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If a character's IC status was removed if they were "bought with a retinue/bodyguard" or "attached to a squad" it sure would clean up the CC rules, clarify the roll of the IC and make them much more useful in HtH, it would also have the side effect of making it more atractive to play a command squad etc. with a big character.

What say you?

I say the concept works fine for both Tau (because their ICs suck in CC) and Hive Tyrants w/Tyrant Guard (since they're slow and you can only take 3 Tyrant Guard per unit).

If you applied the principle as a whole to all races, those that have access to absolutely wicked CC characters (Chaos, DE, some loyalist marines) You'd essentially have the same uber-characters but now with ten extra wounds to play with. I honestly don't feel that promoting more ways to make ICs powerful in CC is a positive change.

Yes, you are right, maybe so.  What if the option only worked when an IC was with the retinue purchased for it, and not for general IC unit joins?

(Death Company sure would be a monster.)

or is that still to much?

We were talking only about retinues, allowing any IC to join a unit and beome "hidden" would be even more disgusting.


Basically, the two armies that can do it now (Tau and Tyrants with Guard) are fine IMO. I think the way to handle it is in a codex by codex situation. For example, I think IG commanders would work fine as "hidden" inside their command squad, but the same would not be true of (especially) Chaos.

Perhaps if a rule similar to Torrent of Fire was applied to the Command Unit? Say, a SM Command Squad is in CC with 30 Ork Boyz. The Orks have choppas/sluggas, and get 60 attacks against a Commander and his 5-man retinue. Let's say, for simplicity's sake, the Orks inflict 30 hits. That's five per Marine in the 6-man unit. So, five hits must automatically be allocated to the Commander.

I know that it kinda screws up on the fact that the IC's Weapon Skill now is useless for defensive purposes, but if the orks can hit the Marine watching the commander's back on a 4+, then the commander's bodyguard is only going to help so much.

Maybe allocate attacks proportionally to begin with - that is, when a Torrent of Fire equivalent is in effect.What I mean is automatically resolve 10 of the 60 initial attacks against the commander, since that is 1/6th of the attacks against the 6-man unit.

May be useful, may be stupid. You decide.

CK

Posted By Augustus on 09/13/2006 2:05 PM

Yes, you are right, maybe so.  What if the option only worked when an IC was with the retinue purchased for it, and not for general IC unit joins?

(Death Company sure would be a monster.)

or is that still to much?

Isn't a Chaplain leading a death company leading his retinue?

Really I would just like to see Characters that are forced to start with a retinue not be IC's until they leave the retinue.

Hmm, I know Daemon Hunters HAVE this rule with the wording "UNLESS (my caps) accompanied by retinue...is an" IC - perhaps appropriate given the strength of their list. I think if this rule was universally applied, characters would probably need a points boost - except for IG. They're pointed fine. Maybe the cost of HI should go up to 35 or something though. Retinues would once more become popular, and characters would probably begin carrying power fists to exploit their newfound invisibility. Protective wargear would become virtually useless.