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Made in at
Dakka Veteran




I am not a necron player, but I am really impressed with the design quality and volume of the new necron releases. It's really cool and refreshing to see a xenos faction get so much attention and have their range massively expanded. Also most of the new kits really do look fantastic, at least imo.

Which brings me to the main point of this post. I think this necron release is grounds for optimism that gw is able and willing to give love to xenos factions.
I for one am optimistic, that we are going to see a massive overhaul of craftworlds in the not so distant future, maybe even in 2021, which is extremely overdue.

   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





I'd want to see the rules before proclaiming that all it well for Xenos in a Marine infected world.
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator




Thank you for a breath of fresh air, I agree that GW can and does work wonders, hopefully 2021 will be a year of mixed and unexpected releases.
   
Made in gb
Instigating Incubi




The dark behind the eyes.

Wake me when DE get their HQ section back.

Or when Corsairs exist again.

Because those are my benchmarks for optimism.

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick





They're the poster boy NPC Faction this time around by virtue of featuring in the new starter sets. I won't hold my breath for any more mega releases on the Necron's scale for some time yet.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I TOO AM HAPPY AND OPTIMISTIC FOR XENOS


I mean its a message that gets somewhat lost on Dakka (heck the first response in this thread is already starting to slip toward doom and several others are well beyond twilight and into the gloom).

Sure GW didn't give every Xenos player everything they wanted in one release; but darn it Necrons are getting a fantastic uplift and addition to their range. They'll sit beside tyranids as one of the Xenos factions that's really at the upper edge of things (and I say that knowing Tyranids have a few more finecast to lose and could really do with some new gaunts that don't have split heads to assemble).

   
Made in at
Dakka Veteran




 Arbitrator wrote:
They're the poster boy NPC Faction this time around by virtue of featuring in the new starter sets. I won't hold my breath for any more mega releases on the Necron's scale for some time yet.


Why not? Indomitus sold Extremely well and not just because of the marine part. The new necron releases have been met with almost universal praise.
If they release a craftworlds VS imperial guard box with brand new plastic aspect warriors and guard regiments respectively, it would be like printing money.
   
Made in us
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought






Best Necron Troop, T5 1W. - Best SM Troop, T5 3W

It's great Necrons are getting attention and new models and all, but gosh is it rough seeing a faction once known for it's incredibly tough troops just dwindle into a horde in comparison to what Marines can field.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Arbitrator wrote:
They're the poster boy NPC Faction this time around by virtue of featuring in the new starter sets. I won't hold my breath for any more mega releases on the Necron's scale for some time yet.


Yep. DG got tons of releases at the start. Didn't stop 8e being marine after marine after marine with marines getting best rules and most models.

Marines is GW's cash cow. If you want GW game where one faction doesn't dominate AOS is only option. 40k is all about marines. That's the way things are. When it isn't that's the day GW goes down.

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
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Made in at
Dakka Veteran




 Insectum7 wrote:
Best Necron Troop, T5 1W. - Best SM Troop, T5 3W

It's great Necrons are getting attention and new models and all, but gosh is it rough seeing a faction once known for it's incredibly tough troops just dwindle into a horde in comparison to what Marines can field.


Yeah, I know marines are the top dog right now and get the best stuff. Trust me, I'm a custodes player and the gap between my boys and marines starts to become practically non existent, so I feel your pain. But we haven't even seen the new necron codex yet. They could still be incredibly tough due to the new rules they get.
   
Made in gb
Wicked Canoptek Wraith




UK

 Insectum7 wrote:
Best Necron Troop, T5 1W. - Best SM Troop, T5 3W

It's great Necrons are getting attention and new models and all, but gosh is it rough seeing a faction once known for it's incredibly tough troops just dwindle into a horde in comparison to what Marines can field.


Okay but Admech Kataphrons have existed for a few years now. They're T5 and 3W
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor




Tacoma, WA, USA

 Insectum7 wrote:
Best Necron Troop, T5 1W. - Best SM Troop, T5 3W

It's great Necrons are getting attention and new models and all, but gosh is it rough seeing a faction once known for it's incredibly tough troops just dwindle into a horde in comparison to what Marines can field.
I didn't realize you could sum up everything you need to know about a unit with its T and W scores. I guess everyone without a T5 3W Troop model should just hang up their 40K spurs.

Or we can wait to see the points cost along with special rules. If AOD gets worst while Reanimation Protocols get better and the points are balanced, it could be fine.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Bosskelot wrote:
Okay but Admech Kataphrons have existed for a few years now. They're T5 and 3W


Yeah. And they're 35 points a model and are BS4
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

I’m not too enthusiastic.
New Necron models are great but their rules are mediocre.

Former moderator 40kOnline

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Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 wuestenfux wrote:
I’m not too enthusiastic.
New Necron models are great but their rules are mediocre.


Bit early without the protocols known.
But sofar i'd agree with you

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
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 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Annandale, VA

Bosskelot wrote:Okay but Admech Kataphrons have existed for a few years now. They're T5 and 3W


alextroy wrote:I didn't realize you could sum up everything you need to know about a unit with its T and W scores. I guess everyone without a T5 3W Troop model should just hang up their 40K spurs.

Or we can wait to see the points cost along with special rules. If AOD gets worst while Reanimation Protocols get better and the points are balanced, it could be fine.


I think you guys rather missed the point entirely. There was a time when the basic Necron Warrior was just as tough as a Space Marine and had RP (then called We'll Be Back) on top of it; while Immortals were even tougher.

Now while Marines are going up to W2 across the board, it looks like Immortals are staying at W1- with Marines also now getting a new troops choice that's T5/W3. Immortals have trouble going toe-to-toe with Intercessors at this point, let alone new Gravis troops.

Insectum is lamenting Necrons being further turned into a horde army while Marines become even more elite. Kataphrons and overall balance are beside the point.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Well lets not forget when Necrons first came out all they had was warriors, scarabs, immortals and a lord. A few months later a destroyer and then the monolith.

For a long time they were an elite style army because they basically didn't have much. Even if in the lore their tombs where releasing thousands of warriors at a time.




As the line has changed and gained more options so too have the unit roles shifted. We've seen warriors get a bit less powerful, but work better in larger groups. At the same time we see new elite style units starting to take specific niches above them.


It's just a general evolution of the army. If anything weaker warriors fits with the lore and the idea of vast ranks emerging from their tombs.

   
Made in us
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought






 Overread wrote:
Well lets not forget when Necrons first came out all they had was warriors, scarabs, immortals and a lord. A few months later a destroyer and then the monolith.
Correction, they didn't even have Immortals until 3rd edition. Necrons first appeared in 2nd edition, and a Necron Warrior was T5 with a 2+ save and an early incarnation of the Resurrection ability. This is in comparison to a Space Marines T4, 3+ at the time. A Warrior was 44 points to a SMs 30.

In 3rd ed, a Warrior was 18 points to the SM 15, and an Immortal was 28 and well worth it.

 Overread wrote:
It's just a general evolution of the army. If anything weaker warriors fits with the lore and the idea of vast ranks emerging from their tombs.
There is nothing stopping a never-ending horde from being made up of elites. See Tyranid Warriors.

Here's my deal. What's a scarier nemesis?

A: Legions of metal skeletons that Space Marines can kick their way through.
or
B: Trillions of hyper-advanced robots where even the lowest form of them is more than a match for humanity's best troops.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps




 wuestenfux wrote:
I’m not too enthusiastic.
New Necron models are great but their rules are mediocre.


Got to admit, the first look at 'command protocols' hasn't filled me with optimism.

A couple will probably be easy to work out what turn you should assign them to...
If army list has 'Noble' ->secret assignment -> 6" range from Character (noble or not) = (situational bonus A) OR (situational bonus B), UNLESS dynasty=relevant command=both...

that's a lot more fiddly than it needs to be.
Maybe the shooting, CC and resilience protocols (assuming they're that straightforward) are completely awesome, but +3" auras/abilities OR fall back and shoot with a penalty isn't exactly a 'Wow!' moment.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor




Tacoma, WA, USA

 Insectum7 wrote:
Here's my deal. What's a scarier nemesis?

A: Legions of metal skeletons that Space Marines can kick their way through.
or
B: Trillions of hyper-advanced robots where even the lowest form of them is more than a match for humanity's best troops.
But the question is what does GW want the army to be?

A: A small elite force of unstoppable robots you can barely takedown?
B: A wave of robots with esoteric weapons that won't stay down despite you killing them time and time again?

I know the second sounds more like the Necrons in the background.
   
Made in gb
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest





Stevenage, UK

I'd rather a combination of both. A small elite force of unstoppable robots you can barely take down... that won't stay down.
That's what they were in 2nd and 3rd, and I miss that style of Necron. They lost all that when their fluff was expanded out... I appreciate the lore had to go somewhere to justify expanding the range, but a horde/wave army was the wrong step in my opinion.

To put it another way... they used to be Space Terminators (the movie variety). Now they're more like Space Tomb Kings, and unfortunately they lost a lot of mystery and scariness in the process.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/13 23:16:34


"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch  
   
Made in au
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





 Insectum7 wrote:
Best Necron Troop, T5 1W. - Best SM Troop, T5 3W

It's great Necrons are getting attention and new models and all, but gosh is it rough seeing a faction once known for it's incredibly tough troops just dwindle into a horde in comparison to what Marines can field.


If you come back with RP you do so with full wounds right? Having a regenerating front line trooper with multiple wounds, a good gun and a cheap cost would be a bit of a pain and cause some bitching in the marine camps. Especially if you could buff the RP rolls. Hell you can still give wraiths RP for a turn with a strat right? If you rolled well for that it'd lead to the opponent pulling out their hair.
   
Made in us
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought






 alextroy wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Here's my deal. What's a scarier nemesis?

A: Legions of metal skeletons that Space Marines can kick their way through.
or
B: Trillions of hyper-advanced robots where even the lowest form of them is more than a match for humanity's best troops.
But the question is what does GW want the army to be?

A: A small elite force of unstoppable robots you can barely takedown?
B: A wave of robots with esoteric weapons that won't stay down despite you killing them time and time again?

I know the second sounds more like the Necrons in the background.
In 3rd edition they managed to allow both. Waves of unstoppable, elite robots was a real possibility. My Necron army of the day outnumbered my SM army, even though each infantry model was more expensive. The reason was because my Space Marines had more "mid-range" units (Dreadnoughts, Terminators, Vehicles), while Necrons were encouraged to skew towards larger numbers because of the Phase Out rule. So I had more Necron bodies, and one Monolith.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
cody.d. wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Best Necron Troop, T5 1W. - Best SM Troop, T5 3W

It's great Necrons are getting attention and new models and all, but gosh is it rough seeing a faction once known for it's incredibly tough troops just dwindle into a horde in comparison to what Marines can field.
If you come back with RP you do so with full wounds right? Having a regenerating front line trooper with multiple wounds, a good gun and a cheap cost would be a bit of a pain and cause some bitching in the marine camps. Especially if you could buff the RP rolls. Hell you can still give wraiths RP for a turn with a strat right? If you rolled well for that it'd lead to the opponent pulling out their hair.
Oh noes. . . don't make the marine players angry?

I'm not sure how RP is going to work out in 9th, but the fact remains that Crons had tougher models than Space Marines before and it didn't break the bank.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/13 23:33:10


And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

It was also because Necrons just didn't have much else to put on the table either. Swarming warriors was the theme because that as basically one of the very few options you actually had to build the army with.

A fair few AoS armies are the same, yes they work well using certain units en-mass. Heck Daughters of Khaine were brokenly powerful for a while with armies comprised almost entirely of Witch Aelves.

Thing is they don't have 10 different infantry models (in fact they've 2 which come from the same kit - three if they take a certain general and can enable one of their snake variations to be battleline).

I'd fully expect in the future that if GW dropped another dozen models on DoK; that we'd see their stats shift and perhaps see their infantry change from swarming to elite or somesuch.



Part of GW's balance is to decide what they want armies to look like. Mono-armies of warriors is perhaps not what they are after; so they are toning down their power in comparison to rising up others. Otherwise everyone would just take legions of warriors and all those new cool models might not sell or might only sell in very small amounts.

   
Made in ie
Regular Dakkanaut






Well this was a fun thread. Positive vibes lasted all of 3 posts.

GG Dakka!

   
Made in us
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought






 Overread wrote:
It was also because Necrons just didn't have much else to put on the table either. Swarming warriors was the theme because that as basically one of the very few options you actually had to build the army with.

A fair few AoS armies are the same, yes they work well using certain units en-mass. Heck Daughters of Khaine were brokenly powerful for a while with armies comprised almost entirely of Witch Aelves.

Thing is they don't have 10 different infantry models (in fact they've 2 which come from the same kit - three if they take a certain general and can enable one of their snake variations to be battleline).

I'd fully expect in the future that if GW dropped another dozen models on DoK; that we'd see their stats shift and perhaps see their infantry change from swarming to elite or somesuch.

Part of GW's balance is to decide what they want armies to look like. Mono-armies of warriors is perhaps not what they are after; so they are toning down their power in comparison to rising up others. Otherwise everyone would just take legions of warriors and all those new cool models might not sell or might only sell in very small amounts.
There is zero need to make troops less individually powerful in order to make room for other, more powerful models. See exhibit A: Space Marines, an army which just gave a big boost to their standard troops while also releasing new, more powerful options. Warriors and Immortals could have stayed SM level and higher without killing the design space for other units. Nor would that mean that people would necessarily only take armies of Warriors, either. And if they did, what's your beef with that? Shouldn't the game allow for some individual expression in army composition?

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Sentineil wrote:
Well this was a fun thread. Positive vibes lasted all of 3 posts.

GG Dakka!


Positive vibes are only justified if GW is doing a good job.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Insectum7 wrote:
There is zero need to make troops less individually powerful in order to make room for other, more powerful models. See exhibit A: Space Marines, an army which just gave a big boost to their standard troops while also releasing new, more powerful options. Warriors and Immortals could have stayed SM level and higher without killing the design space for other units. Nor would that mean that people would necessarily only take armies of Warriors, either. And if they did, what's your beef with that? Shouldn't the game allow for some individual expression in army composition?


The difference is that one of these is Space Marines, and the other is not.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/14 01:30:34


 
   
Made in us
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin




Roswell, GA

I think the new models look great. I was pretty positive up until the protocols. I’m just not sure that is something I wanted to have layered on. I guess I was wanting more consistency over a them.

I’m still on the positive side but time will tell.

I would love for the monolith to be good, I have always wanted one.
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

I don't play Necrons, but I'm excited to see them get cool new stuff. Their new model releases have been amazing IMO, almost enough so to make me start an army of them. The jury's still out on whether or not they'll actually be good on the tabletop, but so far I see no reason for doom and gloom. GW doesn't always preview the really good stratagems/relics/special rules, so I'd be willing to be there's going to be some good stuff in the codex when it drops.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 9/25/20, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~900 | Space Wolves: ~3800
Astra Militarum: ~800 | Officio Assassinorum: ~600 | Imperial Knights: ~1300 | Sisters of Battle: ~1900
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2019: 62 | Total models painted in 2020: 36 | Current main painting project: Indomitus Marines, as Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
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I am also happy to see a Xeno faction receive so many and such varied options. I am especially happy to see redone versions of old kits, that is something I really like to see that does not happen too frequently. I know why, but I still like seeing it.

Consider; Games Workshop rules not so much games but as toolboxes for players to craft an experience from, and open/narrative/matched play just examples of how things can be put together. 
   
 
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