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Made in us
[ADMIN]
President of the Mat Ward Fan Club






Los Angeles, CA

FOR THIS POLL, PLEASE ANSWER HOW YOU CHOOSE TO PLAY THE GAME, NOT NECESSARILY WHAT THE RULES AS WRITTEN (RAW) SAY.



The Multiple Toughness rule on page 23 of the rulebook says: "To keep things simple, use the Toughness characteristic that is in the majority in the target unit. If no majority exists, use the lowest in the unit."

The Units With Different WS rule on page 23 of the rulebook says: "Attacks against a unit are resolved using the Weapons Skill of the majority of the models. If there is no majority Weapon Skill, use the lowest Weapon Skill of the models engaged."

The Different Toughnesses rule on page 41 of the rulebook says: "If the unit being attacked contains models with different Toughness characteristics, use the Toughness of the majority of the engaged models. If there is no majority, then use the lowest Toughness among them."

The Mixed Armour rule on page 76 of the rulebook says: "Determine which armour type is in the majority -- if it is a tie then the worst type is assumed to be in the majority (it can be assumed that they are picked on by the enemy)."


 

QUESTION: How do you play the "majority rules" in 40k when a unit contains more than two different characteristic types and there is no clear majority (more than half) of any one of them?

 

OPTION A. The rules as written (RAW): If there is no majority then the worst characteristic is used, period.

Example:  A unit contains five models with a WS5, five models with a WS4 and two models with a WS2. Since there is no majority value (more than half) in the unit, the WS2 is used.

Note: the Mixed Armor rules (page 76) only discuss what to do if there is a "tie" not what to do if there is simply no majority (a plurality).


OPTION B. The largest characteristic "group" in the unit is used, even if it isn't a majority. If the largest "groups" are tied, then the worst characteristic between the largest "groups" is used, not the lowest characteristic in the unit.

Example1:  A unit contains six models with a WS5, five models with a WS4 and two models with a WS2. Although there is no majority, the largest characteristic "group" is used: WS5.

Example2:  A unit contains five models with a WS5, five models with a WS4 and two models with a WS2. Since there is no majority and no clear largest "group", the worst characteristic between the largest "groups" is used: WS4.


OPTION C. The largest characteristic "group" in the unit is used, even if it isn't a majority. If the largest "groups" are tied, then the worst characteristic in the unit is used.

Example1:  A unit contains six models with a WS5, five models with a WS4 and two models with a WS2. Although there is no majority, the largest characteristic "group" is used: WS5.

Example2:  A unit contains five models with a WS5, five models with a WS4 and two models with a WS2. Since there is no majority and no clear largest "group", the worst characteristic in the unit is used: WS2.


OPTION D. Something else entirely: reply exactly what it is below.



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I picked D, admitedly it comes up so rarely, if there is a tie in majority, I let the owning player decide, just seemed more, ...sportsmanly.

(May not be correct, but given the rarity I have experienced, I don't care.)

   
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Posted By Augustus on 09/07/2006 1:45 PM

I picked D, admitedly it comes up so rarely, if there is a tie in majority, I let the owning player decide, just seemed more, ...sportsmanly.

(May not be correct, but given the rarity I have experienced, I don't care.)


Are you talking about a true tie where one more model on either side would make a majority (this can only happen when the unit has two different characteristic types), or just when the largest groups are tied (even though one more model in either camp wouldn't make a true majority)?



I play (click on icons to see pics): DQ:70+S++G(FAQ)M++B-I++Pw40k92/f-D+++A+++/areWD104R+T(D)DM+++
yakface's 40K rule #1: Although the rules allow you to use modeling to your advantage, how badly do you need to win your toy soldier games?
yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
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Made in au
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Option D.

We don't use majority anything. Majority rules suck. We go with 3rd Ed's way of doing it - just allocate hits first, then roll to wound. It's not hard.

And don't even get me started on majority cover saves...

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I have never seen anything like this come up, so I'll go with how I would if it did come up. (I'm guessing this is a Tau or Ork problem)

Mixed WS largest number of that WS or lowest of the two largest if tied (RAW is absolute lowest if no majority but what a crock that would be. They should have used plurality but then noone would understand).
Mixed Toughness the same.
Mixed armor I would actually go by RAW, if there is no majority then I would actually have the worst armor saves first etc.

I'm trying to think of how this could come up and that only thing besides wierd ork mob ups would be slaver+grots+attached Warboss/Character or Thousand Sons with thralls and a command Sorcerer attached. Noone here plays Tau yet so what are some other situations?

   
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Utah (Oh god)

Voted A, The armor save issue comes up all the time for Black Templar. lthough I have to say, aside from armor, I have never come into a game with Toughness, or WS because most units with multi toughness or WS have that one model being an IC, which attacks seperately from the unit anyways.

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Angmar

To me, Opt B feels like how they meant to have it work.

I have a feeling that GW didn't really think about the definition of 'majority' when they wrote those rules, or perhaps they misunderstand the term altogether.

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Utah (Oh god)

For a democratic system that practically invented the needs for majority votes, I would think the Brits who write GW know what majority means. If they wanted a plurality they should have put it in. I have to say though many gamers I know play B

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I'm talking about a2 sided  true tie.  For example 6 models, 3 marines and 3 initiates in a Black Templar squad.  Are there 3 way ties? Like 2, 2 and 2 even possible.

(Yea I guess so, Inquisitorial retinue?)

That makes my head hurt.

   
Made in ca
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Canada

Yup, has come up with Inquisitorial retinue. We played it ss option B. Which seems make the most sense - just change 'majority' to 'mode', and use the worse of the two 'modes' in case of a tie.


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As much as this rarely comes up, I do option B. I doubt too many people actually know the difference between "MAJORITY" and "PLURALITY" anyway.

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Posted By whitedragon on 09/07/2006 11:14 PM
As much as this rarely comes up, I do option B. I doubt too many people actually know the difference between "MAJORITY" and "PLURALITY" anyway.

Yeah, my original poll question was full of the word "plurality", but then I figured that might confuse some people so I changed it to "groups".

I play (click on icons to see pics): DQ:70+S++G(FAQ)M++B-I++Pw40k92/f-D+++A+++/areWD104R+T(D)DM+++
yakface's 40K rule #1: Although the rules allow you to use modeling to your advantage, how badly do you need to win your toy soldier games?
yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
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Dives with Horses

Took D, most people that I play with do the same as HBMC which seems to make most sense.

Only problem is that there is a possibility that an IC gets 'sniped' but it is random chance not sniping really and I haven't actully seen it happen anyway.

Drano doesn't exactly scream "toy" to me.

engine

 
   
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Option D - We just resolve each set of WS attacks separately. It's not that hard.
   
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Posted By Voodoo Boyz on 09/08/2006 7:04 AM
Option D - We just resolve each set of WS attacks separately. It's not that hard.

You did not read the question correctly, it is about the majority WS of the 'defenders', not the models making the attacks.

   
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Philadelphia

Option B.  Just seemed to be the easiest way to do it, and we didn't even think about it not being the 'majority' within the unit. 

We read it to mean to use the WS of 'the largest number of models in a mixed unit, and if tied, use the lower.'

 

 


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I don't think this exact situation has ever come up in our games, but option B is the one closest to our normal thought patterns.
   
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I think those are horrible examples and a misunderstanding of what Majority means.

If 5 guys have BS4, 4 guys have BS3, and 2 guys have BS2 then BS5 is the majority as more models in the unit have BS5 than any other.

A better example is if you have a WS5 Libby in a unit of Terminators that loses 1. Suddenly you have the Libby that counts as 3 models with WS5, and 3 Terminators with WS4. 3 vs 3 there is no majority so the lower WS4 is used.
   
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First of all, wounds aren't used when figuring out majority totals, only models.

Second, I used the *actual* definition of the word "majority" so I didn't misunderstand anything.




I play (click on icons to see pics): DQ:70+S++G(FAQ)M++B-I++Pw40k92/f-D+++A+++/areWD104R+T(D)DM+++
yakface's 40K rule #1: Although the rules allow you to use modeling to your advantage, how badly do you need to win your toy soldier games?
yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
Waaagh Dakka: click the banner to learn more! 
   
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D: It's never come up, in all of the games of 40K I've played, so we never bothered to give it any thought.

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form the oxford dictionary webs site:

majority

? noun (pl. majorities) 1 the greater number. 2 Brit. the number by which the votes cast for one party or candidate exceed those for the next. 3 the age when a person is legally considered a full adult, usually 18 or 21.

? USAGE Strictly speaking, majority should be used with plural nouns to mean ?the greater number?, as in the majority of cases. Use with nouns that do not take a plural to mean ?the greatest part?, as in she ate the majority of the meal, is not considered good English.

or dictionary.com

ma·jor·i·ty [muh-jawr-i-tee, -jor-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
?noun, plural -ties.
1. the greater part or number; the number larger than half the total (opposed to minority): the majority of the population.
2. a number of voters or votes, jurors, or others in agreement, constituting more than half of the total number.
3. the amount by which the greater number, as of votes, surpasses the remainder (distinguished from plurality).
4. the party or faction with the majority vote: The Democratic party is the majority.
5. the state or time of being of full legal age: to attain one's majority.
6. the military rank or office of a major.

?Idiom7. join the majority or the great majority, to die.


Note that for both, the first part of the first deffinitions say that majority does infact mean the larger part, not always just over 50%. So both A and C are RAW.
   
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Nuremberg

I use the old 3rd edition rules for this, if I was in a tournement I would go with whatever my opponent was comfy with.

   
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Lancaster PA

I usually run with B since it makes sense, taking the highest number, and in case of a tie picking the lowest.
Taking the lowest number, even if less models have it than any other option, just doesn't seem right in that case.


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Greenville

B seems to be the most reasonable answer. I think RAI were meant as such, but that's just me.

If it becomes too much of a problem (which it never has, since I've never dealt with it before), then I'll just play 3rd Edition rules with my opponent - makes life easier.

CK

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