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Backfire wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
You make a good point. Darth Maul died in a movie, came back in a cartoon show, and appears without further explanation in another movie. The strong implication being, episodes of a TV show are as relevant as movies. Which is just incorrect. There are a lot of people, like Thargrim above, who will see a movie but who are not going to watch TV shows much less read novels and comic books.

So because I have yet to read Silmarillion that's not part of LOTR cannon?

Offtopic road!
Lot of the Tolkienists are of opinion that only Middle-Earth canon is the LOTR book and its appendices. Hobbit is seen un-canonical (in fact Tolkien edited it in later printings to make it bit more canonical). Silmarillion was put together by Christopher and Guy Kay and as published it was more like 'interpretation' of Tolkiens ideas.

That's a shame. The Silmarillion is by far my favorite of the three Tolkien works I've read, with LOTR my least favorite. It's less a narrative than a Codex: Middle Earth Elves, but it has a lot more fantasy elements and more interesting characters drawn much more succinctly. And the original Hobbit was a better read. (Has anyone ever rewritten an early novel to fit in a later series and had it not turn out clunky?)

However, you should not have to have read Silmarillion to understand LOTR. (In fact, I recommend you don't read it until after you finish LOTR because it will strip away all of the mystery and epic nature of LOTR.). I feel that it's important for any story to be self contained, at least within the single primary narrative (main series, for example). Any time you have to jump media to understand the story, it's a disaster and asking far too much of the customer. You shouldn't have to watch a TV series to understand a movie, nor watch a movie to understand a TV series, and throwing comics or novels into the mix, which share different types of information with totally different viewpoints, can shatter the spell of the narrative.

And you don't HAVE to watch the Clone Wars or Rebels series to understand Solo or that, somehow, Maul managed to survive to be in the movie.

 Vulcan wrote:
And you don't HAVE to watch the Clone Wars or Rebels series to understand Solo or that, somehow, Maul managed to survive to be in the movie.

Indeed. Its just a hook to get people to maybe look up the other stuff.

Now if Maul had been a major character in Solo, maybe then we could complain about him being tossed in there. But as it is its maybe 10-15 seconds of screentime. A cameo appearance.

Given that SW movies are supposedly going to be slowing down and the fact that Disney is going to be doing some Marvel tv shows with their big name actors I wonder if we would ever see Solo continue on the small screen?

A short series with Maul and Qi'ra would be pretty awesome and probably tell a better tale than could be made through a movie anyway. In fact, a lot of Star Wars would work much better on tv as there is so much more time to work on smaller stories. In my opinion, TLJ would have been fantastic a a mini-series as it had a very Battlestar Galactica vibe but had to rush through everything too fast.

Guess we will have to wait to see what Favreau's show will end up like but I hope it is the start of something awesome...

Wasn’t there some chatter about a live tv show?

Somebody posted a deleted scene on youtube where young solo is piloting a crashing tie craft (fighter? bomber?) and a subsequent court martial type scene. It's supposed to be between the recruiter calling him 'Solo' and his first scene as an infantry grunt.

I thought it would have been kinda cool if that could have left that in.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Wasn’t there some chatter about a live tv show?

It was announced at the same time as Reisistance but there has been no further detail.

 ingtaer wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Wasn’t there some chatter about a live tv show?

It was announced at the same time as Reisistance but there has been no further detail.

It's also been in the works in one form or another for like.... 20 years.

 Lance845 wrote:

 ingtaer wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Wasn’t there some chatter about a live tv show?

It was announced at the same time as Reisistance but there has been no further detail.

It's also been in the works in one form or another for like.... 20 years.

With the announcement of the film slow down I think it could be another 20 years.

 Commander Cain wrote:
In my opinion, TLJ would have been fantastic a a mini-series as it had a very Battlestar Galactica vibe but had to rush through everything too fast.

Well they did blatantly rip of the episode "33" but managed to take all the style, pace and tension out of it. I can;t see how they rushed it - they had endless tedious shots os small dots moving slowly, oh so slowly across the starscape like an old Windows screensaver.

Small screen is very popular for actors at the moment and some big budgets.

 privateer4hire wrote:
Somebody posted a deleted scene on youtube where young solo is piloting a crashing tie craft (fighter? bomber?) and a subsequent court martial type scene. It's supposed to be between the recruiter calling him 'Solo' and his first scene as an infantry grunt.

I thought it would have been kinda cool if that could have left that in.

Yeah it's in the extras deleted scenes the CGI is incomplete (as it is for most of deleted scenes) but with a few tweaks it should have been left in and wouldn't overly affect the running time. The snowball fight deleted scene is just weird it almost looks ad libbed with Woody Harrelson just standing looking on not sure whats going on.

The TV show is being run by Jon Favreau so it's in good hands. It's set 7 years after RoTJ so hopefully it will show the rise of the First Order and give a bit of back story to Snoke although it's rumoured to be set on a post Empire Mandalore. A post Solo TV show could work Emilia Clarke is out of a job soon and Ray Park won't say no to a steady pay cheque.

I think Solo would have done much better is it had been released after Rogue One and before TLJ.

I think it would have done even better if it had been released right after TFA.

Or not in the week after infinity war and before deadpool 2.

Yeah. I don't know who made the boneheaded decision to release anything anywhere near Infinity War and Deadpool 2. Nothing besides a full on star wars movie could, maybe, compete with that. Not a stand-alone that the market was lukewarm on.

They could have released it earlier or later in the summer. Labor day might not have been a terrible idea.

I just don't get why they didn't decide to do. "Christmas time is Star Wars time" and release it at the same point as TLJ.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yeah. I don't know who made the boneheaded decision to release anything anywhere near Infinity War and Deadpool 2. Nothing besides a full on star wars movie could, maybe, compete with that. Not a stand-alone that the market was lukewarm on.

They could have released it earlier or later in the summer. Labor day might not have been a terrible idea.

No no. It’s about Han, not Luke.....

I thank you.

 Compel wrote:
I just don't get why they didn't decide to do. "Christmas time is Star Wars time" and release it at the same point as TLJ.

That conversation was probably had in the company as well.

So I noticed Solo is available on demand. I am still not going to rent it.

When it's on tv some day I might.

As for Darth Maul, I feel like it's fan service. They really should have left him dead. I don't watch the cartoons so I have no idea what he's been up to there, but the universe is a big place. Let him RIP and create a new character.

It is amazing though, how cool some of the villains look in Star Wars, and how classic they are when we have seen so little of them. Not just Boba and Darth Maul, but also Bossk, IG-88, and so on. I really don't need background stories on these guys. And some times, its a little ridiculous. Like the band in the cantina in A New Hope. I happen to read up on them one day while on wiki, and was surprised all the attention to detail that was given. And the fluff was like, oh they were some really popular band on tour or some crap like that. I felt the cantina was nothing more than a dive bar, and if those guys could get off Tatooine they would have. But instead they were stuck on a miserable rock when I am sure there were better places in the galaxy to play, they just couldn't afford to get off it.

If they were playing in a stadium, sure, rock band status.

So sometimes I just roll my eyes at the background.

Most of the background lore wasn't really a part of the production of the original movies. They're very much a product of people endlessly rewatching the films and demanding endless details made up after the fact and further endless demands that the logic remains air tight. My head hurts so much when it comes to things like the two women in the Cantina who are pretending to be famous con artists and if you think that's bad, look up Willrow Hood and WEEP for humanity.

 Manchu wrote:
That’s definitely true. I still read comments about bad acting even despite the acting in the final product being OK to great. Those leaks and rumors were very harmful.

But I think TLJ really hurt the brand. Yes, you have people like me who really hate the movie - and most people don’t care to that level, they’re not even capable of caring that much about some Star Wars movie. That right there is a big part of the issue: people who can take or leave SW, i.e. the vast majority of people, were not motivated by it to go see more SW. Contrast to Black Panther and Infinity War, which drove interest in the MCU brand. People who walked out of TLJ not hating TLJ also were not biting at the bit to see another SW film any time soon. When people left the theater after seeing TFA, however, many were ready for another SW picture ASAP.

Then again as much as I hate to say it TLJ not only made huge bucks but also reviews seems to have been pretty darn high outside hardcore fans...Maybe Disney considers hardcore fans acceptable casualties as they form too small minority to affect.

https://mashable.com/2017/12/20/last-jedi-poll/?europe=true#MgkSOueDSiqg

And when you make about billion profit...

Hate to say it but while Disney has put SW out of my interest list it works for them. What do they care about my feelings when they gain more than 1 customer instead.

TLJ making a huge amount of money can be attributed to momentum. People were pumped for it after seeing TFA, so they all went to see TLJ. That would have happened no matter how good a movie is.

Sequels tend to ride the success of the preceding movie when it comes to the box office. Its only after the fact that the true success of a sequel can be measured.

 Grey Templar wrote:
TLJ making a huge amount of money can be attributed to momentum. People were pumped for it after seeing TFA, so they all went to see TLJ. That would have happened no matter how good a movie is.

Sequels tend to ride the success of the preceding movie when it comes to the box office. Its only after the fact that the true success of a sequel can be measured.

Agreed, my friends and I wasted time and money watching that drek.

And No we are not "Superfans" or "racists" or any of the usual labels that are slapped on anyone who dares say anything bad about this film. e went to be entertained - we were not. At all.

tneva82 wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
That’s definitely true. I still read comments about bad acting even despite the acting in the final product being OK to great. Those leaks and rumors were very harmful.

But I think TLJ really hurt the brand. Yes, you have people like me who really hate the movie - and most people don’t care to that level, they’re not even capable of caring that much about some Star Wars movie. That right there is a big part of the issue: people who can take or leave SW, i.e. the vast majority of people, were not motivated by it to go see more SW. Contrast to Black Panther and Infinity War, which drove interest in the MCU brand. People who walked out of TLJ not hating TLJ also were not biting at the bit to see another SW film any time soon. When people left the theater after seeing TFA, however, many were ready for another SW picture ASAP.

Then again as much as I hate to say it TLJ not only made huge bucks but also reviews seems to have been pretty darn high outside hardcore fans...Maybe Disney considers hardcore fans acceptable casualties as they form too small minority to affect.

https://mashable.com/2017/12/20/last-jedi-poll/?europe=true#MgkSOueDSiqg

And when you make about billion profit...

Hate to say it but while Disney has put SW out of my interest list it works for them. What do they care about my feelings when they gain more than 1 customer instead.

However, the huge decline in toys sales and other merchandising sales indicates that the hardcore fans really made the franchise as a whole profitable as opposed to individual movies. It wouldn't matter if Solo was a box office flop if kids/collectors still wanted the toys.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
That’s definitely true. I still read comments about bad acting even despite the acting in the final product being OK to great. Those leaks and rumors were very harmful.

But I think TLJ really hurt the brand. Yes, you have people like me who really hate the movie - and most people don’t care to that level, they’re not even capable of caring that much about some Star Wars movie. That right there is a big part of the issue: people who can take or leave SW, i.e. the vast majority of people, were not motivated by it to go see more SW. Contrast to Black Panther and Infinity War, which drove interest in the MCU brand. People who walked out of TLJ not hating TLJ also were not biting at the bit to see another SW film any time soon. When people left the theater after seeing TFA, however, many were ready for another SW picture ASAP.

Then again as much as I hate to say it TLJ not only made huge bucks but also reviews seems to have been pretty darn high outside hardcore fans...Maybe Disney considers hardcore fans acceptable casualties as they form too small minority to affect.

https://mashable.com/2017/12/20/last-jedi-poll/?europe=true#MgkSOueDSiqg

And when you make about billion profit...

Hate to say it but while Disney has put SW out of my interest list it works for them. What do they care about my feelings when they gain more than 1 customer instead.

However, the huge decline in toys sales and other merchandising sales indicates that the hardcore fans really made the franchise as a whole profitable as opposed to individual movies. It wouldn't matter if Solo was a box office flop if kids/collectors still wanted the toys.

Say what you want about the prequels, but at least the designs for them and the ideas for toys they had were a hell of a lot more interesting than the re-hash equivalents in the newest trilogy. The droid army and the GAR both had enough variation and meaning in the conflict that it felt like the title "Star Wars", not the current weak fart of an attempt between the practically non-existent Resistance and First Order. Removed - BrookM

KTG17 wrote:Like the band in the cantina in A New Hope. I happen to read up on them one day while on wiki, and was surprised all the attention to detail that was given. And the fluff was like, oh they were some really popular band on tour or some crap like that...

Figrin D'an and the Modal Nodes! (I might have the apostrophe wrong)

LunarSol wrote:My head hurts so much when it comes to things like the two women in the Cantina who are pretending to be famous con artists ...

Ha! Shada Dukal and one of the other Mistryl Shadow Guard pretending to be the Tonnika sisters!

Yes those did both come from memory, I didn't even have to check the Tales of the Mos Eisley Cantina that is one of the few SW publications I still own.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
That’s definitely true. I still read comments about bad acting even despite the acting in the final product being OK to great. Those leaks and rumors were very harmful.

But I think TLJ really hurt the brand. Yes, you have people like me who really hate the movie - and most people don’t care to that level, they’re not even capable of caring that much about some Star Wars movie. That right there is a big part of the issue: people who can take or leave SW, i.e. the vast majority of people, were not motivated by it to go see more SW. Contrast to Black Panther and Infinity War, which drove interest in the MCU brand. People who walked out of TLJ not hating TLJ also were not biting at the bit to see another SW film any time soon. When people left the theater after seeing TFA, however, many were ready for another SW picture ASAP.

Then again as much as I hate to say it TLJ not only made huge bucks but also reviews seems to have been pretty darn high outside hardcore fans...Maybe Disney considers hardcore fans acceptable casualties as they form too small minority to affect.

https://mashable.com/2017/12/20/last-jedi-poll/?europe=true#MgkSOueDSiqg

And when you make about billion profit...

Hate to say it but while Disney has put SW out of my interest list it works for them. What do they care about my feelings when they gain more than 1 customer instead.

However, the huge decline in toys sales and other merchandising sales indicates that the hardcore fans really made the franchise as a whole profitable as opposed to individual movies. It wouldn't matter if Solo was a box office flop if kids/collectors still wanted the toys.

Toys in terms of production values are worse, but the price higher.

 Grey Templar wrote:
TLJ making a huge amount of money can be attributed to momentum. People were pumped for it after seeing TFA, so they all went to see TLJ. That would have happened no matter how good a movie is.

Sequels tend to ride the success of the preceding movie when it comes to the box office. Its only after the fact that the true success of a sequel can be measured.

That does not explain high praise from people who have seen it. Yes loud complains too but a) how much of that is same group making lots of noise b) unhappy ones are always louder than happy ones

tneva82 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
TLJ making a huge amount of money can be attributed to momentum. People were pumped for it after seeing TFA, so they all went to see TLJ. That would have happened no matter how good a movie is.

Sequels tend to ride the success of the preceding movie when it comes to the box office. Its only after the fact that the true success of a sequel can be measured.

That does not explain high praise from people who have seen it. Yes loud complains too but a) how much of that is same group making lots of noise b) unhappy ones are always louder than happy ones

People like different things - but unlike those who dare critisce this film the people who like it are not accused of things or pigeon holed into being "Superfans" - even if they have only seen a couple of SW films .

.......and of course we also had copy paste reviews praising the film by the bucket load.

tneva82 wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
That’s definitely true. I still read comments about bad acting even despite the acting in the final product being OK to great. Those leaks and rumors were very harmful.

But I think TLJ really hurt the brand. Yes, you have people like me who really hate the movie - and most people don’t care to that level, they’re not even capable of caring that much about some Star Wars movie. That right there is a big part of the issue: people who can take or leave SW, i.e. the vast majority of people, were not motivated by it to go see more SW. Contrast to Black Panther and Infinity War, which drove interest in the MCU brand. People who walked out of TLJ not hating TLJ also were not biting at the bit to see another SW film any time soon. When people left the theater after seeing TFA, however, many were ready for another SW picture ASAP.

Then again as much as I hate to say it TLJ not only made huge bucks but also reviews seems to have been pretty darn high outside hardcore fans...Maybe Disney considers hardcore fans acceptable casualties as they form too small minority to affect.

https://mashable.com/2017/12/20/last-jedi-poll/?europe=true#MgkSOueDSiqg

And when you make about billion profit...

Hate to say it but while Disney has put SW out of my interest list it works for them. What do they care about my feelings when they gain more than 1 customer instead.

Yeah, it made a lot of money. TFA made more, as I recall, something like $1.4 billion in profit. Ticket sales for TLJ dropped off MUCH faster than ticket sales for TFA did. And then we have poor Solo taking it in the neck and pretty much breaking even.

Episode IX is going to tell the tale, as to whether chasing away all the fans in the hope of attracting a new audience will work. I know what I expect, but hey, I've been wrong before. It's possible I'm wrong here too.

Whatever the case, you're not getting me into the theater opening night even at gunpoint. Ain't happening. You can't PAY me enough. (Well, you could, but it'll take five figures.... and the first one won't be a one.) Which will make the second time in my adult life (Solo was the first) that I'll be missing opening night at a SW film. And Solo I would have gone if someone else had bought the ticket...