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Made in ca
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!






Soviet Kanukistan

Disclaimer - This is my opinion only... I have been wrong in the past.  In fact Kwade has turned me around on my perception of the Fireprism.  Without further ado:

Eldar - Combined Arms Analysis based on current rumour-set and personal playing experience V3-4.

HQ

Avatar - Quite a bit tougher with increased initiative and 3+ base save.  His fearless aura is also a nice-to-have.  However, at twice the cost, and with an umodifiable 6 speed, he's not going to get to use his "smackdown" powers unless you use something tricky, like a Guardian slingshot.  In addition, making your fragile squads fearless is great if you're going to stand back and shoot (to keep the firebase from bolting) - but can actually a bad thing when you get into melee, since you'll be eating extra wounds on your 4+ and 5+ bodies.

Autarch - A +1 to reserve rolls on a stick.  Otherwise, he's a choppy character with loads of expensive optons, and little synergy.  I can see this guy being taken in bike / jump-pack and vehicle heavy lists to offset the pain of escalation.  OTOH, fully mounted lists need not apply, since he can't help you if he's not on the table himself.

Farseer - More of the same.  He's slightly squishier, but the troops need his buffs / de-buffs.

Troops

Guardians - The basic defender is worthless, especially now that min-size is 10.  Choice of heavy gun is limited to the depowered starcannon or the scatterlaser.  The others are too unreliable, being 1 shot BS3, or too short ranged.

Rangers - With no disruption table, and min-size 5, these boys aren't worth it either.  A 4+ to wound "anything" makes them fairly terrible, heavy-1 makes them immobile, and they're too weak to hold objectives, since they have no staying power in assault.

Dire Avengers - The 18" everyone's been praying for... only on the wrong guys.  The max-size 10 and T3/Sv4 means that a waveserpent is mandatory if you want them to do any killing.  Bladestorm is mathematically not worth it - (unless you have a transport to redeploy).  This unit will excell against scattered enemy forces, but automatically giving up half your points to buy a non-scoring unit is painful.

Guardian Jetbikes - Fast Bloodclaws (WS3/BS3) - I guess 7 points buys you twinlinked shuriken catapults, bike/turbo-boost, free assault move.  Up to 3 heavy weapons.  We'll see these in many armies if their owners can stomach the $$$ cost.  In terms of ability, mobility and survivability, these guys are miles ahead of the rest.  Their firepower is superior to dire avengers with 3/4 accuracy vs 2/3, with greater threat range and equal defensive range.

Elites

Firedragons - S8 again.  Otherwise, no tactical changes.  Ride 'em in waveserpents of falcons.  Suffer from Escalation, so you'll want that Autarch to coordinate things.

Striking Scorpions - Ugh.  They're slow.  You might catch an opponent unawares if you infiltrate them...  but without fleet, they're advance can be matched with a measured enemy withdrawl.  The waveserpent isn't helping these guys at all.

Howling Banshees - Ugh.  They're fragile - with all the AP4 stuff in armies these days (HB and Assault Cannon) running them up the field is a dicey proposition at best, and they won't reach combat until turn 3 or 4.  You might catch an opponent unawares if uh... if they're stupid.  The waveserpent isn't helping these guys either.  Might be good for countercharge though, due to 13" threat range.

Harlequins - Ok.  Guys even more expensive and fragile than Banshees.  I'll reserve judgement for these guys later.

Wraithguard - T6!  Its too bad that firedragons do the same thing better for fewer points and more shots.  Oh, and they're still stumbling about like blind men if unatended by seers.

Fast Attack

Shining Spears - Fast space marine rough riders!  Hit and Run!  Eldar jetbike!  S6!  Massive points rebate!  Say no more!

Warp Spiders - We've got S6!  and they're more killy in HTH.  And they have Sv3+.  These guys are an anomaly.  They're fast moving, have strong guns with weak AP, and are moderately killy in HTH.  So - they fight worse than shining spears in assault (and are slower and less durable).  Their shots are worthless against MEQs, since 2/3 will save due to AP.  They're worthless vs monstrous creatures since firedragons will do a more thorogh job.  They're too weak to effectively harm vehicles with shooting.  Rule of thumb.  Shining spears for when you want to charge.  Banshees for counter-charge.  Firedragons for shooting tanks.  Dark Reapers for shooting troops.

Swooping Hawks - The fly-high thing is not a good ability.  You'll take 'em off the table only to maybe not have them return, or be killed when they DS onto the enemy.  Haywire is a good thing though... though probably not as good as the Spears.

Vyper - This guy still fills the same role, though the H2 starcannon hurts it a bit.

Heavy Support

Support Batteries - One of those - why bother units.  6 crew is a huge liability as is the Guardian statline.  I can see the crew getting fury'ed off the board en-masse.  The best ones, the 3x shadow-weavers won't harm MEQs much, pinning is near usless with almost universal Ld9+ - and now that:

Fireprism:  Alternate shot, combined shot.  Great if you can tie up your opponent so that it won't be stunned on your turn.  Also, there's always that 1/3 chance of missing... which doesn't happen for the Imperium's heavy tanks a-la the bizzaro ordinance rules.  I guess you've got to be high-tech to miss, and it takes 300 points to achieve a less accurate battlecannon shot, which is not ordinance.  All-in-all, a decent alternative to the Falcon.

Falcon:  This and its brother the Fireprism are hard as nails.  Though the new spirit stones mean that they won't be shooting much.  This guy is pretty much a flying objective grabber which is also a taxi.  If you get to shoot with it, this is gravy.

Wraithlord:  He can have 2 heavy weapons now!  But he's still slow.  Needs a seer baby-sitter.  He's also more expensive.

Dark Reapers:  These guys would be fantastic if they didn't compete for HS slots with our nigh-invincible tanks.  Still Sv3 is a welcome addition.  They're still slow as hell though, and improper deploy won't help 'em much.

War-walkers:  Expensive, and no longer die if you look at them.  Now it takes a stiff wind to kill them.  They scout, which makes 'em good weapons platforms for ground-pounding Eldar.  Which of course, are an oxymoron.  Good for 1+ turns of fire if you can shield them with LOS blocking assaults.

So let's look at the winners here:

Troops:  Guardian Bikes - on the basis that they're fast, durable and better than mounted Guardians...  I personally think that the HW platforms have been overly depowered (through reduction of starcannon shots, and it costs you more points to take them - so you have fewer)

Assault:  Shining Spears - on the basis that they'll actually make it into assault.

Countercharge:  Shining Spears - Banshees / Harlequins

Close Range Shooting:  Firedragons

Long Range Shooting:  Fireprism / Dark Reapers / Falcons / Warwalkers (arguably)

-----

Ok.  So let's look at our army build choices.  We can go fast, or slow.

Let's look at slow first.  A slow eldar list must have overwhemlming firepower to inflict sufficient damage in the first turn of shooting such that they may weather the enemy return fire and eventual attrition.  Let's see what the new codex gets us:  Range 12 means that most foot troops belong in the "Fast" category due to attrition, and/or not shooting until turn 3-4.

No more min-maxed starcannon shots on Guardians.  Starcannon cost / shot increased by 1.5.  Essentially, you're going to see 33% less starcannons by points cost.  A 300 point warwalker squad with starcannon will kick out 12 shots as opposed to 18. - A significant change since you'll be killing 5 MEQ as opposed to gutting the squad.  Dark Reapers are tougher, and won't die as often to the AP4 stuff as before - so there's a bit of consolation.  Though they compete for space with the main Eldar tank killers.

So... the best I can immagine it is Brightlance Vypers, some Brightlance Guardians (maybe 3).  Some scatterlaser Guardians, full Dark Reapers, a Farseer to buff/debuff and an Avatar to keep 'em from running, with some Banshees/Harlequins for countercharge.  Effectiveness?  Debatable.

So, we don't have the best choices to support a "slug-fest" style shooting list.

-----

Fast lists need either guys who are naturally fast, or mounted.  Since our assault guys are sitting ducks once they bail out of the transport.  They're right out.  So that leaves us fast guys that can take care of themselves in assault, or can shoot really well.  Spiders can assault decently, are fairly durable and can shoot reasonably.  Shining spears can also do all of these, better, with the exception that they are smaller squad size.  Firedragons own the short ranged shooting category.  In troops, mounted Guardians cost roughly the same as bike Guardians, so why take that expensive millstone for a throwaway unit when you can have a naturally fast and durable unit?  Sounds like a no-brainer for the eldar Kult of Speed.

I guess this style of list would rely upon tank based firepower vs tanks.  Mounted firedragons vs everything.  Shining spears to tie up enemy shooters and to win assaults, mounted Farseers for buffs / debuffs and bike Guardians to round out the compulsory choices.

Seems a bit more workable.

-----

Now the hybrid list.  I stayed away from this one since it weakens an already (IMO) weak Eldar strategy by dividing your attack force between static and fast units.  It might work with Reapers + Shining Spears - maybe - Fill the rest to choice.  Only time will tell.

Now let the flaming begin.  Discuss. 

   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





The House that Peterbilt

A couple of things that jump out at me.

Jetbikes: rumored to be 3-12 in a squad (+1 warlock) so 4 shurincannons seem to be possible. Otherwise I agree they have some potential.

Warpsiders: Your analysis is missing one key ingredient with these guys. Hit n run. This turns these guys into great short range anti troop units, even better then firedragons or Avengers. Firedragons might kill more marines (15/27 versus 10/27) but their utter lack of close combat ability, 4+ save and limited mobility makes them lackluster compared to spiders for anti-infantry shooting.

Main problem is they now compete with the much improved spears and the ubiquitous vyper. I personally wish they'd kept them elite but I can see the logic in the change. I've also been hoping the jump generator would get an overhaul but apparently not.

snoogums: "Just because something is not relavant doesn't mean it goes away completely."

Iorek: "Snoogums, you're right. Your arguments are irrelevant, and they sure as heck aren't going away." 
   
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Dakka Veteran




Can't disagree much, and was about at what I was looking at.
Though 2 Farseers for the mobile list, as the extra Farseer boosts will be far more useful than the +1 reserves roll.

One thing I considered though, was the possibility of larger Fire Dragon squads, in dedicated Wave Serpents, with the Fire Prisms instead of standard Falcons.

Actually, just thinking about it now, I think my favorite unit will end up being Shining Spears. 
Hit & Run, Turboboost, S6 power weapons on the charge and a discount!

That unit is gold right there.

   
Made in ca
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!






Soviet Kanukistan

A bit of an expanded look at Warp-Spiders vs Shining Spears w/ no points values.

Movement:

Shining spears move up to 12+6 assault move with no penalties, or turboboost for 3+I save
Spiders move up to 12+2D6 assault move with no penalties
Both have hit and run

Shooting:

10 shots, shuriken catapults, twinlinked - 2/3+1/3x2/3=8/9 chance to hit, 80/9 hits, 40/9 wounds, 40/27 kills
-OR-
5 laser lance shots, 10/3 hits, 50/18 wounds, 25/27 kills.
20 shots, deathspinners, 40/3 hits, 100/9 wounds, 100/27 kills.

Assault:

Spears: 12xS6 hitting on 4s, 6 hits, 5/6 wounds - 5 kills, Exarch, 3xS8? hitting on 3s, 2 hits, 10/6 wounds.
Spiders: 18xS3 hitting on 4s, 9 hits, 1/3 wounds - 3 wounds, 1/3 unsaved, 1 kills. Exarch 5xS3, hit on 3s, 10/3 hits, 20/9 kills. Total of 3 2/9 kills.

Intangibles:

Spears ++
Invulnerable while maneuvering into position. Fortune on this unit is rude. Especially when invulnerable.
Due to large base frontage, can expand squad to tie up multiple squads in melee. This is also rude when fortuned.
T4 is important once HTH is reached.

Spears --
Can be mobbed by enemy units - few bodies

Spiders ++
10 guys = 10 wounds
This unit is rude with Fortune on it. Slower to maneuver into HTH though.

Spiders --
Weaker than spears in HTH. S3/T3 makes them less able to thin enemy ranks and more vulnerable to return hits.
Can wipeout units and be vulnerable to fire.

I agree that the case can be made for either unit, but the rerollable invulnerable threat is just too good to pass up IMO. That and the unit will GUT whatever it charges. Rumours that spears can take shuricannons is just gravy on top of that.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Might rangers be worthwhile combined with a Farseer's Doom? Hitting on a 2+ and rerolling wounds on a 4+ would be kinda cool. I'm still disappointed that they don't have rending. It makes perfect sense, but oh well.
   
Made in ca
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!






Soviet Kanukistan

TheCrawlingChaos:  The usefulness of Doom depends on the effective range.  Because it is a reroll to wound, it is best used with "high volume" shooting units with low strength.  Let's look at a few scenarios:

Ranger vs MEQ
(5/6)(3/4)(1/3) = 5/24

Swooping Hawk
(2)(2/3)(5/9)(1/3) = 20/81

Guardian
(2)(1/2)(3/4)(1/3) = 1/4

Dire Avenger
(2)(2/3)(3/4)(1/3) = 1/3

Guardian Jetbike
(2)(3/4)(3/4)(1/3) = 3/8

So.  Rangers loose out due to low volume of fire, even though they have the best accuracy on the guns.  Since Eldar have no S5 guns, Doom is fairly useless on the "wound on 2s" S6 boys.

   
Made in fi
Regular Dakkanaut




Doesn't seem much of an army list. The fast army relies on playing as few escalation games as possible, and hoping for lots of terrain every game so that when escalation hits them the Fire Dragons can hide behind large pieces of area terrain and wait for their taxis to arrive. In my opinion this is already way too much hoping to be a very powerful force. In addition to that I really don't like the fact that those bikes have a 4+ armor save. Since noone can hide behind skimmers they're going to have a rough time unless all the Eldar dreams for mission and terrain come true.

The slow army doesn't even deserve a review since it's pathetically obvious that both the firepower and the resilience are miles behind their main competitors.

Well, as Ed Maule once famously said: "Therion's from Finland, where comp does not exist. Where he's from the trash we're forced to field for a tournament would lose to a 12 year old." - bigchris1313 
   
Made in ca
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!






Soviet Kanukistan

Therion:

I totally agree - I'm playing devil's advocate here.  I am having trouble cobbling together any sort of a cohesive list.  The best I can do is the list posted under the "run-n-gun" thread with bike-seers, spears, bikes and fireprisms.  That's a whopping 4 units used from the codex.  Ugh.  For those of us that pretty much own everything in the Eldar book, this is pretty disapointing.  I'm just hoping to be proven wrong.

 

   
Made in fi
Regular Dakkanaut




Yep and you should keep looking since there still might be something we have overlooked, however unlikely that may be. Fact just is that 40K isn't a very complicated game and usually the guy with the more point efficient troops wins the game, and the new Eldar simply aren't very good at trading shots with MEQ armies. The Falcon is the only unit in the book that sticks out, but having a few resilient taxis isn't enough when all the cargo is quite easily killed, and the guns of the Falcon easily silenced turn after turn.

Well, as Ed Maule once famously said: "Therion's from Finland, where comp does not exist. Where he's from the trash we're forced to field for a tournament would lose to a 12 year old." - bigchris1313 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Pretty much the only other thing I can think of is attempting to slingshot the Avatar with the Seer mini-Council, but the Council looks prohibitively expensive from my quick glance.

Hodge-Podge says: Run with the Devil, Shout Satan's Might. Deathtongue! Deathtongue! The Beast arises tonight!
 
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





The House that Peterbilt

Jetbikes have a 4+ armor save? Since when? Its been stated several times by brimstone and others that jetbike stats aren't changing.

snoogums: "Just because something is not relavant doesn't mean it goes away completely."

Iorek: "Snoogums, you're right. Your arguments are irrelevant, and they sure as heck aren't going away." 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Actually, if you put Fire Dragons in Wave Serpents instead of Falcons, Escalation is not something to fear, and terrain is not that hard to come across.

A viable tactic in Escalation is to start all off.
So that takes care of all the hoping.


Of course, the fact that Scorpions, Banshees, Harlequins, Autarch, Wraithlords, Wraithguard, Seer Council, Dark Reapers, Guardians, War Walkers, Swooping Hawks are all pretty much nonviable sucks enough as it is.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





I wouldn't include reapers in that list just yet. Their heavy slot is the only thing preventing them from being bloody awesome.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Los Angeles

Posted By The Happy Anarchist on 09/12/2006 11:13 AM
Actually, if you put Fire Dragons in Wave Serpents instead of Falcons, Escalation is not something to fear
But enemy heavy weapons are.

Unless they decide to let Wave Serpents have holofields that is (but with the energy field staying the same, that's never going to happen).

"The last known instance of common sense happened at a GT. A player tried to use the 'common sense' argument vs. Mauleed to justify his turbo-boosted bikes getting a saving throw vs. Psycannons. The player's resulting psychic death scream erased common sense from the minds of 40k players everywhere. " - Ozymandias 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





actually if you don't suck you can be as effective as ever with wave serpent mounted banshees or scorpions.  1st turn zoom 24" to somewhere reasonable, preferably out of sight but you can jsut do your best to avoid the majority of your opponents heavy weapons.  2nd turn disembark the squad 2" move 6" fleet d6" (if needed or shoot) charge 6", move the serpent and brightlance or starcannon stuff.  handy dandy turn 2 assault with specialized eldar CC units.  this works best if used with multiple transports (falcons and serpents).

also I agree that new shining spears and jetbikes will be pretty awsome.  warp spiders are decent but potentialy outclassed by the up and comming spears.  Also I will be interested to see if you can upgrade rangers to pathfinders.  I will still probably take a unit of rangers or pathfinders just cause I like the models and if they do happen to pin something or drop a monsterous critter its bonus.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Los Angeles

Posted By Lellindil on 09/12/2006 10:44 PM
actually if you don't suck you can be as effective as ever with wave serpent mounted banshees or scorpions.  1st turn zoom 24" to somewhere reasonable, preferably out of sight but you can jsut do your best to avoid the majority of your opponents heavy weapons.  2nd turn disembark the squad .

You forgot your opponent's turn 1: Serpent is blown to peices by heavy weapons, you lose 2.5 Scorpions or 3.75 Banshees, and the squad is entangled.

"[A]ctually if you don't suck..."

Charming.

"The last known instance of common sense happened at a GT. A player tried to use the 'common sense' argument vs. Mauleed to justify his turbo-boosted bikes getting a saving throw vs. Psycannons. The player's resulting psychic death scream erased common sense from the minds of 40k players everywhere. " - Ozymandias 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





...Or you buzz over and wait to get popped by a lascannon 24" from your line with no support and several wounded, pinned down and cought between your burning wreckage and a hail of bolters.

   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





...Or you buzz over and wait to get popped by a lascannon 24" from your line with no support and several wounded, pinned down and cought between your burning wreckage and a hail of bolters.


str 8 lascannon, that is glancing only. with a 24" move you should be able to control the number of shots comming at you. its not a fail safe, however it is, like i said, just as easy as it ever was.

You forgot your opponent's turn 1: Serpent is blown to peices by heavy weapons, you lose 2.5 Scorpions or 3.75 Banshees, and the squad is entangled.


that is a distinct possibility if you deploy in LOS or range. which you should avoid if at all possible. this really shouldn't be too much to ask.

I have used this strat since 4th has come out to great effect, I recomend you try it.

Charming.


I do my best =P
   
Made in ca
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!






Soviet Kanukistan

Its funny that most of the advocates for using Eldar HTH units forget that baring the unreliable FOF your units move 6", and your enemy moves 6".  So there is nothing stopping them from backing up 6" and denying your charge.
   
Made in fi
Regular Dakkanaut




Which is exactly what most shooty armies do. You withdraw the closest unit preventing an assault and still fire at full effectiveness from behind. The problem for Eldar of course is that you only need to fire once at their Aspect Warriors and they all go away.

Well, as Ed Maule once famously said: "Therion's from Finland, where comp does not exist. Where he's from the trash we're forced to field for a tournament would lose to a 12 year old." - bigchris1313 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






Las Vegas, NV

Its funny that most of the advocates for using Eldar HTH units forget that baring the unreliable FOF your units move 6", and your enemy moves 6". So there is nothing stopping them from backing up 6" and denying your charge.


Sure, eldar aren't blazingly fast, but fleet of foot ensures at least a 13" range.

Lellindil has a good point, im not syaing it will work every game, but it is in the least a viable tactic worth considering.

You move a wave serpant or two 24" to a spot within 15" of an enemy unit. That way, even if you roll a 1 on FoF, you will still be certain to make it into HtH on turn two. Yes, your transport may be destroyed, but your oponnant would have to roll a 5 or 6 on the glancing tabel to do so. In my experiance, armor 12+ skimmers are not such easy targets to destroy, much much more resiliant than a Rhino or chimera, not to mention light years faster. If you position your squad well you can at least decrease the odds of this happening.

Or, if your are able to put Harlys in a trasport, put the WS behind level 3 area terrain, out of LOS of (most) enemy units. Then, charge through the cover (if in fact the harly's keep their move through cover like open terrain rule) into your opponants squad. If he repositions to avoid your unit, then at the least his heavy weapons wont be firing and you remain as safe from harm as possible.

No it is not a failsafe tactic, but nothing is. Even drop podding is not a gaurantee of success, despite what a lot of people like to think. A bad scatter roll and you find your squad in the open with their pants around their ankles, next turn, squad gone. The point being that you should at least consider tactics before instantly discoutning them as totally obtuse. I see speed freaks armies with open toped armor 10 vehicles with weedy armor save 6 orcs make it into close combat ALL THE TIME. in fact some of the best players i know in SoCal consistantly win with the little ramshakle, non skimming truks which are far more vulnerable than Eldar Skimmers. Not that the two are an exact approximation to one another, but it can be done.

   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





The House that Peterbilt

Don't compare aspect warriors in waveserpents to truckboyz, as da orks can assault out of their moving trukks. A trukk is cheap and does its job, same as da boyz. The same can't be said for the waveserpent or the aspects.

Shining spears and harlies seem to be the only viable dedicated assault element in the new list. And by viable I mean useful in most games against competent players. However spears are neutered by cover (dangerous terrain and no grenades) and harlies are 0-1 and can only survive the trek across the board if they have veil of tears in effect (improved stealth field is nice and all but it might be negatable by a librarian).

snoogums: "Just because something is not relavant doesn't mean it goes away completely."

Iorek: "Snoogums, you're right. Your arguments are irrelevant, and they sure as heck aren't going away." 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






Las Vegas, NV

Don't compare aspect warriors in waveserpents to truckboyz, as da orks can assault out of their moving trukks. A trukk is cheap and does its job, same as da boyz. The same can't be said for the waveserpent or the aspects.


As i said, they are not an exact aproximation to one another. However, they serve similar roles, and if a truck moves 24" then the boys are not assaulting out of it, as i am sure you are well aware. But, a truck can be penetrated by dang near any weapon in the game and being open topped does not helps its survivablility. Yes they are very different, but both have their respective strengths and weaknesses.

Aspect warriors, once in combat, can hold their own. They are not chaplain lead assault

My point was that it is not constructive to instantly shoot anyone's ideas down if the differ from what the poster has put up. Why ask for tactical input from the community if you will only listen to those who repeat what you already know? How do you learn anything that way?

All i was getting at was that it was POSSIBLE to atempt new strategies. For every comment on here offering a constructive alternative to the status quo opinion on the new eldar, they get instantly shot down.

By listenting to what other people have to say, and at the least giving their ideas a fair shake, you may gain something and become a better player for it. If it is something you have tried and not been successful with, fair play, but you still should at the least respect the fact that others are trying to contribute.

Im not trying to be an arse, but it truly cant hurt to listen to others even if you fel that their knowledgeof the game may be bentath your own, you never know where a good idea may come from.

   
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Dakka Veteran




Hasn't anyone else seen the rumour roundup? As near as can be told, each round of rumours said that WS will be able to get holofields.

*EDIT*  I just double checked myself, and can't find it.
I know I saw it somewhere, but clearly I have been slowed.

Odd though, if they can't get holofields they are nearly worthless, if they can, they are nearly invincible.
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





The House that Peterbilt

As near as can be told, each round of rumours said that WS will be able to get holofields.


That is one of those grey areas. Old, now debunked, rumors stated the wave field was being replaced with the holofield. That is ceratinly not the case though. Nothing concrete has been said about wether serpents can take a holofield (and I browse the warseer eldar threads pretty regularly).

snoogums: "Just because something is not relavant doesn't mean it goes away completely."

Iorek: "Snoogums, you're right. Your arguments are irrelevant, and they sure as heck aren't going away." 
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





The House that Peterbilt

All i was getting at was that it was POSSIBLE to atempt new strategies.

His proposed strategy and tactics isn't new though. It's been discussed here before ad naseum since before 4ed came out. It simply isn't that viable in most competative environments. He also posted in a way that begged to be flamed. Otherwise I'm sure the tone of the response would be slightly less acrid.

snoogums: "Just because something is not relavant doesn't mean it goes away completely."

Iorek: "Snoogums, you're right. Your arguments are irrelevant, and they sure as heck aren't going away." 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






Las Vegas, NV

His proposed strategy and tactics isn't new though. It's been discussed here before ad naseum since before 4ed came out. It simply isn't that viable in most competative environments. He also posted in a way that begged to be flamed. Otherwise I'm sure the tone of the response would be slightly less acrid.


Fair enough, i guess i am just too much of a nice guy.

On topic:

I will try to glean some mor einfo out of my friend who has the new codex, he is tight lipped because he doesn't want to lose the privledge he has by getting his hand son these before they are available commerically, but i will ask about holo fields on the wave serpant. That would be insane, i pull my hair out trying to shoot down falcons, essentially having 5 on board would be crazy.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





My question is on HQ selection. Do you take the jetbike fortuned farseer for the 3++ shining spear squads or do you take the Autaurch for the +1 reserve roll? 10 Shining Spears with two jetbike farseers seems like a pretty rude assault block.

 
   
Made in ca
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!






Soviet Kanukistan

Technically, you can have your cake and eat it too:

Mini-codex seer's council in a wavveserpent or a falcon + Autarch as the other HQ.  Its expensive though.

   
Made in us
Confident Marauder Chieftain





Posted By bigchris1313 on 09/12/2006 11:30 PM
Posted By Lellindil on 09/12/2006 10:44 PM
actually if you don't suck you can be as effective as ever with wave serpent mounted banshees or scorpions.  1st turn zoom 24" to somewhere reasonable, preferably out of sight but you can jsut do your best to avoid the majority of your opponents heavy weapons.  2nd turn disembark the squad .

You forgot your opponent's turn 1: Serpent is blown to peices by heavy weapons, you lose 2.5 Scorpions or 3.75 Banshees, and the squad is entangled.


Only if you leave off the vectored engines, which nobody using this tactic would do.

So, you stand a chance of losing a 100+ point, non-scoring transport in exchange for being in a position to actually threaten your opponent with those CC aspects.  Making your opponent react to your moves is almost always preferable to letting him dictate the flow of the game.

   
 
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