for "let's meet up and play 1000 points" or "time for a 1250 point tournament". So, for instance, a Panther costs like over three times as much as a Polish 7TP light tank. I have definitely beaten a late war German force comprised of veteran Waffen-SS with assault rifles, with my plucky early war Polish army force.

Bolt Action also has the "theatre selectors" that are restrictive in what you can take, if you want to play a historical battle. For instance if you have British and your opponent Germans you could each decide to take your lists from the appropriate Rommel & Monty ~1942 North Africa lists from your respective army books, to play a more historically themed battle. Or, eschew points entirely and replay an actual battle.

So yeah Bolt Action lends itself very well to "pick up and play" as well as setpiece historical matchups.

 judgedoug wrote:
Bolt Action is your best choice for what you want. It is very easy to learn and play, has tremendous tactical depth, and is superior to systems like Chain of Command in that you can play historical scenarios (like Chain of Command) or play points matches for any pick up and play games at your FLGS or friends (which you absolutely cannot do with Chain of Command).

This is untrue. You can play pick up games with Chain of Command. Each player starts with an infantry platoon and there is
a points cost for each supporting unit you add to this.

Polkovnik wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
Bolt Action is your best choice for what you want. It is very easy to learn and play, has tremendous tactical depth, and is superior to systems like Chain of Command in that you can play historical scenarios (like Chain of Command) or play points matches for any pick up and play games at your FLGS or friends (which you absolutely cannot do with Chain of Command).

This is untrue. You can play pick up games with Chain of Command. Each player starts with an infantry platoon and there is
a points cost for each supporting unit you add to this.

Must be a different Chain of Command. The one I am familiar with has force ratings and the difference gives you the level of support to pick from as well as utilizing random rolls to determine what platoon support points you have. It is not conducive in the least bit to pick up and play games at your FLGS, points match, or tournament style play.

Bolt action works great for platoon level skirmish and comes with a number of advantages you would expect from a very well supported game system (new releases, updates, ect..) I understand that "heroic" 28mm minis are not everyone's cup of tea, but the plastic Bolt Action range is incredibly affordable and diverse. The game is perfect as an entrance for non-historical gamers.

At my house we use Bolt Action for big models, and Battlegroup for little ones.

 judgedoug wrote:
Must be a different Chain of Command. The one I am familiar with has force ratings and the difference gives you the level of support to pick from as well as utilizing random rolls to determine what platoon support points you have. It is not conducive in the least bit to pick up and play games at your FLGS, points match, or tournament style play.

Yes, it has force ratings and points for various support options. The rulebook suggests random dice rolls to determine the level of support available, but it doesn't take much imagination to realise that you don't have to do it this way - if you want an equal points pick up game you could just each bring a platoon plus six points of support, for example. Or you could just each bring a selection of support options and dice for it as suggested. It only takes a couple of minutes to choose a scenario from the book, then dice for and choose your support. In some ways it's more conducive to pick-up games if you do it this way, as there's nothing to prepare in advance.

 Strombones wrote:
Bolt action works great for platoon level skirmish and comes with a number of advantages you would expect from a very well supported game system (new releases, updates, ect..) I understand that "heroic" 28mm minis are not everyone's cup of tea, but the plastic Bolt Action range is incredibly affordable and diverse. The game is perfect as an entrance for non-historical gamers.

At my house we use Bolt Action for big models, and Battlegroup for little ones.

My historical groups uses Blitzkrieg Commander for small scale stuff (1/285th). It is a pretty good game, although it does have some issues (all games do to be honest). If you are familiar with Warmaster or Hail Caesar it will feel familiar.

Bolt Action is a great place to start if you're not too knowledgeable on WW2 and want a easy going and fun set of rules.

It will help you learn the names of weapons and vehicles, gives short, easy to digest stories on different battles. I went from Flames of War to this and was glad I made the switch.

At the minute you can get a good deal on Warlords website. The D-Day box set comes with a free American or German tank.

"I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies

Does not seem like it makes your review or summary very unbiased there Judgedoug.

We play pick up games all the time with it. Prior to Chain of Command we played a pretty fair amount of Bolt Action for about a year. Switched over to Chain of Command because it gave us a better game.

Bolt Action got me back into WW2 gaming, but since then I tend to go for Chain of Command and Battlegroup. I kept my Bolt Action books in case I came across another local who plays it, but I find historical gaming to be far more pre-organized and less about pick up games, so the people who really like Bolt Action tend to have all the rules we need and are more than happy to let me take care of things when it comes time to play Battlegroup.

 DoomOnYou72 wrote:
"I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies

Does not seem like it makes your review or summary very unbiased there Judgedoug.

If he meant to hide his bias, I doubt he'd put Richard's jibe in his sig.

Polkovnik wrote:
Yes, it has force ratings and points for various support options. The rulebook suggests random dice rolls to determine the level of support available, but it doesn't take much imagination to realise that you don't have to do it this way - if you want an equal points pick up game you could just each bring a platoon plus six points of support, for example. Or you could just each bring a selection of support options and dice for it as suggested. It only takes a couple of minutes to choose a scenario from the book, then dice for and choose your support. In some ways it's more conducive to pick-up games if you do it this way, as there's nothing to prepare in advance.

Any system is entirely workable for pick up and play games with any number of modifications, certainly. However, in both of the following phrases "1000 tonight" or "1250 tournament", two words have been used to accurately convey the game of Bolt Action you and another complete stranger will be experiencing


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manchu wrote:

 DoomOnYou72 wrote:
"I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies

Does not seem like it makes your review or summary very unbiased there Judgedoug.

If he meant to hide his bias, I doubt he'd put Richard's jibe in his sig.

Very proud of my sig quote collection!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I once again posit that, in direct answer to the OP's question:

"Hi everyone. Kind of a silly question, but I have very little knowledge about WWII other than general, major things, and even less knowledge about armies. Any suggestions for a WWII game that would be easy to get into without too much history learning?"

that Bolt Action fits the requirements perfectly. easy, fast, fun, rewarding, and as ahistorical or as historical as you want it to be.

As one who dabbles in writing rules, and as one who plays neither Bolt Action, or Chain of Command, I think Judge Doug is probably right in his recommendation.

For a gamer new to both historical games and a period of history in general, and especially if familiar with GW style gaming format, the Bolt Action would be an easy path to follow. As all historical figures work for any rules, a player can then branch out to other rulesets as his or her tastes develop.

If starting one should also consider terrain requirements and what you may already have. This can then inform your choice of scale.

Historical armies can be used for many rules once you tire of one...

flombonious_jones wrote:
Hi everyone. Kind of a silly question, but I have very little knowledge about WWII other than general, major things, and even less knowledge about armies. Any suggestions for a WWII game that would be easy to get into without too much history learning? Was thinking maybe giving Bolt Action a try?

Bolt Action will be the easiest to pick up, and require minimal knowledge of history.

Some grogs aren't very fond of it (it is very much "Saving Private Ryan/Enemy at the Gates the game") but as a pure game, it's an excellent stepping stone into Historicals. I feel like other games are arguably better (I'm big into Flames of War for example) but Bolt Action plays so fast, has a really cool activation mechanic, and is very familiar to people used to 40k, so it's extremely easy to get other people to try it. The activation system is my favorite part of the game, it's not I move all my models, then you, we fight for activations in the same turn, so it adds a huge element of suspense and strategy you don't see very often. Nobody can guarantee he gets the first move, and you always have to account that things could go south at any moment.

The ruleset has some minor flaws, mainly LMG's being over costed, recce, the vehicle flamethrowers used to be insane, and you used to be able to pin down King Tigers with .50 cals for some stupid reason. The only real problem is that I feel that the tank rules are too bland to use for major tank battles. They work great when you have maybe 1-2 per side, because the focus is on the infantry and you want nice simple rules to keep the tanks from eating up time, but they fall flat when you have 10 tanks per side or soemthing. All that said, OVERALL the game is very solid, fun, and fairly balanced. It plays very fast, feels very familiar, and is fairly intuitive. It rewards smart playing and you can really go nuts with your army once you get better at the game and learn how to use some of the more niche units. It's got some minor growing pains because its still in it's first version, but I have no doubt when V2 comes out in a year or whenever they decide to release it, it will go a long way to improving the game even more.

Not to mention, the plastic boxsets Warlord sells have everything you need usually to build the bulk of your army in a single box, and the starter army boxes are actually viable armies. For example, there's a German one right now that has pretty much every staple unit a German player would use all in one box, and they even have a "make your own army" bundle where you pick an HQ blister, 2 plastic boxes of infantry, a support blister like an HMG or mortar, an APC/armored car/truck, and a plastic tank is included for free. You can have a really good sized army ready to go for under $150 easily if you look around online, and if you pick one of the 1,000 pt army boxes (and they're not joking, that's literally every model you need to have a full army for pick up games) you could have every model you need for right at a $100, as I regularly see them at about that price online and in FLGS's.

Keep in mind, your only real sunk cost if you don't like Bolt Action is the rulebooks. Your models would be perfectly useable for any other system scaled to 28mm miniatures, and there are a lot out there. That's the great thing about Bolt Action, it knows its the gateway drug to historicals, and it embraces it. Warlord makes good models, so you buy the models from them, play Bolt Action a while, then as you learn more about history and get interested in more accurate representations, you have everything you need but another rulebook that costs maybe 20-30 bucks, and then bam, you can play a whole new game.

So yeah, I'd recommend Bolt Action. It's not perfect, but it's got a growing community, the company is very committed to supporting it with FAQ's and errata, and the game is easy to get into. It matches up with your criteria perfectly. Not to mention the scale it's usually played at (1,000pts) is right in line with what you wanted, a platoon level ish skirmish game. You might see something more company sized occasionally if a guy brings conscript Soviets or something, but for the most part it'll be right on what you wanted models wise.

For smaller scale, you might want to think Operation: Squad.

 Easy E wrote:
For smaller scale, you might want to think Operation: Squad.

Something I've wanted to try myself.

Since I haven't mentioned it for a while, let me take the opportunity to suggest that PSC and IronFist really ought to put together an 1/72 East Front "starter set" for BG and in conclusion Carthage must be destroyed.

 Manchu wrote:
Since I haven't mentioned it for a while, let me take the opportunity to suggest that PSC and IronFist really ought to put together an 1/72 East Front "starter set" for BG and in conclusion Carthage must be destroyed.

Second that, maybe updating / releasing some new 1,72 infantry ie German later war grenadiers, us airborne even new British infantry and support weapons. Having it all in one store would save having to shop around online.

I keep asking Manchu... I keep asking...


As for new 1/72 PSC figures... Keep watching, but they wont release any till they are happy they have got the quality and style they want.