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I haven't been able to play 40k that much in the last two months, but recently now have the time to go out and play it agien. Since comeing back from my short hiatus something.... odd has been happening.... When ever I've gone to play 40k at the local games worshop, the employees have started setting up the table as a 4x4 if you say your playing 1500 points. (In GW stores, player are not allow to set up the tables, GW employees have to do it.

I super dislike this, because it feels like you have no room to actually deploy/move on such a small board. Is this just the GW employees being loons, or is this a trend in how people like to play 40k? Just cramming 1500 point armies into a 4x4? (More or less if you are playing under 1850, they think you don't need the extra 2x4)

Like. I get when playing small points, people reduce the board to 4x4. But I'm use to that usally being for 500-1000 point games.

edit: This isn't a space thing guys. Their tables the big heavy duty metal ones. They straight up take 2 tiles off their 4x6 board to turn it into a 4x4. The table is still large enough for a 4x6. They just straight up think that 1500 is better played on a 4x4 board. They are not meaning to be jerks when they do this. Apparently this is a common mind set with players coming to the store.

Just a passive aggressive way to get you to play else where.

The only time I’ve ever heard about games on anything other then a 4x6 are very small (500 point) or very large (apoc) games.

Sounds like something fishy is going on at your local.

Seems weird. I'd generally only do 4x4 for 1000 and under games. Anything over that deserves the full board of a 6x4.

See for me 4x4 is normal. We played 1500 points on them all the time. Then again me and my friends generally play elite armies (GK, space marine without spam, Nidzilla, etc) so this has never been a problem for me.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
Just a passive aggressive way to get you to play else where.

GW doesnt care about wh40k players.

They are trying to turn wh40k into a garage box game. Look at all the recent box games, Renegade Knights, Deathwatch: Overkill, Betrayal at Calth, Assassinorium: Execution Force, etc...

They dont want you coming to play in their store. The tables are there to demonstrate the game to new CUSTOMERS not for you to play on. GW stores are not a place to hang out and socialize with friends. Its a place to do bussiness. Their attitude is that you should buy their board and terrain and play at home.

I wouldn't play 1500 on a 4x4 table unless I was playing 2nd ed 40k. You could do 1000 on that and have fun though.

echoing that... 1500 on 4x4... eww no

Any time I've played in a GW, over the last 8 years or so, 1500pts has been on a 4x4

I've never seen that issue and have played as low as 1200 points on a 4x6 table at GW. Haven't played a game lower than 1850 at GW in a couple months so maybe it changed

I've never had that experience, Lockark.

Maybe it's that Vancouver's GW store is large and recognizes how important the gaming scene is, but they always let the players arrange the terrain as they like. There's even extra terrain underneath the tables, so players can pick a theme.

There's at least four tables open for gaming pretty much every day, and a fifth table usually used for demos/displays that can be changed to a game table for events. This is pretty much the only reason I go to the GW sometimes, over other gaming stores [besides the fact that it's closest to me].

All the tables are default 4x6, at the GW and other gaming stores in the city. It'd be up to the players to go lower. I've never seen anyone go down to 4x4 for anything over 1000 points.

 Lockark wrote:
at the local games worshop

This is your problem.

Well why don't you just ask then why do they do it?

Grief wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:
Just a passive aggressive way to get you to play else where.

GW doesnt care about wh40k players.

They are trying to turn wh40k into a garage box game. Look at all the recent box games, Renegade Knights, Deathwatch: Overkill, Betrayal at Calth, Assassinorium: Execution Force, etc...

They dont want you coming to play in their store. The tables are there to demonstrate the game to new CUSTOMERS not for you to play on. GW stores are not a place to hang out and socialize with friends. Its a place to do bussiness. Their attitude is that you should buy their board and terrain and play at home.

Considering the amount of 40k events that are arranged by my local store, your post is demonstrably nonsense. We are actively encouraged to play there, it advertises the game to potential customers. In fact there is almost always someone playing in there, even during the weekdays, and we are talking about a small store in a fairly rural location.

If I call yo to book a table, I tell the manager what size I want. End of.

Could it be that the store the OP goes to is just trying to maximise their space? I suggest asking for a bigger table.

Maybe their 4 x 6 table broke?

arthorn wrote:
Well why don't you just ask then why do they do it?

They just say "Smaller games play better on smaller tables". Like. They are takeing their 4x6 and pulling two tiles off to turn it into a 4x4. If I ask for them to set up the table as a 4x6, they ask my opponent if that's what they want and do it if we both agree. So it's not a issue/passive aggressive thing. They just legit think 1500 is a small enough game that it plays better on a 4x4.

I've just never heard of this being a thing before.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Lockark wrote:
at the local games worshop

This is your problem.

All the Indy stores close to me that hosts games close at 5PM on Saturday. The GW store is the only one that stays open till 9PM. The only indy store that is open till 9PM is like a 30min drive from me. Trust me, I would rather be playing at a FLGS. Only being able to play GW games all the time can get abit boring.

 General Kroll wrote:

Grief wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:
Just a passive aggressive way to get you to play else where.

GW doesnt care about wh40k players.

They are trying to turn wh40k into a garage box game. Look at all the recent box games, Renegade Knights, Deathwatch: Overkill, Betrayal at Calth, Assassinorium: Execution Force, etc...

They dont want you coming to play in their store. The tables are there to demonstrate the game to new CUSTOMERS not for you to play on. GW stores are not a place to hang out and socialize with friends. Its a place to do bussiness. Their attitude is that you should buy their board and terrain and play at home.

Considering the amount of 40k events that are arranged by my local store, your post is demonstrably nonsense. We are actively encouraged to play there, it advertises the game to potential customers. In fact there is almost always someone playing in there, even during the weekdays, and we are talking about a small store in a fairly rural location.

If I call yo to book a table, I tell the manager what size I want. End of.

Could it be that the store the OP goes to is just trying to maximise their space? I suggest asking for a bigger table.

Is your GW store a one man store in a tight space or was it big enough to have multiple staff and more room to fit four or more 4x6 tables?

 Lockark wrote:

arthorn wrote:
Well why don't you just ask then why do they do it?

They just say "Smaller games play better on smaller tables". Like. They are takeing their 4x6 and pulling two tiles off to turn it into a 4x4. If I ask for them to set up the table as a 4x6, they ask my opponent if that's what they want and do it if we both agree. So it's not a issue/passive aggressive thing. They just legit think 1500 is a small enough game that it plays better on a 4x4.

I've just never heard of this being a thing before.

1,500 points on a 4x4 is pretty common where I play as well. Anything more than 1,500 tends to invite the need for at least a 4x6. 4x4 is common in the smaller stores in my area because of obvious space issues.

 Lockark wrote:
The only indy store that is open till 9PM is like a 30min drive from me. Trust me, I would rather be playing at a FLGS.

Seems I got it rough. All my FLGS (both GW and independant) are at least 20 minutes from me and I don't even live outside my city bounds. Honestly dude, 30 minutes isn't bad at all. It's only bad when you're pressed for time, and this isn't a hobby that's friendly to those who are pressed for time haha

 Lockark wrote:
All the Indy stores close to me that hosts games close at 5PM on Saturday. The GW store is the only one that stays open till 9PM. The only indy store that is open till 9PM is like a 30min drive from me. Trust me, I would rather be playing at a FLGS. Only being able to play GW games all the time can get abit boring.

...

How do these stores stay in business? That seems absolutely insane to me, even the store in my area that closes early is open until 10pm on weekdays, 11pm on the weekend.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Lockark wrote:
All the Indy stores close to me that hosts games close at 5PM on Saturday. The GW store is the only one that stays open till 9PM. The only indy store that is open till 9PM is like a 30min drive from me. Trust me, I would rather be playing at a FLGS. Only being able to play GW games all the time can get abit boring.

...

How do these stores stay in business? That seems absolutely insane to me, even the store in my area that closes early is open until 10pm on weekdays, 11pm on the weekend.

It's not all that insane. The stores in my area close are closed Mondays and Tuesdays (open every other day) and close at 5pm except on one night a week (imaginatively called "Gaming Night" ) when they're open until 9pm. Admittedly I'm in a smaller city, but they seem to be doing well (they've been around for years). So it's circumstantial I guess. Those opening times might work for that area.

Those smaller gw stores like you to play on a 4x4 table it is the same thing here. But no I don't like it.

Are they encouraging a bloodbath so the game is over quicker? If the tables are popular then maybe they are trying to limit the amount of time each battle takes.

Or maybe they're encouraging you to buy new elite troops so you actually have room to maneuver them!

Its a space / money issue. Space is expensive it is just easier to justify a 4x4 then a 4x6 in a small store.

Grief wrote:

 General Kroll wrote:

Grief wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:
Just a passive aggressive way to get you to play else where.

GW doesnt care about wh40k players.

They are trying to turn wh40k into a garage box game. Look at all the recent box games, Renegade Knights, Deathwatch: Overkill, Betrayal at Calth, Assassinorium: Execution Force, etc...

They dont want you coming to play in their store. The tables are there to demonstrate the game to new CUSTOMERS not for you to play on. GW stores are not a place to hang out and socialize with friends. Its a place to do bussiness. Their attitude is that you should buy their board and terrain and play at home.

Considering the amount of 40k events that are arranged by my local store, your post is demonstrably nonsense. We are actively encouraged to play there, it advertises the game to potential customers. In fact there is almost always someone playing in there, even during the weekdays, and we are talking about a small store in a fairly rural location.

If I call yo to book a table, I tell the manager what size I want. End of.

Could it be that the store the OP goes to is just trying to maximise their space? I suggest asking for a bigger table.

Is your GW store a one man store in a tight space or was it big enough to have multiple staff and more room to fit four or more 4x6 tables?

My local is a tiny one man store. They've always been very accommodating. I couldn't ask for a better manager.

It would definitely be for space and time. A majority of 1500pt armies would be able to fit on a 4x4 table if you clumped everything together. This allows the left over area of the board to be used by others (assuming your local GW has the tables laid out similarly to mine before they moved to a smaller but less awkwardly shaped space with 2 6x4 tables next to each other). Rather than 2 1500pt games they can have 3 at one time.

Furthermore the smaller size forces more of a bloodbath to occur, meaning the games end faster.

In all it would be to allow more players to play in a period of time. It's like how after the move my local store eventually added a rule where you could only play 1000pt 40k games (or 1500pt WHFB games) because they only had one table for casual gaming and most of the time it'd be a 4x4 set up.

I find 4x4 fine for 1500 and under, it gets things going quickly, allows you to pack in a whole load of terrain for some really interesting boards, and doesn't negatively impact the game in any way really. Given the choice, I'd take a 4x4 over 4x6 for 1500 any time.

I can’t imagine using flyers on a 4x4. They barely work on a 4x6.

I guess if you knew the size ahead of time, you could build a list for it. But dropping 2 feet does change the way the game is played fairly significantly.

 IllumiNini wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Lockark wrote:
All the Indy stores close to me that hosts games close at 5PM on Saturday. The GW store is the only one that stays open till 9PM. The only indy store that is open till 9PM is like a 30min drive from me. Trust me, I would rather be playing at a FLGS. Only being able to play GW games all the time can get abit boring.

...

How do these stores stay in business? That seems absolutely insane to me, even the store in my area that closes early is open until 10pm on weekdays, 11pm on the weekend.

It's not all that insane. The stores in my area close are closed Mondays and Tuesdays (open every other day) and close at 5pm except on one night a week (imaginatively called "Gaming Night" ) when they're open until 9pm. Admittedly I'm in a smaller city, but they seem to be doing well (they've been around for years). So it's circumstantial I guess. Those opening times might work for that area.

In general shops aren't open around here past 9pm and only on Thursdays or Fridays. Even the supermarkets usually close at 10 or 11pm.

There's only 1 place that is set up specifically as a gaming location (they charge for use of the tables, are set up to do events, have a bar, snacks, etc) and they are open until 10pm Thurs/Fri/Sat, but they only open at 2pm, aren't open at all on Sunday or Monday and close at 8pm on Tues/Wed.

So they're set up more as a gaming location than a store (though they serve as a store as well, most of the space is taken up by the "gaming" areas rather than the "shop" areas).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lockark wrote:
I haven't been able to play 40k that much in the last two months, but recently now have the time to go out and play it agien. Since comeing back from my short hiatus something.... odd has been happening.... When ever I've gone to play 40k at the local games worshop, the employees have started setting up the table as a 4x4 if you say your playing 1500 points. (In GW stores, player are not allow to set up the tables, GW employees have to do it.

I super dislike this, because it feels like you have no room to actually deploy/move on such a small board. Is this just the GW employees being loons, or is this a trend in how people like to play 40k? Just cramming 1500 point armies into a 4x4? (More or less if you are playing under 1850, they think you don't need the extra 2x4)

Like. I get when playing small points, people reduce the board to 4x4. But I'm use to that usally being for 500-1000 point games.

Players are allowed to "set up" the tables in my local GW, the manager might just offer suggestions or loose rules to make sure people aren't setting up games which look stupid.

But in all the time I've been playing at GW stores, they're mostly set up for 4x4. The arrangements have obviously changed over the years, but usually it's just been 1 6x4 table or one 8x4 table and the rest of the store set up for 4x4 tables even smaller stuff for demo purposes.

I think for the most part even the managers who have been happy to have you gaming in the store don't necessarily want you playing games that take a long time and would rather you just stick to ~1000pt games so you finish up quickly and play another small game or if someone else wants to use the table they can.

With the downfall of WHFB and 40k going to the dogs, I haven't played a game at the local GW in a while, but in the past I've just been able to ask the manager if I can use the larger table if I wanted it.

To add an answer to your question. No 1500pt games are not normally on a 4x4 table. In my area 4x4 is for 1000pts or less.

As for the comments regarding GW stores and employee's. Our local GW has no such restrictions, and encourages people to play however they like. The staff are excellent, the space is excellent, I have always felt that the store in very inviting. There is a very strong and large group of players that frequent the store.

They just ran a prep tournament for the major local Sci-fi convention; and had to turn people away. They even pushed the two (of three) 4x4 demo tables together to add extra space.

I guess I just happen to live near one of the best GW stores in the world. Lucky me.

Can you be a bit more spicific, are you talking about 4x4 feet, or 4x4 tiles?

Because my store we run 2x2 tiles all the time for 1000 point games or 1500 point games. But we use a lot of terrain.