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GodDamUser wrote:
The most disappointing thing so far with this launch is that FW isn't releasing all the rules at the start...

I just hope they do individual datasheets for DL

I want to use my Barbed Hierodule

Agreed. I want to use my barbred Hierodule, My Scythed Hierodule and my Harradin!

And they better be balanced compared to the Knight Titan, and that insane Leviathan thing.

I have tons of FW models of various factions (about 8 superheavies, and many other models) and honestly, the big problem is the balance is ALL OVER the place.

I don't want units that suck, but I don't want units that are OP either - where I have to apologise for playing my cool looking models.

The leviathan dread does NOT bode well for this - while we have only see a few other big power units (the big ork thing, the swarmlord, the KT) this dread is hitting way above its power level.
Hopefully points wise, it is a LOT more than the swarmlord, and almost as much as the KT.

FW - you have one job, don't mess it up....

Maybe to make the Primaris marines fit in a Rhino, you have to have the top doors open so they can fit. Gotta be a downside... say maybe, a toughness reduction due to having the windows down?

The leviathan dread does NOT bode well for this - while we have only see a few other big power units (the big ork thing, the swarmlord, the KT) this dread is hitting way above its power level.
Hopefully points wise, it is a LOT more than the swarmlord, and almost as much as the KT.

FW - you have one job, don't mess it up....

Considering it is the same as two 5 man Rubric squads and should easily kill them. I'd say it was severely undercosted.

Justyn wrote:

The leviathan dread does NOT bode well for this - while we have only see a few other big power units (the big ork thing, the swarmlord, the KT) this dread is hitting way above its power level.
Hopefully points wise, it is a LOT more than the swarmlord, and almost as much as the KT.

FW - you have one job, don't mess it up....

Considering it is the same as two 5 man Rubric squads and should easily kill them. I'd say it was severely undercosted.

On paper...eh maybe? Could just be the rubrics being too expensive. In practice? Who knows? We won't have a real idea of what's powerful and what's not for a solid month after release.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 katfude wrote:
Maybe to make the Primaris marines fit in a Rhino, you have to have the top doors open so they can fit. Gotta be a downside... say maybe, a toughness reduction due to having the windows down?

Maybe they just don't get rhinos?

On paper...eh maybe? Could just be the rubrics being too expensive. In practice? Who knows? We won't have a real idea of what's powerful and what's not for a solid month after release.

That is a valid point. That and GW have at least said they will continue to update costs to make everything work.

Justyn wrote:

The leviathan dread does NOT bode well for this - while we have only see a few other big power units (the big ork thing, the swarmlord, the KT) this dread is hitting way above its power level.
Hopefully points wise, it is a LOT more than the swarmlord, and almost as much as the KT.

FW - you have one job, don't mess it up....

Considering it is the same as two 5 man Rubric squads and should easily kill them. I'd say it was severely undercosted.

Well seeing as the Leviathan Dreadnought wasn't meant to be easily killed by infantry weapons I'd say it needs to easily kill them.

 Latro_ wrote:

Spoiler:

 Latro_ wrote:

Spoiler:

You only shoot the pistol in the shooting phase, so its still one pistol shot.

Six attacks wouldnt be to crazy much, especially for a unit oriented on close combat.

We also dont know the exact wording of the rule. Is it attack again at the end of the phase? Do you get to do both at once when you charge, or does the first one get the charge bonus and then you and your opponent do activations?

Remember that with power levels they re assuming you are equipping the unit with most options available.

So it is the cost of two fully kitted out rubric marine squads.

If the rule extended to Kharne... now we cooking some eggs

EldarExarch wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:

Spoiler:

The Death Guard models in the starter set are stunning. I'm not as sold on the Primaris Marines. I mean, I got zero complaints, but they're a bit less busy than I expected. Very vanilla. It's a good thing, I suppose, as we can all bling them out with tabards and accessories and wings, relics, what not, if we want to.

I think that the pox walker leader will look a lot better with a non white coat. As is, he looks too much like a doctor from a cheap B movie, and he doesnt' fit into 40k at all (looks like a mini for zombicide).

As for the pox walkers themselves, they're cool, but they tried too much with the poses of some of them I mean, what the hell are these guys doing

On the subject of the FW data sheet being over-complicated;
Assuming GW have used AoS and the lessons learned as a basis for the 40k methodology there's ample evidence on the net that for AoS there is such a thing as "too simple".
Find any AoS rules query thread and it won't take you long to find a thread along the lines of "I know the rule explicitly says X and Y, but do we think they mean Z?"

The FAQ for AoS for the most part is a lot of clarifications regarding reading rules. Quite possible the FW data sheet is an attempt to head off questions that might arise later.

Personally hoping the semantic control in 40k is better than it is in AoS. Wounds vs. damage in AoS is hours of fun to get your head around when certain abilities combine.

They are happy in Papa Nurgle's embrace @streetsamurai
That one is literally saying "come at me, I feel nothing of your pain".
It is mocking and gloating, and I personally love that they have character.

 Rippy wrote:
That one is literally saying "come at me, I feel nothing of your pain".

That two will be saying that, as you get two of each one. That's the problem with these minis. They've made each one too characterful, to the point where having a duplicate looks weird. They're all characters, so to speak, rather than being rank and file.

As individual models they look great, but it'll be odd to have a big unit of 50 where 5 of them have that coat and are all in the exact same pose.

 streetsamurai wrote:
I think that the pox walker leader will look a lot better with a non white coat. As is, he looks too much like a doctor from a cheap B movie, and he doesnt' fit into 40k at all (looks like a mini for zombicide).

As for the pox walkers themselves, they're cool, but they tried too much with the poses of some of them I mean, what the hell are these guys doing

Yes, I kind of of like the "happy zombie" idea though, makes a change from your standard drooling zombie. What I don't like is the recent need to put massive spikes on everything.
I think it looks bad, I'll be going at mine, with a saw and green stuff, taking off the spikes and putting in more pus, goo and braaiiins!

I'm disappointed they made the poxwalkers monopose like this. Harkens back to the cultists in Dark vengeance, sure they looked great but it was the exact same like 6 cultists over and over and over again. For a horde unit they then started looking weird once you got lots of them on the table. The way they went together didn't really allow you any way of easily modifying them either. Depending on how the kit goes for the Plague marines in this starter set too I'm thinking they may be snap-fit monopose models as well. Don't get me wrong, they look great, but collecting the starter box plague marines might very well mean getting the exact same mono-pose plague marines over and over. It's what bothered me with the dark vengeance chosen, beautiful sculpts but you couldn't easily change their wargear and it was the same 5 guys. This makes me wonder about the future Plague marine kits, will they just be an individual boxing of the 7 that are in this starter set or will they be actual customizable models?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Justyn wrote:

Any one have primaris in Space Wolf? A razorback would be the perfect vehicle for them. Heavy weapon support vs rhino which doesn't have a good weapon system. I never understood how vehicles didn't have a top armor value? Aren't planes and helicopters supposed to be tank killers.

They are still missing a vital part of being a Space Wolf imo. Melee weapons.

There will probably be more variations at some point. We are seeing the limited versions that are in the starter box. I would be utterly surprised if Inceptors don't have a CCW variation, especially for the Blood Angels.

And it isn't like Space Wolves totally eschew ranged weaponry. Their Tactical Squads can take two Special Weapons.

Fluff wise, I guess there is little reason for Primaris to be different between different chapters, as they all have the same geneseed and none of the chapter-specific 'biologies', I think? Which also helps GW as they don't need to do chapter-specific models, you wouldn't expect wolf pelts on SW Primaris marines, or extra wings all over the place for DA ones.

Though yes, I expect there will be some CCW ones. Not making the best use of the 2 attacks without them.

 Inevitable_Faith wrote:
I'm disappointed they made the poxwalkers monopose like this. Harkens back to the cultists in Dark vengeance, sure they looked great but it was the exact same like 6 cultists over and over and over again. For a horde unit they then started looking weird once you got lots of them on the table. The way they went together didn't really allow you any way of easily modifying them either. Depending on how the kit goes for the Plague marines in this starter set too I'm thinking they may be snap-fit monopose models as well. Don't get me wrong, they look great, but collecting the starter box plague marines might very well mean getting the exact same mono-pose plague marines over and over. It's what bothered me with the dark vengeance chosen, beautiful sculpts but you couldn't easily change their wargear and it was the same 5 guys. This makes me wonder about the future Plague marine kits, will they just be an individual boxing of the 7 that are in this starter set or will they be actual customizable models?

I hope they will realease multipose poxwalkers.

Please GW.

 Crazyterran wrote:

Six attacks wouldnt be to crazy much, especially for a unit oriented on close combat.

We also dont know the exact wording of the rule. Is it attack again at the end of the phase? Do you get to do both at once when you charge, or does the first one get the charge bonus and then you and your opponent do activations?

Plus if it is 6, then with DttFE, that's essentially seven (or 7.2)

Shooter wrote:

Fluff wise, I guess there is little reason for Primaris to be different between different chapters, as they all have the same geneseed and none of the chapter-specific 'biologies', I think? Which also helps GW as they don't need to do chapter-specific models, you wouldn't expect wolf pelts on SW Primaris marines, or extra wings all over the place for DA ones.

Though yes, I expect there will be some CCW ones. Not making the best use of the 2 attacks without them.

The Primaris Marines don't all have the same gene seed. They were made using the gene seed stores that the Ad Mech had available to them(probably the stuff that gets tithed to them). There is just additional genetic modification done beyond that point. There was talk of extra organs being grown. But ultimately, the Dark Angels will receive Primaris Marines that are derived from their own gene stock, same with Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and so on. They are generically equipped at this time, but once they reach their Chapters (and those Chapters start modifying existing Marines using the updated process), Chapter specific variations will start to arise.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Shooter wrote:

Fluff wise, I guess there is little reason for Primaris to be different between different chapters, as they all have the same geneseed and none of the chapter-specific 'biologies', I think? Which also helps GW as they don't need to do chapter-specific models, you wouldn't expect wolf pelts on SW Primaris marines, or extra wings all over the place for DA ones.

Though yes, I expect there will be some CCW ones. Not making the best use of the 2 attacks without them.

The Primaris Marines don't all have the same gene seed. They were made using the gene seed stores that the Ad Mech had available to them(probably the stuff that gets tithed to them). There is just additional genetic modification done beyond that point. There was talk of extra organs being grown. But ultimately, the Dark Angels will receive Primaris Marines that are derived from their own gene stock, same with Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and so on. They are generically equipped at this time, but once they reach their Chapters (and those Chapters start modifying existing Marines using the updated process), Chapter specific variations will start to arise.

They'll run into problems though with the Space Wolves, as Space Wolf geneseed only works with Fenrisians. Unless Guilliman patched this issue, but why would he, because giving the Space Wolves the ability to have successors would just lead to more and more Codex Divergent chapters.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
PLEASE tell me that regular Grav won't drop 5 wounds on Vehicle, Monstrous and Titanic keyword models.

Probably not - for the same reason that plasma guns and plasma pistols do less damage than the big plasma weapon on a Deredeo dreadnought. I wouldn't be surprised if man-portable grav weapons work the same way, though - doing extra damage to large targets.

 Latro_ wrote:

So the extra attack will prolly only be vs space marines to replace hatred?
And the attacking twice i'm not sure why folks are saying zerkers are gonna be auto win

currently:
1 attack +2 charging(rage) +1extra ccw - 4

new (at the absence of any other info)
1 attack +1 chainsword - 2
1 attack + 1 chainsword - 2 (fights again) - 4

Don't forget Unstoppable Fury based on the Chaos Deamon faction focus for +1 S & A if they charge or are charged. Given Death Guard sharing the same chaos rule as Chaos Deamons, it is s safe bet.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
That one is literally saying "come at me, I feel nothing of your pain".

That two will be saying that, as you get two of each one. That's the problem with these minis. They've made each one too characterful, to the point where having a duplicate looks weird. They're all characters, so to speak, rather than being rank and file.

As individual models they look great, but it'll be odd to have a big unit of 50 where 5 of them have that coat and are all in the exact same pose.

Yeah the two part kind of sucks, but I have so many zombies and cultists to mix and match squads, going to be pretty cool IMO

It's a starter set....hence monopose gribblies.

We've not seen a possible multi-part set.

zamerion wrote:

I hope they will realease multipose poxwalkers.

Please GW.

Well the Deathwatch game had monopose Hybrids that were later released as a new multi-pose kit, so I wouldn't rule it out.