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I run ravenwing and advancing gives me a 4+ invun. DO I need to move the full advance or can I just declare an advance and suffer the penalties to shooting etc. My understanding is advancing just increases your move characteristic and you don't need to move your full move characteristic.

You can advance and stand still. You count as having advanced, and you get your 4+ inv sv (makes no sense, but thats how the rules are). You also suffer -1 to hit when shooting an assault weapon.

champagne_socialist wrote:
I run ravenwing and advancing gives me a 4+ invun. DO I need to move the full advance or can I just declare an advance and suffer the penalties to shooting etc. My understanding is advancing just increases your move characteristic and you don't need to move your full move characteristic.

From 'Advancing':

When you pick a unit to move in the Movement phase, you can declare that it will Advance. Roll a dice and add the result to the Move characteristics of all models in the unit for that Movement phase.

This just adds to the model's Move characteristic (with a penalty on actions later in the turn). You would still follow the rules under 'Moving':

A model can be moved in any direction, to a distance, in inches, equal to or less than the Move characteristic on its datasheet.

And if somebody starts complaining just move around circling/zig-zagging. Who says you can't move x" forward, turn 90%, move x", turn, move, turn, move and end up where you started?

RAW you can do exactly what your suggesting, however don't be surprised if someone gets salty at you for abusing GW's poorly writen rules to gain a benifit from "moving quickly" while barely moving.

Ice_can wrote:
RAW you can do exactly what your suggesting, however don't be surprised if someone gets salty at you for abusing GW's poorly writen rules to gain a benifit from "moving quickly" while barely moving.

The only time I use it is for my darkshrouds as they are not intended to shoot really and for bike units who are on objectives who need to add an invun save to keep them on the objectives longer.

I don't really think it is game breaking and is a nice little rule for ravenwing units.

 p5freak wrote:
You can advance and stand still. You count as having advanced, and you get your 4+ inv sv <Snip>You also suffer -1 to hit when shooting an assault weapon.

This. you can advance and not move, you have then advanced and have all the rules that go with advancing.

(makes no sense, but thats[sic] how the rules are).

Neither do Lascannons, or Melta weapons, or hover tanks...

This is a Sci-Fi game. it doesnt have to make real world sense.

If you try to base 40K in reality, you're gonna have a bad time.

Ice_can wrote:
RAW you can do exactly what your suggesting, however don't be surprised if someone gets salty at you for abusing GW's poorly writen rules to gain a benifit from "moving quickly" while barely moving.

Who says they are just standing still?

Maybe they are quickly doing donuts in the parking lot...

.

If you have moved 6" forward and then 6" in reverze, you'd have moved 12" and ended up in the same spot.

Ice_can wrote:
RAW you can do exactly what your suggesting, however don't be surprised if someone gets salty at you for abusing GW's poorly writen rules to gain a benifit from "moving quickly" while barely moving.

So fast zig-zagging around isn't fast moving? Zig-zagging generally results going less than if you were going fast straight line...

I said it's RAW allowed it was just a friendly warning that, I can forsee an opponent calling you TFG, unsportsmanlike behaviour etc.
Especially if it's outwith a competitive event.

Ice_can wrote:
I said it's RAW allowed it was just a friendly warning that, I can forsee an opponent calling you TFG, unsportsmanlike behaviour etc.
Especially if it's outwith a competitive event.

to be honest you are right. I have done it in 3 games and in 2 of the games my opponents have questioned if it works if I don't actually move. I just tell them it's part of the rules and they accept it but you can see they find it a bit strange.

Ice_can wrote:
I said it's RAW allowed it was just a friendly warning that, I can forsee[sic] an opponent calling you TFG, unsportsmanlike behaviour[sic] etc.
Especially if it's outwith a competitive event.

Why?

If you move 6" left, then 6" right... how is that "TFG, unsportsmanlike behaviour[sic] etc."?

If they call you out for 0" movement as being illegal, just nudge your model .00001". If they call you out on that .00001" movement as not being a legal move, pack up and tell them "good game sir." Not worth wasting time with someone whos hell bent on winning that they're not recognizing a legal move as not being legal.

 skchsan wrote:
If they call you out for 0" movement as being illegal, just nudge your model .00001". If they call you out on that .00001" movement as not being a legal move, pack up and tell them "good game sir." Not worth wasting time with someone whos hell bent on winning that they're not recognizing a legal move as not being legal.

I would say you would have to enforce some movement being mandatory.
Otherwise nothing stops you advancing while in Close Combat which is insanely broken.

Ice_can wrote:

 skchsan wrote:
If they call you out for 0" movement as being illegal, just nudge your model .00001". If they call you out on that .00001" movement as not being a legal move, pack up and tell them "good game sir." Not worth wasting time with someone whos hell bent on winning that they're not recognizing a legal move as not being legal.

I would say you would have to enforce some movement being mandatory.

But the rules do not say that movement is mandatory.

The rules just say that a model can be moved in any direction, to a distance, in inches, equal to or less than the Move characteristic on its datasheet.

So no mandatory move (unless the model has a minimum speed listed on its datasheet).

Ice_can wrote:
Otherwise nothing stops you advancing while in Close Combat which is insanely broken.

Except the rules do indeed stop you from advancing if you are in close combat. Read the Falling Back section of the movement phase (barring any special unit ability that may override this general rule of course).

 Kcalehc wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
Otherwise nothing stops you advancing while in Close Combat which is insanely broken.

Except the rules do indeed stop you from advancing if you are in close combat. Read the Falling Back section of the movement phase (barring any special unit ability that may override this general rule of course).

But if your not moving ie haven't moved and can still gain an advantage from rolling the advancing dice, your not falling back, you also didn't move so don't have to end your move outwith 1 inch.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DeathReaper wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 skchsan wrote:
If they call you out for 0" movement as being illegal, just nudge your model .00001". If they call you out on that .00001" movement as not being a legal move, pack up and tell them "good game sir." Not worth wasting time with someone whos hell bent on winning that they're not recognizing a legal move as not being legal.

I would say you would have to enforce some movement being mandatory.

But the rules do not say that movement is mandatory.

The rules just say that a model can be moved in any direction, to a distance, in inches, equal to or less than the Move characteristic on its datasheet.

So no mandatory move (unless the model has a minimum speed listed on its datasheet).

So your OK with people advancing while remaining in combat?

I mean... What would be the point of advancing in CC?

First off, I'm pretty sure you can't (you can't make a normal move, I think, in CC, you can only Fall Back if you want to move) and second off, the only things that benefit from advancing are pretty much exclusive to the shooting phase.

Ice_can wrote:

 Kcalehc wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
Otherwise nothing stops you advancing while in Close Combat which is insanely broken.

Except the rules do indeed stop you from advancing if you are in close combat. Read the Falling Back section of the movement phase (barring any special unit ability that may override this general rule of course).

But if your not moving ie haven't moved and can still gain an advantage from rolling the advancing dice, your not falling back, you also didn't move so don't have to end your move outwith 1 inch.

There's a difference between remaining stationary (i.e., choosing not to activate the unit during the Movement phase) and making a move of 0".

 JNAProductions wrote:
I mean... What would be the point of advancing in CC?

If ravenwing bikers could advance in CC, and stand still, or move 0", they would get a 4+ inv sv from their jink rule.

 p5freak wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
I mean... What would be the point of advancing in CC?

If ravenwing bikers could advance in CC, and stand still, or move 0", they would get a 4+ inv sv from their jink rule.

...against all shooting attacks. So what would be the point?
I mean, they could do so just to gain it if the opponent in melee is killed or falls back, I guess, but if the RW unit stays in melee, it does nothing for them in that phase.

-

 Galef wrote:
...against all shooting attacks. So what would be the point?
I mean, they could do so just to gain it if the opponent in melee is killed or falls back, I guess, but if the RW unit stays in melee, it does nothing for them in that phase.

Thats true. But its free for them, they would have no disadvantage. But they cant do it, so no reason to discuss it.

Advancing only adds inches to your movement but you can't move or declare a move if you are in combat and therefore you cant advance whilst in combat. I can declare I am advancing when not in combat and choose to not move because that is legal.

Ice_can wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 skchsan wrote:
If they call you out for 0" movement as being illegal, just nudge your model .00001". If they call you out on that .00001" movement as not being a legal move, pack up and tell them "good game sir." Not worth wasting time with someone whos hell bent on winning that they're not recognizing a legal move as not being legal.

I would say you would have to enforce some movement being mandatory.

But the rules do not say that movement is mandatory.

The rules just say that a model can be moved in any direction, to a distance, in inches, equal to or less than the Move characteristic on its datasheet.

So no mandatory move (unless the model has a minimum speed listed on its datasheet).

So your OK with people advancing while remaining in combat?

Since advancing while remaining in combat is breaking rules, of course I am not okay with that, as it is breaking rules.

There's a difference between Remaining stationary, and moving normally (even if you are in the same position when you end your move because you can move "equal to or less than the Move characteristic" (Battle Primer Page 3, Emphasis mine).

40K Battle Primer Page 3 wrote:Units starting the Movement phase within 1" of an enemy unit can either remain stationary or Fall Back.

You can not activate the unit during the Movement phase if they are within 1 inch of an enemy unit, unless you are falling back.

Which would indicate that remaining stationary and moving are mutually exclusive.
If your advancing you cannot remain stationary. You can move .01 of an inch but remaining stationary is different.

Ice_can wrote:
Which would indicate that remaining stationary and moving are mutually exclusive.
If your advancing you cannot remain stationary. You can move .01 of an inch but remaining stationary is different.

You can advance and not move because advancing just adds extra movement to your unit. We then follow the rules for movement and under the rules you don't need to move all your movement or indeed any of it. SO yes you can advance and stay stationary in the game of 40k.

You arguing about whether you can advance in combat has no relevance to whether you can advance and stay still when not in combat. If you can/can't advance in combat it wont affect the fact that a unit can decalre an advance and not move.

Ice_can wrote:
Which would indicate that remaining stationary and moving are mutually exclusive.
If your advancing you cannot remain stationary. You can move .01 of an inch but remaining stationary is different.

This is false. Moving is up to your Move characteristic which does include moving 0". You can remain stationary and gain certain benefits, and you can Advance and move 0" and gain certain other benefits and a few restrictions as well.

 Ghaz wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
Which would indicate that remaining stationary and moving are mutually exclusive.
If your advancing you cannot remain stationary. You can move .01 of an inch but remaining stationary is different.

This is false. Moving is up to your Move characteristic which does include moving 0". You can remain stationary and gain certain benefits, and you can Advance and move 0" and gain certain other benefits and a few restrictions as well.

Exactly, Moving "equal to or less than than the Move characteristic." includes moving zero inches.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
Which would indicate that remaining stationary and moving are mutually exclusive.
If your advancing you cannot remain stationary. You can move .01 of an inch but remaining stationary is different.

This is false. Moving is up to your Move characteristic which does include moving 0". You can remain stationary and gain certain benefits, and you can Advance and move 0" and gain certain other benefits and a few restrictions as well.

Exactly, Moving "equal to or less than than the Move characteristic." includes moving zero inches.

Which is proven by the errata GW made to the Grinding Advance rule. If Moving 0" was the same as Not Moving, there would be no need to for the errata.

You can advance and mive 0" but you will count as having moved.