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if a marine with a power fist causes two wounds on 3 obliterators which fail their inv save how many are removed?

It sounds like two obliterators should be dead. You've framed the argument a little incorrectly as well. YOu have dealt two HITS which have caused two wounds. Each hit has to resolve itself. If One hit kills an obliterator than you still have one hit to resolve. If I remember correctly oblits happen to only have 4 toughness, so when you hit one, it fails its save, and loses all wounds (still only counted as one hit), then move to the next model.

Hope that helps.

Does it ? Or are we assuming thats correct as the obliterator has 2 wounds and suffers 2 s8 hits its assumed you remove 2xmodels.The intance the rule book provides uses a captain with 2wounds and is hit by a single wounding weapon where as the oblliterator is hit twice has two wounds but with each hit causing instant death wounds.

 

Dont get me 2wrong here I'm not saying only one obliterator is killed just looking for evidence that it is 2 killed
 
what if the obliterator took 2 wounds one from a powerfist another from a power weapon? is it one wounded one  kill? Or just kill one?

It wouldnt take two hits from a powerfist. As soon as the fist lands, it is dead. The second blow is not wasted on his corpse, it is used on his out of luck buddy. You always remove the maximum amount of models when resolving casualties.

yes but as weapons/ models  strike in I order the poweer weapon strikes then the fist so the weapon wounds one the fist kills it under the rules this is allowed

Think of it like this, if a power weapon and a fist EACH hit once and there are two obliterators the proper solution should be that one obliterator is dead and onehas a wound. Here is why, when you are fighting the rules state you must remove whole models first, HOWEVER they also state that when you resolve hits you must cycle through ALL models in the unit FIRST before wrapping around back to the beginning. Thus the first hit (being a power weapon) would hit the first obliterator, the next hit has to be resolved on the second obliterator BEFORE the first obliterator takes wounds again in the same round.

Not if they strike on different iniative steps. The power weapon would cause one wound to one Oblit, then the power fist would cause one wound - and that could be assigned to the wounded Oblit.

Instakill is good, but it ain't THAT good! (nor should it be IMHO)

your all wrong. you cant instant kill an obliterator as its T5 and the powerfist is STR8 and is therefor not double the STR to cause instant kill. therefore you lose 2 wounds and the rule books says take full models of rather then spread the wounds so you lose 1 obliterator as they have 2 wounds. If theobliterators were T4 then it wuld be insta kill and you would lose 2 models provided they were in range.

You need to check the latest printing of the Chaos Codex.  Obliterators are T 4 (5) [or T 5 (4), whichever is the proper way to right that).  Thus, they are quite power fistable.

Posted By Bookwrack on 09/07/2006 6:50 AM
You need to check the latest printing of the Chaos Codex.  Obliterators are T 4 (5) [or T 5 (4), whichever is the proper way to right that).  Thus, they are quite power fistable.

Yes they are considered to have Daemonic Resilience on top of a base T of 4. You don't count the +1 T from D. Resilience when determining instantkill.

EDIT:  Re-read my codex, I'm wrong.  powerfist and power weapon, only one obliterator dies. 

How dont wound calculations happen at different initiatives? Why have different initiatives then?

If a genestealer squad rends a whole tac marine squad, are the tac marines then able to swing back?

If you are charged and killed by something of a higher intiative you dont get to go. If you are auto killed and in a squad the other attacks are given to the people in the squad provided they are not an independant character.

what trooper says is correct. if killed by a higher I then you dont get to attack back as you are dead, unless some models live obviously. as for Obliterators being T4(5) does it actually say that they are a base str of 4 on there stats? like nurgle marines or bikers who are T4(5)? if it does then a powerfist does kill one model per wound but only if thats what the codex has in it. My codex might be out of date. ok while typeing i rand my local GW and yes mine is an old printing and obliterators are T4(5) so 2 powerfist hits would kill 2 obliterators if the inv saves were failed. Damn just when for once i thought i was right my old print codex lets me down, moan grumble.

Sorry I'm wrong I checked my book and you're right trooper. Sorry I didn't have my book at the time and was just guessing. Oh well...I'll make edits now

To the original question: two Obliterators are dead. If a powerfist hits twice and wounds twice, two Obliterators are removed as casualties. Rules quotes that support this view:

Page 41, "Suffering wounds & removing casualties"
"All the rules for removing shooting casualties apply in close combat, in addition to the following: ..."

Page 26, "Remove casualties"
"When a unit suffers wounding hits, each will affect a different model - you cannot claim that all the hits strike a single model."

There you go.

yes but if it was 2 power sword/axe hits that woundede you would only take one obliterator off as they each have 2 wounds and in squads with multiple wound you take whole models off first.

Then you use the rules on page 27 which state:

"When a creature like this suffers a wounding hit that it does not save against, it loses one wound."

"... you must remove whole multiple-Wound models from the unit as casualties where possible - wounds may not be 'spread around' to avoid removing models."

I can see where the contradiction is, but my understanding is that you:
- Roll to wound the unit as normal.
- If any of the wounds inflicted during any given Initiative step cause Instant Death, you remove as many whole models as there are Instant Death wounds. This is because as soon as a wound causing Instant Death gets past an armour save, the model is removed and the remaining wounds are cycled around as per page 26.
- Any other wounding hits are applied as per the rules on page 27.

Keeps things from getting too confusing IMHO.

I dpont dispute that one obliterator is wounded and another should be removed but there is nothing in the rules to stop a player removing the wounded obliterator as a casualty. As the intant death rule still only causes one wound although the wound is fatal.

Actually, read the section on removing models; it says to remove whole models whenever possible. A wounded model is not whole when it comes to ID, thus it would not be removed, unless it is the last model.

Thats what I would say, but I guess Whole model is based on User Interpretation. Anyone could just as easily argue that a whole model means you have to kill off models first before moving to unwounded models.

2 power fist wounds and one poweer weapon wound would only take 2 oblit off anyway

And it would also leave 1 wound on the remaining obliterator, if there were 3 present.

no it would not. the powerweapon hits at a higher I so 1 out of the 3 oblit take a wound first. then the 2 powerfist go last and cause 2 instant death wounds. you could take this of the obilt that has 1 wound already and one whole oblit. you dont have to take them on 2 fresh oblits. the rules dont say that. they say whole models firt, by there example you take off as many models withoutr distrubuting wounds. so if they were normal wound not instant death you would give one to the oblit thats already wounded to take him off and the other to a fresh oblit. Remember instant death or not its still a single wound therefore you can give it to a model thats already wounded. READ your rulebook.