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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Southern California

Atlatl Jones wrote:
Dew wrote:
Are three Blight Haulers effective enough anti-tank to be in this discussion with the Defiler vs PBC vs LasPredator?

That's almost like comparing apples and oranges. Blight Haulers' effective range is much shorter - 12" for maximum effectiveness - but they can move and fire without penalty, so they really are fast attack vehicles rather than heavy support. They can't park on high terrain and hit far-away tanks like the others can.


Yeah I suppose you are correct, that makes sense.
Their rule of 3 really seems to make them shine but that can get pricey.

I'm trying to fill out my heavy anti-tank slot in my army and I want to stick with Daemon engines. Really interested in the PBC vs Defiler chat to see which way to go.
   
Made in us
Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin






kilfrg7864 wrote:
Can anyone help shed some light on how they effectively use Mortarion to get in range?

I used him for the first time yesterday... but he got blown up by the end of turn one.... I try to run up bloat drones and my daemon prince with him but he just gets focused fired so hard.

I was playing on hammer and anvil deployment and it would have taken me 2-3 turns to get in charge range, theres no way he would survive that long the way im playing at least....

So yea any input would be great


Deathshroud terminators and miasma of pestilence. Remember that they have to target morty, so miasma will always give them -1 to hit, then on a +2, it just hits a terminator. The terminators have the same invul and DG save, and most weapons will be wounding them on 3s, as they would be on mortarion as well. Against small arms fire, the DSTDA are tougher than morty, as they boast a +2 save. What is really important with this is that if an opponent somehow fires 30 lascannons shots at once, you can intercept all of them. Then if the first 3 kill your deathshroud, the remaining shots are gone and cannot hurt morty. However you do not get to choose what you roll on. It's all or nothing.

The downside of this is that DS are VERY EXPENSIVE, and if they are on the table turn 1, they will probably never hurt anything. However if they die protecting morty, then they have been worthwhile. Rumor has it they will get a points drop (please please please) Big ass LoS terrain is something I almost always push for, even if I dont have anything big. It creates a need for more tactical play than just sit back and shoot. I have had loads of fun playing ring around the building with an opponent's imperial knight chasing my units in circles (not DG units, those fatties are too slow lol) While mortarions size makes him super hard to hide, getting a +1 to your save is never a bad thing.

   
Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





warptime+miasma on him...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/20 19:44:08


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Made in ar
Been Around the Block




Since our Princes can now take Warp Bolters... Are they worth it?
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




 gwarsh41 wrote:
kilfrg7864 wrote:
Can anyone help shed some light on how they effectively use Mortarion to get in range?

I used him for the first time yesterday... but he got blown up by the end of turn one.... I try to run up bloat drones and my daemon prince with him but he just gets focused fired so hard.

I was playing on hammer and anvil deployment and it would have taken me 2-3 turns to get in charge range, theres no way he would survive that long the way im playing at least....

So yea any input would be great


Deathshroud terminators and miasma of pestilence. Remember that they have to target morty, so miasma will always give them -1 to hit, then on a +2, it just hits a terminator. The terminators have the same invul and DG save, and most weapons will be wounding them on 3s, as they would be on mortarion as well. Against small arms fire, the DSTDA are tougher than morty, as they boast a +2 save. What is really important with this is that if an opponent somehow fires 30 lascannons shots at once, you can intercept all of them. Then if the first 3 kill your deathshroud, the remaining shots are gone and cannot hurt morty. However you do not get to choose what you roll on. It's all or nothing.

The downside of this is that DS are VERY EXPENSIVE, and if they are on the table turn 1, they will probably never hurt anything. However if they die protecting morty, then they have been worthwhile. Rumor has it they will get a points drop (please please please) Big ass LoS terrain is something I almost always push for, even if I dont have anything big. It creates a need for more tactical play than just sit back and shoot. I have had loads of fun playing ring around the building with an opponent's imperial knight chasing my units in circles (not DG units, those fatties are too slow lol) While mortarions size makes him super hard to hide, getting a +1 to your save is never a bad thing.


Yea. That def is an option. Just really expensive. And I do like my blightlord models haha
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




Canada

Are we able to use the Chaos Familiar stratagem from Heretic Astartes to give our Malignant Plaguecasters, Typhus, etc. psyker powers like warptime, death hex, prescience?

It says it just needs to be used on a model with "Heretic Astartes Psyker"

This is assuming that I'm already take a CSM detachment to go along with my death guard. Just want to know if I can use the option if my warptime CSM sorceror ever dies early or something like that.
   
Made in us
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





Hell Hole Washington

lucas wrote:
Are we able to use the Chaos Familiar stratagem from Heretic Astartes to give our Malignant Plaguecasters, Typhus, etc. psyker powers like warptime, death hex, prescience?

It says it just needs to be used on a model with "Heretic Astartes Psyker"

This is assuming that I'm already take a CSM detachment to go along with my death guard. Just want to know if I can use the option if my warptime CSM sorceror ever dies early or something like that.


I pretty much always ally a CSM sorcerer and heavy support CSM options like obliterators into my armies.
Death hex warp time and prescience rock. Your sorcerer has to be the one casting but these work on most/all death Guard due to them being Heratic astartes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dew wrote:
Atlatl Jones wrote:
Dew wrote:
Are three Blight Haulers effective enough anti-tank to be in this discussion with the Defiler vs PBC vs LasPredator?

That's almost like comparing apples and oranges. Blight Haulers' effective range is much shorter - 12" for maximum effectiveness - but they can move and fire without penalty, so they really are fast attack vehicles rather than heavy support. They can't park on high terrain and hit far-away tanks like the others can.


Yeah I suppose you are correct, that makes sense.
Their rule of 3 really seems to make them shine but that can get pricey.

I'm trying to fill out my heavy anti-tank slot in my army and I want to stick with Daemon engines. Really interested in the PBC vs Defiler chat to see which way to go.


I think it depends on what you want to use the slot for in game. If you are using them to hold the back field against any enemy, defilers are more versatile. I used one yesterday in two games. The strategem that let me reroll everything each turn meant he was dishing out the hurt. PBC from my perspective are not all that great. Pretty much the way I feel about defilers but a defiler is multi role. Dosnt need to be constantly babysat by your HQ to be really effective, and I like the model.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/21 00:33:58


Pestilence Provides.  
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




lucas wrote:
Are we able to use the Chaos Familiar stratagem from Heretic Astartes to give our Malignant Plaguecasters, Typhus, etc. psyker powers like warptime, death hex, prescience?

It says it just needs to be used on a model with "Heretic Astartes Psyker"

This is assuming that I'm already take a CSM detachment to go along with my death guard. Just want to know if I can use the option if my warptime CSM sorceror ever dies early or something like that.


If you have a CSM detachment it enables you to use the stratagem Chaos Familiar, so yes you can use it on heretic astartes psykers. It can even be used with Mortarion to give himself warptime. Neat stuff.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/21 05:34:49


 
   
Made in hk
Fresh-Faced New User




I am going to against a space wolf player this Friday (1000pts). Any strategy suggest? Don't want to lose this time:(.Thanks! Below is his list:

Spacewolf Patrol:
-----------------------HQ---------------------------------------------------
-Stormcaller with T armor
-Wolf guard battle leader on wolf
----------------------Troops------------------------------------------------
- Blood Claws with leader (9)
- Greyhunter with leader (9)+Wolf guard with storm bolter x 1
---------------------Elite----------------------------------------------------
-Lukas the trickster
-Wulfen with leader (5):
4x frost claws,1x storm shield with Thunder Hammer
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A drop pod
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would like to use:
Death guard Outrider + Super heavy Aux:
Mortarion, 3 x FBD(2x Spitters,1x Fleshmower) and 1 lord.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Kzraahk wrote:
Since our Princes can now take Warp Bolters... Are they worth it?


They cannot. See here:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/744846.page

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in us
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





Hell Hole Washington

Interesting.
Just ran the math hammer on bloat mowers and daemon prince versus Vehicles.

By themselves a bloat mower isn’t all that good. However, when you pair them with a Daemon Prince with arch contaminator, things start to get good. They actually out perform a daemonprince with an ax when compared point to point Vs Vehicles, but only when paired with the prince.

I recently ran a arch contaminator prince and three bloat drones with plague spitters against a Guard army that was mostly vehicles. I nearly tabled him. If I added three more drones with mowers I can see it being a reL hassel to deal with.

Pestilence Provides.  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






Deck1026 wrote:
I am going to against a space wolf player this Friday (1000pts). Any strategy suggest? Don't want to lose this time:(.Thanks! Below is his list:

Spacewolf Patrol:
-----------------------HQ---------------------------------------------------
-Stormcaller with T armor
-Wolf guard battle leader on wolf
----------------------Troops------------------------------------------------
- Blood Claws with leader (9)
- Greyhunter with leader (9)+Wolf guard with storm bolter x 1
---------------------Elite----------------------------------------------------
-Lukas the trickster
-Wulfen with leader (5):
4x frost claws,1x storm shield with Thunder Hammer
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A drop pod
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would like to use:
Death guard Outrider + Super heavy Aux:
Mortarion, 3 x FBD(2x Spitters,1x Fleshmower) and 1 lord.


You're taking mortarion against space wolves at just 1000 point? Come on man you're gonna faceroll him, give him a chance
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Southern California

 sennacherib wrote:
Interesting.
Just ran the math hammer on bloat mowers and daemon prince versus Vehicles.

By themselves a bloat mower isn’t all that good. However, when you pair them with a Daemon Prince with arch contaminator, things start to get good. They actually out perform a daemonprince with an ax when compared point to point Vs Vehicles, but only when paired with the prince.

I recently ran a arch contaminator prince and three bloat drones with plague spitters against a Guard army that was mostly vehicles. I nearly tabled him. If I added three more drones with mowers I can see it being a reL hassel to deal with.


Great to hear. I play a lot of Guard armies and I am planning to run a DP with 2 or 3 drone buddies to get in there and wreck face asap. I want several drones to be a buzzing pain in the ass
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




 sennacherib wrote:
Interesting.
Just ran the math hammer on bloat mowers and daemon prince versus Vehicles.

By themselves a bloat mower isn’t all that good. However, when you pair them with a Daemon Prince with arch contaminator, things start to get good. They actually out perform a daemonprince with an ax when compared point to point Vs Vehicles, but only when paired with the prince.

I recently ran a arch contaminator prince and three bloat drones with plague spitters against a Guard army that was mostly vehicles. I nearly tabled him. If I added three more drones with mowers I can see it being a reL hassel to deal with.


Yeah, this is something that I pointed out earlieri n the thread but many just brushed it off. Daemon Prince with Arch-Contaminator + Fleshmower = Awesome force multiplier. No doubt the Plaguespitter bloat drones are probably our best setup but people shouldn't discount the flesh mower backed by a Daemon Prince.
   
Made in us
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





Hell Hole Washington

On average the bloat drone with death spitters only causes 1.92 hullpoints damage and maxes at at 2.1 damage if you roll 12 hits vrs a T7 3+ Vehicle with arch contaminator backing. It will only kill 3 marines on average.

By contrast a bloat mower with prince backup does 5.3 wounds to a Vehicle on average and kills 3.5 marines. They are significantly better against vehicles and slightly better against marines.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/21 19:55:17


Pestilence Provides.  
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Food for thought

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1927707404216556&id=1575682476085719

DFTT 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Plague marines are confirmed to get a price reduction.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







Wow that is huge
   
Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





yes 2 points less

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Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





Glad to see Plague Marines as cheap as they have ever been. Still.... Hard for me to fit them in most lists. Triple plasma is still the best way to run them?
   
Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





also with a 2pts discount competitive lists wont play them.

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Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





[DOUBLE POST]

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/22 20:15:24


 
   
Made in de
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





Good days for my DG. I always run at least 2 squads of PM and they are getting cheaper and cheaper that edition They also got their ability back to give the champion Combi- or power weapons, with the FAQ. Seems like all the conversion work and magnetizing from last edition wasn't useless.
With only 17points I'm even tempted to try out a 20man squad supported by some of our Elite dudes.
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






Didn't Blight Launchers go down in price, as well? If so, are they now something to consider in place of Plasma, especially in concert with the Arch-Contaminator WT?

Lord Judicator Valdrakh of the Atun Dynasty (6th Ed: W:3, L:4, D:0)

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Well GW were mostly responsible for the Berlin Wall, so it's natural for some people to harbour resentment towards them.
 
   
Made in it
Regular Dakkanaut







Tha's amazing! I always played like the trait was not affected, but if you think about... all the information about a model should be in its datasheet, so the archcontaminator has 10' with the Helm, fantastic!
With the 2pts discount on PMs and 4pts discount on the blightlauncher (the rumors were right so far), the DG gunline supported by a Prince becomes almost mandatory.
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




Canada

What are you guys finding as a good minimum for CSM battalions in your death guard lists? I'm mainly trying to get a sorceror and some anti-tank in my list, so what should I do?

Sorceror x2, cultists x3, and obliterators?

I've heard Alpha Legion to be good so the cultists can infiltrate, just unsure of what I should leave points for.
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





lucas wrote:
What are you guys finding as a good minimum for CSM battalions in your death guard lists? I'm mainly trying to get a sorceror and some anti-tank in my list, so what should I do?

Sorceror x2, cultists x3, and obliterators?

I've heard Alpha Legion to be good so the cultists can infiltrate, just unsure of what I should leave points for.


I dont have much experience or tactical need for Sorcerers, but I've been bringing a cheap jump Lord for 100 points, and then oblits, Heldrakes, and a Slaanesh prince with the IW armor and Delightful agonies to double up on 2+ FNP princes.

One unit of Nurgle Oblits, one unit Slaanesh Oblits. The Lord can buff both Oblits in a double drop and the princes can buff their respective marks as need be.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/23 03:16:59


 
   
Made in au
Hissing Hybrid Metamorph






So I have a couple more questions for you guys, as I'm not very good when it comes to rules:

1) What's a good dakka unit we have? I'm sort of struggling with damage output atm, my Plagueburst Crawlers are okay but they're pretty unreliable.
2) I know they're hardly strong but would swapping my 20 pox walkers out for cultists be a good idea, or are pox walkers worth it?
3) Are beasts of Nurgle good, and what role do they fill?
4) Mortarion always seems to only just make it into melee before he dies for me, killing only a couple of enemies. Apart from Warptime, is there some effective way of getting him into melee without getting wrecked? Currently he's a 500pt distraction in my army

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/23 04:08:32


 
   
Made in us
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





Hell Hole Washington

1. Predators with las cannons or allied obliterators for anti tank. Dakka dreads with las ml are ok but get killed quick.
2.swap out you PM and add the cultists with the pox walkers. Use the dead walk on the pox walkers and the cloud of flies. They kill cultists. You get pox walkers. Win win.
3. Not sure.
4. Give him miasma of pestilence and then use 1 cp to give him warp time saving you from allying in a sorcerer. Not sure though since I don’t use mortarion in my lists.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/23 04:25:15


Pestilence Provides.  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 sennacherib wrote:
broxus wrote:
 sennacherib wrote:
broxus wrote:
 sennacherib wrote:
Yes they do loose fire support ability when they advance. That’s why I usually post it up as a shooter next to a objective. It can pump out the damage each turn at range and if the enemy is foolish enough to deep strike something nearby to take the objective, well let’s just say that they don’t live long. Or at least that’s the plan.


Won’t a PBC do more damage, is harder to kill, and is cheaper? It is better to be good at either shooting or close combat, not both. I hate paying for rules I don't get to use. If they get another points drop per the rumors they may be worth looking at.


PBC only do more damage when paired with a lord with arch contaminator. They are also way less punchy in melee. Likely why defilers cost more. Real problem with defilers is that they are jack of all trades master of none.



In shooting PBC do more damage than defilers regardless of heroes. It also does more damage than a predator with 4-las cannons


Not entirely true. Predators do 5.08 wounds to tanks. Pbc do 3.82.
Pbc do in fact do about .38 wounds more to a tank than a defiler. Defiler however can re roll to hit and to wound for a whole phase for 1 cp bumping their damage output by a significant level. They are also punchier which makes them better in the back field to guard objectives, and their range is significantly longer.


Your math is wrong. Make sure you account for all three PBC weapons and account for the rerolling of ones for the mortar.

Against T7, 3+ save units a 4-las predator does 5.2 damage.
Against T7, 3+ save units a PBC does 4.5 damage.


http://www.mathhammer8thed.com


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/23 19:09:20


 
   
 
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