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Made in fr
Regular Dakkanaut




https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/07/13/5-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-new-totally-rebuilt-kill-team/

the rules have been reimagined from the ground up to completely revolutionise the tabletop skirmish combat experience.
We really mean it when we say Kill Team has been completely rebuilt. Every rule is bespoke, and they are no longer based on the Warhammer 40,000 rule set.


Spoiler:
5 Things You Need to Know About the New, Totally Rebuilt Kill Team
OctariusPreview Jul10 KT Header

Among the many explosive reveals in Saturday’s Warhammer Preview Online, we announced a brand new version of Kill Team. As well as introducing some incredible miniatures for the Death Korps of Krieg and Ork Kommandos to the game, the rules have been reimagined from the ground up to completely revolutionise the tabletop skirmish combat experience.

In fact, so much has changed that we’re dedicating a bumper crop of articles to every aspect of the new Kill Team over the coming weeks. Here are just a few of the things you can look forward to in the latest edition.

We really mean it when we say Kill Team has been completely rebuilt. Every rule is bespoke, and they are no longer based on the Warhammer 40,000 rule set.

These dynamic rules allow players to relive tense and gritty spec ops missions full of heroic moments and nail-biting decisions – like the demolition job seen in the stunning cinematic trailer. The new Kill Team experience simulates close-quarters skirmish combat, where stealth and positioning are every bit as important as shooting, and commanders need to use all their cunning to outfox their opponent.

Your units’ datacards are changing, showing off what your operatives can do in more detail than ever before. Front-line troopers can act with comrades, nimble fighters can dodge incoming fire, and powerful soldiers, like the mighty Space Marines, can even perform more actions in a turn than lesser beings. We’ll be having a close look at the new datacards later this week, so keep your eyes peeled.

Kill Team is set among the growing maelstrom of the Octarius sector, where Imperial forces and xenos hordes collide in apocalyptic battles on a daily basis.

As the next narrative setting for Warhammer 40,000, War Zone Octarius is home to a continually developing story that will have far-reaching consequences for the fate of the galaxy. The saga begins with Kill Team and War Zone Octarius: Book One – Rising Tide, which we also revealed during Saturday’s preview.

The kill teams themselves undertake critical missions in this theatre of war, hoping to break the fragile stalemate. So important are the developments in the embattled sector that even those forces not directly involved* have a stake in this momentous conflict.

While players may be used to fighting amid the ruins on Imperial planets or the dark depths of Necron tomb worlds, the ramshackle Ork settlements of the Octarius sector are rife with new challenges.

Constant back-and-forth action is the cornerstone of the new edition of Kill Team, as commanders take alternating turns to activate each of their operatives. Sudden dashes for objectives can come at any moment, and plans must change on the fly as enemy troops weave in and out of cover. No longer will one player have to withstand the full fury of their foe’s assault before getting to respond.

The kill teams themselves are highly customisable, as you would expect from elite teams of operators, and there are many build options available. Each model can be equipped with weapons to match different specialisations within their roster, and no two kill teams will look exactly alike.

And that’s just the tip of the iceberg. More news is on the way – including a close look at the datacards tomorrow – as we get closer to pre-orders for Kill Team: Octarius opening in August. Check out all of the factions on the freshly updated Kill Team website, then let us know on Facebook which you’ll be playing as first.

* The Imperium, Orks, and Tyranids may be the major players, but every faction has its own agenda and kill teams at the ready.


One very quottable comment from the new rules :
Constant back-and-forth action is the cornerstone of the new edition of Kill Team, as commanders take alternating turns to activate each of their operatives. Sudden dashes for objectives can come at any moment, and plans must change on the fly as enemy troops weave in and out of cover. No longer will one player have to withstand the full fury of their foe’s assault before getting to respond.

Made me lol since it's one of the biggest complaint about 40K

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/26 13:01:39


 
   
Made in gb
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'






Anyone got any hope that it will be anything other than 'I activate one model, then you do, then I do again', giving a huge advantage (which will not be accounted for in points values) to smaller, more elite forces (i.e. space marines)?

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Not really, considering that Marines get more actions during their activations.

DA70+S++G++M(GD)B+++I++++Pw40k96-D+++A++/mWD218R+++T(M)DM++ 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran





 Perfect Organism wrote:
Anyone got any hope that it will be anything other than 'I activate one model, then you do, then I do again', giving a huge advantage (which will not be accounted for in points values) to smaller, more elite forces (i.e. space marines)?

Is that how War Cry works?

When they flirted with alternating activation in Necromunda it worked the other way, favouring larger gangs.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

Yeah alternating activation can give advantages to multi activation forces who can essentially stall until the lower activation side is all done then outmanoeuvre them.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User






One of the new stats is Action Point Limit (APL). So perhaps each side will have a limited number of action points to spend. Spamming cheap bodies is less useful when you can't use them all.
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon





Surprised that one of the 5 things wasn't "This is the best Kill team Ever!"
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





I believe Infinity works off something similar to AP. I've not played it myself, so I'm sure somebody more educated can correct me, but you only get X amount of AP (or whatever they call it) and can only distribute it so far.
   
Made in at
Regular Dakkanaut





 Arbitrator wrote:
I believe Infinity works off something similar to AP. I've not played it myself, so I'm sure somebody more educated can correct me, but you only get X amount of AP (or whatever they call it) and can only distribute it so far.


With Infinity you get as many orders as you have units alive and use them to activate your models, also you use multiple orders on one models to activate it more than once in a single turn.
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




 Matrindur wrote:
 Arbitrator wrote:
I believe Infinity works off something similar to AP. I've not played it myself, so I'm sure somebody more educated can correct me, but you only get X amount of AP (or whatever they call it) and can only distribute it so far.


With Infinity you get as many orders as you have units alive and use them to activate your models, also you use multiple orders on one models to activate it more than once in a single turn.


Apparently KT will also be using group activations, which is also borrowed from Infinity's "Fire Teams" (not sure if used in other games). Basically lumping certain units together, activating them all with a single order.
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Broodlord




Lake County, Illinois

No longer will one player have to withstand the full fury of their foe’s assault before getting to respond


Also seems to imply that the person who wrote that article never played Kill Team and doesn't know the rules for it.
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





 Perfect Organism wrote:
Anyone got any hope that it will be anything other than 'I activate one model, then you do, then I do again', giving a huge advantage (which will not be accounted for in points values) to smaller, more elite forces (i.e. space marines)?

I've never played a game with alternating activations where the smaller forces had advantages.
   
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







 Albino Squirrel wrote:
No longer will one player have to withstand the full fury of their foe’s assault before getting to respond


Also seems to imply that the person who wrote that article never played Kill Team and doesn't know the rules for it.


I doubt anyone at GW plays GW games

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Made in gb
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard







Crusael wrote:
 Matrindur wrote:
 Arbitrator wrote:
I believe Infinity works off something similar to AP. I've not played it myself, so I'm sure somebody more educated can correct me, but you only get X amount of AP (or whatever they call it) and can only distribute it so far.


With Infinity you get as many orders as you have units alive and use them to activate your models, also you use multiple orders on one models to activate it more than once in a single turn.


Apparently KT will also be using group activations, which is also borrowed from Infinity's "Fire Teams" (not sure if used in other games). Basically lumping certain units together, activating them all with a single order.


It’s also used in Stargrave and Necromunda. I don’t think it’s necessarily unique to Infinity, although it might have started there.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






It was used, to a lesser extent, in confrontation

lost and damned log
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/519978.page#6525039 
   
Made in us
Using Object Source Lighting





Portland

Rihgu wrote:
 Perfect Organism wrote:
Anyone got any hope that it will be anything other than 'I activate one model, then you do, then I do again', giving a huge advantage (which will not be accounted for in points values) to smaller, more elite forces (i.e. space marines)?

I've never played a game with alternating activations where the smaller forces had advantages.
+1. Alternating activation games very often favor the larger force, as they either have activations they can spend with impunity after the other side has used up all of theirs for a turn, and/or they are able to concentrate multiple activations. Even systems/rules that are designed to compensate for concentrating points often don't very effectively balance numerical advantage.


My painted armies (40k, WM/H, Malifaux, Infinity...) 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






For anyone who hasn't seen it, "Glass Half Dead" on youtube has picked over the screenshots we have to paint a pretty comprehensive picture of how a lot fo the new rules are likely to function.

I'm honestly, overall pretty pumped. The level of deadliness is pretty solid (mathswise, a guardsman firing a lasgun at another guardsman out of cover deals 2.6/7hp in damage, and a guardsman firing a flamer at another guardsman out of cover deals 6/7hp) and as long as there's no silly thing to ruin it like "shoot is not a unique action, models can shoot as many times as they take action points" the game should be pretty solid.

Also, I'm a huge sucker for D6-based opposed roll damage resolution. all the granularity of hit-wound-save type bucket o dice systems, none of the repetitive rolling or needing to memorize your target's stats.

The 'elites will have more actions' is the only thing that worries me, because unless they split up their statlines carefully that could lead to elites doing some preeeeetty silly gak. Like if marines had an APL of 4, and like Guardsmen a move of 6, that would mean a marine could potentially move 24" in a turn.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/13 17:52:34


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in gb
Deadly Dire Avenger





Crusael wrote:
 Matrindur wrote:
 Arbitrator wrote:
I believe Infinity works off something similar to AP. I've not played it myself, so I'm sure somebody more educated can correct me, but you only get X amount of AP (or whatever they call it) and can only distribute it so far.


With Infinity you get as many orders as you have units alive and use them to activate your models, also you use multiple orders on one models to activate it more than once in a single turn.


Apparently KT will also be using group activations, which is also borrowed from Infinity's "Fire Teams" (not sure if used in other games). Basically lumping certain units together, activating them all with a single order.


I might be reading too much into GW's rather vague hype article but I was getting definite whiff of Infinity from it - it sounds like there are group activations, the ability to spend multiple action points on a single model (but unlike Infinity this has a cap) and that bit about "nimble fighters can dodge incoming fire" could easily be implemented as part of a reaction system - in Infinity models can react to being shot at by trying to dodge or return fire, for example. I could see something allowing you to spend activation points to react like this in response to enemy actions.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Myrtle Creek, OR

Seems like they decided that kill team mechanics don’t have to match 40k to produce gateway effects.
   
Made in de
Deadly Dark Eldar Warrior





Germany

While new rules is not bad per se, I really liked having a rules set where I could throw anything in my collection on the table...
This all just seems like - lets make you buy everything new, even if you already have a 10k points WH40K army, because now you need this extra book! And these faction specific cards! And these mandatory tokens! And this brainbug implanted!
Might get it anyway, for the sweet plasticrack...

Human ambassador of Cats on earth. All hail our feline overlords!!! 
   
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







 the_scotsman wrote:
For anyone who hasn't seen it, "Glass Half Dead" on youtube has picked over the screenshots we have to paint a pretty comprehensive picture of how a lot fo the new rules are likely to function.

I'm honestly, overall pretty pumped. The level of deadliness is pretty solid (mathswise, a guardsman firing a lasgun at another guardsman out of cover deals 2.6/7hp in damage, and a guardsman firing a flamer at another guardsman out of cover deals 6/7hp) and as long as there's no silly thing to ruin it like "shoot is not a unique action, models can shoot as many times as they take action points" the game should be pretty solid.

Also, I'm a huge sucker for D6-based opposed roll damage resolution. all the granularity of hit-wound-save type bucket o dice systems, none of the repetitive rolling or needing to memorize your target's stats.

The 'elites will have more actions' is the only thing that worries me, because unless they split up their statlines carefully that could lead to elites doing some preeeeetty silly gak. Like if marines had an APL of 4, and like Guardsmen a move of 6, that would mean a marine could potentially move 24" in a turn.


So shooting sounds mostly like X-wing, except you can vary the target number in addition to the number of dice.

Zona Alfa has 3 tiers of fighter with 1, 2, and 3 actions per turn respectively, seems to work fine. As you say, some limit on movement might be prudent.

Posters on ignore list: 34

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





I'm generally not a big fan of alternating activations because it ends up becoming too big a part of the game. The order in which you activate becomes too important, gaming the activation system by taking more entities to activate, you lose the broad strategy of a "turn" and even if you're thinking multiple activations in advance it becomes more of a reactionary game.

Of course IGOUGO has problems in 40k where turns take an eternity (at least last time I played which was several years ago, don't know if recent 40k editions have significantly sped up turns), but in games where turns don't take forever I tend to prefer IGOUGO.

But we'll see, I'm willing to give anything a go.
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





Whatever the system, there will always be people who don't agree with the game design choices.

Anyway, so far, we know more from Adam Troke when he was flipping the pages fast on the preview video than from this article.

I still expect KillCry.
   
Made in pt
Fireknife Shas'el




Lisbon, Portugal

Alternate Activations? Finally. That might be the final step for me to join the KT world.

KT, 40k, AI & BFG: / SW Legion & X-Wing: CIS / MCP

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"

 Shadenuat wrote:
Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army.
 
   
Made in fi
Dakka Veteran





 Garfield666 wrote:

This all just seems like - lets make you buy everything new, even if you already have a 10k points WH40K army


This isn't particularly new business model for GW.

That place is the harsh dark future far left with only war left. 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





Kind of tempting but I'm hoping they make the usual pigs ear of carving up the rules into contradictory books and far too many card packs so save me moneys

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran



South East London

So I watched the "Glass half dead" video and this does look very interesting.

Obviously it won't be 100% accurate but I think his speculation is sound.

My big take from the video was that you won't really ever need to know your opponent's rules, only your own. This is because your reaction to everything your opponent does is baked into your data sheet.

That's very clever and I hope that is the case.

"Dig in and wait for Winter" 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






 lord_blackfang wrote:
 Albino Squirrel wrote:
No longer will one player have to withstand the full fury of their foe’s assault before getting to respond


Also seems to imply that the person who wrote that article never played Kill Team and doesn't know the rules for it.


I doubt anyone at GW plays GW games

I mean, I expect you're just trying to be edgy and/or hyperbolic here, but just for the record I know for a fact this is categorically untrue, both from my time there and the people I know who currently work for them.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Germany

 Nazrak wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
 Albino Squirrel wrote:
No longer will one player have to withstand the full fury of their foe’s assault before getting to respond


Also seems to imply that the person who wrote that article never played Kill Team and doesn't know the rules for it.


I doubt anyone at GW plays GW games

I mean, I expect you're just trying to be edgy and/or hyperbolic here, but just for the record I know for a fact this is categorically untrue, both from my time there and the people I know who currently work for them.


I mean we also know that the 8ed T'au Codex was written by someone that never played T'au in his life.

"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





I think the correct quote would have been "I doubt anyone at GW plays GW games the way anyone with a grasp of secondary school maths/stats does"

Hence having to plug leaks after every Codex, I mean how did Dark Techno slip the net ? (a xenos faction has flamers ? say wut now ?)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/14 12:13:01


"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
 
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