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Stratagems

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/14/new-warhammer-40000-stratagems-may14gw-homepage-post-4/

Seems to be just in.

Meh?

...If I want things that work like ZM/CoD stratagems I'm going to have to port them in myself, aren't I.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Meh?

My reaction, not exactly much to get excited about. The Insane bravery will help a lot of horde players but that's about it.

I guess we'll get a lot more interesting faction specific ones.

 mrhappyface wrote:


I guess we'll get a lot more interesting faction specific ones.

Yeah that's what I'm wondering about as well, really that would be the only thing that could make this element interesting.

Remember these three are just the base examples. There will likely be more and as mentioned faction specific ones as well.

One thing though in matched play they said each can only be used once per turn which makes when and how you use them much more stretigic. Also having a limited pool of command points makes for early blitz of special manuvers with things going to regular gring late game unless somone saves points to take advantage...... Lots of possabilitys.

Indeed. Again, I get the feeling we only got to see the tip of the iceberg.
And again, it just makes me think: "show us the freaking complete rules already!"

These are pretty boring, but I kinda of like being able to have access to some "out of game" control.

That assault one has some very serious bite to it. Like if something were to charge a squad of Repentia...

how does CP expenditure work ? Are the CPs the amount you have per turn or per game ?

 zedsdead wrote:
how does CP expenditure work ? Are the CPs the amount you have per turn or per game ?

I assume per game, other wise it's a broken system. Oh look, I get to use 9 points per turn. I'll reroll once per phase, ignore morale once per turn all game long.

 zedsdead wrote:
how does CP expenditure work ? Are the CPs the amount you have per turn or per game ?

Game probably, considering you can get 9 with one of the formations...

you get X CP per game. The different Detachments give different amounts of CP and, apparently, certain Characters give bonus CP for the game.

Once you choose to spend CP its gone.

I'm sure theres going to be faction and scenario specific Strats

They have indeed mentioned Faction ones. And that specific characters may be able to trigger them for abilities as well.

Waaaghing might just become a strategem

 oldzoggy wrote:
Waaaghing might just become a strategem

Yea I could easily see that happen. I also expect some of the older (apocalypse) stratagems to come back in this form.
Like say the Black Legion Terminator strike. I could also see this being how the terminator annihilation force and some other formations would work in 8th.

Actually, now that I think about it...

3-4 per game sounds even more boring than it already is...

For me it's the most interesting aspect about the new edition so far. What I miss in 40K is actual interaction and choices, tactics so to speak. The new CC-rules with activation sound already nice, these points now make for an active gameplay. Of course, the shown stratagems so far don't seem that impressive, however, keep in mind that many daemon players took fateweaver just to have that one reroll for the grimoire - now everybody got that.
The really interesting part will be how many points you can get with your list and what the faction specific stratagems are. Will I get a point if I buy all my Plague marines in squads of 7 ? How many points do Ghazgkull, Adaddon or Guilliman provide? Will there be additional points for "full" detachments like with the latest CSM-formations in 7th?
Despite all its flaws 7th provided a load of interesting mechanics through formations, I think it would be cool to keep a lot of these with the use of those points.

I personally like the idea of strategems. It adds more depth to the game by adding meaningful decisions, both strategical and tactical.

Strategic decisions because the player must decide to either create an un-balanced list (or use allies) and risk losing a tactical edge to his opponent, who will likely have a CP advantage for re-rolls or moral tests ect. Or use a balanced list and gain small tactical advantages when he needs them. This adds an extra layer to list building.

It adds tactical decisions because the player will have Command points that act as an in-game resource. When to spend them? How to spend them? These are meaningful decisions that will likely add to the enjoyment of the game.


Those three mentioned in the article are likely the basics ie. bare bones available to ALL factions. Will be interesting to see the faction specific ones.

Just my thoughts.

I'm curious how it'll interact with things like orders in AM, which already had a similar function. Hopefully the order system won't be totally rolled into it (as that'd actually be a step down) but I could see CP points being used to give a better version of an order, or orders counting as weak cost 0 stratagems with some other limitation.

SilverAlien wrote:
I'm curious how it'll interact with things like orders in AM, which already had a similar function. Hopefully the order system won't be totally rolled into it (as that'd actually be a step down) but I could see CP points being used to give a better version of an order, or orders counting as weak cost 0 stratagems with some other limitation.

apparently orders are free use. however I expect a n umber of the better orders to become part of the stratagium system. I also fully expect the space marine tactics system to be folded into stratagiums.

I think this is a very exciting way to potentially take control of a turn, the difference one reroll can make is sometimes massive if it means losing/not losing a vehicle etc.

I like it alot, and evens out spam vs troop heavy or fluffy lists.

I like how subtle they are. The fact that people are looking at these and thinking "boring" is a good thing. That means they aren't overpowered- there's nothing so strong that it immediately leaps out at you. You need nuance and critical thinking to get the most out of these which increases the skill-ceiling of the game.

I want all the command points to be at this level of power. TBH I'm actually feeling some trepidation about having army-specific ones because I don't trust GW to make them all equal. There will probably be haves and have-nots.

I want all the command points to be at this level of power. TBH I'm actually feeling some trepidation about having army-specific ones because I don't trust GW to make them all equal. There will probably be haves and have-nots.

However what is great about the Command point system is that unlike formations in 7th edition, There is a resource cost for stratagems. So while some stratagems will likely be stronger than others, they will hopefully priced accordingly.
I wouldn't be surprised if some of the bigger stratagems can go up to 5 command points.

I may be naive, but I think the "new" GW is actually, for once, concerned with balance.

I'm excited about these Stratagems myself. Some predictions for faction specific ones:

Space Marine Combat Doctrines will now be a stratagem unique to them. Costing x CPs, it allows all units with the right keywords to reroll to hit rolls of 1 for that phase.

And as the imperial guard will no longer need their voxcasters for orders, they can now be used for stratagems instead. Again, spend x amount of CPs, and all units with vox casters do action y. What's y? Maybe something inspired by the now defunct formations, like punishing fusillade (one turn army wide first rank fire).

Actually, I think a lot of the defunct formation and detachment abilities can be incorporated into the Stratagem system. Because at least now they'd be a finite resource that has to be managed rather than a simple 'free upgrade'.

Lots of cool things can be done, this is definitely the most exciting part of 8th for me.

It makes the 'fluffier' named HQ's even better (as they will likely give command points).

Additionally, maybe superheavies and gargantuan creatures can give a negative to command points or something- just spitballing.

Although there will totally be builds that just focus on getting as many command points as possible, and there might even be 'batteries' for command points.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I like how subtle they are. The fact that people are looking at these and thinking "boring" is a good thing. That means they aren't overpowered- there's nothing so strong that it immediately leaps out at you. You need nuance and critical thinking to get the most out of these which increases the skill-ceiling of the game.

I want all the command points to be at this level of power. TBH I'm actually feeling some trepidation about having army-specific ones because I don't trust GW to make them all equal. There will probably be haves and have-nots.

Thats was what I was thinking about this. All the people saying that they are just "boring", etc... to me thats great! Normally, balance is boring But it makes a better gameplay in the table.

Interesting dynamic. Let's see if GW uses it to push models until command point death stars become a thing. A reroll every phase of the game plus who knows what else might end up exploitable by the nefarious WAAC-er.

BA with counter offensive. Finally! We can be psychos on other people's turns!

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I like how subtle they are. The fact that people are looking at these and thinking "boring" is a good thing. That means they aren't overpowered- there's nothing so strong that it immediately leaps out at you. You need nuance and critical thinking to get the most out of these which increases the skill-ceiling of the game.

I want all the command points to be at this level of power. TBH I'm actually feeling some trepidation about having army-specific ones because I don't trust GW to make them all equal. There will probably be haves and have-nots.

No one is denying the impact that they may have, and people are loving the increased agency.

The ones revealed are still boring tho.

These are interesting, and add a whole new dynamic to a rather tried and true formula. I'm looking forward to them, though they did mention two of these in the video FAQ.

Everyone seems blase about it because people are getting off of the hype train, it's been two weeks and we still don't even have a release date or much faction specific info to hold us over. Judging from the change of the white dwarf release date, the 8th ed release date got pushed back from the 10th to the 17th fairly late in the process so they have had to do extra padding on the teasers. Also, unofficial leaks have been more or less non-existant, which might say something about our leakers, which ahs also kept things thin.