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I feel like I asked this before, but now that we are further into 9th, I had a thought about asking it again. As for releases yet planned obviously we have no clue, also GW is eager to pump out their new Primaris line of cash cows, so obviously that skews it, also the COVID epidemic, but on the whole: How has the 9th roadmap married up with previous editions for released factions? Is it odd that we've gone through 4-5 factions released without a single Xenos faction? Or without anything non-astartes? Not even the big cash cow factions like Knights or Guard....
   
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It is pretty normal for Xenos to be ignored, yeah. Around the end of 3rd edition they started producing more and more Imperial factions and subfactions, and they also redid Chaos back then so they got two codices in one edition.

It has certainly gotten worse, to my mind. Stuff like Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves and Black Templars used to be in "mini dexes" but in 5e they started getting entire codices to themselves and a lot more unique units. This has lead to most of the armies in the game being variations on humans in power armour.

Seems incredibly popular and people are aggressive in defending the status quo so I doubt anything will change. They have to primarise all those tasty power armour subfactions after all, and they have started branching out and doing chaos power armour subfactions too.
I think Xenos are always 4th tier in GW's mind. Sometimes one or other Xenos faction (usually Eldar or Tau) will get to be powerful because it acts as a counter to the heavily "humans in power armour" based metagame, but that is broadly unintentional in my opinion.

40K exists to deliver a power fantasy for power armour players. Chaos exists to be the antagonist for the "good guy" power armour factions. Imperial Guard and Mechanicus exist to be the plucky sidekicks to the good guy power armour factions.
Xenos are like 4th tier NPC factions that exist to provide background flavour for the power armour factions to beat up to prove how tough they are. That is their only real function, as well as snagging a few players who are not interested in humans in power armour and are tricked into thinking they will be playing a faction on equal footing.

   
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I expect they will release a codex for every single faction and add even more - slaanesh and/or khorne marines, probably a line of new subfaction books.

At some point I would expect them to start up a new guard line. Depending on how they feel the sisters are going there may also be an expansion in the works there.

But the safe money is on more marines.


 Da Boss wrote:
Around the end of 3rd edition they started producing more and more Imperial factions and subfactions
Wouldn't be 40k if the sisters didn't get a book to herald the end of the edition :p
There were four '3.5' books - guard, dark angels, chaos, and dark eldar. Other that the inquisition they didn't release any completely new books for two full years AFAIK (3e crons in july 2002 to 4e marines nov 2004), don't think we'll see that kind of pause again.
   
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But the status-quo HAS changed, at least slightly. The codex plus supplement model might not be what you hoped for, but it is far from maintaining the status quo. I agree it is not a huge change in terms of the model line supported, and a dex plus supplement still means more marine factions, so I completely see where you are coming from, but it is a change.

I would also love to see an expansion of the Xenos lines, both in terms of expanding existing factions and introducing AT LEAST one more Xenos faction. I think it would be great to have all Xenos factions in the same place as Aeldari are at, with two or three main factions and one or two smaller factions that can help thematically unite the more standalone factions.

I can easily see how Necrons could be divided up into, perhaps, those following the original fluff and those following the more modern fluff, and a Flayed One subfaction.

Perhaps also Orks could have a Grots subfaction, and possibly even a Speed Freaks supplement, instead of keeping them in the main book. A Stompa supplement would be possible, in comparison to Imperial Knights. It might even be a good seller!

Harder to see where to go with Tyranids beyond the already-present GSC, which drag in the Astra Militarum.

Tau are an obvious one for several supplements, or even just one, which details Kroot, Demiurg, Vespids, etc. That is actually a supplement I'd get fully on board with, if the models were good enough.

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It's honestly tough to say. If I were in charge of a business like GW's right now, where I have two types of product: A line of books that are basically mandatory purchases for people who wish to continue playing with their existing miniatures, and a line of models that people can choose or choose not to buy. And then a global pandemic hit basically guaranteeing me terrible sales IF I can actually get everything I need together to ship product (big "if" there) basically what I'd do is make sure I shuffle all the releases that involved just a mandatory book up to the front of the schedule, and just try to wait out the no-sales period.

The second GW had to actually put out a release with a model beyond the sm/necron stuff (which we can safely assume they had all their ducks in a row for the launch of the edition well in advance) then boom, they delayed it, AND they announced they were cutting the release frequency by half. GW is desperately trying not to just toss model releases into the covid no-sales blender. Every month they can stretch things out is a month closer to a full deployment of a vaccine that will allow them to sell product again.

People talk about marines as a cash cow, but the new release of Codex: Deathwatch with 0 new models is not a cash cow release, it's a guaranteed small return on investment with the release of a book that a certain fraction of the playerbase is required to buy - even if they don't buy it now, if they come back after covid is over and want to play then they have to buy it then.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
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Yeah, the Necrons and Marines stuff that came out last year was ready well in advance.
They launched the edition mid-July but rumours have it that it was planned to be released 1-2 months ealrier.
They most likely had most of the stuff ready, especially those things they don't manufacture themselves (boxes, books, ...).
Then they slowed down the release schedule up to the current halt.

I love to gak on GW's practices but I understand that 2020 made it difficult to run a manufacturing company with a global supply chain (China -> UK -> worldwide distribution).
I just wish they gave an insight on what their current release plans are. I'd more happily wait 12 more months for my 9th ed updated codex if I knew that in advance, rather than hope they announce it and then being disappointed, online reveal after online reveal.



 
   
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Compared to past editions things have become much better for xenos.

At least we are now sure to receive a codex and some kind of supplement each edition. We have no doubt that at some point it will happen.

In past editions (which were even longer) it was possible for xenos to have codici that were last updated 2 editions prior to the current one.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/04 13:25:59


 
   
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The focus on marines is a sad but unavoidable fact of life, even though the current marine wankfest is a tad too much for this old Synapse brain...

However, the 9th edition's one-sided update to the imperial stat lines and weapons was a completely avoidable clusterfeth.

That could be handled better. Temporary updates to Xenos weaponry could've been released alongside everyone else, especially with Covid creating even more disruption in the already too slow release pipeline.
   
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Spoletta wrote:
Compared to past editions things have become much better for xenos.

At least we are now sure to receive a codex and some kind of supplement each edition. We have no doubt that at some point it will happen.

In past editions (which were even longer) it was possible for xenos to have codici that were last updated 2 editions prior to the current one.


The actual reality is that the large majority of content received in a faction's codex in 8th edition was simply withheld from their initial index rules. in 8th edition GW cranked up the marketing strategy of 'Manufactured Discontent' that you'll often see employed in freemium-style video games like Fortnite. Playing a game with a faction that only had its index against a faction that had its codex was intended to be a frustrating experience. Reserving all Stratagems, Relics, and Subfaction traits and ensuring that the baseline warlord traits were universally worse than the codex traits ensured that even the lowest-effort codexes felt like they had something to get you excited for, unlike in previous editions like 6th and 7th where a common lament was 'nothing changed except we lost a bunch of options to No Model No Rules, wtf GW?'

A codex is intended to feel like a massive relief/improvement over the previous state, no matter what. In order to do that without simply allowing massive power creep, GW has to make sure that any given faction ends up near the bottom of the barrel competitively just before they get their codex. Harlequins, Daemons and Sisters of Battle going through the edition change with streamlined but highly functional rules for 9th edition and factions like Drukhari, Craftworlds, Tau and GSC getting completely reamed by the beginning of the edition points changes was not an accident. I would bet extremely safe money that if you organized the factions without codexes from current worst to current best, you'd come extremely close to predicting the 9th edition codex release schedule.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
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Here's my big question - with the stat line changes that have come through, I can't help but feel that faction's that haven't received their codex yet should just be avoided for the time being. It's anyone's guess how they might shake out. Feels like the game is limbo right now (and will be for a while more).

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40k is always in limbo, they're always releasing new units and new rules to sell to people. They didn't even finish a full round of Psychic Awakening before 9th was dropped.
   
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I would also love to see an expansion of the Xenos lines, both in terms of expanding existing factions and introducing AT LEAST one more Xenos faction. I think it would be great to have all Xenos factions in the same place as Aeldari are at, with two or three main factions and one or two smaller factions that can help thematically unite the more standalone factions.


My hope would be the opposite. No more new factions of any kind for a while. They can't keep up with the lines they have, and with so much design space given over to Marines at this point, there's even LESS room for the lines they have. You've got armies like Drukhari that have actually only LOST models since their last revamp, and other armies where some of their models have been around since 2nd ed. I'd like to see them get everyone updated to the point where the armies only need occasional maintenance (ie a small release here and there) before they add anything new.

Not to mention the fact that, Aeldari have Craftworld Eldar, and two borderline unplayable disasters of factions. I don't think anyone looks at those books and thinks "Yeah - I want that". Would much rather see them fix everything before adding anything new.

Here's my big question - with the stat line changes that have come through, I can't help but feel that faction's that haven't received their codex yet should just be avoided for the time being. It's anyone's guess how they might shake out. Feels like the game is limbo right now (and will be for a while more).


IMO, it depends. Right now you only have most of the Marines and 'Crons w/new dexes. That still leaves most of the field on older books. So for now, you're probably fine with an old codex. Marines 2.0 was one of the top 2 most OP codexes they've ever released, so it's not like facing them with your old book is that much worse, and while 'Crons are way better than they've been in ages, there aren't that many Necron players.

That said, I think this is the ultimate "Haves and Have Nots" edition. We've already seen where the promise of 8th edition compatibility is true only in the broadest sense. 9th is a completely different game that has literally broken (broken as in these guys are barely playable) 4 or 5 factions. As more books come out, I would absolutely avoid (like the plague) armies that do not have their 9th ed books.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/01/04 14:24:32


Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug

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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I feel like I asked this before, but now that we are further into 9th, I had a thought about asking it again. As for releases yet planned obviously we have no clue, also GW is eager to pump out their new Primaris line of cash cows, so obviously that skews it, also the COVID epidemic, but on the whole: How has the 9th roadmap married up with previous editions for released factions? Is it odd that we've gone through 4-5 factions released without a single Xenos faction? Or without anything non-astartes? Not even the big cash cow factions like Knights or Guard....


Well, let's take a look and see which factions have been released for 9e so far;
Space Marines
NECRONS
Deathwatch
Space Wolves
Blood Angels
Spoiler:
One of these things is not like the others.... Care to take a guess wich one it might be?


Yep, you're right. No Xeno faction present in that list.... It's been all Astartes since July.

What's upcoming in the immediate/near future of 2021?
Death Guard
Dark Eldar
Dark Angels


   
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ccs wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I feel like I asked this before, but now that we are further into 9th, I had a thought about asking it again. As for releases yet planned obviously we have no clue, also GW is eager to pump out their new Primaris line of cash cows, so obviously that skews it, also the COVID epidemic, but on the whole: How has the 9th roadmap married up with previous editions for released factions? Is it odd that we've gone through 4-5 factions released without a single Xenos faction? Or without anything non-astartes? Not even the big cash cow factions like Knights or Guard....


Well, let's take a look and see which factions have been released for 9e so far;
Space Marines
NECRONS
Deathwatch
Space Wolves
Blood Angels
Spoiler:
One of these things is not like the others.... Care to take a guess wich one it might be?


Yep, you're right. No Xeno faction present in that list.... It's been all Astartes since July.

What's upcoming in the immediate/near future of 2021?
Death Guard
Dark Eldar
Dark Angels




Exactly - 9th Ed started off with a major Xenos release. The whole Necrons faction was refreshed. You have to go back to 5th Ed to have a Xenos army in the "starter box." The Necrons have sold well around my parts.

Comparing what we know of the 9th Ed release schedule to 8th Ed, we've seen the grouping together of the Space Marines. Perhaps they mapped out all the Space Marine chapters/sub-factions at once and got them out of the way in terms of design and release windows. Now they can work on other things.

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TangoTwoBravo wrote:
ccs wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I feel like I asked this before, but now that we are further into 9th, I had a thought about asking it again. As for releases yet planned obviously we have no clue, also GW is eager to pump out their new Primaris line of cash cows, so obviously that skews it, also the COVID epidemic, but on the whole: How has the 9th roadmap married up with previous editions for released factions? Is it odd that we've gone through 4-5 factions released without a single Xenos faction? Or without anything non-astartes? Not even the big cash cow factions like Knights or Guard....


Well, let's take a look and see which factions have been released for 9e so far;
Space Marines
NECRONS
Deathwatch
Space Wolves
Blood Angels
Spoiler:
One of these things is not like the others.... Care to take a guess wich one it might be?


Yep, you're right. No Xeno faction present in that list.... It's been all Astartes since July.

What's upcoming in the immediate/near future of 2021?
Death Guard
Dark Eldar
Dark Angels




Exactly - 9th Ed started off with a major Xenos release. The whole Necrons faction was refreshed. You have to go back to 5th Ed to have a Xenos army in the "starter box." The Necrons have sold well around my parts.

Comparing what we know of the 9th Ed release schedule to 8th Ed, we've seen the grouping together of the Space Marines. Perhaps they mapped out all the Space Marine chapters/sub-factions at once and got them out of the way in terms of design and release windows. Now they can work on other things.


Yeah - I figure if we run really fast, the xenos will definitely get to kick that football this time around.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
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I'm actually pretty happy to see all the marine releases done ASAP, as that means it's all out of the way and done with.

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Well, let's take a look and see which factions have been released for 9e so far;
Space Marines
NECRONS
Deathwatch
Space Wolves
Blood Angels

One of these things is not like the others.... Care to take a guess wich one it might be?


Yeah! You entitled Xenos players got ... A RELEASE ... Quit whining!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/04 16:04:10


Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug

Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..." 
   
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We still have another Gravis space marine captain, storm speeders, heavy intercessors, eradicators, and the blade guard kit just to catch up with their Fall codex.

That alone will be on par with what a non-marine faction gets once every few years.

I just hope that after that crap is out of the way, we will see at least several waves of actually interesting and rich non-marine content before the inevitable wave of jump pack Primaris and Primaris flyers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/04 15:41:11


 
   
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Assault Intercessors, Heavy Intercessors, Eradicators, Captain with SS, Liutenant with Volkite, Bladeguard, Bladeguard Ancient, Judicar, Techmarine, Stationary Turret, Fortification, Outriders, Gladiator, Invader....Yeah, that's 15.

Space Marines got as many plastic kit releases with the launch of 9th as Craftworld Eldar have had plastic kits released since the launch of 5th when I started playing the game.

That's so incredibly bonkers. there's got to be an Eldar line revamp coming lol.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
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ccs wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I feel like I asked this before, but now that we are further into 9th, I had a thought about asking it again. As for releases yet planned obviously we have no clue, also GW is eager to pump out their new Primaris line of cash cows, so obviously that skews it, also the COVID epidemic, but on the whole: How has the 9th roadmap married up with previous editions for released factions? Is it odd that we've gone through 4-5 factions released without a single Xenos faction? Or without anything non-astartes? Not even the big cash cow factions like Knights or Guard....


Well, let's take a look and see which factions have been released for 9e so far;
Space Marines
NECRONS
Deathwatch
Space Wolves
Blood Angels
Spoiler:
One of these things is not like the others.... Care to take a guess wich one it might be?


Yep, you're right. No Xeno faction present in that list.... It's been all Astartes since July.

What's upcoming in the immediate/near future of 2021?
Death Guard
Dark Eldar
Dark Angels




To be fair, it's a bit difficult to notice the soft snow during a tsunami flood.
Marines
Other
Marines
Marines
Marines
Bad Marines
Other
Marines

I kinda get why a poster might forget.
   
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 jaredb wrote:
I'm actually pretty happy to see all the marine releases done ASAP, as that means it's all out of the way and done with.


Remember the 2.0 Marine codex in 8th? Just because they release an update to all the power armor codex doesn't mean we are done seeing power armor updates.

I expect that this edition will be the same as all other editions where Marines get all the attention and everyone else gets the scraps. People will argue that because Marines are popular of course they get all the attention, ignore the fact that when Sisters got an updated range they became wildly popular almost like if you support an army they become more popular.
   
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Tycho wrote:
Well, let's take a look and see which factions have been released for 9e so far;
Space Marines
NECRONS
Deathwatch
Space Wolves
Blood Angels

One of these things is not like the others.... Care to take a guess wich one it might be?


Yeah! You entitled Xenos players got ... A RELEASE ... Quit whining!


Yeah, you conglomerate of Xenos players, because Xenos is a single faction, right? So that Necron stuff is super duper useful to those Ork and Tau players over there, right?



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How many xeno factions are there, like 7? Necros, Eldar, Pointy Eldar, Orks, Tau, and Tyranids/GSC.

So yeah, one got a full model re-release, the one literally no one plays and mostly sucks, still. I am willing to admit that I forgot they got a re-release, but in all honesty, why drip feed out factions that no one cares about. What does everyone want? Craftworlds, Tau, and Orks. What does GW make? Full re-do of Necrons and maybe a new unit or two for Drukhari. Awesome. You know, I wonder if they released lore that GSC infiltrated a Astartes Chapter and now gets a full Primaris lineup access, if all the marine players would start screaming in agony.
   
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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
How many xeno factions are there, like 7? Necros, Eldar, Pointy Eldar, Orks, Tau, and Tyranids/GSC.

So yeah, one got a full model re-release, the one literally no one plays and mostly sucks, still. I am willing to admit that I forgot they got a re-release, but in all honesty, why drip feed out factions that no one cares about. What does everyone want? Craftworlds, Tau, and Orks. What does GW make? Full re-do of Necrons and maybe a new unit or two for Drukhari. Awesome. You know, I wonder if they released lore that GSC infiltrated a Astartes Chapter and now gets a full Primaris lineup access, if all the marine players would start screaming in agony.


There are currently 8 xenos books, 11 loyalist space marine books, 5 chaos books, and 5 non-marine imperial books, plus a bunch of stuff that can be best described as 'misc' that mostly falls within the category of non-marine imperial.


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
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Canada

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
How many xeno factions are there, like 7? Necros, Eldar, Pointy Eldar, Orks, Tau, and Tyranids/GSC.

So yeah, one got a full model re-release, the one literally no one plays and mostly sucks, still. I am willing to admit that I forgot they got a re-release, but in all honesty, why drip feed out factions that no one cares about. What does everyone want? Craftworlds, Tau, and Orks. What does GW make? Full re-do of Necrons and maybe a new unit or two for Drukhari. Awesome. You know, I wonder if they released lore that GSC infiltrated a Astartes Chapter and now gets a full Primaris lineup access, if all the marine players would start screaming in agony.


So nobody wanted Necrons and they still suck? Interesting take. The release was excellent, and its been very well received. Lots of new Necrons on the tables at my FLGS until the second Lockdown.

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TangoTwoBravo wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
How many xeno factions are there, like 7? Necros, Eldar, Pointy Eldar, Orks, Tau, and Tyranids/GSC.

So yeah, one got a full model re-release, the one literally no one plays and mostly sucks, still. I am willing to admit that I forgot they got a re-release, but in all honesty, why drip feed out factions that no one cares about. What does everyone want? Craftworlds, Tau, and Orks. What does GW make? Full re-do of Necrons and maybe a new unit or two for Drukhari. Awesome. You know, I wonder if they released lore that GSC infiltrated a Astartes Chapter and now gets a full Primaris lineup access, if all the marine players would start screaming in agony.


So nobody wanted Necrons and they still suck? Interesting take. The release was excellent, and its been very well received. Lots of new Necrons on the tables at my FLGS until the second Lockdown.
Unfortunately they're a big disappointment for me. Despite a release titled "Pariah" there were no Pariahs, Marines increased to 2W and Necron Warriors/Immortals stayed at 1, and Monoliths are still uninspiring. I gathered some models in anticipation, but I'm seriously considering selling them off.

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So nobody wanted Necrons and they still suck? Interesting take. The release was excellent, and its been very well received. Lots of new Necrons on the tables at my FLGS until the second Lockdown.


I wanted Necrons so the part about no one wanting them is def. wrong. lol

That said, yeah, they're not great. The models are nice, but the army, if I had to guess, is likely to be bottom of the middle tier by the time it's all said and done. I like that I have actual tools in the toolbox now. That said, a lot of the tools are turning out to be average at best. The big hope is that the rest codexes follow the Necron paradigm, because if they follow the marine paradigm, 'crons are gonna have issues.

Also, don't even get me started on the tragedy that is "command Protocols"

Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug

Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..." 
   
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NE Ohio, USA

Kitane wrote:
We still have another Gravis space marine captain, storm speeders, heavy intercessors, eradicators, and the blade guard kit just to catch up with their Fall codex.

That alone will be on par with what a non-marine faction gets once every few years.


I'll repeat it for you : NECRONS....



Kitane wrote:
I just hope that after that crap is out of the way, we will see at least several waves of actually interesting and rich non-marine content before the inevitable wave of jump pack Primaris and Primaris flyers.


And drop pods.
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




Tycho wrote:
So nobody wanted Necrons and they still suck? Interesting take. The release was excellent, and its been very well received. Lots of new Necrons on the tables at my FLGS until the second Lockdown.


I wanted Necrons so the part about no one wanting them is def. wrong. lol

That said, yeah, they're not great. The models are nice, but the army, if I had to guess, is likely to be bottom of the middle tier by the time it's all said and done. I like that I have actual tools in the toolbox now. That said, a lot of the tools are turning out to be average at best. The big hope is that the rest codexes follow the Necron paradigm, because if they follow the marine paradigm, 'crons are gonna have issues.

Also, don't even get me started on the tragedy that is "command Protocols"

Yeah, those are a mess.

The army, I think, suffers from too much overlap. Yes, there are new tools, but it didn't need multiple units doing the same thing in melee (and suffering from multi-wound RP issues), or new shooty units that are same or worse as existing shooting units.
Or relics that were written apparently out of spite.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




NE Ohio, USA

Voss wrote:

The army, I think, suffers from too much overlap. Yes, there are new tools, but it didn't need multiple units doing the same thing in melee (and suffering from multi-wound RP issues), or new shooty units that are same or worse as existing shooting units.
Or relics that were written apparently out of spite.


What, you think my Canoptik Doomstalker is inferior to a Doomsday Ark? Sure, it's gun is slightly weaker, etc. But I can't stand the Ark model. A Doomstalker? I'll spend $ on that model
   
 
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