Switch Theme:

Game of Thrones Season 8. Speculation and spoilers.  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 BaconCatBug wrote:
 Kroem wrote:
I can see the night's watch still being necessary to combat wildling raids, especially now there is a massive great hole in Hadrians wall! It saves the Northmen the men and coin necessary to maintain a permanent garrison there at least.

The Whitewalkers ending was really weird, I was expecting something more involved than one episode to defeat them after all that buildup.
What raids? Jon literally invited the Wildlings to live south of wall.
Which added to the weirdness of it. Even before the Others started creating problems the Wildlings seemingly wanted to get south of the wall, now they have an opportunity and they just go back north?
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

 BaconCatBug wrote:
So... What's the deal with the kids the Night Walkers take? I guess they subverted our expectations about expecting subplots to be wrapped up!


Thats how new White Walkers are made. So presumably they all died when the Night King got killed too just like the rest of the goonies.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in gb
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'





Dorset, England

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
 Kroem wrote:
I can see the night's watch still being necessary to combat wildling raids, especially now there is a massive great hole in Hadrians wall! It saves the Northmen the men and coin necessary to maintain a permanent garrison there at least.

The Whitewalkers ending was really weird, I was expecting something more involved than one episode to defeat them after all that buildup.
What raids? Jon literally invited the Wildlings to live south of wall.
Which added to the weirdness of it. Even before the Others started creating problems the Wildlings seemingly wanted to get south of the wall, now they have an opportunity and they just go back north?

Well yea but the grass is always greener. They saw how bad it was south of the wall with everyone killing everybody about who kneels to whom, and so decided north of the wall was better.

Just becasue they don't want to live south of the wall doesn't mean they won't raid though, talking things from the soft southerners is always going to be an enticing prospect for an enterprising wildling after all!

Tormund just deciding they didn't want to stay was silly anyway, what happened to the clans getting together to decide things?
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Kroem wrote:
Isn't the Iron Islands an elective monarchy? Like people said Tyrion doesn't have our historical examples.

I think an expectation that the series was going to propose a solution to civil wars in general is a bit much, we haven't worked that one out in real life!
The story had to end the War of Five Kings with all sides bloody, exhausted and desperate for peace.


Five Kings was a serious underestimate. In the end wasn't there like six kings (7 if you count Mance) and three or four queens?

Iron Islands held Kingsmoot when succession was unclear, I think. Not after every king. Any way, Moot they held after Balon died was first in many centuries.

Mr Vetock, give back my Multi-tracker! 
   
Made in be
Courageous Beastmaster





7 counting Mance and Viserys/Dany.




 
   
Made in nl
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc





It was a pretty big list if you count all the separate revolts claiming to be king/queen/independent.

Mance(questionable)
Stannis
Robb
Jon
Balon
Euron
Renly
Joffrey
Tommen
Cercei
Dany
Does the coup in Dorne count, can't remember if they immediately jumped on board with Dany. Feels like Yara doesn't because she never really went independent after Euron defeated her. Sansa really only crowning herself after it was done so maybe not either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kroem wrote:
Tormund just deciding they didn't want to stay was silly anyway, what happened to the clans getting together to decide things?

To be fair they made it seem like those few dozen wildlings were what was left after the NK got done in.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/06/02 16:20:29


Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
1750 pts Blood Specters
2000 pts Imperial Fists
6000 pts Disciples of Fate
3500 pts Peridia Prime
2500 pts Prophets of Fate
Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
Tomb Kings 1500 points Sekhra (RIP) 
   
Made in gb
Princeps of the Emperor's Titan!






Out of those vying for the Throne, I’ll never understand Renly’s Claim.

Even if the truth about Cersei’s kids was proven, it’s still Stannis that’s next in line.

Is there more in the books to explain that?

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives?Why not join us?

 
   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison




Bristol

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Out of those vying for the Throne, I’ll never understand Renly’s Claim.

Even if the truth about Cersei’s kids was proven, it’s still Stannis that’s next in line.

Is there more in the books to explain that?


People didn't want Stannis and Renly was the next in line after him. Renly is more malleable than Stannis.

The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Renly was power hungry like everyone else. And being more likable he had more initial support.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council




USA

Renly's position seemed to be that Stannis was cold and didn't care about people... which to be fair is true. But Renly also seemed delusionally self-absorbed. Of course, that anyone supported Renly at all tells you the only real rule of a medieval claim to the throne.

Do you have enough men at arms to back up your claim?

   
Made in gb
Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






UK

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Out of those vying for the Throne, I’ll never understand Renly’s Claim.

Even if the truth about Cersei’s kids was proven, it’s still Stannis that’s next in line.

Is there more in the books to explain that?


Being of the right bloodline is enough - hell even being married to the right member of a royal bloodline is enough - have a read through the Britsh Royal family and all the various branches of trees and whole new trees.

The Barathons are usurpers so always uncertain about passing it down for a few generations.

Also might makes right - if you have a vague claim as most of the major families in Westros will do you just fight, bribe, coerce and bluff your way to the throne. religion sometimes plays a part but thw writters gave up on that thrread after they blew up their equivalent of the vatican.

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Chicago, Illinois

Thats why the ending is so damn bizzare...

An oligarchy didn't break the wheel it created a new one, probably worse than before, everyone will have their own agendas and the entire culture is screwed if there is a major war and the king dies.

I get wanting to 'select' a king. But do they really need a king? What about a constitutional monarchy? A parliament of lords? Or maybe a Senate similar to rome? We rushed so much, I am guessing that from what i know about the countries in this world that : Dorne and the Iron Island will secede because the north was allowed to.

This ending is so bizzare. Its hilarious how they didn't think through "wait if the north leaves what is the point of the others staying?"

Then we have the point of "Why did the night king die?"

If most of the world had not seen the white walkers how would they even know it existed? Very few consequences and other important background objects were explored at all!

Its so damn puzzling!

Even if i think "Oh bran will be a great king."

I still come back to the thought of:

"Umm what happens to the rest of the country then?"

we have little to no context or idea of what is going on in the country.
   
Made in gb
Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






UK

 Asherian Command wrote:
Thats why the ending is so damn bizzare...

An oligarchy didn't break the wheel it created a new one, probably worse than before, everyone will have their own agendas and the entire culture is screwed if there is a major war and the king dies.

I get wanting to 'select' a king. But do they really need a king? What about a constitutional monarchy? A parliament of lords? Or maybe a Senate similar to rome? We rushed so much, I am guessing that from what i know about the countries in this world that : Dorne and the Iron Island will secede because the north was allowed to.

This ending is so bizzare. Its hilarious how they didn't think through "wait if the north leaves what is the point of the others staying?"

Then we have the point of "Why did the night king die?"

If most of the world had not seen the white walkers how would they even know it existed? Very few consequences and other important background objects were explored at all!

Its so damn puzzling!

Even if i think "Oh bran will be a great king."

I still come back to the thought of:

"Umm what happens to the rest of the country then?"

we have little to no context or idea of what is going on in the country.


All true

I think they just had a bucket list of things they had to finish with (some from GRM) and just did it.

So Bran is King cos Bran is king
Dany becomes the evil villain because she does

Very little makes anysense but "it doesn't really matter as the show is ending" and so and so on.

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA

This is Game of Thrones. Bran's reign will probably end with him dying of tetanus, or food poisoning. If GRR Martin writes it, definitely food poisoning, lol.



"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."  
   
Made in gb
Princeps of the Emperor's Titan!






 Mr Morden wrote:
 Asherian Command wrote:
Thats why the ending is so damn bizzare...

An oligarchy didn't break the wheel it created a new one, probably worse than before, everyone will have their own agendas and the entire culture is screwed if there is a major war and the king dies.

I get wanting to 'select' a king. But do they really need a king? What about a constitutional monarchy? A parliament of lords? Or maybe a Senate similar to rome? We rushed so much, I am guessing that from what i know about the countries in this world that : Dorne and the Iron Island will secede because the north was allowed to.

This ending is so bizzare. Its hilarious how they didn't think through "wait if the north leaves what is the point of the others staying?"

Then we have the point of "Why did the night king die?"

If most of the world had not seen the white walkers how would they even know it existed? Very few consequences and other important background objects were explored at all!

Its so damn puzzling!

Even if i think "Oh bran will be a great king."

I still come back to the thought of:

"Umm what happens to the rest of the country then?"

we have little to no context or idea of what is going on in the country.


All true

I think they just had a bucket list of things they had to finish with (some from GRM) and just did it.

So Bran is King cos Bran is king
Dany becomes the evil villain because she does

Very little makes anysense but "it doesn't really matter as the show is ending" and so and so on.


One needs to look to the rough take on English History that forms the backbone of GoT setting.

At the start, there’s an Absolute Monarchy, determined solely by Conquest or Bloodline.

Those are pretty crap as it turns out. Inbreeding is rampant to keep bloodlines pure. It can also mean political wrangling to secure advantageous marriages.

Bran being an Elected King is kind of their Magna Carta moment, after a fashion. Suddenly, the monarch relies on popular support from the Barony. They’ll be the ones to select the next ruler from among their number. Whilst far from perfect, that instantly makes the old political machinations somewhat defunct. Olenna (Gods rest her, she was one tough old bat) could no longer just throw her money and Grand Daughter at whomever she felt was the most eligible bachelor and have success.

Instead, the shape of the game changes. It becomes about wider cooperation. Seeking the Good Of The Realm, not the Knob Of The Right Bloke. If your preferred option is seen to be wise, ruthless and compassionate in the right mix for the prevailing conditions, you’ve got at least a shoe-in. Crucially, it means you risk alienating certain families (those with a vote) at your own peril.

It’s a very different political atmosphere. By all means it’s one a clever person can navigate to their own advantage. But the Master Players Of Old, and their playbooks just went right out the window.

That all helps build the period of stability so desperately needed, even before you factor in Bran knowing everything for the rest of his natural life.

Sure, sooner or later the flaws will be exposed. But not for a generation or two. In terms of medieval history, that’s a surprisingly long time. Seriously. Go back and look at the history of English Monarchy. Even post Magna Carta, it was Bloodline or Conquest.

Hell, that crapshoot continued into the 20th Century, when Queen Victoria’s ‘not a bad plan on the face of it’ to create a Grand Dynasty went horribly, horribly wrong. Directly leading to the wider mess we’re in today.

I’ll leave off here, because once again I risk getting too political. The bits I’ve mentioned, worth reading up on And yes, I’ve probably missed out significant bits.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives?Why not join us?

 
   
Made in gb
Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






UK

Bran really doesn't know everything even if everything is pre-determined - in which case he can't do anything anyway because its goign to happen - so really is Bran the Pointless

If its not (which seesm to be the case) the very best he can know is the most likely events and then try and twist it to suit himself like an Eldar Farseer.

However any time he spends looking at one point / part of time/space is time not spent in the real world or looking at a different point/place/person at the same time - he is highly limited as its shown so far. Especially if he remains obessed with looking back in time.

IF (and its a big IF) the remaining kingdoms remain united under Bran (and there is no reason for them to do so). Also Bran does not rule over Sansa.

The other issue is that unlike Magna Carta (which itself was ignored by both sides and quickly repealed by the Church) there is no treaty here, no written legal or binding agreement for anyone to use later. The realm was carved up by those that remained in power (or had power) in the traditional way - in this case the victorious North took both the Ruling position over everyone else and itself became independant. Possibly the worst way to unite everyone.....

The game is just the same in any case even if they carry on with it, there is nothing about the good of the land etc, its who can influence/bribe/coerce/threaten whom.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/02 21:57:08


"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in gb
Princeps of the Emperor's Titan!






Even knowing what is going to happen, without being able to influence it, is a solid super power.

And knowing that means one can influence the events after.

Example.

Bran can only see A future. Despite what we saw on screen.

If the future is fixed? You will still know that. You’ll know it, and can directly or indirectly have your revenge.

Yet what we saw on screen doesn’t support a Fixed Future outcome. Whilst I’ll happily agree it’s poorly executed, there are hints. In the first episode of S9, Bran is sat out in the cold in Winterfell. Someone (Sam, I think?) asks ‘dude. Cold! Bran’s answer is ‘it’s where I have to be’. Mainly to greet Jamie ‘reason for Bran’s crippy legs’ Lannister.

Everything we see of Bran as the Three Eyed Raven is suggestive of a partially mutable future. Hence my very early comment (pages back to fair) that he simply guided events to the Least Worst Outcome.

Because whilst Bran can see multiple futures, he appears to solely focus on those he can directly influence. Which is a pretty smart use of time travel gubbins, when you think about it. Forces one down a specific set of outcomes.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives?Why not join us?

 
   
Made in gb
Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






UK

Well least worst for him it seems - oh look I am king.....

We have no reason to believe he is acting for anyone other than himself


"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







I figure part of the point of the small council scene at the end was. "The more things change, the more things stay the same."
   
Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






Southeastern PA, USA

The specifics of Bran's abilities, his storyline, and his path to the throne are giant head-scratchers and presumably will be until GRRM gives us his version.

So much for the showrunners 'spoiling' GRRM's ending. I think interest in the next two books is higher than ever now.

My World Eaters Showcase
View my Genestealer Cult! Article - Gallery - Blog
Best Appearance - GW Baltimore GT 2008, Colonial GT 2012

DQ:70+S++++G+M++++B++I+Pw40k90#+D++A+++/fWD66R++T(Ot)DM+++

 
   
Made in gb
Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






UK

 gorgon wrote:
The specifics of Bran's abilities, his storyline, and his path to the throne are giant head-scratchers and presumably will be until GRRM gives us his version.

So much for the showrunners 'spoiling' GRRM's ending. I think interest in the next two books is higher than ever now.


Not for me - the last two books were so bad I was pretty meh and given that this is also the ending for the books - that has destroyed any remaining interest.

Not that I believe they are or will even be written - he will continue to focus on other stuff and likely now the prequal series.

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in gb
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Devon, UK

I saw yesterday that, once again, he's announced his involvement in another creative project that'll likely interfere with is writing.

At this point I think it's fair to say that the procrastination is quite possibly deliberate, most likely because of fears (real or imagined) that he can't possibly deliver.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

No one wants to own the literary equivalent of Duke Nukem Forever.
   
Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






Southeastern PA, USA

 Azreal13 wrote:
I saw yesterday that, once again, he's announced his involvement in another creative project that'll likely interfere with is writing.

At this point I think it's fair to say that the procrastination is quite possibly deliberate, most likely because of fears (real or imagined) that he can't possibly deliver.


It's highly possible, yes. It's not like he's avoiding telling stories about that world. He's just not completing THIS story.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/04 04:42:14


My World Eaters Showcase
View my Genestealer Cult! Article - Gallery - Blog
Best Appearance - GW Baltimore GT 2008, Colonial GT 2012

DQ:70+S++++G+M++++B++I+Pw40k90#+D++A+++/fWD66R++T(Ot)DM+++

 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Chicago, Illinois

 Azreal13 wrote:
I saw yesterday that, once again, he's announced his involvement in another creative project that'll likely interfere with is writing.

At this point I think it's fair to say that the procrastination is quite possibly deliberate, most likely because of fears (real or imagined) that he can't possibly deliver.


Probably.
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

His main issue is that he's created way too many individual story lines to cohesively resolve them all. He's gotten a grand story together, but maybe too grand of a cast. His notes are probably a terrible jumble.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in gb
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'





Dorset, England

To be fair he isn't under any obligation to write any more books if he isn't enjoying it, he's probably got pots of money already!
   
Made in gb
Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






UK

 Kroem wrote:
To be fair he isn't under any obligation to write any more books if he isn't enjoying it, he's probably got pots of money already!

Did he not take a cheque and sign an agreement to write them with a publisher?

Or is he not being paid until they are delivered?

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Ouze wrote:
No one wants to own the literary equivalent of Duke Nukem Forever.


Funny that Duke Nukem 3D was released the same year as A Game of Thrones, and Duke Nukem Forever was released the same year as A Dance with Dragons.
   
 
Forum Index » Geek Media
Go to: