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With every Eldar player having to use Wave Serpents to field various units, what do people actually think of the model?

As someone who played the original version of Epic (Space Marine), I actually really don't like the current model.

Looks nothing like the Epic version. In particular:

Has the same Chassis as Falcon but troop capacity is double that of the Falcon which makes no sense (they both have turret Weapons so I don't thing their can be argument that weapons take up more hull space)

The hull should be longer to reflect the extra transport capacity.

The Epic version had cool looking "petals", around the from and sides of the hull which made it look like the Serpent Shield rather than just a few little pods strappped to the hull which I don't like.

The Epic version also has a convince wave generator at the front of which is where it fires its shields through where 40k one really looks like an after thought.

The Wave Serpent therefore deseperaly needs its own model and not just bolt on to the Falcon kit. I am hoping this is one of the very early releases when they launch the new Codex. The fact they are out of stock is a good sign!

... for someone who played the original epic, you appear to be describing the 3rd Ed models, rather than the original clog-like model?

Never had an issue with the model. Hadn't realised it was compulsory.

As for stock, probably reboxing as seems to be happening across the range. (I have absolutely no evidence for that last claim other than widespread rebox comments on dakka...)

Typo wrote:
... for someone who played the original epic, you appear to be describing the 3rd Ed models, rather than the original clog-like model?

I could be getting my Epic editions mixed up, it's been a few years since then! But they looked cool with their Hexagonal petals and were bigger than the falcons as you'd expect a vehicle carrying a whole squad of Eldar or Wraithguard.


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stroller wrote:
Never had an issue with the model. Hadn't realised it was compulsory.

As for stock, probably reboxing as seems to be happening across the range. (I have absolutely no evidence for that last claim other than widespread rebox comments on dakka...)

It's compulsory in so far as almost every Eldar player takes them as they are the only way to get your short ranged units into range without dying first.

I am really hoping they release a dedicated model for the Serpent, I really can't imagine 12 Aeldari jumping in back of the troop space that only 6 can get into on the Falcon. Both models have the exact same hull design! Fingers crossed..

The Wave serpent model has the same basic hull design as the falcon (and fire prism & night spinner) but it ALSO has an extended passenger compartment and upper hull piece, too. It's actually longer than a falcon.

It is its own dedicated kit. I don't see your problem, besides, it's a lot better than the sailboat the epic model was, or the doorstop falcon from epic.

It wasn't the sailboat version I was thinking of. It was the one that was flat and wide with the hexagonal petal design around the edge of the hull.

Also, adding the upper hull bit is not reflective of double the transport capacity. I still don't see how adding a small bit of plastic to the Falcon hull warrants double has troop capacity.

It's also easy money for GW to bring out a new kit for the model. Something a bit nicer and more reflective than a Falcon.

Hi Drake! I have the same issues with the Wave Serpent model to the point that I refuse to use it. I field Falcons or footdar instead -
we have so many infantry that are fast outside of transports. Perhaps it's a gameplay handicap but you'll still win your share and be true to your aesthetic ideals.

The Serpent is perfect as a model. Its timeless and has a modern design. Dont see what's the problem.

Its not like any of the vehicles are to scale.

Hi Craftworld_uk,

I have avoided them so far apart from some proxying for that reason. I won't use a model I don't like.

And I get models aren't to proper scale, but they should at least be reletive to their bass chassis. Which doesn't make sense on the Falcon chassis.

As for the design, this version of the design is just a Falcon with some little pods scattered around the hull. Wave Serpent prior to that always had its own separate design. The current design is just a cheap modification to the existing Falcon.

Really do hope we get something better.

Drake003 wrote:
As for the design, this version of the design is just a Falcon with some little pods scattered around the hull.

Plus longer crew compartment.

Having just googled the 3rd ed Epic model of the Wave Serpent I'm wondering what the problem is, the design is rather similar with only a couple of aesthetic changes to the Serpent Shield generators and discharger, and I'm rather glad they didn't go for that ridiculously oversized gun as it would look like a badly converted Fire Prism.

The longer crew compartment as a % increase in size of the core crew compartment element of the hull is nowhere near 100% larger than the Falcon without the mod kit. Prob as much as 40% at a pinch. Those Aeldari will be rather squeezed!

I agree the Epic version of the shield gun is a bit too large, though the current version looks a bit, shall I say, anti-climatic.

At the very least I feel those little pods around the hull need to come off and be replaced with something more aesthetically pleasing, and the hull compartment extension needs to be more convincing is scale.

Appreciate all the input, and interesting to see points of view from both sides of the coin.

What gets me (even more than the insufficient transport space and pods/vanes) is why one of the most ancient and technologically advanced races in the universe sub-contracted the Earth Caste to design the Wave Serpent turret. Is it just me or does it scream Tau?

Anyway, I know most people love the model. I think everyone has a model in each range that bugs them, I just guess this is mine

Eldar vehicles (how old is the Falcon?) still remain as some of the most aesthetically beautiful models GW make. Love the sleek lines.

The turret design always bothered me; it’s not sleek enough. Transport-wise, when the kit came out I thought it was nice they had a longer cargo area; the falcon one is just as comically small imo. The falcon looked so good when it was new that it has aged reasonably well.

Drake003 wrote:
The longer crew compartment as a % increase in size of the core crew compartment element of the hull is nowhere near 100% larger than the Falcon without the mod kit. Prob as much as 40% at a pinch. Those Aeldari will be rather squeezed!

Really? Its a toy thats not scaled and you complaining about the "counts as bigger for the purpose of this model" not being to scale... ok lol.

Have you tried to place 10 SM in a Rhino?

Thats not counting all the ammo in those transports, lol the almost infinity ammo XD

OP is referencing this Epic version:



I personally think it's way too busy for an Eldar model, but a lot of people made 40K versions prior to the official one being released.



Again, don't think it's a very attractive design and the kit would involve as much plastic as a Land Raider.

Personally I find the Eldar tanks some of the most attractive. While I agree with the turret design being odd, I don't find it unattractive --- I do think the original Forgeworld design was more attractive.



The turret design is nicer on the FW model --- still don't like the awkward "bridge" for the shield generator.

Personally? Love the current Wave Serpent. Like the extended back, like the length it provides (gives a much more solid base for standing). There are a load of Eldar kits which need replacing, the Wave Serpent being near the bottom of the list. I do massively dislike the Fire Prism/Nightspinner though.

Mine:

Appreciate the pics. Really helps the discussion.

Maybe I am reminiscing too much over that Epic version, though I do agree it was too busy. Could easily be simplied for 40k.

I do also agree that the rhino really isn't practical for 10 marines! Though the point in this instance was more about the like for like within the Aeldari's own transport range. Would be good if GW gradually scaled their tanks to at least have chance of actually representing what they can fit it them.

I particularly agree with the Turret design issue. But then I thought the same thing when the brought out those horrid Deukhari Reaver Jetbikes. Looks like they forgot to put the frame on!

As for the Falcon, I really like that model and the aesthetics, wish it was better for its points considering the pts of he Wave Serpent.

Just would like to see a bit more difference between the Falcon and the Wave Serpent..

I have a handful of Forgeworld turrets for my Serpents as I much prefer them to the strange angular one that comes with the kit.

I would also have much preffered some version of the shields on the Epic version to the bunch of antennae stuck on the side that we actually got. I left those off mine as they just looked so poor. :(

I actually always wondered what those Spokes were meant to be. I leave them off too, as they look weird and didn't seem to have a purpose.

The Falcon/Wave Serpent are two of my favorite vehicle designs in 40k, and two thing that keep tugging at me, tempting my to start an Eldar Force.

I far preferred the Forge World conversion kit that was released in 3rd edition to the existing model. Unfortunately it was discontinued a few years ago.

This old WD article might be of interest to you. It contains full instructions and a template for creating your own conversion in the style of the Epic 40k Wave Serpent (this was prior to the release of an official 40k scale model).

http://warpod40k.tripod.com/downloads/waveserpent.pdf

I tend to like the old 'Iron' shaped organic Jes Goodwin design Wave Serpent. Almost like Bonesingers from the fluff actually grew and molded the wraithbone rather than the current "horseshoe' design that looked like some factory in Detroit rolled them off a monkeigh assembly line.

I must say that I am also a fan of the old Wave Serpent although I don't think it was a transport prior to 3rd edition? I seem to recall that the much larger Falcon was the main transport vehicle at time.

It's funny looking at those old armorcast models today. They were essentially just scaled up Epic models. They even made a Phantom Titan and Gargant. I could only dream of owning them as a kid but they are slightly comical now.

The Wave Serpent was produced by the original ForgeWorld with the designs by Mike Biasi Studios. GW gave the rights for them to produce the Biasi designs for the first time.

Armorcast later hired Biasi but they never sold the elder Wave Serpent, Doomweaver or DeathStalker models


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 Enigma of the Absolute wrote:
They were essentially just scaled up Epic models. They even made a Phantom Titan and Gargant.

my pal owned the Gargant...it was impressive on the table. I still own my Phantom with the Warlock titan head and some weapons. (still looking for the elder powerfist to buy/trade)

If you look at the BaneBlade tank it really is just a simple larger version of the epic version. Many of the FW models are. They have re envisioned many models. Not sure if change for change sake actually is better despite the improved details and quality of product.

Look how the tyranids have morphed from an 'alien' rip off to an 'alien-queen' rip off and then later to other versions. Luckily they have a background fluff to cover the 'design of the day preference' that they use with most of their armies. My 2nd edition friends laugh at the wimpy-fied Carnifex from later edition compared to the much larger and scarier 90's Screamer KillerCarnifex.

Thanks Enigma for posting that link. If a new Wave Serpent isn't released within a month of the Codex I think I'll go ahead and convert my own.

Drake003 wrote:
Would be good if GW gradually scaled their tanks to at least have chance of actually representing what they can fit it them.

Sounds nice in theory, then wonder why having just couple vehicles in the board suddenly fill practically entire board. And wonder why you suddenly have trouble carrying your army around...

Unless extra size is made by making it TALLER(which still maintains transport issue) it's practicality. Boards are too cramped now. Add in true scale vehicles and unless we go to the level where 2 vehicles in army is "vehicle heavy" not really good for game.

Love the Wave Serpent. Wouldn't mind an update since the mold is old and it could do with some touch ups, but the overall design I don't want changed.

tneva82 wrote:

Drake003 wrote:
Would be good if GW gradually scaled their tanks to at least have chance of actually representing what they can fit it them.

Sounds nice in theory, then wonder why having just couple vehicles in the board suddenly fill practically entire board. And wonder why you suddenly have trouble carrying your army around...

Unless extra size is made by making it TALLER(which still maintains transport issue) it's practicality. Boards are too cramped now. Add in true scale vehicles and unless we go to the level where 2 vehicles in army is "vehicle heavy" not really good for game.

Wave Serpents don't have a transport bay, the extra space on the back is just a door that opens up into a portable Webway Gate. Troops enter the gate, and are teleported to a comfortable waiting room, with an open bar and a buffet, 3D chess and a pool table.

When they are needed, a discrete green light comes on, and they finish their drinks (cocktails, possibly. I can see the Eldar being wine spritzer type folk. Espressos for the warp spiders) and then file out of the door, and back onto the battlefield.

No transport capacity required!