Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

They seem pretty solid to me (non GK player).

 Ratius wrote:
They seem pretty solid to me (non GK player).

Smites on a 3+.

Another psychic discipline and their own litanies.

Better psy weapons.

I do believe they're getting what they need.

Seem more glass hammer like - an upping of survivability would have I thought helped them out more given their cost - say a kine shield giving an invulnerable save, or a chance to ignore damage.

Well cover without cover and - 1 to hit in cover
Would call that more survivability

Still trash tier compared to new SM. Hopefully there are a TON of unannounced additions to this.

Lol wtf no? Noone want second iron hands game killing gak

Do by psy weapons they mean psycannons and stuff? because the psycannons are really bad weapons, even with the point drops. -1 to hit for being heavy, few shots. And you won't have more then 1 per 5 models, unless they are paladins. IH get a re-roll of one on their entire army, as an extra bonus among others.

But maybe there is some way to stack those or something.

The cover thing is nice, until you face an army that just ignores cover outright.

Chaplain stuff and the 2MW smite seem nice. Specialy if GW lets us extend the range easier.

The nemezis weapon one is horrible. There just isn't enough attacks for it to make a large impact. not to mention reaching melee being kind of a problem for most GK units.


I wonder if the chaplains get access to the normal marine litanies too. Because some of those are really nice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

T1nk4bell wrote:
Lol wtf no? Noone want second iron hands game killing gak

read the rules again.

Pancakey wrote:
Still trash tier compared to new SM. Hopefully there are a TON of unannounced additions to this.

Yes, there will be additional Relics, Psi powers and so on. Obviously.

And litanys and more stratagems

No move/shoot/fight/something twice? No auto 76 hits? I’m sorry, I thought this was 8th edtion!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nekooni wrote:

Pancakey wrote:
Still trash tier compared to new SM. Hopefully there are a TON of unannounced additions to this.

Yes, there will be additional Relics, Psi powers and so on. Obviously.

Don’t they usually “preview” for he best of the best?

Pancakey wrote:
No move/shoot/fight/something twice? No auto 76 hits? I’m sorry, I thought this was 8th edtion!

It's a preview showing like 1/6th of the stuff they get. FFS.

Pancakey wrote:
Don’t they usually “preview” for he best of the best?

I don't think so. They just show some bits and pieces. Not sure though.

The Psi power is essential to understand how the Tides work, so they probably picked that one simply because of that, for example.

For examples of when they didn't preview the best, the BT preview had the suck-tacular LRC stratagem rather than the no-fallback or run-and-charge stratagem.

I'm happy The Shrouding is back in some form. I'd be happier if they went back and fixed some of the bad statline decisions (1A Strike Squads? Really?) but it looks like they're trying more than they've tried in the last three editions of GK rules.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
I'm happy The Shrouding is back in some form. I'd be happier if they went back and fixed some of the bad statline decisions (1A Strike Squads? Really?) but it looks like they're trying more than they've tried in the last three editions of GK rules.

Don't GK benefit from the Shock Assault rule, too? For my Salamanders that helped a lot, tbh.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
For examples of when they didn't preview the best, the BT preview had the suck-tacular LRC stratagem rather than the no-fallback or run-and-charge stratagem.

Lets hope GK will have some aweso.... ahh who am I kidding. GK prolly gonna get squatted in CA 2020. I can see it now...

“Redace all your grE knight models cust to “0” and threw those in the trush.” With faq coming soon after for clarity.

yes, but think about it. A strike costs like an intercessor, but comes with 1W, a termintor costs even more. Kind of hard either in to melee range.

Karol wrote:
yes, but think about it. A strike costs like an intercessor, but comes with 1W, a termintor costs even more. Kind of hard either in to melee range.

Well, and Strike Squads can Deep Strike, are Psykers and have better melee weapons - they're not just 1W Intercessors, just like how Intercessors aren't overpriced Strike Squads that lack Deep Strike and Psi.
I get your point, but it's not that simple.

Karol wrote:
Do by psy weapons they mean psycannons and stuff? because the psycannons are really bad weapons, even with the point drops. -1 to hit for being heavy, few shots. And you won't have more then 1 per 5 models, unless they are paladins. IH get a re-roll of one on their entire army, as an extra bonus among others.

But maybe there is some way to stack those or something.

The cover thing is nice, until you face an army that just ignores cover outright.

Chaplain stuff and the 2MW smite seem nice. Specialy if GW lets us extend the range easier.

The nemezis weapon one is horrible. There just isn't enough attacks for it to make a large impact. not to mention reaching melee being kind of a problem for most GK units.


I wonder if the chaplains get access to the normal marine litanies too. Because some of those are really nice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

T1nk4bell wrote:
Lol wtf no? Noone want second iron hands game killing gak

read the rules again.

It seems like the general strategy is to start turn 1 with auto-cover and -1 to hit in cover (which, incidentally, you would still get versus something like IF, since it's an additional rule that grants you -1 to hit if you're on a terrain feature, it's not technically "Cover". Then use the power to swap to something else.

There are other rules that interact like this - Drukhari have a stratagem that grants +1 to a unit's armor save but only if they're on or in terrain, and they have stated you can still use that stratagem vs IF or other ignore cover stuff, even though you don't get the initial +1 to armor from "benefit of cover".

What you want to use second turn seems dependent on your army setup. psilencers with S5 and D3+1 damage is pretty neat. S8 and D2 might make psycannons worthwhile. But either way you'll want your list to have a ton of them. D2 smites definitely seem like the default turn 2 choice, unless you're against like Guard or some other infantry spam list, in which case you wanna stayyyy in cover all game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nekooni wrote:

Karol wrote:
yes, but think about it. A strike costs like an intercessor, but comes with 1W, a termintor costs even more. Kind of hard either in to melee range.

Well, and Strike Squads can Deep Strike, are Psykers and have better melee weapons - they're not just 1W Intercessors, just like how Intercessors aren't overpriced Strike Squads that lack Deep Strike and Psi.
I get your point, but it's not that simple.

And they come with storm bolters, and they have a force weapon...it's not really a good comparison...

Pancakey wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
For examples of when they didn't preview the best, the BT preview had the suck-tacular LRC stratagem rather than the no-fallback or run-and-charge stratagem.

Lets hope GK will have some aweso.... ahh who am I kidding. GK prolly gonna get squatted in CA 2020. I can see it now...

“Redace all your grE knight models cust to “0” and threw those in the trush.” With faq coming soon after for clarity.

Your posts are just pure gems.

+1 Strength in 8E isn’t even worthy of being called a bonus. Should be +1 bonus to Wound.

Don’t think the changes will be enough for non-GK players to elevate the army out of “trash tier”. I imagine most GK players will be happy with the changes, though.

If the GK unit sits in cover then opponent army is going to see it, unless someone is playing ITC rules with its first floor bunkers.

If a shoty marine army kills an eldar army with its -1 to hit or better, then I think it is going to be able to kill a GK army too.
And an eldar plane is tougher to then a bunch of marines.

By the way am not sad about the buff, I think having them is much better then not having them. But they seem like 2 years too late, to make the army really good.

I don;t have any psilancers, so am not sure how good they are going to be, but psycanons even at str 8 and D2 don't have to be really impactful. not when there is one per 5 models in the squads.


the rest stuff is interesting. The relic staff seems fun, and the chaplain stuff could be fun. Am not sure there is a chaplain model legal to buy though.

the_scotsman wrote:
And they come with storm bolters, and they have a force weapon...it's not really a good comparison...

Exactly. They're both Troops, so there's that at least.

nekooni wrote:

Karol wrote:
yes, but think about it. A strike costs like an intercessor, but comes with 1W, a termintor costs even more. Kind of hard either in to melee range.

Well, and Strike Squads can Deep Strike, are Psykers and have better melee weapons - they're not just 1W Intercessors, just like how Intercessors aren't overpriced Strike Squads that lack Deep Strike and Psi.
I get your point, but it's not that simple.

Intercessors are much better then strikes. they have double resiliance. dead units don't have rules, and strikes die twice as fast. Also the guns intercessors have coupled with doctrines make each intercessor unit comperable to a strike unit affected by a 2CP GK stratagem, for free.

having nemezis weapons doesn't matter much. It doesn't help vs really stronger melee units, and vs against everything else, when or if, you reach melee you don't have enough attacks and models to really use them.

If I charge a unit of termintors in a unit of 5 intercessors, that costs less, and it has a vet sgt with a hammer, my terminators are going to die before they get to kill the intercessors. And they cost almost twice as many points.

Pancakey wrote:
No move/shoot/fight/something twice? No auto 76 hits? I’m sorry, I thought this was 8th edtion!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nekooni wrote:

Pancakey wrote:
Still trash tier compared to new SM. Hopefully there are a TON of unannounced additions to this.

Yes, there will be additional Relics, Psi powers and so on. Obviously.

Don’t they usually “preview” for he best of the best?

They preview the stuff that they think is exciting, and since GW has no idea how the rest of us play the game...

I don't see how any of those rules make termintors or paladins more exiting options. It probably makes strikes better though.

But to be honest, it is hard to make stuff exiting after the few marine previews. so I do 2 MW on a baby smite, is 100% upgrade, but looks funny when next to something like 70+ auto hits, unkillable units or stealth centurions.


Still better to have the rules, then not to have them. Am just not sure how this is suppose to help GK be on the same tier as IH or even RG.

Comparing any new rules to the SM supplements is going to be a disappointment. Nobody got more than a solid buff from Psychic Awakening. The SM supplements are like 3rd edition supercharged codex creep.

Grey Knights are space marines. Plus GK were bad all 8th ed, and from others said they weren't that good in prior editions either. So considering that marines weren't considered good in 8th, and GK were worse then marines all 8th, GK should get better rule buffs then marine got. Specialy as the CA changes were rather cosmetic.

Pancakey wrote:
Still trash tier compared to new SM. Hopefully there are a TON of unannounced additions to this.

text removed.

Wee bit OTT here.
reds8n

, i mean, we got psi doctrines, what else did you expect?
To all those not wallowing in self pity, this is a solid buff and they addressed nearly all of our shortcomings, be grateful.

D2 smites definitely seem like the default turn 2 choice, unless you're against like Guard or some other infantry spam list, in which case you wanna stayyyy in cover all game.

... with 24'' range weapons.